How can I stop the divorce my wife wants?

[hopesndreams]

Sunny what part do you think you played in the break down of the marriage and him cheating on you? IMO when you cheat you fill a void your spouse had once filled.

 

I know this question is for sunny but I cannot resist piping in. The statements above are a lie, to yourself, tnt, you did not make your wife cheat by what you said, didn't say, do or didn't do. The sooner you open your eyes to that the clearer would be your understanding. Did you lift her skirt up? It was her choice and her choice only. Believe it, or believe it not, but there are betrayed spouses out there that didn't ask for any of this. They were good, honest, giving and committed. It's a shame the cheater was none of those things. Instead, they turn into manipulators, cunning deceivers and just out for themselves. Did you have a part in turning your wife into this?

 

The spouse that cheats is lacking something within themselves. They are cowards. Cheating takes place when they can't handle stress and their emotions. When they no longer communicate their wants and needs. The cheater will feel hard done by, as in, my W/H is ignoring me and I need to feel special. Oh look, Joe Blow over there is giving me the eye, that feels gooooooooood....and then they act upon it.

 

The only void they are trying to fill is the one they have in themselves. You didn't put it there. They can't look inwardly for happiness, they look to others for it.

[Enema]

At the risk of offending sensibilities... this whole situation is pathetic.

 

I skipped maybe 3 pages here total, but it sounds like she's got you firmly ensconced in the belief that it's all your fault she cheated and you have to change and make a constant effort in order to keep her.

 

Where does she take responsibility for her own actions? Where's her profuse apologies begging for you to forgive her heinous cheating actions? What is she going to work on so this doesn't happen again? She's completely turned this around on you and make it your fault that she cheated.

 

And if you screw up again... or she chooses to just say you have, she can cheat again guilt free and just say it's your fault for dropping the ball like this time, right?

 

People here hesitate to post conflicting views - but I think it's a damn embarrassing shame to even consider reconciling with this unrepentant banshee who's done nothing but blame you for her mistakes.

[2sunny]

i know i didn't cause my H to cheat. we all have choices - if he wanted to cheat he could have divorced me and done whatever his wishes were.

 

i do know that his behaviors while cheating caused a lack of trust while in the M... that was more harmful and hurtful than anything.

 

the fact that he was unwilling to come clean the first time he cheated really showed me how selfish he really was. he didn't want to be truthful and he didn't want to talk about it.

 

i can't change that for him - i can say that it was painful and the M and trust level suffered as a result of it.

 

IF he had been willing to be honest and repair the relationship as well - i think we would have had a whole different end result. the fact that he addressed the situation that way the first time left me unwilling to go back and figure that things would be any difference once he was to cheat again - hence my reason for not wanting to even try the second time.

 

i was just done - he should have/ could have made things so much better with a little honesty... i could have handled anything if he would have put the truth out there.

 

no matter how bad the truth would have hurt - it was nothing in comparison to not ever knowing. there was nothing to work off of - except more lies, cover up and deceit.

[tnttim]

At the risk of offending sensibilities... this whole situation is pathetic.

 

I skipped maybe 3 pages here total, but it sounds like she's got you firmly ensconced in the belief that it's all your fault she cheated and you have to change and make a constant effort in order to keep her.

 

Where does she take responsibility for her own actions? Where's her profuse apologies begging for you to forgive her heinous cheating actions? What is she going to work on so this doesn't happen again? She's completely turned this around on you and make it your fault that she cheated.

 

And if you screw up again... or she chooses to just say you have, she can cheat again guilt free and just say it's your fault for dropping the ball like this time, right?

 

People here hesitate to post conflicting views - but I think it's a damn embarrassing shame to even consider reconciling with this unrepentant banshee who's done nothing but blame you for her mistakes.

No she did come clean, and said she was NC with OM, she broke it to let him down softly. I read the messages and it's over. Sunny was saying she crossed the line and should be punished. I said I did, but I used a less traditional non-verbal approach. She has admited the damage down by her A, and she is truly remorseful. I can see it in her eyes she loves me, I know what her eyes look like when she doesn't. We are still in the process of getting back to normal, if there is such a thing.

[tnttim]

i know i didn't cause my H to cheat. we all have choices - if he wanted to cheat he could have divorced me and done whatever his wishes were.

 

Sunny, I'm sorry but you played a bigger part then you think. I'm not saying it was your fault, they made the choice, I'm saying you pushed him in that direction some how. 18 years is long time, and IMO he made the choice long before he cheated.

[2sunny]

Sunny, I'm sorry but you played a bigger part then you think. I'm not saying it was your fault, they made the choice, I'm saying you pushed him in that direction some how. 18 years is long time, and IMO he made the choice long before he cheated.

 

i was too passive back then. i should have had a firm boundary and stuck to it. i should have given him major consequences the first time around... i should have gotten flaming mad!

[tnttim]

i was too passive back then. i should have had a firm boundary and stuck to it. i should have given him major consequences the first time around... i should have gotten flaming mad!

Then you wouldn't have gotten chance number 2. Your anger, which was there you just supressed it, is not what brought him back. The fact you showed little concern is what did. He knew cheating was wrong, you telling him that held no value because it's a given, cheating is wrong. Of course your not going to put up with a cheating spouse, no one would. The 2nd time around failed because you probably stepped up the I love you so much part, and I want to keep you happy nonsense. He got bored with you and cheated again. You can't prevent someone cheating by telling them not to cheat, you have to change into someone they are afraid to lose. Being independent, confident, strong, open minded, easy going, and not trying to change them will prevent any cheater from cheating. I'm not leaving this site, so time will tell if I'm right or wrong on this, I'll let all you LSers know count on it.

[2sunny]

Then you wouldn't have gotten chance number 2. Your anger, which was there you just supressed it, is not what brought him back. The fact you showed little concern is what did. He knew cheating was wrong, you telling him that held no value because it's a given, cheating is wrong. Of course your not going to put up with a cheating spouse, no one would. The 2nd time around failed because you probably stepped up the I love you so much part, and I want to keep you happy nonsense. He got bored with you and cheated again. You can't prevent someone cheating by telling them not to cheat, you have to change into someone they are afraid to lose. Being independent, confident, strong, open minded, easy going, and not trying to change them will prevent any cheater from cheating. I'm not leaving this site, so time will tell if I'm right or wrong on this, I'll let all you LSers know count on it.

 

this description of what went wrong and my character traits couldn't be farther from the truth. i am all of those strong character traits you listed - and always have been. the M failed because he's a full blown narcssist... as big as they come... he knows it too - wants me back even though he's married again. ummm, that's a no! i learned long ago - some people just will always cheat - and they think they deserve that too, he was one of them.

 

don't get me wrong - there were a million ways our M was great... just didn't think i wanted to settle for his cheating ways and what that looked like in our M.

[tnttim]

this description of what went wrong and my character traits couldn't be farther from the truth. i am all of those strong character traits you listed - and always have been. the M failed because he's a full blown narcssist... as big as they come... he knows it too - wants me back even though he's married again. ummm, that's a no! i learned long ago - some people just will always cheat - and they think they deserve that too, he was one of them.

 

don't get me wrong - there were a million ways our M was great... just didn't think i wanted to settle for his cheating ways and what that looked like in our M.

I guess I just don't understand why happy people cheat or maybe the cheatee doesn't want to admit fault.

[2sunny]

I guess I just don't understand why happy people cheat or maybe the cheatee doesn't want to admit fault.

 

if you understand the true narcissist you might understand why if it's still happy and amazing that they still have such a sense of entitlement that they deserve more and at the same time would never be happy with everything they could ever dream of.

 

it's only as the years have gone by that he's starting to realize that he should have been more than happy (and admits that he was at the time).

 

i could never begin to explain how perfect our life really was even while he was cheating. he just never knew how to avoid temptation and didn't think he needed to say no.

[tnttim]

if you understand the true narcissist you might understand why if it's still happy and amazing that they still have such a sense of entitlement that they deserve more and at the same time would never be happy with everything they could ever dream of.

 

it's only as the years have gone by that he's starting to realize that he should have been more than happy (and admits that he was at the time).

 

i could never begin to explain how perfect our life really was even while he was cheating. he just never knew how to avoid temptation and didn't think he needed to say no.

Did you ever think that maybe he wants you more now because you being gone doesn't please his narcissist ego. The perfect life he had with you is now gone forever. So actually you could have fed into his narcissist mind during the M by tearing down a little of that perfect world, like you did when you left for good. Then he would see his perfect life needs you in it, you complete his perfect life. It sounds like a lot of work and though. Plus you would have to look past the cheating part. I think you should be happy to know his life will never be complete without you, no one can fill the void he has in his heart except you, and he deserves to feel that way for the rest of his life.

[tnttim]

i could never begin to explain how perfect our life really was even while he was cheating. he just never knew how to avoid temptation and didn't think he needed to say no.

That's because he had both of you at that point. Now his life sucks because he lost you. His problem was he wasn't scared of losing you.

[2sunny]

Did you ever think that maybe he wants you more now because you being gone doesn't please his narcissist ego. The perfect life he had with you is now gone forever. So actually you could have fed into his narcissist mind during the M by tearing down a little of that perfect world, like you did when you left for good. Then he would see his perfect life needs you in it, you complete his perfect life. It sounds like a lot of work and though. Plus you would have to look past the cheating part. I think you should be happy to know his life will never be complete without you, no one can fill the void he has in his heart except you, and he deserves to feel that way for the rest of his life.

 

Tim, we went down that road when he cheated the first time and i forgave him. we've been through all of that. he cheated again ten years after the first time. he's now married to someone and still shows signs of cheating on her too.

 

he'll never be happy - no matter what the circumstances. that i know for sure... it's too exhausting being M to someone who doesn't know how to be happy or faithful.

 

what i really wish for him is that he could learn to be happy... and satisfied.

[tnttim]

Tim, we went down that road when he cheated the first time and i forgave him. we've been through all of that. he cheated again ten years after the first time. he's now married to someone and still shows signs of cheating on her too.

 

he'll never be happy - no matter what the circumstances. that i know for sure... it's too exhausting being M to someone who doesn't know how to be happy or faithful.

 

what i really wish for him is that he could learn to be happy... and satisfied.

Than you truly are better off without him.

[2sunny]

That's because he had both of you at that point. Now his life sucks because he lost you. His problem was he wasn't scared of losing you.

 

nah, most of the 20 years were happy. i don't think his lfe sucks, but i could be wrong. yes, he was scared of losing me - he just didn't think i would actually leave him.

[2sunny]

Than you truly are better off without him.

 

i do feel that way now. i don't view my perspective as a bitter scorned woman... i loved the life we had - i love the life i have now... it's all good!

[FlightLevel370]

Hey all,

 

Sorry I've been offline for a few days...that thing called work has gotten in the way. I think in my last update a few days ago, I said my wife came back to sleep in the bedroom; that lasted Sunday-Wednesday night.

 

All week, my wife has been asking what I'd like her to prepare for dinner, and I've told her (why not? Make her do some work for me, no?). Wednesday night, I got home at 9pm, and she had a meal waiting for me, something not normal, but I was hungry. She asked me to breakfast on Thursday morning (she paid). She is also an aerobics instructor, so I volunteered to take her class after breakfast-she was happy, and I actually had a good time. After class, she had to go to her other job, so we had separate cars at the health club. I walked her to the car, and she actually kissed me on the lips! I felt things were actually turning around. She kept mentioning how she wouldn't be able to see me before I left for work, but she came home early just as I was leaving, and gave me another kiss on the lips! When I arrived back from my flight, I called her to tell her I was on my way home, and she ended the conversation with "I love you"...I was shocked! I haven't heard that in 2 months!

 

Then, 10 minutes later, she called to apologize for saying that and took it back. I checked the cell history, and immediately after any "uplifting" conversation, she contacts her bitch friend, and then I get a negative punch...that's what I saw last night. I get home, and there's a note in the kitchen saying she has left the bedroom again since I'll be off for a few days. Today, she says she'll come back after we start marriage counseling (Tuesday)....WTF?

 

A lot of my friends thinks she's not going to leave, and is playing hard to get now, to ssee how hard I'd fight for her...

 

What do you guys think?

[2sunny]

how hard you will fight? wait, wasn't she the one who cheated? let HER do all the work.

 

she seems way too comfortable - and calling the shots and requirements? like you need to prove something?

 

ummm, no - this looks backwards. throw her out and see how motivated she becomes to start fixing things... it's her responsibility to go to IC to see why she cheated and how she can avoid doing it again. as long as she's in the house and has full access to you - she's perfectly comfortable, no reason to change things. also, the toxic friend needs to go - tell her...

 

man up - set the boundary and show her that you won't put up with half an effort when she wants to make it. that's just not good enough.

[tnttim]

Everything you said is great news, the fact she left that note is a blessing in disguise. The note and everything after that is a test. Be happy she's testing you because IMO she really cares now. They always test the waters before they jump in, I think we all do. You just have to past the test and move on. How you pass it is up to you though.

The b*tch friend can be dealt with, read the part in Homer's book about the jealous friend. My wife's b*tch friend ruined it on her own when all the things she said I was going to do never happened. I didn't point it out, my W saw through the BS on her own.

My wife was also the first to say I love you, it was way too early for me. She asked me why I didn't say it back, I told her "it was too early for that, lets take this slow." I think it was a test as well, to see my reaction.

My advice, take it slow, don't read into every little comment or action, and be extra nice to b*tch friend she'll self destruct on her own.

Did you read the chapter on wants and needs?

Edited January 16, 2010 by tnttim

[FlightLevel370]

yeah tnttim, I read the book twice, but I'll b reviewing parts of it in the morning. She gave me a hug and a kiss just now before she went to sleep in my daughter's room...we'll see how long that lasts since my 5-yr old girl asked ME why Mommy is sleeping there again. I told her to ask Mommy about that in the morning! W also told me she enjoyed her day with me as she asked me to a movie this afternoon...like Homer says, agree with everything, so I said I enjoyed it too.

 

I'm beginning to think she's pre-menopausal though; she's 38, her mom started at 38 as well.

[2sunny]

why are you rewarding her manipulation?

 

why kiss her, why go to the movie? if you pretend like everything is fine - she will never know what needs to be changed... be honest and stop rewarding her bad behavior.

[hopesndreams]

yeah tnttim, I read the book twice, but I'll b reviewing parts of it in the morning. She gave me a hug and a kiss just now before she went to sleep in my daughter's room...we'll see how long that lasts since my 5-yr old girl asked ME why Mommy is sleeping there again. I told her to ask Mommy about that in the morning! W also told me she enjoyed her day with me as she asked me to a movie this afternoon...like Homer says, agree with everything, so I said I enjoyed it too.

 

I'm beginning to think she's pre-menopausal though; she's 38, her mom started at 38 as well.

 

Are both of you made up now? She didn't cheat on you? I'm lost, refresh my memory please.

 

What has going into menopause have to do with anything?

[Gunny376]

Being menopausal and MLC can go hand in hand? Menopause can occur as early in a woman as her late twenties or early thirties.

Although more commonly occurs in their late thirties to forties and even fifties.

 

Men sexually peak in their late teens, women sexually peak in their early tewenties to late to mid late thrities.

 

 

Again read "Brain Sex" to understad it all.''

 

Just understanding a wonan's menestutal cycle is worth it all! The flood of hormones that jestions that flow through their bodies within a 30 day cycle? The estrones, the proestrogenes, the testrones

[FlightLevel370]

why are you rewarding her manipulation?

 

why kiss her, why go to the movie? if you pretend like everything is fine - she will never know what needs to be changed... be honest and stop rewarding her bad behavior.

 

2Sunny,

 

I don't know if u r missing the point of this thread, but I'm trying to prevent a divorce. The whole object of the 180/Homer stuff is to get your spouse to start coming around, which is kind of what's happened here. TntTim even went thru the same thing. By being totally against her, this could end up in a divorce as well. I am taking it slowly, but one of the things the 180/tnttim have said is do some of the things u did while u were dating....that's what we r doing. There was no PA, only an EA. She and I have discussed again, and if u choose to think differently, then that is fine. I'm came to LS looking for advice from others who have gone they what I am going thru.

 

I know my wife was wrong with her EA, but I'm PARTLY at fault for getting us here with the way I treated her for so long . Yes, I busted my a$$ to support my family, and I'd get stressed out and take it out on her, making me look likecthe bad husband. If I kept that behavior up, what incentive would there be to renew our marriage?

 

Once again, tnttim has said my marriage is over. It is; I can't look back at the past, I can only have the mindset that we have to start over, and first comes dating...that's where my wife and I agree we are. I'm just trying to figure our what's going on in her head right now. We r actually having a good time getting reacquainted, and I know it's a slow process, but I'm still in uncharted territory and am still looking for what others hv gone thru when they've come to THIS point.

[FlightLevel370]

Are both of you made up now? She didn't cheat on you? I'm lost, refresh my memory please.

 

What has going into menopause have to do with anything?

 

I guess you don't know any who has gone thru this? I hear "The Exorcist" movie very closely parallels this phonomenon!