Can you explain why I'm pissed off with this guy?

[Phateless]

I also think that's the better choice. I've done what threebyfate suggested, but I remember people denying and saying I was making things up.

 

I remember a friend who was very into me. I once said I wasn't sure if friendship between men and women was really possible or not. He then called me was narrow-minded and of course, it did. Much later, he accused me of playing with his feelings, because I should have known that friendship between men and women did not exist.

 

It's just better to give them a purely subjective reason where they are not able to argue with you.

 

Agreed. Is he really gonna try to argue your feelings? He might try to negotiate, but that's when you have to cut it off and run away.

 

On the flipside, I really do believe in friendship between men and women, but both people need to be on even footing. If one person likes the other, you're not really friends. I do have plenty of female friends with whom there is nothing going on and I enjoy them.

 

There might be a tiny little trace of attraction, but what's wrong with that? It's not like we're going to act on it.

 

I'm simply not attracted to him and I mention his weight issue, because it has added to my irritation.

 

For clarification:

 

* I've once been attracted to a guy who had a belly as well. We ended in a situation where we both were undressed. I laughed a bit at his belly, which seemed to hurt his feelings a bit, but it was not like I was tremendously bothered. In this case, I am, because I'm simply not attracted to him. He also sweats a lot and it then grosses me out to touch him when we dance. I remember in the beginning, I went to this party and he really wanted to dance with me. I did and then I ran away, because I found it gross to touch someone who was soaking wet. I'm even less eager to dance Bachata with him. When the other person has a really protruding belly, you end up dancing dancing closer and with more physical contact. He told me once about a bachata course that was so wicked, because it was taught with close body contact. You're probably not surprised to hear that I declined his suggestion to do a Bachata course together.

 

* I used to have crushes on guys who were really attractive. I remember two guys for whom I had serious crushes and guess what, their attractiveness was not able to prevent me from being put off by what they did or said and from making me finally run away and avoid them. My initial attraction for them vanished as quickly as snow in the sun.

 

To make it short, when you're already attracted to someone, for whatever strange reason, physical imperfections are not a problem. If you're not attracted, physical imperfections become reasons to complain. And physical attractiveness is not good enough to sustain feelings.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not being attracted to someone because of how they look. I've danced with girls who sweat a lot and/or smell bad, and it's just not fun to be in close contact.

 

I agree about Bachata; that's such a close and sexy dance that you really need to be comfortable with your partner.

[PlumPrincess]

Agreed. Is he really gonna try to argue your feelings? He might try to negotiate, but that's when you have to cut it off and run away.

I asked him in my message not to be angry with me, but that I would not discuss this topic any further. Last summer, I broke off contact with this other guy and yes, he was trying to convince me that he wasn't interested in me, that he had a girlfriend, etc. I decided that I didn't care what he said.

 

On the flipside, I really do believe in friendship between men and women, but both people need to be on even footing. If one person likes the other, you're not really friends. I do have plenty of female friends with whom there is nothing going on and I enjoy them.

 

There might be a tiny little trace of attraction, but what's wrong with that? It's not like we're going to act on it.

I do have male friends. I was more pondering the kind of close friendship this guy was hoping for.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not being attracted to someone because of how they look. I've danced with girls who sweat a lot and/or smell bad, and it's just not fun to be in close contact.

 

I agree about Bachata; that's such a close and sexy dance that you really need to be comfortable with your partner.

See, I knew you would understand this thing about Bachata.

 

And yeah, why should I feel guilty about not being attracted to an overweight guy? Because he's attracted to me?

[Phateless]

I asked him in my message not to be angry with me, but that I would not discuss this topic any further. Last summer, I broke off contact with this other guy and yes, he was trying to convince me that he wasn't interested in me, that he had a girlfriend, etc. I decided that I didn't care what he said.

 

 

I do have male friends. I was more pondering the kind of close friendship this guy was hoping for.

 

 

See, I knew you would understand this thing about Bachata.

 

And yeah, why should I feel guilty about not being attracted to an overweight guy? Because he's attracted to me?

 

lol yep, I totally get it. It's kind of a dancer thing.

 

People have a weird tendency to attempt to negotiate things to save face. It's silly, but we all do it. If you're gonna break contact, you can expect people to be angry, but that's not your problem. If you're deciding not to hang out with them, let them deal with it on their own.

 

It takes a while to understand the scene. When people see each other all the time, it can get so close that an outsider will have NO CLUE who is with who, who's sleeping with who, etc.

 

Friends will hold hands, cuddle, kiss each other on the cheek, all while their SOs watch with a smile on their face because it's such a close and sweet group of friends.

 

Plum, just practice being kind but FIRM in your boundaries, and over time you'll figure out how to keep away the people you don't want, and keep close the people you do.

 

Good luck! Feel free to pm me whenever you want to rant about this stuff.

[PlumPrincess]

People have a weird tendency to attempt to negotiate things to save face. It's silly, but we all do it. If you're gonna break contact, you can expect people to be angry, but that's not your problem. If you're deciding not to hang out with them, let them deal with it on their own.

I saw guy #2 yesterday. I feel a bit bad, because I think he doesn't really have a lot of friends right now, he doesn't speak the language well. I don't want him to be unhappy, but I don't want to be his best pal either. Ok, I don't have time to be best pal with everybody and I don't have time and interest to nurture intimate friendships with guys.

 

It takes a while to understand the scene. When people see each other all the time, it can get so close that an outsider will have NO CLUE who is with who, who's sleeping with who, etc.

 

Friends will hold hands, cuddle, kiss each other on the cheek, all while their SOs watch with a smile on their face because it's such a close and sweet group of friends.

Wow, we don't have that here.

 

Plum, just practice being kind but FIRM in your boundaries, and over time you'll figure out how to keep away the people you don't want, and keep close the people you do.

It's really difficult when people want to be friends with you and you have to decline.

 

Good luck! Feel free to pm me whenever you want to rant about this stuff.

Thank you!

[Phateless]

I saw guy #2 yesterday. I feel a bit bad, because I think he doesn't really have a lot of friends right now, he doesn't speak the language well. I don't want him to be unhappy, but I don't want to be his best pal either. Ok, I don't have time to be best pal with everybody and I don't have time and interest to nurture intimate friendships with guys.

 

Completely understand and agree. It's harsh, but life is short and you should choose how you want to spend it.

 

Wow, we don't have that here.

 

lol let me explain. When I lived in a small college town with a REALLY close-knit dancing scene, it was like that. Where I live now the close groups are like that with each other, but the entire scene isn't quite like that.

 

Although it is common for friends to stand and chill with their arms around each other and maybe cuddle slightly between dances. When you see people every week you get comfortable.

 

It's really difficult when people want to be friends with you and you have to decline.

 

Agreed. When I first started to become good with women, I had to learn how to show kind disinterest to people I wasn't attracted to. When you're used to being the one who is rejected, it feels hypocritical at first, but it's necessary.

 

Thank you!

 

Any time! It's nice to have someone here with whom I can compare notes.

[PlumPrincess]

lol let me explain. When I lived in a small college town with a REALLY close-knit dancing scene, it was like that. Where I live now the close groups are like that with each other, but the entire scene isn't quite like that.

 

Although it is common for friends to stand and chill with their arms around each other and maybe cuddle slightly between dances. When you see people every week you get comfortable.

I've noticed subgroups, but people don't really cuddle or are overly affectionate. Must be a cultural thing.

 

Agreed. When I first started to become good with women, I had to learn how to show kind disinterest to people I wasn't attracted to. When you're used to being the one who is rejected, it feels hypocritical at first, but it's necessary.

I've been doing this quite a lot since I started dancing and it sucks, because I also know how it is to be on the other side, feeling lonely, hoping to also receive attention and that your interest gets reciprocated.

 

Any time! It's nice to have someone here with whom I can compare notes.

Yep!

[PlumPrincess]

I was not denying the annoyance, I was explaining that the root of annoyance is entrenched within our species' deep phylogenetic origins.

But what should I be afraid of?

[threebyfate]

I agree with everything EXCEPT the bolded part.

 

Instead, you should simply say, "I'm feeling uncomfortable around you." and leave it at that.

If you don't clarify, persistent pains in the arses won't go away. People hear what they want to hear so ambiguity could be construed in any way they want to twist it. Feeling uncomfortable could be construed as being attracted but not wanting to acknowledge it.

[Simon Attwood]

But what should I be afraid of?

 

 

it's not so much what you should be afraid of, it's more a case of all the things you are afraid of but cannot consciously face, needing to find something to focus on

[PlumPrincess]

If you don't clarify, persistent pains in the arses won't go away. People hear what they want to hear so ambiguity could be construed in any way they want to twist it. Feeling uncomfortable could be construed as being attracted but not wanting to acknowledge it.

I usually fare better when I present my personal point of view and take away the chance for objections. I think the moment I tell them I'm uncomfortable there's always a hint of annoyance and then people do understand that it's not the kind of no=maybe=yes. On the other hand, claiming that someone is into you always invites doubts and criticism. It's like you want to engage in a dialogue with the guy:

 

I: I think you're into me.

He: No, you're misunderstanding. I like you, you're a nice person, but that's it.

I: No, I think you're lying and I think you're hiding your feelings for me.

 

This seems to be worse. Also, other people who hear about it might say the same and make me look like a fool who is so conceited to believe that everybody who wants to be her friend is into her (my mom does ).

 

Those who don't get it, I block and at that point I don't have any qualms anymore. I drew a line, you walked over it, you're out.

[PlumPrincess]

it's not so much what you should be afraid of, it's more a case of all the things you are afraid of but cannot consciously face, needing to find something to focus on

That sounds far fetched to me. Give me an example.

[PlumPrincess]

Guy #1 is in my dancing class now. I've seen him a couple of times at Salsa parties and then I just give him a friendly "Hi" and he says hi back although I think he looks as if he's trying to hide that he's pissed off.

 

I'm also running into guy #2 all the time.

 

I think being clear is good, but not when the social circle is so small. If there's a likelihood that you will run into the person again and again, it's probably best to ignore people and to draw the line each time they want more. It's really awkward with these two at the moment. At least, there's no overlapping of people we know and I hope it stays that way.

[Phateless]

Guy #1 is in my dancing class now. I've seen him a couple of times at Salsa parties and then I just give him a friendly "Hi" and he says hi back although I think he looks as if he's trying to hide that he's pissed off.

 

I'm also running into guy #2 all the time.

 

I think being clear is good, but not when the social circle is so small. If there's a likelihood that you will run into the person again and again, it's probably best to ignore people and to draw the line each time they want more. It's really awkward with these two at the moment. At least, there's no overlapping of people we know and I hope it stays that way.

 

well they've quit bugging you so that's a big improvement!

 

I'm taking a night class on my usual salsa night, so I haven't been in a month.

[PlumPrincess]

well they've quit bugging you so that's a big improvement!

It's quite awkward.

 

I'm taking a night class on my usual salsa night, so I haven't been in a month.

Here, you can go like every night!

[Phateless]

It's quite awkward.

 

 

Here, you can go like every night!

 

lol, same here, but between full-time work, a 40 mile (each way) commute to night-classes 2 days a week, networking group once a week in the morning, and trying to have a gf and a life...

 

Salsa is unfortunately on the back burner at the moment...