How can I stop the divorce my wife wants?

[tnttim]

Day 5 of "the Love Dare" is to ask ur spouse 3 things that irritate her or make her uncomfortable around u. She had a ton of stuff to say before our marriage exploded, but after that she has only one thing: she wants to know if my new behavior will last, since I've only been doing it faithfully for almost 2 weeks. I know it's hard work, just like u guys said, but at the end of the day, my family is worth it, just like Gunny and tnttim said. Then I threw in some 180 and told her that I'm positive we r divorcing, even after we r done seeing a real marriage counselor (not the church). I reiterated that it's not what I prefer, but I accept it and am ready to go thru with it. I said all I've learned in this situation will be applied to my future relationships. Her response: don't think about that, let's just concentrate on this one....

That's great. She's starting to get on board. I will read love dare and let you know what I think. It sounds like it's working, read my post too about the playful drama, it sounds similair to the irritate part of your post.

[FlightLevel370]

Well, I don't know if this is a curveball or a powerplay. A few hours after our conversation, she told me she felt really good that I was accepting of the divorce, and since I feel that way, it will b easier for her to make her decision after we go to counseling...I kept my mouth shut and acted unphased, but I can't tell if this is true at face value, or if she's trying to take back control. She sat right next to me on the sofa as we watched tv, and is coming back to sleep in our bed....

[tnttim]

Well, I don't know if this is a curveball or a powerplay. A few hours after our conversation, she told me she felt really good that I was accepting of the divorce, and since I feel that way, it will b easier for her to make her decision after we go to counseling...I kept my mouth shut and acted unphased, but I can't tell if this is true at face value, or if she's trying to take back control. She sat right next to me on the sofa as we watched tv, and is coming back to sleep in our bed....

It was a test and you passed, be happy.

[2sunny]

Well, I don't know if this is a curveball or a powerplay. A few hours after our conversation, she told me she felt really good that I was accepting of the divorce, and since I feel that way, it will b easier for her to make her decision after we go to counseling...I kept my mouth shut and acted unphased, but I can't tell if this is true at face value, or if she's trying to take back control. She sat right next to me on the sofa as we watched tv, and is coming back to sleep in our bed....

 

and she'll have sex with you tonight as another power play... she'll have you right where she wants you.

 

why are you letting her sleep with you now? people who say they are divorcing don't have the spouse sleep with them... she's calling your bluff and manipulating the hell out of you - and YOU are LETTING her!

 

where's your boundary man? start telling her NO!

[Gunny376]

When a man and a woman get together in a relationship, most will "bitch test" and will do so periodically to see if your measure up and continue to measure up to what her personal standard is of what a man is.

 

Women tend to speak in indirect terms for the most parts, ("GenderSpeak" and "You Just Don't Understand" ~ two books about the differences in the way men and women communicate.

 

Its well known that if your wanting to go say ~ golfing and she responds with "I rather you didn't" is women-speak for "If you do, I'm going to be seriously PO at you for awhile!" Or if a woman says, "FINE!" You can bet it isn't.

 

But 80% + of all human communication isn't through the use of words, (although women tend to use between 6,000 to 8000 words a day compared to your typical man's 3 tr 6 thousand.

 

With that in mind you might want to pick a good book on how to read body language ~ preferably with illustrations. You might want to do a Goggle search on the subject.

 

One of the subjects that helped me, was studying and reading about how to be a sale man and some formal classes on the subject, (I was in sales very briefly. In one of the classes the instructor overcoming objections in persuading his wife to have sex ~ when she wasn't in the mood.

 

I also learned about "mirroring" the other person, how to used different positioning methods, etc.

 

Most really good salesmen are extremely good at prospering for clients, meeting and greeting, qualifying the prospect, feature and benefit, overcoming objections, and closing the deal.

 

Well they use these same techniques in picking up women. Except instead of selling a car? They're selling themselves.

 

Another important part in being a successful salesman is in making the sales pitch / process fun and exciting. And combining that with something called capitalization. Finding out individual aspects about the prospect by asking leading questions and then praising them for what they do, what they've done, what they're going to do etc. And using that to become engaged with them.

 

Well it so happens all of this is a key ingredient in successful long term relationships.

 

What I would have done Flight is I would have told her "I think its too soon, and we should wait.

 

Women are accustomed to having their way when it comes to physical intimacy. They're well accustomed to boys / men trying to get into their pants. A man who can show restraint and self control shows self discipline and control ~ an Alpha Male trait.

 

I agree she's very much testing you. But just about any woman you get with is going to do that. The trick is in knowing when and that your being tested.

 

One of the things to keep in mind with women? Anticipation ~ building it in any and all things. This isn't about manipulation, its about raising the tempo, the excitement, desire level of not just her but the relationship.

 

Women want and need anticipation in their lives. (Reference Carly Simon's song ~ "Anticipation") Its also a fundamental part of being successful intimately with a woman. The book, "How To Satisfy A Woman Every time and having her begging for more!" (Written by a woman and explaining sex from a woman's perspective) the book is written around one word ~ Anticipation. She list one and only one "method"

 

Its important that you understand that once you marry a woman? You become "my" husband. When you buy a house? Its seldom "our" house but "my" house or when you have children, "my" children.

 

You are and your children are an "extension" of who she self identifies as a person. You think she buy you and the children clothes just for you? No because your an extension of who she is as a woman, and she's very concerned with her self image both to herself and to others.

 

Finally once you've re-established your place using the Homer/180's as the AlphaMale, you may want to consider saying "No" to every time she brings something up and that you would normally say "Yes" to.

 

It doesn't have to be any thing big or major, just say "No" because you said "Yes" three or four times before. Again this isn't manipulation ~ this is showing that your not a supplicating little boy like all the other @zz kissing, begging, pleading little boys trying to get in her pants she's known all of her life.

 

She can have this kind of man any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

 

What you want to do is show her (as you've been doing) the new alternative Flight vs the old Flight vs the OM.

 

What happened is during the course of transitioning from your old commuter pilot job, up to a higher level? Required you to be challenged, (new job, new aircraft, new standards, new company, new policies, new management) = STRESS!

 

You channeled more and more of your energy into your job. Women really don't care too much about men's jobs ~ in so long as it pays the bills, affords the lifestyle which she's become accustomed to etc.

 

Her husband's job isn't so much about what he does or even earns ~ as it is about her social-economic status? (Qualifier! Not any and all women are like this. But as a general rule a lot of them are. There are some mustangs in every herd)

 

You got so wrapped in the transition, being a provider, paying the bills, keeping a roof over your head you neglected your other roles in the multiple roles you play in the inter-dynamics of being a husband, lover, friend, father, provider, maintenance man, mechanic, CEO, CFO, lawn boy, pool boy, friend, tax consultant AND Oh yea! Airline Pilot! ("Geeezzh! Now I've got learn how to land this SOB in the Hudson! ) All got pushed aside.

 

In short?

 

When your up to your neck in alligators, snakes, and Indians one tends to forget that your initial objective was to?

 

Drain the damn swamp!

 

On a side note?

 

My last trip back from Asia, I caught one of those twin engine prop commuter flights back to Alabama. At the check in counter the clerk asked me how much I weighed? I asked her why she needed to know that?

 

She told me it was so they would know how much fuel to put in the plane?

 

I told her, "Fill that SOB up!"

 

She said something about fuel effiececy ~ yada ~ yada!

 

I told her, "Look I hate to know I died in a plane crash because somebody lied about their weight!"

 

And another damn thing! Everytime I've ever flown! Ya'll are always telling me about how I can use my seat cushion as a floation device in case we crash over water!

 

Damn that! I want one that's going to skip my happy @zz through those corn fields in Ohio or Iowa they're always crashing into!

 

 

I prefer to drive most places I go, because if you hear a "funny noise" all of a sudden or feel a thud on I-95, 85, whatever, you can turn to the person your riding with and say, "Did you hear that?" and pull over and investigate!

 

But if your in a plane and you hear a funny noise or feel a thud out of no where? Your just going to have to "white-knuckle that SOB to the ground!

 

God Bless you and yours!

 

Guns out!

[Gunny376]

and she'll have sex with you tonight as another power play... she'll have you right where she wants you.

 

and YOU are LETTING her!

 

where's your boundary man? start telling her NO!

 

So true! A supplicating, begging, needing, whinning little boy on the curb crying little boy with his pants down around his ankles!

 

NOW! That's not directed toward you personally Flight.

 

That's directed toward the many men WHO are such. The ones that act like freaking idiots over Penthouse and Playboy centerfolds, the Dallas cheerleaders, throw aways untold millions of dollars each year over some gal working in a strip club.

 

Who ruin their families, their marriages, their careers, their lives over a POA?

 

The Gov of SC comes to mind?

 

Robert Edwards, Newt Gingrich, Tiger Woods, Magic Johnson, Charlie Sheen, Bill Clinton

 

I know the real deal here Flight. Its not just about sex.

 

Its about your family, your wife your children and not just some woman or a POA your fighting for here!

Edited January 11, 2010 by Gunny376

[2sunny]

she's working his weak side every time she sees an opening for it. don't give her any reason to even think there's an opening.

[Gunny376]

she's working his weak side every time she sees an opening for it. don't give her any reason to even think there's an opening.

 

Agreed!

 

But I'm a lot wiser, smarter and experienced that I was back in the day when I went through this crap back in the day?

 

Back before PC's, the internet, and such fourmns as LS.

 

Indeed! That was my problem! I was too young, dumb, in-experienced in relationships, and just plain old @zz ignorant!

 

The laws "were a changing" from the fifties to the new centuary.

 

The new way to do things?

 

Is a man needs to go out and get his education!

 

Then once he's chossen his trade?

 

He needs to master it (A good five to ten years)

 

Then once he's master his trade? And while doing so? He needs to find himself a "Homestead" (Buy and furnish himself a house)

 

He shouldn't even think about getting married until he's got one solid years income in the bank (That is to say he can go one solid year without any money coming in)

 

Then he needs to put back another $5000 (minimum) for auto repairs, and another $X for appliance and furniture replacement (which he should have in place for the initial purchase) Put back some more money each year for property taxes, auto registration, medical and dental health insurance premiumns and deductables. Things you know are coming down the pike road!

 

LOL! 2sunny you and I both know what's gong on!

 

Vets know vets! This isn't our first rodeo!

 

Pull up Flight!

 

Pull up!

 

Back up ~ re-group!

 

Dump the MC and insist that you and the DW go to IC (Individual Couseling) and then MC.

 

Accept that the mariage is over. At least for the time being.

 

Insist that both of you come out of this straight and sane!

 

Insist that the DW break off contact with the OM, not for your sake, but for hers.

[FlightLevel370]

Well, I have to keep it short since I gotta go fly this morning, but there was no sex last night, she did however give me a pretty good backrub. We didn't talk about anything either.

 

The OM seems pretty good as gone. I've been chking the cellphone activity and there is nothing suspicious, and if she had another phone, the kids would spot it and say something.

 

My concern is she has one of those bitchy friends (who hates me) and I think she feeds my wife a lot if info...between the time I asked my W the 3 things that bug her about me to the time she told me she was happy I was ok with still divorcing, she had gone to that bitch's house, and I know this came up in the chat!

[Gunny376]

Oh no doubt! Misery loves company!

 

Having lived in military housing, its like a freaking link of dominoes! It starts on one end of the block and runs rampant like Scarlet Fever!

 

AS I told the X. "You weren't un-happy until someone told you shouldn't be happy!"

 

Its like a begger that has been happy all of his life, until someone comes along and told him that he shouldn't be happy because they're un-happy and they're not a begger? So he should be un-happier than they are?

 

WTF!

[FlightLevel370]

Yeah, and that bitch hates her husband because he is ALWAYS out fishing and pays her very little attention. I'm pretty sure that she isn't going to D me, esp after her comment telling me to concentrate on our relationship. She gave a little with that, and tried to take some back; the thing is I didn't let up. Yeah, I let her back in the bed, but I was thinking about the effect thiswas having on my 5 yr old daughter who was sharing her bed with my W (luckily its a full size bed), but my little girl has asked a few times why Mommy was doing that.

 

Like I said, this is clearly becoming a game of power, I just have to keep making it look like I don't care....

[tnttim]

Let her initiate the sex it will be worth it believe me. Don't give in to her subtle hints either. You let her be the aggresser. If you don't give in then you'll know for certain its not a game on her end, she needs it.

[FlightLevel370]

I finally got some intel from an old friend of ours who had deep conversation with my wife tonight. My wife is holding out to see whether or not my new "happy/positive Homer-esque behavior" is going to be permanent, or if I'll go back to my old ways. She just thinks it a little odd that I chgd so much, so quickly. It was kinda tough in the beginning, but not too bad now. I see how much more the kids like me, as well as the W. She told our friend she only had an EA (no sex), and that she likes how I am now...now I gotta b like this forever....it's almost like Clark Griswald in Vacation: "we'll need plastic surgery to remove our smiles-We'll b singing Zippity-doo-dah out of our a**holes!"

[2sunny]

i would never encourage someone to pretend their way through a reconciliation. why pretend to be happy about someone willingly ripping your life into pieces?

 

to act happy and positive is just phoney... be honest, be clear and be tough and consistent. SHE created this, not you...and she should be expected to repair what she has created.

 

if she's still not willing to be totally transparent with EVERY part of her life - then it's worthless.

 

i hope she sees this and starts stepping up her part in this.

 

do not reward her misguided efforts with sleeping with her and pretending things are just peachy.

 

make her damn uncomfortable... she's got work to do if she wants you participating in the M.

[Gunny376]

Ultimately arguing is one spouse telling another, how they need to be loved and and how to love them.

 

That's what arguing is all about!

 

Are you listening?

 

Or you wanting to be right?

 

 

Are your hearing what they're saying? Or listening to what they're needing?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Gunny376

[2sunny]

Ultimately arguing is one spouse telling another, how they need to be loved and and how to love them.

 

That's what arguing is all about!

 

Are you listening?

 

Or you wanting to be right?

 

 

Are your hearing what they're saying? Or listening to what they're needing?

 

arguing isn't necessary - stating exactly what he is and isn't willing to tolerate is very productive... then stick to the boundaries stated for her.

[Gunny376]

arguing isn't necessary - stating exactly what he is and isn't willing to tolerate is very productive... then stick to the boundaries stated for her.

 

 

Of course that works for the two of us? We're no BS LoveShackers! We're Vets!

[2sunny]

Of course that works for the two of us? We're no BS LoveShackers! We're Vets!

 

ahhhhh, well, one of my perspectives here is that from a betrayed wife's point of view. i try hard to look beyond that one perspective as i have had the roll of many positions here. the BS hurt the most though, and my marriage ended after 20 years... still hurts like hell some days. i have learned what happy looks like all on my own though. his selfish actions ruined the lives of many.

 

mainly it had no way of repair because my H wasn't willing to be honest or to repair the M... he was only sorry he got caught, again... i enforced my prior boundary which was to D without so much as a conversation since he had cheated again.

[Gunny376]

Agreeded! Its very much multiplexed and complicated!

[2sunny]

and i do agree - the no bs but straight shooter approach works for me... life experiences on what to do and what not to do seems such a simple approach.

 

simple and hard at the same time - takes courage to make necessary changes.

[tnttim]

and i do agree - the no bs but straight shooter approach works for me... life experiences on what to do and what not to do seems such a simple approach.

 

simple and hard at the same time - takes courage to make necessary changes.

The no BS straight shooter works for YOU is the under statement of this post. Sunny have you ever thought that your approach actually drove your spouse further away? The no BS straight shooter plan has left you lonely and bitter, but yet you pound that point home post after post, yes I read your prior posts to other people. My problem with you is you offer advice that isn't contrary to what you accomplished. Take Gunny for example, he messed up his chances with W and is offering the opposite advice he used when trying to get spouse back. He has truly learned from his mistakes, and is here trying to help peoples on the belief an open minded spouse is a desirable spouse. You however are still sticking to the plan that didn't work for you, the totalitarian. You told your husband in essence, "it's my way or the highway." He chose the highway, big surprise! So flight if she offers you advice, just do the exact opposite and it will work out fine.

[2sunny]

The no BS straight shooter works for YOU is the under statement of this post. Sunny have you ever thought that your approach actually drove your spouse further away? The no BS straight shooter plan has left you lonely and bitter, but yet you pound that point home post after post, yes I read your prior posts to other people. My problem with you is you offer advice that isn't contrary to what you accomplished. Take Gunny for example, he messed up his chances with W and is offering the opposite advice he used when trying to get spouse back. He has truly learned from his mistakes, and is here trying to help peoples on the belief an open minded spouse is a desirable spouse. You however are still sticking to the plan that didn't work for you, the totalitarian. You told your husband in essence, "it's my way or the highway." He chose the highway, big surprise! So flight if she offers you advice, just do the exact opposite and it will work out fine.

 

what makes you think my xH didn't want me back? h did want me back 5 years ago - and still wants me back to this very day... i could get back with him in a heartbeat - i choose not to be with a man that cheats... i want more than that for myself. i was married 20 years... now i choose a man that knows what faithful looks like.

 

who says i don't do contrary action now? my inability to set a solid boundary is what got me into a mess while married. a solid boundary now insures me of happy. healthy and safe in my life everyday.

 

i will no longer put up with less than 100% while telling myself that it should be enough. lies and sneakiness no longer has a place in my life. they are very destructive and hurtful. i could never tell you how different life looks today but it is. sooo much better when there is no worry that my H is lying and cheating while at the same time making love to me everyday and smiling and having fun. his level of control, perfection and manipulation was extreme - life doesn't have to look like that anymore.

 

things are happy this way - i promise... and i do believe in being happy either married or not. i am a straight shooter - honesty helps the happy part of the marriage though, i've said that from the start.

[tnttim]

who says i don't do contrary action now? my inability to set a solid boundary is what got me into a mess while married. a solid boundary now insures me of happy. healthy and safe in my life everyday.

Wait a minute, who should have to be told not to lie,cheat,steal or kill, it's a given. At what point did you tell your current H, "okay here's the line, now don't cross it." or do you wait till he crosses it to tell him. Point 2, how do you know current H is not lying, cheating, stealing, or killing? What's the difference between a great lier and an honest man, nothing because either get caught up in their lies, so both seem like they're truthful. It's your perception which makes them a lier, not whether they really lie or really tell the truth. Point 3, I'm am very happy to hear you are in a loving relationship, good for you. Your last husband was a dirtbag, and you do deserve better than him. I know you waiting for the but part, there isn't going to be one.

[2sunny]

Wait a minute, who should have to be told not to lie,cheat,steal or kill, it's a given. At what point did you tell your current H, "okay here's the line, now don't cross it." or do you wait till he crosses it to tell him. Point 2, how do you know current H is not lying, cheating, stealing, or killing? What's the difference between a great lier and an honest man, nothing because either get caught up in their lies, so both seem like they're truthful. It's your perception which makes them a lier, not whether they really lie or really tell the truth. Point 3, I'm am very happy to hear you are in a loving relationship, good for you. Your last husband was a dirtbag, and you do deserve better than him. I know you waiting for the but part, there isn't going to be one.

 

there is no current husband... not yet anyway, and may be never again.

 

i told my xH at the ten year mark - if you cheat again - we're done, no conversation - no nothing. at the 20 year mark - i found out about another woman. hence, the end, only a few simple words to allow him to understand that it was over.

 

my actions spoke more than any other words - we divorced... my perception would never "make" him a liar - he just did it... i knew when he lied because things never made sense - it was designed not to make sense. i was unwilling to put up with the lies and betrayal and i was done. did he want to come back? sure, we had a great M at the time. what made him cheat? he was extremely narcissistic. nothing would keep his mind from thinking that he should be able to have whatever and whomever he wanted.

 

he's remarried now, he just told my son yesterday he wished we were still married and that he loved me. :rolleyes:

[tnttim]

Sunny what part do you think you played in the break down of the marriage and him cheating on you? IMO when you cheat you fill a void your spouse had once filled.