Not coping, after breakup with CP man

January 5, 2010

Hi everyone,

It's been a month since he broke up with me, and I'm really not doing well. For a while I felt like I was getting better - I had lots of things to concentrate on (moving house, Christmas and New Year), and I was away from home with my family for a little while too. But now I'm back at work, back in the city where everywhere reminds me of him, and everything's back to normal, apart from the huge, bloody chunk he tore out of my chest. That's not healed at all.

I still don't know what happened. I feel blindsided by the whole thing. It was great for a year - really great for a year - and then suddenly he was acting like a jerk and then saying he wanted a few months' break. I talked him round, he was hugely grateful for me staying with him despite the way he was acting, things seemed to be getting better, he started really opening up about stuff - and then, blam, done, over, he still loved me but he didn't want to move in together, he couldn't handle an adult relationship, he was 'broken' and he 'needed to fix himself' and he needed to be alone to do it.

I don't understand how he could let such a great relationship go so easily. I don't understand the way he's acted since the breakup - first showering me with emails, and then sending me nothing at all from the day I decided (without even telling him!) I was going to go NC for a while because it was confusing me. How can he be so good at sensing when I'm going to back away over anything, and then backing away twice that distance before I can? He did this in a few different ways throughout the relationship, especially towards the end. How? What is he, psychic?

I don't want him back the way he is now, but God I want the sweet boyfriend he was for a year beforehand back. I want him back so much. And we've agreed we need time and space apart from each other for now but we'll talk about stuff between us again in the future, and he knows he has a problem and knows he needs to get professional help for it... but none of that's much comfort when I miss him as much as I do now.

It's just horrible. It's like everything hits me all over again when I wake up, and I spend the morning shellshocked and going over everything in my head, the afternoon trying to focus on other things and not letting the tears well up, the evening in a much better place, being determined to do what I need to do for me - NC with him, filling up my life with good happy things and great friends - and then I don't want to fall asleep because I know it'll start all over again in the morning.

I just want to stop crying. I want to be in a place where I can think 'okay, odds are he's going to come back in some way at some point, but I know right now that he needs professional help before he can even start being someone I could consider a relationship with, and I need to protect myself'. But it seems like every time I get there it only lasts a few hours - and then it's the next morning and I wake up thinking, what if he finds someone else? What if he just lied about loving me all through the relationship?

I'm seeing a counsellor this week, just to talk about it and see if they can help me get through this. I don't know what else to do.

January 5, 2010

I feel for you...I have been there too...You WILL overcome this...It will be day by day!!! Nothing will change that for a while. Just try your best and dont forget to EAT!!! Please stay healthy, Good Luck!!!

January 5, 2010

My Flickr contacts page this morning was full of updates on his photo stream. Pictures clearly taken on his way into work. But, taken on his way into work from the wrong direction. He lives the other way.

I noticed today that he'd removed me as a friend on Flickr as well. The only reason for doing that would be that there are friends-only pictures he does not want me to see.

I think I know why his contact dropped off so suddenly, as soon as I'd decided I needed to back away from the contact too. I think all this adds up to one thing: that he's found someone else, that he's currently with that someone else, and that he has moved on from me.

I am falling apart. I don't know what to do. Help.

January 5, 2010

Cut off ALL contact. Flickr, FB, evrerything!

Everytime you hear something or see something about him will make it all start all over again. Disappear from his life.

I know it is difficult but it is the BEST thing you can do for yourself. You need to protect and safeguard your feelings because God knows (and we know) you are fragile and a wreck right now.

Be strong honey (I know it is so cliched) but it's true. You might never know or understand why he's doing this. There is nothing left to do but accept and try to hang on there...TIGHT.

Has he been trying to contact you?

January 6, 2010

Hi Catseye,

First of all, my heart REALLY goes out to you and I do understand how very painful it is to be involved with a CP. They freak and bail when things are good, due to becoming attached, and the partner is left thinking WTF was that all about???????!!!!!! And. . . there's nothing you can do because the problem is with them. You asked if they come back. Often they do, once they've distanced enough to get rid of the anxiety and it hits how much they miss what you shared. BUT . . . this does resolve the problem unless they've done the hard work to overcome their CP. If they haven't resolved their issue, they come back in the same form and the pattern just repeats itself causing even more pain. Your other question was whether this can be helped and overcome. The answer is yes, BUT . . . only if they seek out professional help and really and truly want to do the work to face it and overcome it. So, it's likely they come back . . . unchanged. What you're really missing is what you see as the relationship potential . . . however . . . a healthy relationship with and an active CP has no potential. What you really need is to take all your energy expended on him and the relationship and reinvest it in you. Easier said than done . . . believe me . . . . I know!! But by doing this, you'll be strong enough when he does come back to deal with whatever the situation brings. NC helps tremendously with this process and it DOES get easier as time goes on.

My CP ex-bf has resurfaced 3 times in person since the breakup. The first time after 5 weeks NC, he showed up unexpectantly and I blasted him and told him how he sabotaged the relationship due to his anxiety, how much hurt he caused, asked him if he came round for an ego trip or to assuage his guilt among other things. He took full responsibility for sabotaging things, apologized, said he made a mistake, said he didn't know if giving me up was the right thing to do, yada, yada, yada. I was not receptive. I was in no way ready to see him and it really set my progress back and then I ended up feeling bad about my reaction to him. About 6 weeks after that with NC, because I felt bad for him AND because I still care about him, I reached out with a b-day card. We reconnected and got close BRIEFLY and then he freaked and ran again. A little over 2 months later again with NC, this holiday season, he rang me up and we got together. In a nutshell, he's STILL struggling with all of this. I see "tiny" progress. This recent time, I'm not so rattled because I'm not so invested in an outcome and my expectations are more realisitc. I know there is limited potential in this relationship. So . . . if he works through his issues and I'm still available and we build on what we have in this relationship that's great, but I'm not holding my life up betting on potential in this relationship.

January 6, 2010

Catseye AND Serena

I could write a long post giving you both sympathy because I know how shocking and painful it is to be on the receiving end of this behaviour.

This would be a temporary solace, however, that might end up doing you more harm than good. You do NOT want to be dwelling on how tragic this all is (despite the fact that it's hard to see it differently, at times). I'd rather give you some solid advice and suggest you read 'He's Scared, She's Scared' to get you asking why you're clinging onto these guys.

If you're not sure why, take acac's advice and get some help in finding the answer. Otherwise, you'll never learn how much love you truly deserve.

Take care, ladies. x

January 6, 2010

Thanks for all the support, guys I'm feeling a lot better now, after a good night out with some great friends I'm really lucky to have.

So in short: I've deleted him from anything remaining where I might see his name or status updates or anything crop up (I'd already deleted him from Facebook etc., but forgot about some things I use much less). I still owe him a big chunk of money and have some other practical issues to sort out, so I contacted him to suggest one brief conversation about the practical stuff - online or off, just let's get it sorted. (I know, I know, NC is NC, but it's a lot of money and I'm fed up with him saying 'oh, we'll sort that out later' any time I've mentioned it before.)

He replied to say talking about practical issues was fine, how about tonight at 8, but he didn't want to discuss anything serious or lengthy, so he was happy to talk only if it was just the practical issues I wanted to talk about. I spent four minutes being upset and then hit the roof, absolutely. Felt healthily furious with him, and it felt good. I didn't reply - went out dancing with my friends instead - and then sent him a really pissed-off email this morning. Not telling him everything I thought of him, fairly short and to the point, but pretty clearly annoyed all the same.

Since then he's apologised for the snappy email, and sent me another lengthy chatty email recommending various books/TV shows I'd like, mentioning that he'd felt really miserable all through new year (o-kay?), and signing off with a kiss (oooo-kay).

I can only conclude that Mixed Messages is an international competitive sport, and he's in training for the Olympic team.

Meanwhile, I continue to back away. It'll take a bit more than an apology and a kiss to stop that, honestly. But it is downright weird how he seems to want me out of his life, right up to the minute it looks like I'm going - and then he's all full of chattiness and signing off his emails with kisses. What the hell, dude.

January 6, 2010

Has he been trying to contact you?

Yes, quite a bit since the breakup, all via email and text; there was a point when he'd send me 5/6 emails a day. I backed away into NC for my own sanity when that got all mixed-messages and crazy-making. He'd sort of alternate between emailing me as if I was still his girlfriend, and being weird and distant and snappy, and it was driving me nuts.

They freak and bail when things are good, due to becoming attached, and the partner is left thinking WTF was that all about???????!!!!!!

Exactly! It was so so weird. Everything's great, everything's great, everything's great... ka-boom.

So . . . if he works through his issues and I'm still available and we build on what we have in this relationship that's great, but I'm not holding my life up betting on potential in this relationship.

That sounds like a good attitude, and one I'm working towards! My CP ex has got to the point of knowing he needs professional help to address the problems that are making his life miserable, but actually going ahead and getting that help, and then doing the work you need to fix it... well, who knows if he's there or if he'll ever get there. I do hope so, but there's nothing that anyone but him can do about it.

January 7, 2010

It's his birthday today. We were supposed to be going away together for a few days. Instead, I emailed him to sort out the ongoing practical issues - money owed, etc. - once and for all. I'd first suggested we talk in person or via MSN to sort these out, because it's tricky, and he sent a reply saying he was happy to talk, but "One proviso though - you've sent me several emails in the last month claiming to be neither lengthy nor big and serious, yet actually being quite a bit of both those things. As long as it's practical stuff though and really not that, that's fine."

Uh, no, no I haven't, actually. I brought up stuff about the relationship maybe twice, in the immediate aftermath of the breakup, when he was talking about it too; I haven't brought it up since. I suggested once that we could maybe meet to talk in person, he snapped that he wasn't ready, I said all right, no problem. So where the hell did that come from? Sheesh.

When I didn't reply to that, he sent me a really friendly, personal email, full of "You should watch this show - it's really your thing, you'd love it!", and signing off with a kiss. He never signs off with a kiss platonically. WHAT is he DOING, sweet God my head...

When I did reply, to bite his head off for his snappy email, he apologised for sending it and said he'd been having a really bad day. Uh okay.

I just don't get it. He's so sure he wants to talk 'in the future', but the single time I suggested - a month after the breakup! - that maybe we could meet for coffee, he stamped his feet, and he freaked out about an MSN chat just in case I might bring up more serious stuff. And then signing off an email with a kiss? If he doesn't want to be with me, why the hell not just let me go?

It's weird because on the one hand, I know he's a mess right now, I know he's dealing with depression, I know he's always been really bad at dealing with any kind of confrontation, but on the other hand - he does all this and he won't even bloody talk to me about anything more serious than what's on TV? How the hell does he think that's okay, at all? How the hell is that reasonable in his head? My friends and family are all "oh this is ridiculous, you need to talk to him in person and ask him what he's doing," but seriously, short of strapping him to a chair and injecting him with truth serum, I cannot make him talk, can I? So I quit trying - and he snaps at me for trying to make him talk anyway.

And it's so frustrating, because he was never like this. Never. He was so great. I can't believe he's turned into this person.

(Also - it doesn't help that some of my friends have jumped straight into he's-just-not-that-into-you mode and keep telling me "Things can't have been going that well if this happened!" and "You deserve someone who'll really love you!" and "He was just pretending to be a really nice guy all along!". Uh yeah, except that it was going really well, he loved me to pieces, and he'd have to be a goddamn sociopath to have faked everything for over a year just to mess with me. Oh, and "You deserve someone who wants to live with you, not someone who has to be forced into it against his will!" Yeah, if by 'forced into it against his will' you mean 'he suggested it, he planned it, he desperately wanted it, and then he had some kind of anxiety-attack meltdown when it came closer to happening'.

I'm beginning to think people do not understand this type of breakup until they've had it happen to them. This behaviour is so irrational and so against the way relationships usually work.)

Edited January 7, 2010 by Catseye8
More ranting.

January 7, 2010

Hi again Catseye,

It's all so weird and confusing and full of mixed signals because . . . it's because you're dealing with a mind that's weird and confused!!!

. . . he sent a reply saying he was happy to talk, but "One proviso though - you've sent me several emails in the last month claiming to be neither lengthy nor big and serious, yet actually being quite a bit of both those things. As long as it's practical stuff though and really not that, that's fine."

Uh, no, no I haven't, actually. I brought up stuff about the relationship maybe twice, in the immediate aftermath of the breakup, when he was talking about it too; I haven't brought it up since. I suggested once that we could maybe meet to talk in person, he snapped that he wasn't ready, I said all right, no problem. So where the hell did that come from? Sheesh..)

Been there and experienced it!! I think it's projection and a way of trying to feel in control when they're out of control emotionally. I've been through the SAME thing from the very beginning and now . . . I'm no longer WTF, I know it's just him.

When I didn't reply to that, he sent me a really friendly, personal email, full of "You should watch this show - it's really your thing, you'd love it!", and signing off with a kiss. He never signs off with a kiss platonically. WHAT is he DOING, sweet God my head.....)

It's classic, he tries to pull you in when you pull away. But the minute you pull close . . . he's going to distance you again. It's not normal and it is a MIND F, but . . . it's normal for a CP. Mine would do the whole distancing dance and then when I confronted, he'd act shocked as though nothing had happened.

I just don't get it. He's so sure he wants to talk 'in the future', but the single time I suggested - a month after the breakup! - that maybe we could meet for coffee, he stamped his feet, and he freaked out about an MSN chat just in case I might bring up more serious stuff. And then signing off an email with a kiss? If he doesn't want to be with me, why the hell not just let me go?

Ahhhhh . . . in a nutshell . . . YOU suggested it. . . meaning . . . he's not in control of it . . . therefore, he had to set the parameters to gain control of it. Remember that mass anxiety can make an individual feel "out of control." Get it??!! Your experience made me chuckle, although it's NOT funny by any means but it brought back memories. I remember all the mixed signals during the original breakup and thinking STOP ALREADY and wanting to send the you tube video of "50 ways to leave your lover." I even got a confusing xxoo e-mail less than 8 hours after a phone conversation that I and anyone normal would have thought was a breakup. After a time, I couldn't take it anymore and I finally said, "I'm going to give you what you want" to which he responded, "I'll always be here for you if you ever need me." I responded, "I have nothing more to say" and went NC and then he showed up on my doorstep 5 weeks later!!

It's weird because on the one hand, I know he's a mess right now, I know he's dealing with depression, I know he's always been really bad at dealing with any kind of confrontation, but on the other hand - he does all this and he won't even bloody talk to me about anything more serious than what's on TV? How the hell does he think that's okay, at all? How the hell is that reasonable in his head? My friends and family are all "oh this is ridiculous, you need to talk to him in person and ask him what he's doing," but seriously, short of strapping him to a chair and injecting him with truth serum, I cannot make him talk, can I? So I quit trying - and he snaps at me for trying to make him talk anyway.

Look, it's NOT reasonable. He's NOT reasonable. He's depressed. He's a mess. You said so yourself. His mind is twisted. And no, you can't make him talk or do anything else for that matter. He controls him, and you control you. The only thing you can do is change your reaction to his irrational behavior and understand that you're not dealing with a person who is not capable of sustaining a healthy romantic relationship and he may never be unless he gets some serious help.

And it's so frustrating, because he was never like this. Never. He was so great. I can't believe he's turned into this person.

Whoooooooa!!!!! Oh yes he was like this!!! You just never saw it, that's all. Believe me, he didn't morph into this overnight. The hard part with CPs is they begin the relationship seemingly "all in" and then their weirdness comes out when they start to feel a certain level of attachment anxiety and emotionally out of control. (The level of attachment that is tolerable varies by individual). They freak and try to gain control by distancing, then drawing close, then distancing, then drawing close . . . It's quite a roller coaster ride and is utterly confusing when you don't know what you're dealing with. I bet if you really look at the relationship, there were some red flags, they may have been unusual red flags and not something you experienced before, but I bet there were some things that happened where you thought, hmmmmmm, that's a little odd.

(Also - it doesn't help that some of my friends have jumped straight into he's-just-not-that-into-you mode and keep telling me "Things can't have been going that well if this happened!" and "You deserve someone who'll really love you!" and "He was just pretending to be a really nice guy all along!". Uh yeah, except that it was going really well, he loved me to pieces, and he'd have to be a goddamn sociopath to have faked everything for over a year just to mess with me. Oh, and "You deserve someone who wants to live with you, not someone who has to be forced into it against his will!" Yeah, if by 'forced into it against his will' you mean 'he suggested it, he planned it, he desperately wanted it, and then he had some kind of anxiety-attack meltdown when it came closer to happening'.

I'm beginning to think people do not understand this type of breakup until they've had it happen to them. This behaviour is so irrational and so against the way relationships usually work.)

I can SO relate!! I've had friends and family come up with all the classics, but none of them fit in this situation. The relationship with a CP is very "unusual" and "weird" to say the least. It's so frustrating when people don't understand!! Most people DON'T understand unless they've lived through it. But, in the end . . . it doesn't really matter if they understand. What matters is that you understand that what you're dealing with is someone who is currently incapable of engaging in a healthy romantic relationship. Even if he was to commit right now and you live together or whatever, he's still going to be behaving in this way UNLESS he gets some serious help to deal with his issues. And . . . he will be this way in any future relationships without serious help. I know it's sad. It's REALLY sad to be in love with such a tortured soul but the change can only come from him. Your love for him alone and understanding of this behavior won't help him, it will only hurt you. The question is, how much do you want to invest betting on the potential of this relationship? If you go NC it will be easier to get your head clear, decide on some boundaries for yourself as to what you will and will not tolerate, and decide on what you need, want and deserve in a relationship and don't settle for less. Be strong!! It DOES get a lot easier with time and some distance.

January 7, 2010

Catseye

It's ok. It does feel like you're going mad. But you're not. But he is (and has been for a while). But leave him to it.

Don't do the CP dance with him. You owe him some money you'd like to pay him, yes? Email him with your suggestion of how it's going to be paid back and then stick to it. If the arrangement doesn't work for him, he'll have to be mature enough to resolve it, won't he?

Then LEAVE IT ALONE, go NC and start healing. You can and you will, if you let yourself.

Btw, go easy on your friends. They're not actually wrong with what they're saying. Yes, he convinced himself he was a 'good guy' and tried to make it work but he isn't capable of a 'real' relatiosnhip. He knew he had CP issues before he dated you (he may not know what it's called but he sure knows he gets the jitters easily - didn't work on that much though, did he?) so he WAS actually, pretending to be a good guy, pretty much.

What you're doing, by getting upset by their comments, is being too harsh on yourself. It feels as though you should've known this, should've seen it coming, made it worse, etc. Well, you did your very best, I'm sure - so just leave the mental torture alone. What it is your responsibility (to yourself) to do now, is to learn about CP's and how not to get dazzled by their tricks again.

Read the book, Google the condition, begin to heal (use a Susan Anderson book - really helps at a time like this), consider you may well be a passive CP yourself and understand what they are all saying: STAY AWAY FROM HIM.

I was you, just over 5 months ago. I can't believe I'm me, now. x

January 7, 2010

Hi Serena, and thank you! Wow, I can't tell you how good it feels to talk to someone who's experienced this before.

I've been through the SAME thing from the very beginning and now . . . I'm no longer WTF, I know it's just him.

Ha! Yeah, that's probably the best way to look at it.

I'm trying to go with an approach I learned a couple of years ago, when me and my housemate lived next door to the weirdest family in existence (or at least in Britain). The stuff they did was just so bizarre. Anyway, after about six months of sitting round the kitchen table going "but but but WHAT?" at each other, my housemate suggested that since we were clearly never going to find an explanation, we should just act like we had one already for the sake of our own sanity. So after that, any weird thing our neighbours did, we'd just look at each other and say "Ah. That explains it." Worked a treat

It's classic, he tries to pull you in when you pull away. But the minute you pull close . . . he's going to distance you again. It's not normal and it is a MIND F, but . . . it's normal for a CP. Mine would do the whole distancing dance and then when I confronted, he'd act shocked as though nothing had happened.

That is the only reason I've not called this guy on his messing me around yet - because I really really think he'd just go "What? No I'm not!", and that would drive me mad. So my current tactic is to just roll my eyes and carry on with my day, although obviously that's easier some times than others...

I remember all the mixed signals during the original breakup and thinking STOP ALREADY and wanting to send the you tube video of "50 ways to leave your lover." I even got a confusing xxoo e-mail less than 8 hours after a phone conversation that I and anyone normal would have thought was a breakup.

It is so bizarre, isn't it? I'm long past trying to draw any coherent narrative out of wtf he's doing, because it's not like even he has any idea, but it's still so difficult to accept in my own head that someone can make so little sense. "Go away! No wait, wait, I'm still here, remember me? No, go AWAY! Argh where have you gone, come back!" Um... right... o-kay... At any rate, it's comforting to know that I'm not the one losing my mind here.

The only thing you can do is change your reaction to his irrational behavior and understand that you're not dealing with a person who is not capable of sustaining a healthy romantic relationship and he may never be unless he gets some serious help.

Yep, exactly. Best thing I can do for myself is to get into a place where what he does, now or in the future, affects me less and less and less. My tactic right now is to surround myself with good people and fill up my life with good things that I'm doing just for me, and this will also be the best defence against anything that happens in the future - if he turns up on my doorstep like yours did, I want to be in a good and stable place for myself so I can think clearly about what I want to do, and if he phones me in six months to say he's getting married to my best friend or something, then hey, I'll have a good life anyway and be far more cushioned against anything from him that could hurt me.

At the moment I think he actually is getting counselling, which surprised me a bit (a scary emotional thing he did not run away from, MY GOD) but is a good thing regardless.

Whoooooooa!!!!! Oh yes he was like this!!! You just never saw it, that's all. Believe me, he didn't morph into this overnight.

Yes, that's true! I think it's harder to see because the way he acted towards me was so totally different - the man I loved would never have mixed-signalled me into infinity. But that was a time in his life when he'd managed to temporarily cram all of his issues and problems into a shut-up little box somewhere in his mind, so he was bound to act differently to the way he would when they all came spilling out.

I bet if you really look at the relationship, there were some red flags, they may have been unusual red flags and not something you experienced before, but I bet there were some things that happened where you thought, hmmmmmm, that's a little odd.

I've been going back over it in my head, especially with the benefit of a lot of stuff on CP behaviour I've found via Google, and honestly I can't see a huge amount. There wasn't really much push-pull stuff in the relationship until this all hit, he was absolutely enthusiastic about including me in his life, etc etc. But, there were some things that seemed weird. Like the first time he suggested we move in together and then changed his mind - the changing his mind wasn't the weird thing, so much as the weird revisionism about what he'd said, that was just crazy-making. That was odd. And there were a few other things that screamed out "I have had bad things happen to me in the past that I have not really dealt with!", but I just figured he'd tell me in time. Oh, well...

What matters is that you understand that what you're dealing with is someone who is currently incapable of engaging in a healthy romantic relationship. Even if he was to commit right now and you live together or whatever, he's still going to be behaving in this way UNLESS he gets some serious help to deal with his issues.

Yes. I'm at least glad that if he was going to freak out like this, he did it before we moved in together rather than after - that would have sucked even worse. I'm glad he is getting help, and I'm not even kidding myself that I don't hope in time he'll be capable of the kind of relationship he wants to have and will want to have that with me, but there is no way of knowing that and I really can't hang around on the sidelines biting my nails and waiting.

decide on what you need, want and deserve in a relationship and don't settle for less.

One of the things I've changed my mind on since the immediate post-breakup oh-my-God-what-happened-to-my-boyfriend hell is the way I reacted to him going all weird for the six weeks leading up to the breakup. I was hugely confused and hurt, but I was also angry, and I set down ultimatums - I want to make this work, but if you don't get your act together/stop being a selfish brat/keep your promises about moving in together at a time of your choosing, ffs, I am leaving you.

I felt absolutely awful about that when he left me - 'oh my God, I should never have set down ultimatums, of course he'd leave!' - but now I'm thinking, no, that was the right thing to do. I knew what I wanted from a relationship, made sure he knew it, and made sure that if he couldn't give it to me I was gone. Really didn't expect him to jump ship first ('you can't fire me, I quit!'), but... control again, I suppose.

January 7, 2010

You owe him some money you'd like to pay him, yes? Email him with your suggestion of how it's going to be paid back and then stick to it. If the arrangement doesn't work for him, he'll have to be mature enough to resolve it, won't he?

Yep, did exactly that. Stayed polite, but said: okay, I plan to pay you back this way in these instalments, let me know if this doesn't suit and we'll work something else out. I don't see him objecting, though.

Thanks for the advice. It is sound I'm not at a place where I can give up on the possibilities of a future with him yet, though, sad though that sounds to say; pretty sure he's currently in counselling to deal with his messed-up-ness, and I love him enough to be curious to see what comes out the other side of that process, if he can go through all the hard mental work. Sigh.

I'm seeing a counsellor myself tomorrow, anyway, and hoping they can give me some good coping strategies to keep my own health and sanity safe.

Btw, go easy on your friends. They're not actually wrong with what they're saying.

Well... they are and they aren't. They're not wrong that he's seriously messing (and has messed) me around and that he completely bears the responsibility for that. I don't think having psychological problems of whatever variety lets him off the hook for that - saying it doesn't matter because he's got problems would be like saying "Well, the dog had rabies, so it doesn't matter that it bit me!". But on the other hand, I don't think they're right that he's deliberately messing with me now, and I don't think they're right that he just didn't actually care about me. I think he's a mess.

(he may not know what it's called but he sure knows he gets the jitters easily - didn't work on that much though, did he?)

Oh, but he did! *rolls eyes* Get this: his method of working on that was to fall head-over-heels in love with me and integrate me into his life in a much more significant way than he'd done with previous gfs, thinking that if he was in the Right Relationship all his problems would be fixed. Oh well done, dude, THAT worked a treat. Sigh.

That's actually one of the things I went yelling mad at him for when he broke up with me - how dare he let me think everything was okay when he knew he had problems that were going to affect me. I don't care if he was kidding himself at the same time, that is not okay.

consider you may well be a passive CP yourself

I've thought about this - seems to be common advice on online CP stuff - but I don't think it fits, really. I've had times in my past when I've not been interested in serious relationships, but I've never had a pattern of ending up with men like this, and this man managed to keep his CP tendencies fairly well hidden for most of the relationship. Which is why his behaviour hit me totally out of the blue... and wow, I wouldn't wish this kind of headspinning on my worst enemy.

'Men Who Can't Love' and 'He's Scared, She's Scared' are currently on their way from Amazon, though, since I've read some great testimonies online about how they helped other people through a breakup like this. And it'll give me something to read even when I can't get my mind off all this...

Edited January 7, 2010 by Catseye8

January 7, 2010

Hi Serena, and thank you! Wow, I can't tell you how good it feels to talk to someone who's experienced this before.

I'm glad I can validate your experience!! I know it's not easy. There was a group of about 4 or 5 of us posting on LS about dealing with this issue about 4 months or so ago. It may be helpful to you in some way to read some of the threads.

I'm trying to go with an approach I learned a couple of years ago, when me and my housemate lived next door to the weirdest family in existence (or at least in Britain). The stuff they did was just so bizarre. Anyway, after about six months of sitting round the kitchen table going "but but but WHAT?" at each other, my housemate suggested that since we were clearly never going to find an explanation, we should just act like we had one already for the sake of our own sanity. So after that, any weird thing our neighbours did, we'd just look at each other and say "Ah. That explains it." Worked a treat

I'm glad to see that your humor is intact!! It's really one of the best ways to get through this!!!

That is the only reason I've not called this guy on his messing me around yet - because I really really think he'd just go "What? No I'm not!", and that would drive me mad. So my current tactic is to just roll my eyes and carry on with my day, although obviously that's easier some times than others...

The result that I got almost every time I called the weird behavior out was deafening silence, shock and awe, and a response of, "I have absolutely no idea of where any of this is coming from!!!!" I remember one phone conversation where I confronted him. The silence was such that it seemed as though he'd stopped breathing. I waited and I waited and I waited for a response and I finally said, "Are you still there????" And then . . . finally . . . an exasperated and flabergasted voice comes through and says, "Yes, and I have absolutely no idea of where any of this is coming from!!!!" Due to our conversation prior to that phone call I thought to myself, the man MUST have amnesia!! One of the few times that he REALLY looked into the mirror that I held up was the first time he showed up post breakup after 5 weeks NC. I won't go into the details of all that I said but I was firm and unwilling to allow ANY revisionist history or BS.

It is so bizarre, isn't it? I'm long past trying to draw any coherent narrative out of wtf he's doing, because it's not like even he has any idea, but it's still so difficult to accept in my own head that someone can make so little sense. "Go away! No wait, wait, I'm still here, remember me? No, go AWAY! Argh where have you gone, come back!" Um... right... o-kay... At any rate, it's comforting to know that I'm not the one losing my mind here....

NOOOOOOOOO!! You're not losing your mind, you've just been losing yourself by trying to make sense out of the relationship through his mind, but you're finding your way out. He's still stuck living in his own mind and believe me, he's in much more angst than you are!! Can you imagine instinctively behaving in this way and then trying to figure your own self out and justify to yourself why you're doing what you're doing????!!!!

Yep, exactly. Best thing I can do for myself is to get into a place where what he does, now or in the future, affects me less and less and less. My tactic right now is to surround myself with good people and fill up my life with good things that I'm doing just for me, and this will also be the best defence against anything that happens in the future - if he turns up on my doorstep like yours did, I want to be in a good and stable place for myself so I can think clearly about what I want to do, and if he phones me in six months to say he's getting married to my best friend or something, then hey, I'll have a good life anyway and be far more cushioned against anything from him that could hurt me.

This is an EXCELLENT direction to take!!

At the moment I think he actually is getting counselling, which surprised me a bit (a scary emotional thing he did not run away from, MY GOD) but is a good thing regardless.

This is good!! It's no guarantee of change since it still depends on the areas he's willing to look at and explore but. . . without it . . . the odds for change are much less.

Yes, that's true! I think it's harder to see because the way he acted towards me was so totally different - the man I loved would never have mixed-signalled me into infinity. But that was a time in his life when he'd managed to temporarily cram all of his issues and problems into a shut-up little box somewhere in his mind, so he was bound to act differently to the way he would when they all came spilling out.

I've been going back over it in my head, especially with the benefit of a lot of stuff on CP behaviour I've found via Google, and honestly I can't see a huge amount. There wasn't really much push-pull stuff in the relationship until this all hit, he was absolutely enthusiastic about including me in his life, etc etc. But, there were some things that seemed weird. Like the first time he suggested we move in together and then changed his mind - the changing his mind wasn't the weird thing, so much as the weird revisionism about what he'd said, that was just crazy-making. That was odd. And there were a few other things that screamed out "I have had bad things happen to me in the past that I have not really dealt with!", but I just figured he'd tell me in time. Oh, well....

Ahhhhhhhhh, the revisionism!!! Yes!! I can relate. I've seen the revisionism occur all in the course of a same and single paragraph uttered by him without any response from me, but the one that stands out in my mind is:

Him: "We'll be together."

Me: "That's great! We'll be together." (hug)

Then he immediately said something to sabotage, a short sentence, I can't remember exactly what.

Me: "You said we'd be together and now you're sabotaging it."

Him: "I didn't say we'll be together. I said the only way you'll be happy is if we're together."

Me: Silence, because I know what I heard.

Him: "You don't really want to talk about the relationship, do you."

Yes. I'm at least glad that if he was going to freak out like this, he did it before we moved in together rather than after - that would have sucked even worse. I'm glad he is getting help, and I'm not even kidding myself that I don't hope in time he'll be capable of the kind of relationship he wants to have and will want to have that with me, but there is no way of knowing that and I really can't hang around on the sidelines biting my nails and waiting.

You betcha!!!!! Can you imagine having invested even more and then having the CPism rear its ugly head!!!!

One of the things I've changed my mind on since the immediate post-breakup oh-my-God-what-happened-to-my-boyfriend hell is the way I reacted to him going all weird for the six weeks leading up to the breakup. I was hugely confused and hurt, but I was also angry, and I set down ultimatums - I want to make this work, but if you don't get your act together/stop being a selfish brat/keep your promises about moving in together at a time of your choosing, ffs, I am leaving you.

I felt absolutely awful about that when he left me - 'oh my God, I should never have set down ultimatums, of course he'd leave!' - but now I'm thinking, no, that was the right thing to do. I knew what I wanted from a relationship, made sure he knew it, and made sure that if he couldn't give it to me I was gone. Really didn't expect him to jump ship first ('you can't fire me, I quit!'), but... control again, I suppose.

I don't see these as ultimatums, I see these as clearly communicating your expectations and setting healthy boundaries for yourself. Without doing this, you'd have put yourself in a position where your expectations were of little importance. After all, if someone agrees to something, the expectation is that they follow through unless they have a darn good reason for why they can't!! And in matters of the heart . . . this is really important.

"'you can't fire me, I quit!'" I think this is often key to what's underneath it all, a fear of rejection and abandonment. In other words . . . "to deal with my subconscious or conscious fear of rejection/abandonment, I'm going to jump ship first so I won't be rejected/abandoned.

Be strong and keep your chin up!!

January 7, 2010

I can only conclude that Mixed Messages is an international competitive sport, and he's in training for the Olympic team.

Nice line :-) I can feel a sense of humour in you and that's going to be one of the things that gets you through this.

Don't let him twist the knife ...

January 8, 2010

I just wanted to chime in and say I went through the exact same thing. Met a guy, we had so much in common it was scary (we had the exact same -- and quite unusual -- first car, I showed him a film I made of an out-of-the-way amphitheatre in a small town in another state and it turned out to be where his band played their first gig, etc.) I was CERTAIN we were made for each other. I thought he was too. We were together for a blissful year, and then one morning he dumped me for not being a musician (like he is.) Seriously, that was the only reason I was ever given. He walked out the door and I never saw him again. That was 2.5 years ago and my head is still really messed up over it. CP guys are their own special breed, to be sure.

All I can say is that IT'S NOT YOU.

January 8, 2010

I'm glad I can validate your experience!! I know it's not easy. There was a group of about 4 or 5 of us posting on LS about dealing with this issue about 4 months or so ago. It may be helpful to you in some way to read some of the threads.

Yep - I've been reading through all the past threads on the subject I can find, and wow it's amazing how many of us have been through this weird, horrible experience! I've never encountered anything like it before. I used to think 'commitment phobia' was a psychobabble way of saying 'doesn't want to get married when there's wild oats to be sown' - I would totally have believed people who said all 'commitment phobes' just haven't met the right person yet. I had no idea. Read someone say (possibly an old thread here?) that with true commitment phobes, saying 'oh, they just haven't met the right person yet' is like saying 'arachnophobes just haven't met the right spider yet'.

What is kind of sad is that it sounds like a lot of CP people might even believe it themselves. Mine did, I think. And since I was The Right Person, everything was going to be fine, 'cause it felt great and he'd never been that interested in planning marriage and babies before, he'd never integrated any girlfriend that much into his life before, he'd never felt so content or so happy with anyone before, etc etc (and I'm sure some of that was conveniently patchy memory on his part, but I had his friends and family tell me he was totally different with me too) - and then, blam, this hit. Kind of glad that he got to the "oh ****, it's me, I'm messed up" stage at least, and I didn't have to put up with the fault-finding and stuff other people have talked about. That would have been even worse.

One of the few times that he REALLY looked into the mirror that I held up was the first time he showed up post breakup after 5 weeks NC. I won't go into the details of all that I said but I was firm and unwilling to allow ANY revisionist history or BS.

Good for you! And good for you for not throwing him over a cliff with that revisionism in a single paragraph, tempting though that must have been I really really hope I can get to a place where I would be confident enough to call my CP ex on his behaviour. Right now I still feel like it would mess with my own head too much if he denied it all (as I'm sure he would). Like, now, I know - when I'm thinking about it rationally - that he's giving me a bunch of mixed messages and keeping all his 'safety nets' with me in place because he doesn't want to think I'm gone for good. But there's a little insecure voice inside my head going "No, he's totally through with you, he's not giving any mixed messages, you're just in denial!" Shut up, insecure little voice.

One bit of progress I made with this was when he was dragging his feet like crazy over returning my stuff. He kept giving really plausible reasons for not sorting it out - oh sorry I hadn't checked my email for a while, oh sorry I don't know what my plans are for that weekend, oh sorry I need to ask my friend if he'll give me a lift, oh sorry I'm still thinking of the best way to sort it out - and it all sounded so reasonable. At first. And then, after a while, I realised that no matter how reasonable each excuse sounded on its own, they were still excuses - he just didn't want to sort out giving my stuff back yet, and I wasn't having that. The stuff came back

He's still stuck living in his own mind and believe me, he's in much more angst than you are!! Can you imagine instinctively behaving in this way and then trying to figure your own self out and justify to yourself why you're doing what you're doing????!!!!

It must be AWFUL. If I was less mad at him I'd even feel sorry, because how bad must it be to live a life where all this doubt and angst and panic hit you because things are going well?

This is good!! It's no guarantee of change since it still depends on the areas he's willing to look at and explore but. . . without it . . . the odds for change are much less.

Yep definitely. Given how difficult he finds it to talk about serious/emotional things that scare him, I have no idea how much he's going to get out of it - he has a huge pile of bad stuff to process, childhood/family/bereavement issues. But it's a good start.

I don't see these as ultimatums, I see these as clearly communicating your expectations and setting healthy boundaries for yourself.

Plus - if we end up getting back together, it's not going to be because he thinks I'm prepared to put up with XYZ from him just to stay in the relationship. And if we don't, I'll still know for myself that I'm capable of saying "I really love you, but I need this and this from a relationship and if you can't give me that I'm walking."

After all, if someone agrees to something, the expectation is that they follow through unless they have a darn good reason for why they can't!! And in matters of the heart . . . this is really important.

Oh my God, his 'reasons'. That was driving me mad at the end. Why are you changing your mind about living together, which you suggested? "I'm not ready yet." Uh okay, but you were ready three months ago, so what changed? "Oh, nothing changed, I just felt ready then but now I don't." Right... so what does "not ready" mean to you? Do you need more time, more confidence about the situation, better plans, what? "I don't know." wtf.

Extra-frustrating was that he was even working on this stuff before he left, and he honestly seemed to be getting better. He started being able to have serious conversations in which he actually talked (big move, since according to one of his exes he used to just get up and leave the room at any sign of confrontation), he started really trying to work out what he was feeling, he even started saying things like "I'm sorry I panic and run whenever things scare me - I'm trying to stop doing that" or "I think I'm scared of moving in because if I lose my own space I won't have anywhere to run away to if things get bad." (Um weird - what's going to go bad? - but honestly I think that's what was going through his mind.)

"'you can't fire me, I quit!'" I think this is often key to what's underneath it all, a fear of rejection and abandonment. In other words . . . "to deal with my subconscious or conscious fear of rejection/abandonment, I'm going to jump ship first so I won't be rejected/abandoned.

That is pretty much EXACTLY what he said to me after he sabotaged stuff and we almost broke up the first time (completely out of the blue, 6 weeks before the actual split). "I thought it would definitely go bad and you'd come to your senses and leave me, so I think I was trying to be in control of that." Whaaaaaaaaaat. And he was always terrified I'd leave him too. I remember saying once "It's almost like you think that any time I'm annoyed at you, I'll leave," and him saying "Well, yes," like it's obvious. Not for normal people!

Saw a counsellor today. Cried a bit She said it sounds like he had some kind of emotional breakdown with the depression and bereavement issues he's been dealing with, and that it just brought all this stuff to the surface. She repeated that it wasn't my fault, I can't blame myself, and that I couldn't have fixed him (which I do know but it's always good to be reminded of!). Said that I seemed to be coping well given the situation, which... hmm.

The annoying - She did tell me that he was at least being honest with his acknowledgement that he couldn't handle an adult relationship right now and that he needed to work on his problems, and that "in a way" that was admirable.

The good - She totally agrees that he's not been treating me fairly since and that depression/breakdown/whatever is not an excuse for that. She said "Keeping all these links with you is his safety net" and "The kind of relationship he wants with you at the moment is all on his terms - he knows you're there to lean on, but you don't get to ask anything from him, and that's one-sided and unfair." She agreed that my decision to back away and give myself time and space was the best one (although she warned me that he might start acting panicky if he sensed me doing that).

She gave me homework: write down two or three reasons why a relationship with him in the future might be good, and two or three reasons why it might not. Hmmm.

January 8, 2010

and then one morning he dumped me for not being a musician (like he is.) Seriously, that was the only reason I was ever given.

That is just... a whole different PLANET of strange. How very, very odd. I can totally see how hard and horrible that must have been to deal with.

January 8, 2010

We were together for a blissful year, and then one morning he dumped me for not being a musician (like he is.) Seriously, that was the only reason I was ever given. He walked out the door and I never saw him again. That was 2.5 years ago and my head is still really messed up over it. CP guys are their own special breed, to be sure.

All I can say is that IT'S NOT YOU.

Hi Sedwick,

I'm SO SORRY this happened to you. It's really tough and very difficult to find closure when the rug gets pulled out from under you and you have no idea of "why." One thing I've noticed is the tendency, when dumped, to idealize the person and the relationship. I don't know why this is, but it is, and it's common. I think within a CP relationship, it can be even more difficult because there's nothing substantive to put yout finger on as to "why." But . . . truly looking at these relationships with CPs . . . there are always things that were/are off. Maybe they aren't the typical issues but there were/are issues. Sometimes in letting go it helps to make a list of those things, those issues and focus there. I think getting the person and the relationship off the pedestral and looking at the situation realistically is an important step in letting go and moving on from this nonsense. And in a nutshell, that's what it is . . . constant NONSENSE!!

PS Congratulations on the up and coming publication of your book!!

January 8, 2010

Thanks Serena. I'm very excited for it! I'm going through a bit of the blues now that it's done, like, what do you do when you actually ACHIEVE your wildest dream? Then what? I'm trying to figure that one out.

Catseye, it's scary how much our guys sound alike!! Especially the thing about him clamming up and saying nothing when there was anything emotional to be discussed. If there was the slightest conflict and I tried to talk to my ex about it, it was like some kind of wall went up and he just checked out. I can remember saying to him, "Would you be willing to respond to me?" and seeing in his eyes that he was completely baffled. It was almost like he turned into another person in those moments. Very bizarre and creepy.

Also, the thing about "quitting before you can fire me" is very familiar. I remember once I was telling him about something I had to do that I didn't want to, but I couldn't quit because I had committed. He said, "I love to quit!" and went on to explain that he had no problem at all walking away from things he didn't want to do. It was a sign -- one to which I should have paid attention -- that his maturity level was seriously lacking. I mean, what adult doesn't occasionally have to do something they don't feel like doing? It's part of being a reliable human being and building confidence in your ability to persevere.

When we broke up, I said something to him about being willing to fight for our relationship, and he said, "I don't like to fight. Whenever there's a sign of a fight, I run." I had to explain that fighting FOR me and fighting WITH me were two different things, but I don't think he got it.

I think what you said is true -- it must be such a private hell living like that, being afraid of any kind of commitment, retreating when things are going well. It often feels like he must have forgotten all about me; he completely stopped speaking to me, so I have no reason to think otherwise. I am not allowed in his life in any way because I don't have the exact same career as his. I always thought maybe he'd come around at some point, but nope, he vanished and that was that. The last two and a half years have been all about trying to find some shred of confidence in myself even though I'm just a writer and dancer. I'd love it if I could be happy about my book being approved, but instead all I can think is, "Yeah, but it's not music, it doesn't really mean anything. I'm still not special enough for him."

To me this all feels very real and very true, but I hope that in reading it you'll see how ridiculous it is and maybe feel a little better about what happened to you.

January 8, 2010

Catseye,

I'm SO proud of you!! You're making such huge strides and at lightning speed!!!

I would totally have believed people who said all 'commitment phobes' just haven't met the right person yet. I had no idea. Read someone say (possibly an old thread here?) that with true commitment phobes, saying 'oh, they just haven't met the right person yet' is like saying 'arachnophobes just haven't met the right spider yet'..

Good for you! And good for you for not throwing him over a cliff with that revisionism in a single paragraph, tempting though that must have been I really really hope I can get to a place where I would be confident enough to call my CP ex on his behaviour.

You'll get there, and you'll know when you're ready. I called him out quite alot on his nonsense during the relationship. And with the breakup, I made him very clear that there was NO WAY I'd shift this into a friendship (that's what he wanted) and he dared not even ask about a FWB thing because he knew there's NO WAY I'd ever go down that road. The door was never open on any of that nonsense. But . . . I didn't call him out on his recent resurfacing and now I think I need to. He calls over the holidays all frantic to see me, requests moving the dates closer twice in order to see me earlier and spends much much more time with me than originally planned, arrives with roses, yada yada yada, calls twice on the day of his arrival back home (he lives at a little distance) and then . . . it's been radio silence since a week and a half ago. And then yesterday . . . in my e-mail, his photo arrives as one of my online dating matches which means he's just now reactivated his online dating profile and AFTER we saw each other. Emotionally, it makes me feel rejected and used but logically, I know he's freaked and running again. It's my own fault, really, because I should have established the boundaries clearly and firmly prior to agreeing to see him, or maybe not have agreed to see him at all. I thought I was removed enough to handle it and could play it by ear. I guess not. I really need to re-establish a firm boundary with him. I need to establish that he can't just waltz into my life in the context of wanting to re-establish the relationship whenever he's so moved and then just waltz out, disconnect from me and the real world, and run back to the safe fantasy world of virtual dating and "distant" relationships. I don't care if it's CP or arachnophobia, ligyrophobia (fear of balloons popping) or what it is, it's selfish and disrespectful and I won't have it. I don't want him to be of the thinking that this relationship is a DVD movie where he can push "play" and then "pause" and then "play" at will. I need to let him know where I stand, what my expectations are, and then tell him to stay away from me and not to resurface in any way again unless he KNOWS he can meet my expectations of consistency and respect. Now, my head is spinning because I have NO IDEA of what he had in mind resurfacing in this way. I don't like it and I won't tolerate it!! I don't like the context of the relationship being left as open as a result of his recent visit given his subsequent lack of consistent contact and reactivation of his dating profile. HELP!! Since his resurfacing he's too much back in my head again!! I thought I was stronger than I am!!

he just didn't want to sort out giving my stuff back yet, and I wasn't having that. The stuff came back

In my experience, they try to hang onto something of yours, or have you hang onto something of theirs to give them an excuse to reconnect. I packed his stuff up and mailed back stat, the very next day after the breakup.

Plus - if we end up getting back together, it's not going to be because he thinks I'm prepared to put up with XYZ from him just to stay in the relationship. And if we don't, I'll still know for myself that I'm capable of saying "I really love you, but I need this and this from a relationship and if you can't give me that I'm walking."

OK now, this is KEY!! Look what just happened to me and I'm pretty removed from it. . . or so I thought!! Get really secure and firm in your expectations and boundaries and DON'T BUDGE unless he proves to you he's changed. Georgia Girl (from LS) was the only one who was able to successfully re-establish a healthy relationship with her CP bf and it was only because . . . he was getting counseling . . . she held firm with her boundaries and expectations . . . she made him prove that he was making progress and didn't jump back in. She forced him to give her the assurance she needed in order to take a chance with him again.

Oh my God, his 'reasons'. That was driving me mad at the end. Why are you changing your mind about living together, which you suggested? "I'm not ready yet." Uh okay, but you were ready three months ago, so what changed? "Oh, nothing changed, I just felt ready then but now I don't." Right... so what does "not ready" mean to you? Do you need more time, more confidence about the situation, better plans, what? "I don't know." wtf.

Extra-frustrating was that he was even working on this stuff before he left, and he honestly seemed to be getting better. He started being able to have serious conversations in which he actually talked (big move, since according to one of his exes he used to just get up and leave the room at any sign of confrontation), he started really trying to work out what he was feeling, he even started saying things like "I'm sorry I panic and run whenever things scare me - I'm trying to stop doing that" or "I think I'm scared of moving in because if I lose my own space I won't have anywhere to run away to if things get bad." (Um weird - what's going to go bad? - but honestly I think that's what was going through his mind.)
That is pretty much EXACTLY what he said to me after he sabotaged stuff and we almost broke up the first time (completely out of the blue, 6 weeks before the actual split). "I thought it would definitely go bad and you'd come to your senses and leave me, so I think I was trying to be in control of that." Whaaaaaaaaaat. And he was always terrified I'd leave him too. I remember saying once "It's almost like you think that any time I'm annoyed at you, I'll leave," and him saying "Well, yes," like it's obvious. Not for normal people!

Been there!!! Mine was insistent that we had to decide on "long term." We had an established relationship that was monogamous and we weren't dating other people. I did not understand why he was making such a big deal and getting so frantic about the need to either attach the LT label or breakup. To me, the label meant nothing. Then he went into his whole lunacy of "I can't believe you want to continue because what if it deteriorates and I love you and you're awesome." I said, "Normal people end relationships WHEN they deteriorate, not because of WHAT IF. Then it became, "Sure, it's great now but what if six months down the road . . . what if??!! . . . what if??!!. . . what if??!! Sounds kinda familiar huh

Saw a counsellor today. Cried a bit She said it sounds like he had some kind of emotional breakdown with the depression and bereavement issues he's been dealing with, and that it just brought all this stuff to the surface. She repeated that it wasn't my fault, I can't blame myself, and that I couldn't have fixed him (which I do know but it's always good to be reminded of!). Said that I seemed to be coping well given the situation, which... hmm.

The annoying - She did tell me that he was at least being honest with his acknowledgement that he couldn't handle an adult relationship right now and that he needed to work on his problems, and that "in a way" that was admirable.

The good - She totally agrees that he's not been treating me fairly since and that depression/breakdown/whatever is not an excuse for that. She said "Keeping all these links with you is his safety net" and "The kind of relationship he wants with you at the moment is all on his terms - he knows you're there to lean on, but you don't get to ask anything from him, and that's one-sided and unfair." She agreed that my decision to back away and give myself time and space was the best one (although she warned me that he might start acting panicky if he sensed me doing that).

She gave me homework: write down two or three reasons why a relationship with him in the future might be good, and two or three reasons why it might not. Hmmm.

Good for you for seeing a counselor to sort through this maddness!! No, it's NOT your fault, you CAN'T fix him, and you DESERVE a relationship that meets your terms as well. Counseling will make the process go much more quickly and you'll get much stronger!! You're SO much stronger than when you were first posting on LS!! I'm so impressed with the speed and depth of your progress and insight!! Continue to be strong and keep that humor rolling!!

January 8, 2010

all I can think is, "Yeah, but it's not music, it doesn't really mean anything. I'm still not special enough for him."

Hi Sedgwick,

Perhaps the reality of the situation wasn't that you weren't special enough for him, perhaps it was that he perceived you as MORE special than him and he couldn't handle it!! Maybe he felt beneath you and thought that once you figured it out, you'd most certainly bail! This seems to be the theme with CPs and given all you've accomplished and from what you've posted . . . it seems this could have been the case with him as well!!

January 8, 2010

Catseye, it's scary how much our guys sound alike!! Especially the thing about him clamming up and saying nothing when there was anything emotional to be discussed. If there was the slightest conflict and I tried to talk to my ex about it, it was like some kind of wall went up and he just checked out. I can remember saying to him, "Would you be willing to respond to me?" and seeing in his eyes that he was completely baffled. It was almost like he turned into another person in those moments. Very bizarre and creepy.

Yeah, isn't it strange? I'm fairly sure that my CP ex learned that trick growing up in an alcoholic household a long time ago, and it does make it easier to know that this is one of his issues that loooooong predates our relationship, but yeah, 'creepy' is EXACTLY the right word. His expression at these times was always exactly the same - not even blank, but this sort of benign, puzzled look (I can't really describe it any better) and he'd just SWITCH into it. So weird.

When we broke up, I said something to him about being willing to fight for our relationship, and he said, "I don't like to fight. Whenever there's a sign of a fight, I run." I had to explain that fighting FOR me and fighting WITH me were two different things, but I don't think he got it.

It's a very strange, alien way of looking at the world - "anything that involves fighting and conflict is terrifying, no matter what you're fighting for or what the conflict's over!" Like you said about the quitting, it's really immature - and I mean that as a description rather than an insult. Like a terrified little boy, really.

It often feels like he must have forgotten all about me; he completely stopped speaking to me, so I have no reason to think otherwise. I am not allowed in his life in any way because I don't have the exact same career as his. I always thought maybe he'd come around at some point, but nope, he vanished and that was that. The last two and a half years have been all about trying to find some shred of confidence in myself even though I'm just a writer and dancer. I'd love it if I could be happy about my book being approved, but instead all I can think is, "Yeah, but it's not music, it doesn't really mean anything. I'm still not special enough for him."

Oh honey *hugs*. I'm sure if you'd been a musician he'd just have found something else to freak out about, so he could feel like he had some kind of reason for doing it that wasn't just about his panic. I mean, if he had to come up with something like 'you're not a musician' (what, like he didn't know that for the rest of the relationship?) it seems like he couldn't come up with anything you were actually doing wrong, either. You sound amazing, you really do, and I'm so sorry this horrible bizarre thing happened to you.

Congratulations on your book! That's great news Is it a novel?

January 9, 2010

But . . . I didn't call him out on his recent resurfacing and now I think I need to. He calls over the holidays all frantic to see me, requests moving the dates closer twice in order to see me earlier and spends much much more time with me than originally planned, arrives with roses, yada yada yada, calls twice on the day of his arrival back home (he lives at a little distance) and then . . . it's been radio silence since a week and a half ago. And then yesterday . . . in my e-mail, his photo arrives as one of my online dating matches which means he's just now reactivated his online dating profile and AFTER we saw each other.

Ugh, how awful - seriously, I swear these guys couldn't be more effective if they were PAID to hurt us and drive us crazy. That is seriously out of line. I hope when you do set down those boundaries it involves seriously tearing a strip off him.

I don't care if it's CP or arachnophobia, ligyrophobia (fear of balloons popping) or what it is, it's selfish and disrespectful and I won't have it. I don't want him to be of the thinking that this relationship is a DVD movie where he can push "play" and then "pause" and then "play" at will.

EXACTLY. His issues are for him to deal with, and he has no right to act like they're more important than your feelings just because you have your act together better than he does. This behaviour is NOT okay.

HELP!! Since his resurfacing he's too much back in my head again!! I thought I was stronger than I am!!

You sound amazingly strong! Honestly I think someone would have to be a robot not to let this get to them, and especially with your guy's recent behaviour being so bizarre and awful recently. Just don't let yourself get so caught up in wishing you'd set down more boundaries that you start letting yourself take any of the blame for what he's doing.

OK now, this is KEY!! Look what just happened to me and I'm pretty removed from it. . . or so I thought!! Get really secure and firm in your expectations and boundaries and DON'T BUDGE unless he proves to you he's changed. Georgia Girl (from LS) was the only one who was able to successfully re-establish a healthy relationship with her CP bf and it was only because . . . he was getting counseling . . . she held firm with her boundaries and expectations . . . she made him prove that he was making progress and didn't jump back in. She forced him to give her the assurance she needed in order to take a chance with him again.

I SO want to get there! Must stay strong... It's awful because I DO feel sorry for him in part, I hate that he's going through bad depression and I never saw it... but I also know that if I restart a relationship with him saying "okay honey, you come and go on your own terms and we'll do what you want however you want since you have Issues and I'm okay," I'd be letting myself in for a WORLD of pain. No I'm not perfect, but none of my boundaries have ever been unreasonable.

he went into his whole lunacy of "I can't believe you want to continue because what if it deteriorates and I love you and you're awesome." I said, "Normal people end relationships WHEN they deteriorate, not because of WHAT IF. Then it became, "Sure, it's great now but what if six months down the road . . . what if??!! . . . what if??!!. . . what if??!! Sounds kinda familiar huh

I got "I'm so scared I'll screw this up!" Um, well... don't screw it up, then? I don't go about my day thinking "I'm so scared I'll rob a bank!", do I?

The best way I CAN find to think of it in my own experience: I'm an academic, and when I first started giving papers at conferences in front of senior and important people I was TERRIFIED I'd get something wrong, or I wouldn't know enough to answer a question, or someone would stand up in the audience and yell "This work is terrible! Fraud! Fraud! Fraud!" Even when everything was going well. Maybe that's how they think about relationships...

Good for you for seeing a counselor to sort through this maddness!! No, it's NOT your fault, you CAN'T fix him, and you DESERVE a relationship that meets your terms as well. Counseling will make the process go much more quickly and you'll get much stronger!!

I hope so! I have another appointment in two weeks. The counsellor seemed to think my CP ex sounded fascinating, but like one of my friends said tonight, "she's probably thinking 'Great, someone else gets this really interesting case and I just get the girlfriend'" Most importantly, she helped me with thinking through it.

You're SO much stronger than when you were first posting on LS!! I'm so impressed with the speed and depth of your progress and insight!! Continue to be strong and keep that humor rolling!!

Thank you! I'm still having a really hard time of it sometimes, but even then I haven't actually been curled up on the floor crying recently. Sounds weird, but it actually helped that he signed off an email with a kiss the other day. In this part of the world, straight men don't sign off with kisses platonically - that is DEFINITELY mixed signals and I'm not going crazy!

He emailed me again today. From what he said I'm about 90% sure that he's not only still reading my blog (which I'd already guessed), but has - get this - been going back through the archives to read all the "yay, my boyfriend rocks and I'm so happy!" stuff I wrote about him early in the relationship, and is QUOTING FROM IT now. WTF, seriously. I didn't reply, went out for dinner with a friend instead, and now I'm back home I'm off to stick Post-It notes saying "You cannot make sense out of madness!" all over my mirror

January 9, 2010

Ugh, how awful - seriously, I swear these guys couldn't be more effective if they were PAID to hurt us and drive us crazy. That is seriously out of line. I hope when you do set down those boundaries it involves seriously tearing a strip off him.

You sound amazingly strong! Honestly I think someone would have to be a robot not to let this get to them, and especially with your guy's recent behaviour being so bizarre and awful recently. Just don't let yourself get so caught up in wishing you'd set down more boundaries that you start letting yourself take any of the blame for what he's doing.

Thanks for your support Catseye. I'm really not as strong as I seem . . . or as I thought I was. I thought I was removed enough and strong enough that I could see him and not get caught up in emotion. It's just not the case. I was out with some friends tonight and I told them that I plan to give him a call, set a boundary and walk away from it all for good. I just can't have someone who effects me in this way in my life or lurking in the back of my mind as having any potential. I know that it's fully up to me to put a stop to it once and for all and to use some thought stopping tecniques to get him out of my head. My friends said setting a verbal boundary is not going to keep him from contacting you in the future and they're likely right. Although I can't stop the contact, I can change the way I react to it. As a result of this most recent resurfacing, obviously BEFORE he was fully ready to engage in a REAL and HEALTHY relationship, I'm coming to more fully realize that this relationship is beyond any hope for now or the future. He may have come with genuine intentions to engage fully, but he just couldn't bring himself to do it so he's pushed the "pause" button and is distancing again. He told me some time ago that he can't stand the thought of not having me in his life in some way and right now I'm certain he's assuming I'm on "pause." The thing is, I'm not!! In ther interims of seeing him I never have been on pause!! When he was here last he was also "telling me" where I could move, all conveniently within driving distance of him, but interestingly not within his city!! I responded, the world is a big place and there are many options. I haven't yet decided where I'll be moving. He knows I have a future move planned and he knows I had some ideas of moving internationally when we first met. I also speculate that once he becomes fully aware that I'm no longer an option for when he's ready that he's really going to become unglued. And then . . . likely . . . I'll be his excuse as to why he never married or settled with someone because he couldn't replace me!! I'm NOT saying this to boost my own ego either. I really think he's trying to keep me on ice for when he's ready . . . which may be never. He's middle aged, never married, and will likely live his life out as a very lonely man but it will be of his own doing.

I SO want to get there! Must stay strong... It's awful because I DO feel sorry for him in part, I hate that he's going through bad depression and I never saw it... but I also know that if I restart a relationship with him saying "okay honey, you come and go on your own terms and we'll do what you want however you want since you have Issues and I'm okay," I'd be letting myself in for a WORLD of pain. No I'm not perfect, but none of my boundaries have ever been unreasonable.

My guy struggles with depression too and I felt exactly as you do, a part of me felt so sorry for him. BUT. . . you are SO right . . . you cannot have a relationship with him solely on his terms because its not fair to you and it will rip your insides out!! And then where will you be!! And I really think that's what they push for, a relationship on their terms with no expectations!!

I got "I'm so scared I'll screw this up!" Um, well... don't screw it up, then? I don't go about my day thinking "I'm so scared I'll rob a bank!", do I?

The best way I CAN find to think of it in my own experience: I'm an academic, and when I first started giving papers at conferences in front of senior and important people I was TERRIFIED I'd get something wrong, or I wouldn't know enough to answer a question, or someone would stand up in the audience and yell "This work is terrible! Fraud! Fraud! Fraud!" Even when everything was going well. Maybe that's how they think about relationships...

I don't think they think about it logically. I think their reaction is more instinctual. My guy kept on saying during the breakup, "Usually I am very logical and there's nothing logical about this, it's just a feeling in my gut." He's right, usually he is very logical and he's in a profession that requires logic but when it comes to relationships, his head is too far up his butt to think straight. When he resurfaced the first time and I expressed my angst I said, "You sabotaged this for no valid reason and solely due to your gut and your gut su9&s!! Your gut was nothing more than your anxiety." He said, "I know. I did sabotage it. I made a mistake." blaaaaahhhhhhh!!

Thank you! I'm still having a really hard time of it sometimes, but even then I haven't actually been curled up on the floor crying recently. Sounds weird, but it actually helped that he signed off an email with a kiss the other day. In this part of the world, straight men don't sign off with kisses platonically - that is DEFINITELY mixed signals and I'm not going crazy!

Been there EXACTLY!! Most definately mixed signals and you're NOT going crazy!! During the process of ending it, he once sent me an e-mail 8 short hours after I thought it had ended that was signed off with xxoo. I called him out on it, told him he was confusing and asked him why he did it. He immediately blurts out as though it's an everyday thing, I sign off with ALL my friends that way!!!!!! Muuuuuuuuhahahahahahahahahaha Yes, and I bet if I asked him now, he brings red roses just like he did on his recent visit to all his friends too!! What do ya think??!! Maybe we should start a mixed message thread olympics and choose someone from LS to declare the winner!! Under the circumstances, can you believe the guy actually brings red roses??????!!!!!!!!! I about fell over when he handed me those. It was awkward at first but in the end . . . through the course of events . . . he effectively sucked me back into him . . . and it's of my own doing because I allowed it.

He emailed me again today. From what he said I'm about 90% sure that he's not only still reading my blog (which I'd already guessed), but has - get this - been going back through the archives to read all the "yay, my boyfriend rocks and I'm so happy!" stuff I wrote about him early in the relationship, and is QUOTING FROM IT now. WTF, seriously. I didn't reply, went out for dinner with a friend instead, and now I'm back home I'm off to stick Post-It notes saying "You cannot make sense out of madness!" all over my mirror

LOL!!!! I'm SURE he IS reading all your blogs to assure himself that he hasn't lost you. The thing is, he needs to find himself and get a grip or he will lose you. "You cannot make sense out of maddness!!!!" I love it!! I pray to God that the next man to enter my life is stable. Hang in!!

Not coping, after breakup with CP man

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