I do not understand what happenned

[cyabye]

I'd rather have the attitude of "disrespectful pigeonhole-ing" toward a walk away spouse than to being totally naive and going through (again) what I went through with my ex.

 

cya

[seibert253]

Yes. Women DO leave for reasons that aren't in the script. But it's the exception, not the rule.

 

 

^^^^^

This

[mimidarlin]

I was recently blindsided as well. Caught my husband of fourteen years making out with a woman. We've separated and it has been tremendously difficult for me. I am willing to forgive him but he has to want to be forgiven and make up for the tremendous pain. He wasn't in love with the woman and she's terrified of me now that I confronted her about know where she works, lives, goes to church etc. She is married with children.

 

My husband said he loves me but he doesn't feel in love with me. We haven't had sex for nine months. Part of this was due to me grieving my father's illness and death. I had no sex drive.

 

Anyway, the point I wanted to make about your situation. This is obviously a 2nd marriage for her but is it your first? I just read some surprising data. We all knew that 50% of marriages break up but when the data is broken down it's 40-45% of 1st marriages and closer to 60% of second marriages. The CDC has quite a few reports that analyze many factors but 2nd marriages are more likely to fail and more likely to fail in the first five years.

 

How much of a time span was there from her first divorce to marrying you?

 

I brought this topic up to my husband tonight as we went out to dinner. He was a little shocked. I found it to be a revelation. I want to salvage our marriage but if that isn't possible then we owe it to ourselves to try and work through the reasons for the failure so we don't repeat our mistakes.

[Steadfast]

 

Re Steadfast: People don't get angry or defensive when they're innocent

 

Are you serious??

 

In the context of what he's describing, yes I am. When a women says she loves but isn't in love with you (given the power of female emotions, as described so well by Gunny) it's a done deal. Dead. When she moves it's the equivalent of the casket being lowered into the ground. Shovel dirt.

 

 

...women just don't fall out of love. Believing that is very naive. Women do not leave unless there is violence in the household, adultery on the husband's part or another man waiting on the otherside. ILBNILWU is a cop out to I am in love within someone else but I don't have the "guts" to tell you that.

 

 

Understand El Ben (speaking for myself) that I, nor do I suspect anyone here enjoys reading these scenarios. The pattern, sickening as it is, is a well established one. The purpose here is to help the betrayed or lost...not to gloat over superior knowledge or taking pride in 'being right'. I hate being right about this. Nevertheless, if it looks like it and smells like it...

 

Good job bringing up the counter-point tho. No harm in looking at all sides-

[NowhereToHide]

You know... one thing to consider is whether or not the OP missed the signs (or more to the point, ignored the signs) that his marriage was failing.

 

For years, I told my husband I wasn't happy. For years, I brought up the idea of marriage counseling. For years, I told him specifically the things that I needed and that I wasn't getting. I was the one initiating the dialogue in the marriage. Either he chose not to listen, or more likely, he was afraid to look at the problems for fear of what it would mean for him long term.

 

I ended up having an brief affair earlier this year. I don't blame my husband. It was all my doing. It was my choice. It wasn't the right thing to do, but it woke me up to how far my marriage had run into the ditch -- and I realized that over the course of our marriage I fell out of love with him. It wasn't BECAUSE of my xAP.... it had happened a long time before him. I am no longer with my xAP, so I'm not leaving for anyone. If I leave, I'm leaving because my marriage died a long time ago.

 

We are starting MC in a few weeks. Am I optimistic? Not really. But I am willing to give it a shot for my kids.

 

Everything isn't black and white. There isn't always another person in the picture. Sometimes people fall out of love. It happens.

[reboot]

No, not always. Just usually.

[NowhereToHide]

I don't disagree. Often there IS another person.

 

But I will say that, of those friends that I have who have actually "fallen out of love" with their spouse (one of them was a guy), there was NOT another person. Usually, there were issues that should have been addressed before they married, there were communication issues not addressed, needs not being met.... and of course I'm talking about a disintegration that occurs over YEARS without the other spouse either recognizing it or acknowledging it.

 

I know for a lot of men, they don't WANT to notice there are problems. So rather than address it, they ignore it. Under those circumstances, love can die a slow death. It's what has happened for me.

[Steadfast]

 

...For years, I told my husband I wasn't happy. For years, I brought up the idea of marriage counseling. For years, I told him specifically the things that I needed and that I wasn't getting. I was the one initiating the dialogue in the marriage. Either he chose not to listen, or more likely, he was afraid to look at the problems for fear of what it would mean for him long term.

 

I ended up having an brief affair earlier this year. I don't blame my husband. It was all my doing. It was my choice. It wasn't the right thing to do, but it woke me up to how far my marriage had run into the ditch -- and I realized that over the course of our marriage I fell out of love with him. It wasn't BECAUSE of my xAP.... it had happened a long time before him. I am no longer with my xAP, so I'm not leaving for anyone. If I leave, I'm leaving because my marriage died a long time ago.

 

We are starting MC in a few weeks. Am I optimistic? Not really. But I am willing to give it a shot for my kids.

 

Everything isn't black and white. There isn't always another person in the picture. Sometimes people fall out of love. It happens.

 

 

This post stopped me dead in my tracks. My ex could have written it, word for word. All, except the part about giving MC a try...giving it a shot. That's when I knew it wasn't her... Good for you btw and good luck.

 

Right you are NTH; I mishandled the signs and pleas my wife was giving. It was part not knowing what to do, and part fearing what I suspected; that she didn't love me. I just thought if I was kind, loving and supportive it would all work out. Again, you're right!! The question remains tho...what caused the degradation of your happiness? Lack of attention? Boredom?

 

With all respect however, you've somewhat validated what's being discussed on this thread. You may not leave your husband for a specific man, but you'll certainly leave him for one. Or perhaps, the idea of one. The idea of the ideal. It seems you're not proud of it, but by betraying your husband and having sex with someone else you've already demonstrated your lack of love and desire to be with someone else. Please consider this; your husband probably isn't happy either, but what kept him from cheating? No matter what people say, cheating is vicious revenge and total selfishness personified. In my case, I didn't divorce my wife because she cheated, I divorced her in reaction to her actions after she cheated. I recall realizing that the enemy to our marriage wasn't the men she slept with, but her. She wasn't being pulled away, she was pushing her way out.

 

So, in a twisted way it is about 'someone else'. See, that's why we're saying it's always about someone else, because it is. One way or another.

[NowhereToHide]

This post stopped me dead in my tracks. My ex could have written it, word for word. All, except the part about giving MC a try...giving it a shot. That's when I knew it wasn't her... Good for you btw and good luck.

 

Right you are NTH; I mishandled the signs and pleas my wife was giving. It was part not knowing what to do, and part fearing what I suspected; that she didn't love me. I just thought if I was kind, loving and supportive it would all work out. Again, you're right!! The question remains tho...what caused the degradation of your happiness? Lack of attention? Boredom?

 

With all respect however, you've somewhat validated what's being discussed on this thread. You may not leave your husband for a specific man, but you'll certainly leave him for one. Or perhaps, the idea of one. The idea of the ideal. It seems you're not proud of it, but by betraying your husband and having sex with someone else you've already demonstrated your lack of love and desire to be with someone else. Please consider this; your husband probably isn't happy either, but what kept him from cheating? No matter what people say, cheating is vicious revenge and total selfishness personified. In my case, I didn't divorce my wife because she cheated, I divorced her in reaction to her actions after she cheated. I recall realizing that the enemy to our marriage wasn't the men she slept with, but her. She wasn't being pulled away, she was pushing her way out.

 

So, in a twisted way it is about 'someone else'. See, that's why we're saying it's always about someone else, because it is. One way or another.

 

I didn't miss that fact... that in many ways my post is validating what has already been said on this thread. I almost didn't post at all because of that.

 

The point that I thought was important, though, was that many men are completely oblivious to the issues in their marriage. And when their spouse "falls out of love", they feel blindsided and assume there must be someone else. If I am honest with myself, I was no longer in love with my H BEFORE my affair. It was just a matter of time before I did something drastic -- I had an affair.... of course I wish I would have separated before going down that path.

 

Listen, I get that there are a lot of affairs happening out there, and that many of them are the CAUSE for spouses leaving. No question. But I could have just as easily been on this board 9 months ago talking about how I was no longer in love with my H and I am separating (without an A) since that's where I was before it happened.

 

My point is, my marriage isn't where it is BECAUSE I had an affair. If anything, the affair made me want to work on my M. I didn't feel that before the A.

 

Just my two cents.

[mikeymad]

Steadfast....i could have wrote your post. Sadly, I think it applies to many of us who have been left. The WAW has always been emotionally absent before she is physically so.

 

NTH...care to call our wives and talk some sense into them that we HAVE realized this and it's ok to work on the M?

 

It takes 1/4 of a second to get a message around the world, yet for some of us it takes years to get an idea through 1/4 inch of skull.

[nobmagnet]

i chose to ingore all the red flags and just tried to be the best person I could. I thought he would love me again. He backed off. Turned nasty and eventually his affaire was exposed. To me it couldnt have hurt more.

 

Nowhere to hide..... I can feel your husbands pain because my self and other people here are on the recieving end of sh*tty selfish behaiviour. You should have done him a favour and have got out agaes ago.

 

To find your SO is F*cking sombody else has been the most painful experiance I have ever had. I never will understand men/women being so damn selfish because that is what you are and you cant deny it.

 

If you felt just one day of his pain you would be shocked. Imagine the physical feeling of your heart being ripped out of your chest without anesthetic, then being repeatedly kicked in the stomach, banged over the head with a mattet and then be expected to carry on???????????????????? You have no idea.

 

nothing personal ment to you as an individual, its ment for all the men/women that have affaires.

 

nob

[SimplyBeingLoved]

But I will say that, of those friends that I have who have actually "fallen out of love" with their spouse (one of them was a guy), there was NOT another person. Usually, there were issues that should have been addressed before they married, there were communication issues not addressed, needs not being met.... and of course I'm talking about a disintegration that occurs over YEARS without the other spouse either recognizing it or acknowledging it.

 

I know for a lot of men, they don't WANT to notice there are problems. So rather than address it, they ignore it. Under those circumstances, love can die a slow death. It's what has happened for me.

 

This.

 

It CAN happen without someone else. There is NOT someone else always waiting in the wings. Not in my case, anyway. The idea and ideal of someone else, of a different, deeper relationship eventually, yes-- I do have that. Is that cheating? I think not.

 

Everyone here says that people should leave a marriage before cheating. However, if someone explains that they or their spouse are leaving without cheating being involved, it's exclaimed, "that's not possible, there's always someone else in the picture."

 

In fact, I posted something on another thread about marriage, and someone replied to me, "there's no use trying to convince an adulterer." No where had I ever mentioned or implied that I was cheating. It was just assumed because I've talked about separating from my husband!

 

Unless you think it's not possible to simply fall out of love? Well... it is possible.

[thefirstwife]

I'm sorry to hear about what you are going through. The sheer amount that one person can change is still the biggest shock to me. I feel like I don't even know my husband anymore. It's only been a month since I found out about my husband's infidelity (he still denies it), but the only advice I can give to you is to take care of yourself. Take it day by day and make sure the kids know how much you care for them. Good-luck to you.

[reboot]

Unless you think it's not possible to simply fall out of love? Well... it is possible.

 

No one is arguing that what you describe cannot happen. Obviously it can since that's what happened to you. We're just saying that it isn't the norm. You can't say, "Well, this is what my experience is so that's the way it is with everyone". Based on the thousands of threads I've read on here, you're in the minority.

[mikeymad]

I believe there is a post by fitness dude out there who states it very eloquently. People fall in and out of love all the time, it's not only possible...it's almost inevitable to fall out of love at some point. That's why love isn't merely a feeling, it's a choice; that even when you don't feel it you need to love, because you made a commitment to each other before (i'm guessing) a lot of people, and for many, throw their relationship with God in the mix. Too many people just follow whatever "feeling" they have at the moment. Marriage is not like old yeller, when things get uncomfortable you take it out back and shoot it dead (now if your spouse is foaming at the mouth, that's a different story )

 

If people were willing to understand that commitment, and really sit down and discuss their issues, practice forgivness, cultivate a culture of love between the two of them and really apply themselves,+90% of marriages could be saved IMHO.

[reboot]

Really nice post mikey. I agree with every word.

[Steadfast]

 

I believe there is a post by fitness dude out there who states it very eloquently. People fall in and out of love all the time, it's not only possible...it's almost inevitable to fall out of love at some point. That's why love isn't merely a feeling, it's a choice; that even when you don't feel it you need to love, because you made a commitment to each other before (i'm guessing) a lot of people, and for many, throw their relationship with God in the mix. Too many people just follow whatever "feeling" they have at the moment. Marriage is not like old yeller, when things get uncomfortable you take it out back and shoot it dead...

 

If people were willing to understand that commitment, and really sit down and discuss their issues, practice forgivness, cultivate a culture of love between the two of them and really apply themselves,+90% of marriages could be saved IMHO.

 

 

In a perfect world, perhaps. But as long as we live where people only give imitation love and look to trade up when they're bored, then all the common sense in the world isn't going to help. Today, for the most part, selfishness is taught as proper and considered good self-protection practice.

[mikeymad]

well then maybe not in a perfect world....just one where everyone thinks like me

[El Ben]

This.

 

It CAN happen without someone else. There is NOT someone else always waiting in the wings. Not in my case, anyway. The idea and ideal of someone else, of a different, deeper relationship eventually, yes-- I do have that. Is that cheating? I think not.

 

Everyone here says that people should leave a marriage before cheating. However, if someone explains that they or their spouse are leaving without cheating being involved, it's exclaimed, "that's not possible, there's always someone else in the picture."

 

In fact, I posted something on another thread about marriage, and someone replied to me, "there's no use trying to convince an adulterer." No where had I ever mentioned or implied that I was cheating. It was just assumed because I've talked about separating from my husband!

 

Unless you think it's not possible to simply fall out of love? Well... it is possible.

 

 

Haha, Quality! I also got attacked for defending your previous thread by the way....