Affairs good for marriage

[Blindsidedagainalive]

If he chooses her carefully... and she's clean...no worries for STDs

 

 

Tell me how this is possible.

It you don't know Lizzie, which would utterly shock me, THERE IS NO WAY TO SAFELY HAVE SEX OUTSIDE A completely COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP.

NO WAY, NO HOW.

 

Especially a paid for hire whore....c'mon.

You call her an Escort....that is a prostitute.

 

She could have been ass reamed before by a customer with HIV.

 

Yes, of course, these prostitutes are screened DAILY and given certificates. ...right.

 

What about the diseases (like HIV), which do NOT show up on blood tests sometimes until 6 months after transmission.

 

My STBX caught the HPV strain 16, which gave her cancer cells on her cervix.

 

This was from an older married man...hardly someone you expect to catch things from.

And the CANCER causing HPV 16 and 18 cannot be prevented with a condom. It is caught from body contact, not fluid exchange.

[Pillow]

. Does anyone here buy - or even understand the gist of - her argument?

 

Hell no.

[doushenka]

I'm not certain why she's just not saying that she's a huge proponent for open or polyamorous relationships. It's manipulative to hide agenda behind psychology.

 

Hey, she's not one of ours! Poly people have rules, too, and violations thereof are called... cheating. Huh, how 'bout that? It's called ethical non-monogamy for a reason.

 

I don't know ANY emotionally healthy people that believe lying, which is part of cheating, is beneficial to a relationship.

 

Amen to that.

[dazzle22]

NO surprise this comes out of France...love the "poison is good for you" analogy..

It is a publicity ploy. Someone always does or says something outrageous to get themselves publicity. Like some "has been" celebrity that hasn't been in the news for twenty years blabbing to some tabloid saying , yep she's gay, or yep, her dad molested her...like we care?

[NoIDidn't]

This woman has no argument.

 

On the one hand, she says that the cheaters are profoundly monogamist. But then she says that the men that don't have affairs are "pathological monogamists".

 

LOL.

 

Wonder why SHE divorced 20 years ago? Hmmmmmm

[gopher]

I can't wait to hear about the husband who tells his wife that he wants to improve their marriage by having an affair....

[JamesM]

I can't wait to hear about the husband who tells his wife that he wants to improve their marriage by having an affair....

 

My guess is that affairs only help marriages when they are kept secret.

 

Think a minute and ignore the consequences of the affair (and yes, I know there are many consequences if the affair is discovered...no need to start a post on that) ....

 

If there is something that seems to be lacking to one person and yet the other person sees the marriage as perfect or good, then if the one who has a need gets it met elsewhere, the marriage should continue on as good.

 

Example....if I am hungry and my wife is not, then I stop and get something to eat. She wants to stay home while I want food. So I go out and get my meal, while she stays home and say, reads her book. She is happy and I am happy. If I am hungry and she is not...and she tells me that we will not stop to eat nor can I go out, then I am frustrated and angry, while she is still content.

 

So, if I need sex (which she says is MY need and not hers) and I get that need met elsewhere, then she is happy and I am happy.

 

Affairs...or I think rather...FWBs would be a help in this case.

 

If my wife needs extra listening and attention, then she finds a friend who fulfills that need. She is happy and I am happy.

 

The problem arises when the FWBs or the "friend" becomes more important than the marriage or partner.

 

Just some thoughts on this last day of the year.

[Lizzie60]

Good point JamesM (as usual)...

 

I see a parallel.. with porn and/or masturbation... if the W withhold sex (to punish or control or whatever) or simply because she has no libido.. if her H starts masturbating every day...and I doubt he will tell her every time... but most of the time.. when these women find out that their H are masturbating (alone)... oh my dog... the scandal... he takes care of himself.. without me.. he's a sex addict.. yadayadayada... he's the bad guy... she's the good wife... yeah right..

 

Not all truths are good to tell when in a relationship...

[Natureofbeast]

I think the author is full of crock, and self promoting her own low brow ideals.

 

JameM, I understand the scenarios. I even agree, if EMA relationships-EA & PA or combo of ( not to be confused with prostitution) were something you could say go purchase at the store or check out at a library, use it and then throw it out and or trade it in for a different volume. But we are talking human-beings here. In the end someone's going to get thrown out and or put back on the shelf.

[Lizzie60]

Then a good 'trusting' escort is the best way to go..

[OWoman]

The question is...can I keep the affair as only a way to fulfill the need for sex, or (most likely) will that affair also become an emotional fulfillment. If emotional fulfillment is obtained outside of my marriage and not from my wife, then it is almost a guarantee that we will drift apart.

 

So in the LT, affairs probably won't help. In the short term, they may.

 

I think this issue is key.

 

If the "problem" in the M is a short-term, passing one - say, the W is pregnant and has gone off sex as a result - and the frustrated spouse seeks a stop-gap solution elsewhere, meets those short-term needs in an immediate and stringless way, and then the need for that passes (say, the W recovers her libido) and it all becomes a distant memory - for the WS, that is: I'm assuming it's kept a secret from the BS.... then maybe.

 

However, how often are all of those conditions met?

 

Usually, a short-term problem in a M left untreated - or unacknowledged - within the M becomes a longer-term issue of one kind or another. Also, usually by the time that the frustrated partner is driven to look for relief elsewhere, it's already become a Big Issue, and even if the immediate need is met elsewhere, the resentment at the partner for not meeting it still remains - that the WS HAD to get the need met elsewhere because the BS didn't care for them enough to meet it themself... So it's pretty unlikely that the scenario would present as something minor, fleeting and easy to fix elsewhere.

 

Then, the AP... While there are OWs and OMs out there who want stringless sex - FWBs or purely PAs with no emotional aspect - it would seem from LS at least that these are significantly in the minority. I know I've had a number of As like that, and I've walked away from them when I've been done, but even I've found that there's no guarantee that starting out like that will protect you from something unexpected happening in the course of the A. Hence my now being M... (And no, a professional is no guarantee against "feelings" either. I know of several who've landed up getting emotionally entangled with former clients. And, same with FWBs. People change!)

 

But then, back to James's point - the WS themselves is at risk. Most frustrated partners over time start to feel the start of some emotional disconnect from their withholding partners - after all, the person they love is denying them something that they've confessed is very important to them, demonstrating (to their minds) insufficient love and caring. And so, by the time they're driven to seek relief elsewhere, they're feeling just a little resentful... Add to that the volatility of a passionate, intimate situation, and chances are more than body fluids will be exchanged. Somewhere along the line, pillow talk will venture into the realm of emotional connection, since guys who miss sex enough to seek it elsewhere are typically not guys who can compartmentalise very successfully (else why would they spend so long wishing that THEIR SPOUSES would meet their unmet needs, rather than stepping out immediately?) and so, sooner or later, lines start to blur. I can't tell you how many times I've lived through this - APs I thought were in good, strong Ms, that I was just having some light fun with, who fell hard and heavily and deeply, landing up leaving their Ms even after I'd dumped them for breach of agreement (since that was NOT what I wanted...) because of compartmentalisation failure. It's a risky business.

 

But then, assuming even all of those factors DO align, and you get some frustrated spouse with a short-term need met by an uninterested convenient AP, with which the frustrated spouse has a dispassionate and rather clinical exchange of body fluids as contracted during a short-lived and completely detached A.... what guarantee is there that the BS will never find out? Most BSs would, I'm assuming, not share the WS's view of the therapeutic value of the intervention, even years down the track, should they find out... That's adding another level of risk, and a potential level of stress (ensuring that the secret stays hidden, over time) to a M, or at least to at least one partner of a M.

 

Logically, I'm not seeing how this adds up.

 

If the author were like me, sharing my rather jaded views about the institution of M, then her argument would make a little more sense to me. But she's not arguing against M (or at least, in the report I read, she didn't appear to be). She's saying that As can be good for M - which, unless you take "good" to mean "allows them to continue, irrespective of quality", doesn't really make that much sense to me.

 

Is a "good" M one that lasts decades - or one in which both partners feel fulfilled, happy and able to self-actualise to their greatest potential?

 

Is a "good" M one that maunders along pragmatically, doing a good enough job of raising kids and providing economic stability for the household unit - or one in which both partners are fully honest with each other, respectful of each other, and loving and passionate with each other, balancing their own and their partner's needs so that neither feels frustrated or unfulfilled on a longer-term basis?

 

Is a "good" M a working partnership that presents an efficient and well-functioning front to outsiders - or one in which both partners feel themselves completely acknowledged, accepted and loved?

 

Perhaps I just have the wrong view of M...

[SoleMate]

You can't publish a newspaper article about "dog bites man" - it's true, but just too common and boring.

 

You can't publish a book claiming that affairs hurt marriages - it's true, but just too common and boring.

 

To see your words in print, you need some kind of crazy unexpected angle.

[acac2323]

I dont agree that A are good for a marriage...Perhaps A are a better diet program as most lose their appetite for weeks/months...

[dprtman09]

With all your respect fellow LSers.. I have not read this article.. but she's not the only 'therapist' that has written on this subject..

 

I have said it before.. I am convinced that, in some cases.. As are good for the marriage.. as James' examples.. but no commitment has to be the 'rule'.. on either side... therefore an escort is the best solution.. IMO... (always the same woman)... there is no commitment.. it is extremely safe for the MM (she won't kiss and tell)... If he chooses her carefully... and she's clean...no worries for STDs...

 

He won't have to nag and beg for sex at home.... he will be a better husband and father.. everyone will be happier..

 

OH, ye of little faith! In a marriage, there are three parties: a man, a woman, and the marriage. The man and woman give life to the marriage and the the marriage takes on a life of its own. Because a man and a woman can put their hands on each other, the marriage is neglected. We don't deal with what we can't sense. So, what you seem to be leaning on here is this: it's OK for a man and a woman to be together as a business relationship, but the marriage can die if it works for them. To each their own. If two people can't have anything that's exclusive to them, then why have marriage? Let's all just try to be everything to everyone. Oh, that's why everyone is so stressed today and many have no ability to commit. I am not shocked that such a point of view exists. Chaos is easy, order has to be worked at.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know at least one poster here has argued this for a long time, but now France's leading female psychologist has published a book claiming that As are a sign of a healthy M.

 

 

ya, and Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. and..????

[RedDevil66]

Yes and LS is filled with happily cheated on spouses with great marriages.

 

I can see the thread now "Hubby had an affair for a year and my marriage is GREAT"

 

It cost us $5000 in therapy, me moving out, us hurting the kids, but after 3 yrs and all this heartache and work, our marriage is WONDERFUL. The snooping gets really exhausting and I can't let him out of my site, but that's what makes the marriage so much better since now I get to spend more time with him"

 

ugh x 1000000000000000!

 

Qu'elle surprise a le cheche la persone!

[norajane]

Example....if I am hungry and my wife is not, then I stop and get something to eat. She wants to stay home while I want food. So I go out and get my meal, while she stays home and say, reads her book. She is happy and I am happy. If I am hungry and she is not...and she tells me that we will not stop to eat nor can I go out, then I am frustrated and angry, while she is still content.

 

This example does not require lying, lying by omission, deception, manipulation, secrecy, health risks, or the mental and emotional distance that develops between a couple in a marriage where lying, lying by omission, deception, manipulation, secrecy or health risks are employed in order for one to have extramarital sex.

[anne1707]

Yes and LS is filled with happily cheated on spouses with great marriages.

 

I can see the thread now "Hubby had an affair for a year and my marriage is GREAT"

 

It cost us $5000 in therapy, me moving out, us hurting the kids, but after 3 yrs and all this heartache and work, our marriage is WONDERFUL. The snooping gets really exhausting and I can't let him out of my site, but that's what makes the marriage so much better since now I get to spend more time with him"

 

ugh x 1000000000000000!

 

Qu'elle surprise a le cheche la persone!

 

 

Whilst I totally agree that affairs are destructive and should not happen, I do not 100% agree with the above post.

 

It is 18 months since d-day following my affair and I can honestly say that my H and I are happy and that our marriage is the best it has been for years.

 

Is it as good as it was at the start? It's not as simple as that. Things have obviously changed - there has been too much pain for it not to affect us. However we are more open and honest with each other than we have ever been and we are also more able to deal with any potential problems right at the start rather than let them bubble away at the surface. We both make so much more effort for us than we used to.

 

I should also add that I do not take any of this for granted and that I also believe that we are still in recovery (we can have our off moments but we recognise those and talk if we want to or understand if we just need to be quiet). A thread on LS a couple of weeks sparked a conversation between my H and I which led me to asking him a direct question - had he forgiven me? I expected the answer to be no - why on earth should he have forgiven me so soon. But he was quite clear - yes, he has forgiven me. And to be honest, I feel as if he has too.

 

Does he snoop? No! He never did even immediately after d-day. He knew I was being completely honest and I also made a point of telling him my whereabouts, leaving my phone where he could see it etc and he has always known all my passwords. He started taking me too and from work (I still work with the ex-OM ) which helped and now this is something we both enjoy as we like this time together. He is also perfectly happy in letting me out of his sight.

 

It is possible for a marriage to recover from an affair and for that marriage to be happy but it takes a lot of work from both husband and wife. But it can be done and I know that there are others who post on LS who have also managed to recover and be happy together.

[JamesM]

This example does not require lying, lying by omission, deception, manipulation, secrecy, health risks, or the mental and emotional distance that develops between a couple in a marriage where lying, lying by omission, deception, manipulation, secrecy or health risks are employed in order for one to have extramarital sex.

 

It took awhile. I expected someone to comment on this sooner.

 

You are right. As in all analogies, this one is not perfect either.

 

But using sex as the example again, when it is eliminated from the marriage by one side, then already manipulation, lying, and deception is being used. When someone chooses to cheat, then of course, he or she is already using deception by definition.

 

My point was that if the husband is now happy and content and the wife is still happy and content, then the affair (or rather FWB in this example) serves the purpose of keeping the marriage together. There is definitely something missing, but it is less noticeable when the one who misses sex no longer feels as if he is being manipulated and is powerless...because he now has it.

 

No question the marriage has problems, but if the man can keep the sexual partner as simply that then perhaps the marriage can remain as happy as possible under the given circumstances.

[RedDevil66]

Whilst I totally agree that affairs are destructive and should not happen, I do not 100% agree with the above post.

 

It is 18 months since d-day following my affair and I can honestly say that my H and I are happy and that our marriage is the best it has been for years.

 

Is it as good as it was at the start? It's not as simple as that. Things have obviously changed - there has been too much pain for it not to affect us. However we are more open and honest with each other than we have ever been and we are also more able to deal with any potential problems right at the start rather than let them bubble away at the surface. We both make so much more effort for us than we used to.

 

I should also add that I do not take any of this for granted and that I also believe that we are still in recovery (we can have our off moments but we recognise those and talk if we want to or understand if we just need to be quiet). A thread on LS a couple of weeks sparked a conversation between my H and I which led me to asking him a direct question - had he forgiven me? I expected the answer to be no - why on earth should he have forgiven me so soon. But he was quite clear - yes, he has forgiven me. And to be honest, I feel as if he has too.

 

Does he snoop? No! He never did even immediately after d-day. He knew I was being completely honest and I also made a point of telling him my whereabouts, leaving my phone where he could see it etc and he has always known all my passwords. He started taking me too and from work (I still work with the ex-OM ) which helped and now this is something we both enjoy as we like this time together. He is also perfectly happy in letting me out of his sight.

 

It is possible for a marriage to recover from an affair and for that marriage to be happy but it takes a lot of work from both husband and wife. But it can be done and I know that there are others who post on LS who have also managed to recover and be happy together.

 

No one ever fully recovers from an affair. It's easier for you since you were the one who betrayed, but I am sure your husband will struggle with this for a very long time.

 

He will always wonder which in no way makes for a healthy union

 

I agree, couples can recover from an affair, but the dynamics change. Unless there is a total spiritual turn around in both people, a union will not recover.

 

It's also maybe 5% of unions that do recover.

[anne1707]

I would not dare to say that my H never thinks about what has happened and that he feels no pain anymore. I did make a point of saying that we are still in recovery too. However I also feel pain and remorse - thankfully I am moving away from the feelings of guilt as that would be too negative an emotion to work on our marriage from.

 

But I can honestly say from discussing this subject with my H, that he has no regrets about choosing to give me a chance, that he has forgiven me and that he is happy. In spite of what you might think, we do have a healthy and happy marriage. It is different to how it used to be before but to be honest, don't all long term relationships change over time even if there is no affair. What matters is how you work on that change together and that is what we have done.

[angie2443]

No one ever fully recovers from an affair. It's easier for you since you were the one who betrayed, but I am sure your husband will struggle with this for a very long time.

 

He will always wonder which in no way makes for a healthy union

 

I agree, couples can recover from an affair, but the dynamics change. Unless there is a total spiritual turn around in both people, a union will not recover.

 

It's also maybe 5% of unions that do recover.

 

This is true.

[grogster]

Marriages are built on key affectional relationships, which themselves are built on trust, respect, commitment and desire. An affair, whether discovered or not, erodes these affectional layers.

 

At best, an affair can act as a "bad marriage" safety valve over the short term. In the long run, however, the marriage is over.

 

Affairs blast-furnace affectional relationships, leaving the marriage incinerated.

[eeyore1981]

Yes and LS is filled with happily cheated on spouses with great marriages.

 

I can see the thread now "Hubby had an affair for a year and my marriage is GREAT"

 

It cost us $5000 in therapy, me moving out, us hurting the kids, but after 3 yrs and all this heartache and work, our marriage is WONDERFUL. The snooping gets really exhausting and I can't let him out of my site, but that's what makes the marriage so much better since now I get to spend more time with him"

 

ugh x 1000000000000000!

 

Qu'elle surprise a le cheche la persone!

 

There is actually a book out there titled something like "My Husband's Affair is the Best Thing that Happened to Our Marriage." Honestly, I found the title offensive. Also, while I haven't read the book, I saw the author giving an interview where she discusses, among other things, her daughter's suicide attempt in the aftermath of the affair discovery. This comes across as very disturbing to me.

[Snowflower]

There is actually a book out there titled something like "My Husband's Affair is the Best Thing that Happened to Our Marriage." Honestly, I found the title offensive. Also, while I haven't read the book, I saw the author giving an interview where she discusses, among other things, her daughter's suicide attempt in the aftermath of the affair discovery. This comes across as very disturbing to me.

 

I am familiar with the book although I think the title is slightly different..."My Husband's Affair is the Best Thing That Happened To Me" or something like that.

 

I picked it up to read after my d-day but found it not relevant to my situation. It was more about the author's journey of self-discovery after she found about her H's affair. I didn't read the entire book because it wasn't what I wanted at that point; but I had hoped the author would take about the recovery of her marriage more than she did.