Why can't dumpers marry other dumpers?

[Fitness Dude]

I'm being 100% dead serious here. Another members posts and the countless new "My H or W Left Me" threads that stream in hourly made me realize something.

 

Let me point out the obvious first.

 

1. Marriage is a commitment, and choice - your vow to your SO, that no matter what the reason you picked them, was because you know there will be hard times ahead but you're willing to see it through.

 

2. How is it that the dumper always seems to fall into the "grass is always greener" trap? I mean, seriously do they not understand that the exact same thing is bound to happen to them again and again, if they continually make and break the commitment of my first point?

 

3. Maybe dumpers just aren't that bright, and are so nearsighted that they're broken. They can't see past the point where marriage becomes routine and do something to change it? I'm not tryig to be funny. I sincerely think that people who commit to marriage only to turn away from it so easily the first time the feelings wane have a deficiency in their "I-give-a-sh$T" section of their brain.

 

4. Lastly, why does it seem that there is always one person who is totally committed to the relationship (who comes here to vent, present company included) and they (we) always seem to be fixed up with those who have the predisposition of doing this dumping crap?

 

Why can't committed people marry other committed people? What's wrong with us?

 

If Darwin was here I would buy him a six pack and tell him to wrap his brain around THIS problem. Maybe there's a larger plan at play here, that we're not picking up on. (OK, that WAS a joke, but all the crap above it was serious).

[soul searching]

Hey Fitness Dude - I couldn't agree more. The COMMITMENT part of marriage seems to be missing for some, my stbx included. We had many, many conversations early in our 6.5 yr marriage about both of us knowing that "marriage is going to take work," but when it comes down to it he doesn't have it in him to stick around. Says I'm not worth it to him.

 

I feel totally duped... all of the stuff he said he believed about marriage and commitment were false. When the going gets tough, the weak get going and the rest of us have to pick up the pieces.

 

#1,3,4 couldn't be more right-on. I would be in on that six pack with Freud idea too. Maybe it would help...

Actually, my counselor recommended a book to me that is sort of shedding some light on this very phenomenon. It's about how people who are "love addicts" become attracted to "avoidance addicts." The avoidance addicts always find it easier to walk than to work it out. And you are right, they are doomed to repeat the same patterns in the next relationship...

[happyrexmanningday]

Amen. I seriously have wondered this as well. But I think some do know they are broken. At least my husband did. He even admitted that he knew it but it was easier for him to leave because he didn't have to work on himself. He's all about avoidance behavior...

[SimplyBeingLoved]

I'm being 100% dead serious here. Another members posts and the countless new "My H or W Left Me" threads that stream in hourly made me realize something.

 

Let me point out the obvious first.

 

3. Maybe dumpers just aren't that bright, and are so nearsighted that they're broken. They can't see past the point where marriage becomes routine and do something to change it? I'm not tryig to be funny. I sincerely think that people who commit to marriage only to turn away from it so easily the first time the feelings wane have a deficiency in their "I-give-a-sh$T" section of their brain.

How do you know the dumpers are turning away from it so easily? A lot of dumpers take years and years and agonizing over their decision to finally get to the point of "dumping." It just LOOKS like they are walking away easily, but chances are they've been processing it for much longer than the dumpee.

 

4. Why can't committed people marry other committed people? What's wrong with us?

They can and do; they're just not posting here, 'cause they're happily committed.

[LisaUk]

How do you know the dumpers are turning away from it so easily? A lot of dumpers take years and years and agonizing over their decision to finally get to the point of "dumping." It just LOOKS like they are walking away easily, but chances are they've been processing it for much longer than the dumpee.

 

 

B/c the essence of commitment means communicating your unhappiness and working on the relationship, accepting that marriage isn't always a bed or roses, taking the rough and working on it, with the smooth.

 

Do you think that those of us that are dumped were always completely happy with our exes? That we NEVER had a problem with them or the relationship or that we we were totally blissfully happy all the time? I can tell you that there were times that I was dreadfully unhappy with my ex and even some occasions when I thought about leaving. But you know what I did? I talked to him about it, I did what I could to work on the problems with him, that's why it's called commitment ie continuing to do something when the feeling that made you do it in the first place has gone. Remembering why you were there in the first place and working to get back to a happier place.

 

To think that you will always be 100% happy and your relationship will be 100% perfect is delusional. Are you always happy at work? Do your children always make you feel 100% happy? Do you always feel 100% happy with everything your parents do? Do you just walk from them? A spouse is family, not something you can just change if you feel like it.

 

I'm not talking about those who leave with love here. Those who leave having expressed their concerns and feelings for a long time, having worked at it and having gone through MC. I'm also not getting at you personally Simplybeingloved. I'm talking about the ones who just up and leave without ever having expressed anything. If a dumper has been agonizing over the decision to leave for years, then why haven't they communicated it? B/c they are incapable of commitment, hard work and conflict resolution. There also very good at re-writting the marital history to say they have been agonizing over it for years in order to justify their own desires and wants and the leaving. If they really have been agonizing over it for years and not voicing it, then, IMHO, they are very stupid, b/c firstly they expect life to give them something without working for it and secondly they have not only wasted the dumpees life but they have wasted their own as well. These types of people, like the OP said, are doomed to continue to repeat the same behaviours and patterns in the next relationship.

 

OP you have a good point. Maybe you should set up a dating website only open to those who have been left? You could make a fortune!

[nobmagnet]

i was thinking the very same thing lisa!!!!!!!!!

 

dating site for us dumpees that worked so hard to retain our relationship only to have it stumped on. My ex said he was miserable for years. Said it was all my fault. HELLO why the f*ck didnt you tell me???? Oh yes i forgot................its all about you right???

 

what would it be called lisa? ..............dumpees looking for dumpees???? hahah

 

good thread x

[imagine]

I have been on these boards three years. One basic premise is that there is no one that is perfect. Anyone can be exposed to adultery.

 

I have learned about some of the traps from this site. Eg: I am very cautious NOT to engage in long private chats on this site- as you have guessed, there are a lot of needy folk on this site.

 

I was reading about two BS's that married (both went through a horrible divorce) and one is already cheating.

 

My conclusion: Dumper or Dumpee - we all have potential to be these!

 

Guard your soul...

[Fitness Dude]

Good, I'm not the only one who thinks about this stuff. Thank you Lisa for your poignant post.

 

You see, I believe in divorce. I believe there comes a time when two people just fall out of love and as hard as they work to find it again, it just can't happen. They've exhausted all possibilities and even though maybe one is still willing to try to work through it, both agree it's time to move on. My W wouldn't even CONSIDER going to a MC! Just mentioning it made her

 

SIDENOTE: Now, if there is abuse of any kind, obviously this would preclude any reconciliation as well - but that's not what I'm talking about here.

 

These *&^% dumpers don't care. My W kept these feelings inside for almost a year before telling me about them. (which, BTW, I think is BS based on how she acted up until the point when she met the OM, which is EXACTLY the same time when all the arguments began about not being happy happened). She never expressed any dissatisfaction with our marriage up until that point (when she met the OM).

 

Hey, I've been in situations that I could have acted on advances by other women during our time together both married time and exclusive dating (engagement) time. However, I would never even allow myself to go to that place in my mind. No matter what. I made a vow, in front of her, our families and friend and I believed in that vow. Unfortunately, I believed in her vows too - which turned out to be foolhearty. I will not make that mistake again. Ever!

 

That's the difference there are people who will "stick it out" and deal with the conflicting feelings and work on the marriage and others who just "cut and run" and don't want to look back - because they're stupid enough to think that the grass is ALWAYS greener over there.

 

Dumpers need not apply.

[phineas]

Fitness - your situation sounds exactly like mine. My wife started online dateing when our son was about 3 - 4 months old, a little over a yr into the marriage.

 

I didn't know this then. I thought the affair was recent.

 

I thought "yeah we've been argueing on & off for a few yrs" ect.

I thought i was a bad husband. ect.

 

I put together a time line using e-mails, phone bills, & the OM's parents & realized the argueing started when she met OM also.

 

her only complaint to me before was that I didn't spend enough time with her. Well, I was working two jobs to pay off the wedding, drs. bills & mortgage when she went on materinty leave & got paid next to nothing.

 

What was I supposed to do?

Not work & cuddle with her on the couch until they evicted us or turned off the lights?

 

She sure didn't complain about the money I made.

But she complained I only spent two nights a week with her.

I was working every day & most evenings.

It wasn't permanent & she knew this.

 

I see now she is a woman that needs CONSTANT attention.

It didn't see that before because there wern't any ditractions before that made it so apparant.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

B/c the essence of commitment means communicating your unhappiness and working on the relationship, accepting that marriage isn't always a bed or roses, taking the rough and working on it, with the smooth.

 

Well while I agree it's very nice to believe that commitment "should" be like this or "should" be like that, the fact is, there is no one universal rule, there is no one religion or oversight committee, so in a sense, it's pointless to exclaim there is any agreement about marriage that people must abide by, because in reality, there are no rules.

 

I don't believe in ideals, I believe in consequences. There is a difference. Saying "she shouldn't have left him because she made a commitment," or "marriage is supposed to be like XYZ" -- those statements are meaningless and moot. It is what it is. Marriage, in itself, is not a commitment. Marriage is not really anything but a set of legalities.

 

The real point is that marriage is a "container" for an agreement that we have already made with another person. And the agreement we make with the other person... is unique. Every agreement is different, even if they all fall under the seemingly cookie-cutter umbrella institution of marriage.

 

The thing about agreements is that both people have to "agree" for an agreement to be in place. But sometimes we change our minds. Or we realize that what we thought they were agreeing to, is not what the other person was agreeing to.

 

The real agreements are usually implicit, hidden and unstated. They are normally NOT verbalized and there are many facets to the real agreements in place. The standard "in sickness and health, till death do us part" are NOT the real agreements taking place in a marriage. In fact, I think if we actually all verbalized our agreements, had them completely out in the open, many of us would be shocked. "You thought we would... what??? Uh, hell no..."

 

But can take many years for the full nature of the agreements to reveal themselves... and... the other stickler is.. people change. They change their minds. They don't want the agreement any more as it originally, implicitly stood. They may not even agree on how to disagree.

 

People do all sorts of things, many, many things we will not approve of, and there is no real security in marriage, or many other institutions of society that we desperately cling to. The only real security can come from your self, and/or God if you believe in a higher power.

 

People are going to do what they're going to do and there's nothing we can do to stop them. In a sense, that gives us great freedom, however. Understanding this, we can let go. We don't choose our actions based on the hope that others might change and become the person we want or need them to be. We can only change ourselves.

[LisaUk]

Well while I agree it's very nice to believe that commitment "should" be like this or "should" be like that, the fact is, there is no one universal rule, there is no one religion or oversight committee, so in a sense, it's pointless to exclaim there is any agreement about marriage that people must abide by, because in reality, there are no rules.

 

I don't believe in ideals, I believe in consequences. There is a difference. Saying "she shouldn't have left him because she made a commitment," or "marriage is supposed to be like XYZ" -- those statements are meaningless and moot. It is what it is. Marriage, in itself, is not a commitment. Marriage is not really anything but a set of legalities.

 

The real point is that marriage is a "container" for an agreement that we have already made with another person. And the agreement we make with the other person... is unique. Every agreement is different, even if they all fall under the seemingly cookie-cutter umbrella institution of marriage.

 

The thing about agreements is that both people have to "agree" for an agreement to be in place. But sometimes we change our minds. Or we realize that what we thought they were agreeing to, is not what the other person was agreeing to.

 

The real agreements are usually implicit, hidden and unstated. They are normally NOT verbalized and there are many facets to the real agreements in place. The standard "in sickness and health, till death do us part" are NOT the real agreements taking place in a marriage. In fact, I think if we actually all verbalized our agreements, had them completely out in the open, many of us would be shocked. "You thought we would... what??? Uh, hell no..."

 

But can take many years for the full nature of the agreements to reveal themselves... and... the other stickler is.. people change. They change their minds. They don't want the agreement any more as it originally, implicitly stood. They may not even agree on how to disagree.

 

People do all sorts of things, many, many things we will not approve of, and there is no real security in marriage, or many other institutions of society that we desperately cling to. The only real security can come from your self, and/or God if you believe in a higher power.

 

People are going to do what they're going to do and there's nothing we can do to stop them. In a sense, that gives us great freedom, however. Understanding this, we can let go. We don't choose our actions based on the hope that others might change and become the person we want or need them to be. We can only change ourselves.

 

I had orginally written a whole response to your post above, but then I thought really what is the point in trying to offer an adulterer a different perspective?

Edited January 6, 2010 by LisaUk

[El Ben]

Well while I agree it's very nice to believe that commitment "should" be like this or "should" be like that, the fact is, there is no one universal rule, there is no one religion or oversight committee, so in a sense, it's pointless to exclaim there is any agreement about marriage that people must abide by, because in reality, there are no rules.

 

I don't believe in ideals, I believe in consequences. There is a difference. Saying "she shouldn't have left him because she made a commitment," or "marriage is supposed to be like XYZ" -- those statements are meaningless and moot. It is what it is. Marriage, in itself, is not a commitment. Marriage is not really anything but a set of legalities.

 

The real point is that marriage is a "container" for an agreement that we have already made with another person. And the agreement we make with the other person... is unique. Every agreement is different, even if they all fall under the seemingly cookie-cutter umbrella institution of marriage.

 

The thing about agreements is that both people have to "agree" for an agreement to be in place. But sometimes we change our minds. Or we realize that what we thought they were agreeing to, is not what the other person was agreeing to.

 

The real agreements are usually implicit, hidden and unstated. They are normally NOT verbalized and there are many facets to the real agreements in place. The standard "in sickness and health, till death do us part" are NOT the real agreements taking place in a marriage. In fact, I think if we actually all verbalized our agreements, had them completely out in the open, many of us would be shocked. "You thought we would... what??? Uh, hell no..."

 

But can take many years for the full nature of the agreements to reveal themselves... and... the other stickler is.. people change. They change their minds. They don't want the agreement any more as it originally, implicitly stood. They may not even agree on how to disagree.

 

People do all sorts of things, many, many things we will not approve of, and there is no real security in marriage, or many other institutions of society that we desperately cling to. The only real security can come from your self, and/or God if you believe in a higher power.

 

People are going to do what they're going to do and there's nothing we can do to stop them. In a sense, that gives us great freedom, however. Understanding this, we can let go. We don't choose our actions based on the hope that others might change and become the person we want or need them to be. We can only change ourselves.

 

 

I totally agree with this point of view. People are different, people change, people move on. Does it hurt? Absolutely.

 

I believe the fact that someone doesn't love you as much as you want to be loved doesn't mean they don't love you as much as they are able.

[El Ben]

I had orginally written a whole response to your post above, but then I thought really what is the point in trying to offer an adulterer a different perspective?

 

LisaUK . Not good.

[LisaUk]

LisaUK . Not good.

 

How dare you? I have as much right to my opinion as you do yours.

[El Ben]

How dare you? I have as much right to my opinion as you do yours.

 

Aha. Very true. So state your opinion. But if all you have to say is to accuse someone else of being an "adulterer"... c'mon.

 

I also had typed out a somewhat lengthier response to your response but chose not to post it afterall.

[LisaUk]

LisaUK . Not good.

 

Arr, I see you want to keep your self justifications in tact so you don't like it when someone else points out that cheaters self jusitify, now it makes sense!

 

El Bens post below from the infedility forum November, click on his backthreads-

Hmm. Mine was a loveless marriage. Well, loveless from my side. I liked her, she was a close friend, and then she got pregnant. I got carried away with the excitement of being a father, mentoring a child. 18 months (and another child) later, I realised I didn't lover her, not one bit. I told her this, and she argued, cried and begged. I folded. Then I went out one night and got pulled. Two weeks later, I told her again. Same emotional blackmail cycle. I folded again. By this time, I knew it had to end. I had become bitter, irritable and extremely miserable. So I told broke it gently: I needed to sort myself out. I resisted the tears and the begging, though as a friend it was ripping me apart. She finally moved out.

 

I had to stay in touch because of the kids - I visited (and still visit) almost everyday after work. It hurt like hell to see her suffering, and know I was the cause. Then she moved across the ocean with her parents. I visited 4 times in that year, and there was a lot of skyping with the boys, before I moved across to be close to the boys. She was in a much better state.

 

She doesn't know about the cheating, and I don't intend to tell her. She has confidence issues, and I don't see what good it will do to her. I'll be taking the secrets to the grave.

[LisaUk]

Aha. Very true. So state your opinion. But if all you have to say is to accuse someone else of being an "adulterer"... c'mon.

 

I also had typed out a somewhat lengthier response to your response but chose not to post it afterall.

 

Actually my point was that I would be wasting my time offering a different perspective to an adulterer because if someone really beleives it's OK to cheat on someone they have spent a great deal of time self justifying that behaviour in order to avoid cognitive dissonance which is uncomfortable. Therefore what is the point in me wasing my time and energy trying to offer a different perspective, when they are simply not open to it? B/c to be open to it would involve them having to reassess there beiliefs about themself? Kind of like the way you jumped down my throat for saying it b/c you are one also, you saw it as personal attack on yourself. Maybe the question you should ask yourself why you feel the need to defend yourself if you really beleive what you did is ok? But we both know you will never do that.

[El Ben]

Lisa, nobody thinks it's OK to cheat. Not on this forum. The fact that people stay on this forum (separation and divorce) is proof that they believe that something is broken somewhere, and they are looking for ways to fix it.

 

I read the previous post, I didn't see justification for adultery there, what I saw was possibly a justification for a break up of marriage.

 

Lisa - Sorry you felt I jumped down your throat - I actually considered my post to be humorous, and was just trying to get you to chill out and ease off.

 

In my opinion, if there has been any "jumping down throats" in these threads, it's mainly been from you. You're the one here who is absolutely refusing to accept any point of view, any vision of relationships that doesn't match yours.

Edited January 6, 2010 by El Ben

[LisaUk]

Lisa, nobody thinks it's OK to cheat. Not on this forum. The fact that people stay on this forum (separation and divorce) is proof that they believe that something is broken somewhere, and they are looking for ways to fix it.

 

I read the previous post, I didn't see justification for adultery there, what I saw was possibly a justification for a break up of marriage.

 

Lisa - Sorry you felt I jumped down your throat - I actually considered my post to be humorous, and was just trying to get you to chill out and ease off.

 

In my opinion, if there has been any "jumping down throats" in these threads, it's mainly been from you.

 

When someone tells me I am "not good" for expressing an opinion then yes, I will defend myself. I didn't find your post remotely humourous.

 

I'm not going to say any more about the post you refer to b/c we are of differing opinions about what is morally right/wrong in how to treat another human being, backed up by the way you treated your wife and the fact that you think what you did to her and your children was justified b/c you changed your mind and never loved her (are you for real?), so I think further discussion is pointless. If you were truely here looking to find answers and to better yourself, you would open to the possibility that maybe what you did to your wife was your doing, your choice and how you choose to deal with that was also your choice and in the process you caused another human being a huge amount of pain, rather than just trying to justify what you did as your only option. You had options.

Edited January 6, 2010 by LisaUk

[trippi1432]

I think that dumpers do marry dumpers in a lot of cases....does it always work out...maybe/maybe not. I know in my case, my STBXH will most likely marry his OW...he's already informed me that since I dropped him from my benefits, he will get her to add him to hers (cohabitation laws).

 

Yeah, that was most likely a jab, but he makes it pretty clear that he was not having an affair with her until after we split up...yet, he was bedding down with her a week after she kicked her husband out of the house and just two weeks after telling me he wanted to work on the marriage. I really do think that this fact is the reason he told me that he "couldn't do that TO HER" when I offered him the ultimatum of working on our marriage and leaving her. She, evidently, sacrificed her 2nd marriage for him. I guess it's "love". (sarcasm)

 

I feel that one of the worst things about cheaters is that they can't be honest with you, but they also can't be honest with themselves. I think that some are habitual cheaters...once they have what they want, they start looking for something else. In some cases, the cheater will blame the entire affair on you, as in my case. My STBXH claimed that he thought I was dating and had a boyfriend which is why he started seeing the OW, about 5 weeks after he left...so, it is all my fault. Today, I take that for what it really is....BS.

[El Ben]

When someone tells me I am "not good" for expressing an opinion then yes, I will defend myself. I didn't find your post remotely humourous.

 

I'm not going to say any more about the post you refer to b/c we are of differing opinions about what is morally right/wrong in how to treat another human being, backed up by the way you treated your wife and the fact that you think what you did to her and your children was justified b/c you changed your mind and never loved her (are you for real?), so I think further discussion is pointless.

 

 

You're kidding. You really are. You're seeing things that don't exist and ignoring the real things that do exist. Did you even read my last post, the one I quoted? Where/how does that show that I thought cheating on my wife was "right"?

 

I never said you were not good, I was referring to your post, and to be perfectly honest, I did that mainly because earlier on you created a thread about how you felt you were overbearing and opinionated, and asked how you could change. And it's interesting that the moment I questioned your own post in a manner much less aggressive than the way you questioned the previous post, you went into a huff.

 

Do I have problems? Sure I do. I believe everybody has problems.

 

One more thing - My ex and I currently live together with the kids and are attending counselling, trying to find out whether or not this can work. It's always good to hear the entire story before throwing accusations.

[Fitness Dude]

So shoot me. Marriage is a CHOICE and not always about love. Oh no - I said it! As long as you have friendship as a foundation I believe the marriage should continue with help - from MC, friends and family, etc.

 

Love is something that changes over time and never really stops. One thing is for sure, love isn't the same in year 5 as it was in year 1, that's reality. I think the thing about cheaters is that they didn't really think the commitment side of the equation through enough prior to marriage. They were too stupid to realize that it wasn't going to be a walk in the park every day, or year for that matter.

 

The CHOICE of marriage is that of resolve - it's saying "I will be by your side through thick and thin, at all costs, and when times are tough, I will try harder and give it EVERY chance there is to make it right". It's promising that if you mind strays to thoughts of infidelity, that you will steer it back quickly before it's problematic. I've seen it time and time again in marriages of my friends - some have stayed the course and kept their promises, some haven't.

 

You know what, the ones that didn't - I can honestly say those individuals just aren't as bright. They lack some basic common sense and I would consider them less intelligent, quite frankly. I'm saying this in general in comparison to the couples who have made it through tough times.

 

Just my .02

[trippi1432]

So shoot me. Marriage is a CHOICE and not always about love. Oh no - I said it! As long as you have friendship as a foundation I believe the marriage should continue with help - from MC, friends and family, etc.

 

Love is something that changes over time and never really stops. One thing is for sure, love isn't the same in year 5 as it was in year 1, that's reality. I think the thing about cheaters is that they didn't really think the commitment side of the equation through enough prior to marriage. They were too stupid to realize that it wasn't going to be a walk in the park every day, or year for that matter.

 

The CHOICE of marriage is that of resolve - it's saying "I will be by your side through thick and thin, at all costs, and when times are tough, I will try harder and give it EVERY chance there is to make it right". It's promising that if you mind strays to thoughts of infidelity, that you will steer it back quickly before it's problematic. I've seen it time and time again in marriages of my friends - some have stayed the course and kept their promises, some haven't.

 

You know what, the ones that didn't - I can honestly say those individuals just aren't as bright. They lack some basic common sense and I would consider them less intelligent, quite frankly. I'm saying this in general in comparison to the couples who have made it through tough times.

 

Just my .02

 

Very good post...AMEN!! And to add to that, most lack emotional intelligence and empathy.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

I had orginally written a whole response to your post above, but then I thought really what is the point in trying to offer an adulterer a different perspective?

 

I am not an adulterer, and I don't know where you got that idea.

 

Edited to add: I didn't even mention anything about adultery/cheating in my post.... read it again....

Edited January 6, 2010 by SimplyBeingLoved

[LisaUk]

I am not an adulterer, and I don't know where you got that idea.

 

Edited to add: I didn't even mention anything about adultery/cheating in my post.... read it again....

 

My apoligies Simplybeing loved, my mistake, truely sorry.

 

You're kidding. You really are. You're seeing things that don't exist and ignoring the real things that do exist. Did you even read my last post, the one I quoted? Where/how does that show that I thought cheating on my wife was "right"?

 

I never said you were not good, I was referring to your post, and to be perfectly honest, I did that mainly because earlier on you created a thread about how you felt you were overbearing and opinionated, and asked how you could change. And it's interesting that the moment I questioned your own post in a manner much less aggressive than the way you questioned the previous post, you went into a huff.

 

Do I have problems? Sure I do. I believe everybody has problems.

 

One more thing - My ex and I currently live together with the kids and are attending counselling, trying to find out whether or not this can work. It's always good to hear the entire story before throwing accusations.[/QUOTE]

 

Yes thank you El Ben I already know I am worthless, but thanks for pointing it out to me again. By the way, I would ask you to take your own advice about reading all the information, you acted on my post on that thread, well go back and read it again and you will see that me saying that about myself was me torturing myself as punishment for being me. I wasn't in a huff, I was trying to defend myself from what I felt was your attack, like I said if you re-read that thread you will see why I felt you were attacking me and that I had internalized something said about me b/c of self esteem issues that I have. When you said that based on only half the information, that's why it came across to me as an attack.

Edited January 6, 2010 by LisaUk