Not coping, after breakup with CP man

January 15, 2010

I'd give it till Sunday (and fully expect to get the CP revisionism spin if he does call at the weekend - "But, we agreed by the end of the week!"). But yeah, 'mid-week' is before Friday by my definition too. How frustrating! Much support going your way....

Thanks. I'll give it till Sunday.

You could always wait till he does call and then tell him you're 'too tired' to discuss things now...

LOL!! For all I know he could wait, days, weeks, or a few months, or God knows, even years and then show up at my doorstep with an armful of roses and when I say: "Why are you here????!!!!" He could respond, "Well, we agreed that we were going to talk." In his head, I'm supposed to be on "pause" after all!! The fact of the matter is, I DON'T have to open the door and I will have to keep on reminding myself of that!

I hate how they keep on poking around and interfering with the healing process. It's my own doing though, I didn't have to open the door to rekindling things over the holidays.

January 15, 2010

Yes! And from our perspective, it's as if we're the pilots, and the ground crew's done all the checks, the plane's fuelled up with everyone aboard and everything's good and we're just about to go... and suddenly our co-pilot collapses to the ground and goes "OMG, I can't go up in a plane! What if it gets hit by lightning or falls into the sea or something? It's a big heavy metal object! It can't fly!" And on one hand, you're seeing a panic attack and realising that phobias aren't rational, oh, maybe he went through some bad flying experience in the past... and on the other hand you're thinking "You went through flight training school! You begged to get assigned to this flight! We're all ready to go! What did you think was going to happen?"

This is HILARIOUS and gives me the funniest visual!! I can just visualize the female pilot standing over the male pilot who's rollling around on the floor in sheer terror and fright wailing "OMG, OMG, . . . . I just can't do this!!!" The female pilot is looking down on the male pilot totally perplexed by his reaction, her mouth agape, thinking, wtf??? and where did all this come from????? It's EXACTLY what it's like and SO right on!!

And doubly difficult - they can break up like normal people do, sometimes, when it's not a CP freakout! I know mine's broken up with a girlfriend normally before and not put her through this wringer... and before this experience, I would've said that was all I needed to know to be confident he was a grown man who could handle breakups. Wroooooong.

You're probably right. Thanks for your enlightening perspective. They can break up like normal people do providing they haven't become emotionally attached leading to a freak out that's the cause of the break up. Engaging in superficial relationships likely doesn't cause all this angst for them.

Another thing that was really disorienting and weird about the "I'm not ready to live together yet" line is that the line in itself is perfectly reasonable - hell, I said it to him earlier in the relationship! But he'd use it for the last-minute freakouts where it just didn't seem to fit. I remember saying "Look, saying you're not ready is for when you make reasonable decisions about what you want, it's for when you're feeling apprehensive about it. But this is total terror, and I just don't get how it could be that scary when you were fine with it a week ago - 'not ready' is not the same as 'terrified'!" And he'd just keep repeating "It's because I'm not ready yet," as if he was reading from the only script he knew.

You're absolutely right!! "I'm not ready" BEFORE you fully work through your anxiety and apprehension and agree to move in together is reasonable. But once you commit to doing it, the assumption is that you're capable of working through any upcoming anxiety or "cold feet" and follow through on your commitment, and certainly NOT react with total terror when the time comes to act. That must have been REALLY tough to be trying to reason with him and have him continually come back with the scripted response, "It's because I'm not ready yet." Here's a question I doubt he could have answered rationally, "Since you thought you were ready just last week and now you're not, what in God's name will it take for you to be ready???"

I started calling him on this stuff towards the end of the relationship, when he swore he'd start working on it and get to the bottom of why he 'panicked and ran away' (his words, even!). And he'd keep coming up with explanations that I think he even believed - "I'm worried about living with you because I once started going out with someone I already shared a house with, and then that relationship went wrong, so I'm worried about that happening again!" And I was saying, "no, that's not it. That would make people nervous, not totally terrified. I think there's something else going on here." Hmmm... well, he did always say that he really appreciated having a girlfriend who'd call him on his bull****... I suppose that just got too close to home!

It's not rational at all. Just because he had an experience living with one individual does NOT mean he's going to have a repeat of that experience with you!! You're a different person and your relationship is different. If this thinking were rational, once we had one live-together relationship go sour, we'd never enter another one due to being terrified of a repeat experience. I suspect this had more to do with YOU getting to know HIM at a deeper level and subsequently rejecting him, even if this isn't in his conscious awareness. I suspect you did get too 'scary' close to home!

I had a version of that exact same thing! "I need my space!" followed by him arranging it so we were spending all our time together followed by "I need my spaaaaaaaaaace, we're spending all our time together!"

This hot/cold nonsense drove me mad. And I kid you not, I experienced him go hot/cold/hot/cold sometimes sentence to sentence, not even paragraph to paragraph or day to day or week to week!! It was truly insane!!

Ahahaha, fantastic! Thank you! My God, it's like every weird thing they do that you think is just so bizarre there's no way it could be explained... turns out they're just reading straight from the big CP manual. (Which I am beginning to believe they all have copies of, and possibly also secret group meetings to discuss tactics from. "Quick! Everyone! To page 83, "Running Away And Then Acting All Wistful!")

Or the chapter titled,

"Mixed Messages Made Easy: How to really f with your partner's mind"

Or,

"Simple Steps to Sabotage: Preserve your escape hatch in 3 easy steps"

Yep, indeed. And if he never calls or contacts me again (I think unlikely, but possible), then after all this I'll know to just read that as a sign that he's incapable of a relationship in which I don't go running after him in a situation like this... and that isn't the kind of relationship I'm ever going to settle for.

Contact or no contact, don't settle for anything other than the healthy relationship that you deserve!!

Do you ever get the impression that they do things to influence us to run after them and chase them? At times, I've gotten this impression but I've never run after him or chased him and I never will!!

This might sound weird but I'm also trying to anticipate possible tactics of his! Just to get my defences up. I know he's got a situation coming up that might end up in really upsetting bad news for him, and if he turns to me for sympathy then... well, uh, I don't know what I'd do. Trying to brace myself for that just in case.

I was telling one of my friends that I'm still kind of worried he'll turn up on my doorstep when I'm having a really woe-is-me day, and I'll just take him back no questions asked, and she suggested I make a contract with myself: if I can't be sure I'll say "no", then I can at least make sure I don't say "yes" either. So, if he resurfaces and I feel myself wavering, I tell him "Let me think about this, and I'll get back to you tomorrow." And then I phone as many friends as I can get hold of!

This IS tough and I think it's GREAT that you're thinking about what you will do in the event of his resurfacing so as to be prepared!! Don't let yourself fall into being there for him if he needs you due to "really upsetting bad news" in his life. He only deserves that part of you in a fully commited relationship where he's "all in," not in the half-a$$ed relationship he may try to establish. If you give of yourself to him in his time of need, will he fully be there for you in your time of need?? A healthy relationship is one of reciprocity with BOTH individuals needs being equally respected. Where was he in regard to YOUR needs when he backed out on his commitment to live with you creating some "really upsetting bad news" in your life!!

I can tell you, without a doubt, seeing them in person IS the toughest. It sets off all sorts of STRONG emotions, actions, and reactions and can set you back in the healing process. Learn from MY mistake. I thought I was strong enough to see him over the holidays and keep my guard up and keep my distance. I wasn't as strong as I thought and I allowed my heart to rule instead of my head.

LOL, yes! And the problem is that the coin really does have that bright shiny side. When these men fall in love with us, I really do believe they're not faking it... they're totally genuine about falling in love, totally genuine about wanting to be with us, totally genuine about getting close. What we're seeing isn't an act. It's just that we don't see the whole picture, either - the big cloud of "panic freakout TOO CLOSE RUN!" that's gathering overhead.

I agree!! I don't think they're faking it either. But then . . . due to the anxiety . . . they have to deny their feelings and sabotage and kick holes in it!! It kind of reminds me of this song:

One of my friends said "This man clearly doesn't love you! You should find a decent man who'll fall head over heels for you and treat you like he's the luckiest man alive to be with you!" And I said "Yeah, I did find one... and then he pulled this." I think she thinks I'm delusional, but no, these men are just weird.

My friends have the same thoughts as well. They cannot understand WHY I would remain connected in any way to this man. But . . . mostly I've described the "evil twin" behavior to them because I was looking for support. Also, how can one ever fully describe to an outside party what they share so intimately with another. What is shared is only fully known and experienced by the two partners. It can be described to others . . . but only we know because we experienced it.

Your support has been absolutely amazing here! It's so great to hear from someone who's going through this weird behaviour too and still has her head on straight about it. (Well, I know he's messing with your head recently, but you're still in a much more stable place about it than I am..)

Thank you very much!! You've been a great source of support to me too!! And . . . you're much more stable than you think!! Dealing with a relationship with a CP is truly a mf and it takes stability. Hmmmmmm . . . maybe that's part of the reason they're so drawn to us.

I feel so much better about things now than I did at the beginning of this, even though I still feel awful and miss him in so many ways too. But even my perspective on this has changed so much.

Before... I was totally confused about why he sabotaged and distanced, totally confused about why he ran, totally confused about what I'd done to cause it, totally confused about whether the breakup was as mixed-message-ish as I thought it was or whether that was wishful thinking, totally confused about why he was acting so mixed-message-ish since then or whether that was just normal breakup behaviour I hadn't seen before, and pretty sure he could easily be the partner I wanted but a lot less sure he'd ever try to come back.

Now... I get why he sabotaged, distanced and ran (as much as we can ever 'get' what goes on in these twisted minds). I know it was him, not me. I'm totally sure that the breakup had all the mixed messages I think it did, and that he's been throwing mixed messages at me since - because committing to letting me go is almost as scary as committing to staying. And as for chances of a future, well, that's flipped right round too... I'm pretty sure he'll try to come back in some form at some point, but a lot less sure he'll be able to do all the work he needs to do in order to be the partner I want.

I am sooooooo happy that you're feeling better and I know you will continue to feel better!! And . . . now that the fog of confusion has cleared and you have a keen understanding of what makes a CP tick . . . you know it's NOT you!! And . . . you know that what counts is what YOU want and deserve in the way of a healthy relationship and it hinges on whether he can meet YOUR expectations!! BRAVO!!

In a way, I'm glad that he sent me the snappy email that finally made me get mad at him! I spent several weeks walking on eggshells worrying about what he'd do or what he'd think or whether I'd drive him away for good.... and then he crossed a line, and I stamped on the eggshells. And oh, hey, suddenly he's sending me kisses and reminding me of the good times. But it's going to take a bit more than that!

(I still do have hope for a future with him, though, even though I feel a bit pathetic to hope for it. He does realise he has an issue with this stuff, he does think it's an issue he wants to get rid of, and he is going to counselling, so that's got to be good... but on the other hand, that mind is so, so tangled. I don't know.)

It WAS a blessing in disguise that he sent that snappy e-mail influencing you to get mad at him. It's NO fun walking on egg shells, especially with a CP because the placement of the egg shells shifts depending on the CP's state of mind, and the partner is in the dark as to where they are at any given moment in time. I'm proud of you that you had the strength to stand up for yourself and stomp on the egg shells!!

As for the future, I know you still have hope but I also see you looking at things more realistically in knowing that he may never reach a level where he cuts the mustard!! It's tough to completely give up hope with the CP dangling things out to you immediately post break up, or in my case, resurfacing and reconnecting. Heaven knows, if I'd completely given up hope I wouldn't have gotten caught up in Hurricane CP over the holidays, which means I obviously still have some work to do on myself. One things for certain, the damage left in the wake of Hurricane CP this time, is no where near the damage left before. Stay strong!!

January 17, 2010

I just wanted to tell you how much it helps to read this thread. Our guys sound SO much alike! However, I've completely internalized his behavior and have spent the last two and a half years beating the sh*t out of myself for not being good enough for him. That bright shiny side of the coin -- yup! Totally had it. Sweet, smart, funny, talented, good-looking. And as such, I've put him on a pedestal and ground myself into the dirt over the fact that I can never reach his heights of greatness.

I am so down about all this right now that it's all I can do to fight the idea that I deserve to be endlessly punished for wasting his time and not being as good a person as he is.

This thread makes me feel like maybe it's not all me. I've let the responsibility for the breakup rest on my shoulders for so long it's completely worn me down. I'm not even the same person anymore. It's like I can see CP behavior in others, but when I look at my ex I can't help thinking he'd have committed if I'd been good enough. Your descriptions of your boyfriends' behavior makes me think just maybe, perhaps, it could have been partially his responsibility as well.

Edited January 17, 2010 by sedgwick

January 17, 2010

I just wanted to tell you how much it helps to read this thread. Our guys sound SO much alike! However, I've completely internalized his behavior and have spent the last two and a half years beating the sh*t out of myself for not being good enough for him.

Sedwick, listen to me, It's NOT you, it's HIM!! He's twisted!! You could not and cannnot untwist him no matter WHAT you did or do!! It's NOT that YOU weren't good enough for him, it's that HE was/is too twisted to have a healthy relationship and I don't care whether he's an up and coming rock star, a rock star, or king of planet earth. He's not evolved enough to have a healthy relationship and he may never be!!!!! Trust me!!!!! Rock star status, fame and fortune, I don't care what it is, that alone does not qualify for the capacity to give and receive love in a healthy reciprocal way in a healthy relationship. You're obvisously evolved and have the capacity, HE didn't/ doesn't!! Given that fact alone, in reality, HE'S not good enough for a relationship with you.

That bright shiny side of the coin -- yup! Totally had it. Sweet, smart, funny, talented, good-looking. And as such, I've put him on a pedestal and ground myself into the dirt over the fact that I can never reach his heights of greatness.

Yes, there's that bright shiny side, but never forget there's also the flip side!! And when that coin keeps on flip flopping, flip flopping back and forth it's just a mf!! His greatness???????????!!!!!! What greatness?????!!!!! The greatest heights we can reach in this life is the capacity to be able to give and receive genuine love in healthy reciprocal relationships and this guy WASN'T there and likely won't get there!! You're BETTER than that and you deserve GREATER than that!!

I am so down about all this right now that it's all I can do to fight the idea that I deserve to be endlessly punished for wasting his time and not being as good a person as he is.

Wasting HIS time????!!! NOT!! He wasted YOUR time!! You had and have the capacity to give yourself and your love fully where HE did not. HE wasted YOUR time. Don't let HIS bass ackwards thinking twist YOU into bass ackwards thinking!!

This thread makes me feel like maybe it's not all me. I've let the responsibility for the breakup rest on my shoulders for so long it's completely worn me down. I'm not even the same person anymore. It's like I can see CP behavior in others, but when I look at my ex I can't help thinking he'd have committed if I'd been good enough. Your descriptions of your boyfriends' behavior makes me think just maybe, perhaps, it could have been partially his responsibility as well.

Sedgwick, the responsibility for the breakup rests on HIS shoulders!! He's the one who cut and ran because HE doesn't have the capacity to connect at the same level of love that you do!! He hides because he's afraid of being fully known!! You could have been PERFECT in every way (which is not humanly possible) and he STILL would have found something, some kind of reason, even an irrational or illogical one (what catseye describes as an escape hatch) to cut and run because he CAN'T deal with true intimacy for fear of being truly known!! There's absolutely NOTHING you could have done to produce an alternate outcome!! He IS who he IS and there's nothing you could have done to change him. That task rested and rests with him alone and he may full well go through his entire life never evolving to the level of being able to be fully known and fully capable of giving and receiving genuine love. As much as it $uck$, that's the way it is!! Don't remain attached and in love with his potential because in reality, his potential may never become evolved and fully realized in this lifetime. Don't let this man rob you of realizing and living out YOUR potential in this lifetime!! No man is worth that!! You're greater than him Sedgwick . . . think about it . . . let it sink in . . . believe it!!

January 17, 2010

Sedgwick,

What Serena said!

It's not you. And it's not surprising this has messed with your head so much, when it's such a bizarre and awful situation! The behaviour of these men, it just does not make sense according to rational logic, and blaming ourselves will just drive us crazy. I'm sure none of us are perfect here, but none of us go 'hey, this is a really good relationship OH MY GOD RUN!' either, because that's a totally irrational way to think. And yet... it's the way these people do think, even when they're not totally aware of it.

And I know how tough it is, when you did see the bright shiny side of that coin, and you know how great the relationship was, and you start thinking 'It must have been me, why else would he do that?' It's really difficult to get your head around the idea that some people have deep-rooted psychological problems that manifest themselves in this way. But, they do.

(And if people start telling you - or if you start telling yourself - that if someone loved you enough they'd overcome their psychological problems to be with you, therefore if they didn't overcome those issues then they didn't really care at all, etc etc, STOP. That way lies madness. 3-year-olds love their parents, but they still scream and cry and throw tantrums at those parents, because they're 3-year-olds and don't have the emotional development to act like adults. Not all adults have that emotional development, either. Or, as one of my friends put it when I was in tears over this guy and whether or not he'd been lying about loving me all along - "Just because someone's crazy about you doesn't mean they can't be crazy at you.")

January 17, 2010

They can break up like normal people do providing they haven't become emotionally attached leading to a freak out that's the cause of the break up. Engaging in superficial relationships likely doesn't cause all this angst for them.

Yet another reason it's so frustrating! If you can't even trust past history to give you a good idea of how they behave, what are you meant to do to spot these men before getting involved with them? Although... looking back on it, I bet that if I could go back in time and watch my ex's previous relationships break up, I'd be able to spot some of this CP weirdness raising its head, even if it didn't get this bad before. He certainly knew he had a problem, after all...

You're absolutely right!! "I'm not ready" BEFORE you fully work through your anxiety and apprehension and agree to move in together is reasonable. But once you commit to doing it, the assumption is that you're capable of working through any upcoming anxiety or "cold feet" and follow through on your commitment, and certainly NOT react with total terror when the time comes to act. That must have been REALLY tough to be trying to reason with him and have him continually come back with the scripted response, "It's because I'm not ready yet." Here's a question I doubt he could have answered rationally, "Since you thought you were ready just last week and now you're not, what in God's name will it take for you to be ready???"

Haha - I asked him exactly that! I just was not buying that 'I've had a live-together situation go wrong in the past' was an explanation for the terror-panic reaction - I've had a living-together situation go really bad myself, one that actually ended up abusive before I got out, and if I don't react with total terror, then, well... I'm not buying it from him. Apprehension, nerves, sure - terror, no.

His answer was "I need to spend more time getting to the bottom of why I'm scared." Which was actually pretty reasonable, in itself. But then, I think he got a bit too close to why he was scared... and that scared him even more. Yes, I think it did have a lot to do with his fear that I'd get to really see him, including all the parts of himself he didn't want anyone to ever see. It's a lot harder to hide all that when you're living with someone, after all.

This hot/cold nonsense drove me mad. And I kid you not, I experienced him go hot/cold/hot/cold sometimes sentence to sentence, not even paragraph to paragraph or day to day or week to week!! It was truly insane!!

It really, really is! I count myself very lucky I only started to get that in the last 6 weeks of the relationship - it messed with my head badly enough then, I don't know what it would have done to me to have to deal with it any longer. (Although, I suppose I've been dealing with exactly that in all the mixed-messages stuff after the breakup since!)

Or the chapter titled,
"Mixed Messages Made Easy: How to really f with your partner's mind"

Or,
"Simple Steps to Sabotage: Preserve your escape hatch in 3 easy steps"

LOL! "'I Never Said That!': Making Revisionism Work For YOU." Or: "1001 Bizarre Things To Say That'll Leave Your Partner's Head Spinning"!

Do you ever get the impression that they do things to influence us to run after them and chase them? At times, I've gotten this impression but I've never run after him or chased him and I never will!!

YES! I've got that impression too - and then wondered if I was going crazy. My God, these men can mess with your mind.

I agree!! I don't think they're faking it either. But then . . . due to the anxiety . . . they have to deny their feelings and sabotage and kick holes in it!! It kind of reminds me of this song:

Oooh, I love that song! And yes, I think that's it - because if they weren't emotionally invested, then the reaction wouldn't be anxiety and panic and a need to go hunting for the escape hatch. They overwhelm themselves and then freak out about it. And it's like they find things to be smothered and overwhelmed by, too - like yours freaking himself out about how to define the status of the relationship, or mine making such a massive thing about living together and then panicking. Weird weird deeply weird.

My friends have the same thoughts as well. They cannot understand WHY I would remain connected in any way to this man. But . . . mostly I've described the "evil twin" behavior to them because I was looking for support. Also, how can one ever fully describe to an outside party what they share so intimately with another. What is shared is only fully known and experienced by the two partners. It can be described to others . . . but only we know because we experienced it.

Ohhhhh, yes. I had such a strong connection to this guy... and it just makes it even more bizarre to deal with when you're suddenly facing the evil twin! One of my friends who did know him and what he was like (and we were like together) for most of our relationship actually asked me if I thought he might be developing schizophrenia or some kind of personality disorder, she was that puzzled by his behaviour. (I don't think he is at all, but I can see why she'd be going there!)

Thank you very much!! You've been a great source of support to me too!! And . . . you're much more stable than you think!! Dealing with a relationship with a CP is truly a mf and it takes stability. Hmmmmmm . . . maybe that's part of the reason they're so drawn to us.

Now that's an interesting suggestion! I know that mine was always really impressed/fascinated that I'm really, really good at knowing what's going on inside my head all the time. (Not that everything that goes on inside my head is sensible or rational, but I can usually at least work out what it is!)

One things for certain, the damage left in the wake of Hurricane CP this time, is no where near the damage left before. Stay strong!!

And you! Don't let him mixed-messages and revisionism his way out of the consequences for his actions. Especially if he turns up with red roses again!

And... speaking of Hurricane CP, I have an update:

Last night I went out for drinks with a friend, and I was telling her how I was coping with the situation and what I was doing about it. And I told her about how I'd dropped contact with him, and why, and I told her I was feeling pretty good about that too. And she said "So he knows you're pulling back... what will you do if he emails you again? And I even said, "If he wants to talk like an adult I'm prepared to listen, but I doubt he'll send me any kind of email that warrants a reply right now." I even made the decision to completely lock down my Twitter account, because I've been vaguely suspecting for a while that he's still keeping an eye on me and my life by reading it. All done!

TWO HOURS LATER, after just over a week of NC...

He emailed me with news about a situation that's going on in his family. Basically, it's bad news about one particular family member (someone I always got on really well with, but can't contact directly myself, which is annoying right now!). I suspected this might be coming - and it's not as bad as it could have been, but it's still pretty bad. The fallout from this situation is also difficult and painful for my ex in several ways. So his email is about 75% giving me the facts of the family member's situation, and 25% talking about how hard it's hit him.

ARGH. Now I don't know what to do. I do actually appreciate being updated about the family member's situation - and I feel bad for my ex, now going through an extra-tough time himself on top of it - and I know it's not like he timed this news to get to me. But... on the other hand... this is news he got earlier in the week, not late on Saturday night when he emailed me. So, awful though I feel for saying this, I really can't help but feel a bit like he was holding this in reserve to pull out when it became clear I had dropped contact and wasn't just taking my time to reply. In which case, you were very very right about him pulling out the bigger guns!

Also: to send all this two hours after I had that conversation with my friend, I swear he's psychic or something! If only these messed-up men would learn to use their powers for good, we could probably solve world hunger or something. WTF does he WANT from me? I can't decide whether I am upset, furious, worried, or all three. ARGH!

January 17, 2010

LOL! "'I Never Said That!': Making Revisionism Work For YOU." Or: "1001 Bizarre Things To Say That'll Leave Your Partner's Head Spinning"!

HA!!!! I love it!

Here are a few examples of my guy's wishy-washiness. On our first date, he told me what a connection he felt with me, then a few minutes later said, "I wouldn't date me." (This referring to how often he's on the road.)

Then there was the time he asked to read my book even though we'd only been dating a couple of weeks. I told him it covered some pretty heavy stuff in my life, and that I wasn't sure I wanted him to know all of it just yet. He said, "I really want to read it! I promise I won't think any differently of you." I reluctantly gave it to him. The next time I saw him, he told me how good it was. Then, later the same night, he told me the content scared him and he was wary of dating me.

The next day he said, "If we're going to do this thing, I need to make sure you're eating well," because in the book I talked about the fact that I'd had an eating disorder, and the day he said this I'd been too busy to eat and skipped lunch. I said, "What thing?" He said, "This Sedgwick-and-Joe thing."

The next time he saw me, I went to kiss him, and he said, "I'm just not sure I'm feeling this as much as you are." So I said fine, I would never make a move on him again, it was all up to him. Later that night he was all over me telling me how sexy I was. He ended up doing this a lot -- telling me my libido was just higher than his, then initiating sex.

There was the time after sex when he said (half-jokingly, but still), "If the bass could f*ck me back, you'd be outta luck." There were the times I wanted him to stay over but he told me he couldn't because he hadn't slept with his bass in a while and she was getting lonely. (He slept with his bass in the bed with him, his guitar at his feet, and his banjo by the side of the bed.)

There was the time he bought himself a bed, finally, after sleeping on the floor of his apartment on a bedroll for a year. He was all excited about it. I rarely went to his place because he had a roommate and it was just not "homey" there -- total bachelor crash pad, whereas my place is all mine, painted bright colors, with lots of art on the walls, a real HOME. So anyway, I thought buying the bed was a big step, then a few weeks later I went to his place and it was all still leaning against the wall. I ended up setting it up for him, because I knew he'd never do it. He said, "Oh, thanks, I was planning to get to that someday." I was like, how hard is it to set up a freaking BED?! Put the frame together, put the mattress on top of it, takes less than half an hour! His answer: "I was too busy playing music."

There was the time he broke his glasses and put them back together with a bent-out paper clip super-glued to the top. It was getting a bit embarrassing (he didn't have time to deal with it, he had to play music), so I finally dragged him to the eyeglass shop where he picked out frames and had them made. He was excited and thanked me for making him go. Three weeks later he still hadn't bothered to pick them up (again, playing music) so I took it upon myself to go pick them up for him and take them to him.

There was the time he was mugged at gunpoint but waffled for DAYS about reporting it to the police, because the kid was young and he didn't want to be responsible for the kid getting "thrown into the system." I had to struggle to convince him that IF SOMEONE POINTS A GUN AT YOU, YOU REPORT IT BEFORE THEY HURT SOMEONE ELSE. And the time when his band had a booking agent offering to take care of all the work he had previously been doing, and the other band members were all for it, and Joe waffled for several weeks about making that kind of commitment and HAVING to do those shows. I reminded him he'd never not done a show before and that he always complained about having to do the booking themselves. His bandmates were about to kill him. He finally agreed, but had huge misgivings about it.

And then, of course, came the worst one of all: I sold my book, he was on the road, he came home and we celebrated. He had a show that night that I went to, and afterwards he was introducing me to a bunch of other musicians he knew, and whenever he introduced me he said, "This is my girlfriend, Sedgwick." And they would say, "We heard you sold a book! Congratulations!" That night we came home, had a nice dinner, had great sex during which he told me he loved me, and then the next morning -- a mere six hours later -- I said, "So, let's talk about when I'm going to meet up with you on this next tour." He'd asked me if I wanted to just a few days before. His response was, "Yeah, we need to talk about that. I just don't think I can be with someone who's not a musician." I asked if he had fallen out of love with me, and he said, "No, but I felt like I might, so I'm breaking up with you before that happens."

Also: to send all this two hours after I had that conversation with my friend, I swear he's psychic or something! WTF does he WANT from me?

Doesn't matter what he wants. IGNORE!!!

Edited January 17, 2010 by sedgwick

January 18, 2010

I'd give it till Sunday (and fully expect to get the CP revisionism spin if he does call at the weekend - "But, we agreed by the end of the week!"). But yeah, 'mid-week' is before Friday by my definition too. How frustrating! Much support going your way.

You could always wait till he does call and then tell him you're 'too tired' to discuss things now...

So the call came in Sunday night, just after 10:00 PM. There was a bunch of small talk at first, I just kind of kicked back in order to listen and see what he had to say. Weeeelllll, lo and behold, he brought things up by saying, "You wanted to talk about the relationship didn't you?" I said, "Yes." And then he proceeded to have a pretty much one sided conversation that went like this: (BTW, I remained calm and unemotional throughout HIS conversation that was mostly with himself). And without futher delay, it went like this:

Him: "I don't know. I'm just not feeling it for you. I don't know why. But I just don't feel it. I was feeling vulnerable over the holidays. I don't know, I don't usually feel that way. I usually get through them just fine. But I was feeling vulnerable and I wanted to see you."

Me: "I'm feeling kind of used. I don't share myself intimately in a casual way."

Him: "What do you mean?? You mean sexually?? Our relationship was never just about sex. We were emotional together too. It was never just about sex. Used emotionally?? I will always love you and care about you. We always enjoy being together."

Me: "And of course, if we enjoy being together so much, I'm going to want to hear from you and see you."

Him: "I know how you feel. I've been in your position. I dated a woman for 2 months and she had walls up and I wondered why. But then I figured there was no sense in asking why because I may never know why. Getting together was a way to see if things would rekindle for us, and they did for you, but not for me. We're not on the same page. I know both of us are mature enough to not want to be with someone just to fight lonliness. And I know for myself I can be alone for a long time. (And then, a perplexed and genuine question of) I don't know how to tell if its forever??????"

Me: "In life, there are never guarantees of forever. Risks are taken in relationships based on mutual acceptance, respect" (he cuts me off and he continues)

Him: "At first I thought maybe I held back because of the move. Now I know we could continue even with the move. I don't know why. It's just a gut feeling and I have to go with my gut. I don't know what you want to do. I know at one time you said you didn't want a friendship. Maybe what we had can't be turned into a friendship. I don't know. Do you want to see each other maybe every once in a blue moon?"

Me: "No, even with my friendships, the people in my life are very close to me. We reach out to each other and keep in touch with each other and don't just drop by because we happen to be in each others area every once in a blue moon."

Him: "Well, I have a friend that lives in (a state 1000 miles away), and she and I see each other maybe once a year, and we talk to each other maybe once a month. And I don't know why I'm not feeling it in this relationship. It's just a gut feeling and I have to go with my gut. It's getting late and I really need to go to bed."

Me: "OK"

Him: "Call me if you ever need to talk."

Me: "Bye"

Him: "Good night."

He went on and on much more this but pretty much just repeating himself saying the same thing over and over and over. I really didn't say much at all. I just let him blurt out his partially reprocessed breakup speech. I swear, half of what he said were his exact words verbatim from the original breakup speech. I reallly think he thought about this alot before he called and may have even written it down because parts of it sounded very scripted. And if he already did this whole routine once, WHY come back for a short interlude just to repeat it all over again!!

What's up with him comparing us to this 2 month relationship he had??? At 2 months he was on fire with me too and I wasn't on HIS page at that point in time! It makes me feel like he's "feeling it" more for this woman in this 2 month relationship than he ever did for me!! That hurt when he said that the jack a$$ and he's too stupid to even know. And what's up with him bringing up some friendship he has with a woman that lives 1000 plus miles away when we live within driving distance??

I thought we went over the "gut" thing when he resurfaced after 5 weeks NC and I told him his "gut $ucked!!" and he agreed and admitted it was anxiety. And as far as the holiday time together, I KNOW he was feeling very connected to me because I KNOW what it feels like when he's diconnected and I KNOW how connected he was when he left!! And the pathetic but genuine, "I don't know how to tell if its forever??????" This is a middle aged man. How did he get this far in life without figuring his $hit out??!!

Save me!!! I'm weak from this and need an interpretation!! Do you think he's gone for good now or is he likely to come attempting to creep back into my life again just to repeat this same $hit all over again. I know . . . I don't ever have to let him back into my life again in any way but the holiday interlude did rekindle some lost hope I had. I can lose it again fast and get back to reality but I need some help. SOS!! I've been hit and hurt by Huricane CP again and I need a life raft!!

January 18, 2010

SOS!! I've been hit and hurt by Huricane CP again and I need a life raft!!

Life raft on the way!

Remember/recite the following:

1) It's not you.

2) You cannot make sense out of madness.

And what a totally, totally frustrating situation! God, I want to throw something at this man for you. Argh.

What's up with him comparing us to this 2 month relationship he had???

Well, from that conversation it sounds like he's comparing your position in this relationship, to his position in that one: you're dealing with someone who has walls up, and you can't work out why they have walls up. It's a bit of a weird thing to say - "she had walls up and I wondered why. But then I figured there was no sense in asking why because I may never know why"? Is that going back to his earlier stuff about saying he was stressing himself out and there was no point in you asking why because why didn't matter? "I've got walls up" isn't quite the same as "I'm not feeling it," though... maybe it is in his head? What a tangled mind.

This is a middle aged man. How did he get this far in life without figuring his $hit out??!!

I am so with you on that one! How do people like this get through an average day, ffs? It is so frustrating. It really does feel like they're detached spectators watching their own minds from a distance, only able to see little bits and pieces at a time, and totally disconnected from being able to actually engage with this stuff inside their heads.

Do you think he's gone for good now or is he likely to come attempting to creep back into my life again just to repeat this same $hit all over again.

Given that:

1) He's disappeared and resurfaced again several times before, not even just once;

2) He's given you the same lines as he did the first time round, and those are lines he's already taken back before ("I feel it in my gut!" -> "Yeah, that's anxiety");

3) You know he was feeling connected over the holidays;

4) Anyone who can fit the words 'I don't know' into a single conversation so many times is not entirely sure of themselves;

.....then yeah, I'd say chances are pretty good he'll turn up again at some point. BUT. If/when he does... is he going to be anywhere near self-aware enough to stick to his decisions and not bounce away again? What are you going to do to protect yourself? You can refuse to let him back into your life ever again - but can you be sure you'd keep to that resolution if he reappears in 2, 6, 12, 36 months, all contrite and admitting his gut is not actually the best judge of his actions? I don't think I'd be able to. But your really good advice to me about deciding upon my own boundaries and my own conditions of what I'd want from having Mr CP in my life, and refusing to accept anything less, that I could do.

And if he reappears with roses again? Make him eat them.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Catseye8

January 18, 2010

There was the time after sex when he said (half-jokingly, but still), "If the bass could f*ck me back, you'd be outta luck." There were the times I wanted him to stay over but he told me he couldn't because he hadn't slept with his bass in a while and she was getting lonely. (He slept with his bass in the bed with him, his guitar at his feet, and his banjo by the side of the bed.)

Musicians really are their own separate species sometimes! This guy seems like a pretty extreme example, though... What does he do apart from play music?

I asked if he had fallen out of love with me, and he said, "No, but I felt like I might, so I'm breaking up with you before that happens."

OMG. Why do they do this? "It's great but it might go bad so let's end it now!" The only thing I can imagine is that in their heads, "it might go bad" is not the same as "it might end" - their version of things going bad involves them totally losing their identity, or being totally abandoned, or something that's worse than just breaking things off? But I still can't really work it out. Seems to be a pretty common CP thing, though...

Doesn't matter what he wants. IGNORE!!!

I am weak and didn't

It is such an awful tangled situation, because my ex has a huge tangled mess of Stuff in his life - depression, grief, whole bunch of messiness. I don't know exactly what the connection is to his CP freakout, but I am pretty sure his CP issues come out of a childhood situation he was in... and now he's having to deal with stuff relating to that childhood situation now, so it's all one big huge messy tangle inside his head now. Plus, the situation with this family member on top of that. And... I've tried to persuade him to admit to and get help for his depression before, with no success... the fact that he's started reaching out, and reaching out to me, now, I don't want to ignore that.

On the other hand, though - I am not his therapist, and I don't want to get trampled into the mud while he leans and leans on me and I get nothing in return. So I sent him a short but friendly reply, sending my best wishes for the family member's situation and telling him that I hoped he was taking care of himself as well as being there for the rest of them (which he totally won't be, because that family is messed up, but oh well).

Oh, this situation is all so upsetting. I miss him like crazy.

January 20, 2010

OMG. Why do they do this? "It's great but it might go bad so let's end it now!" The only thing I can imagine is that in their heads, "it might go bad" is not the same as "it might end" - their version of things going bad involves them totally losing their identity, or being totally abandoned, or something that's worse than just breaking things off? But I still can't really work it out. Seems to be a pretty common CP thing, though....

This is indeed their theme song, "It's ohhhhhhhhh so great, but it might go bad, but it's ohhhhhhhhhh so great, but it might go bad, but its ohhhhhh so great but it might go bad, might go bad, might go bad, might go bad, soooooooooooooooooo, I must end it NOW."

And . . . I might add . . . I really think it does have to do with abandonment which ties into my CP ex-bf in our last conversation saying so child like and with a tone of being completely perplexed and looking for answers, "I don't know how to tell if its forever . . . . ????????" What a friggin' tool!! He's breaking up with me again and asking me this in the context of nothing else that he's saying??!! This just DOESN'T fit into that conversation.

I am weak and didn't

It is such an awful tangled situation, because my ex has a huge tangled mess of Stuff in his life - depression, grief, whole bunch of messiness. I don't know exactly what the connection is to his CP freakout, but I am pretty sure his CP issues come out of a childhood situation he was in... and now he's having to deal with stuff relating to that childhood situation now, so it's all one big huge messy tangle inside his head now. Plus, the situation with this family member on top of that. And... I've tried to persuade him to admit to and get help for his depression before, with no success... the fact that he's started reaching out, and reaching out to me, now, I don't want to ignore that.

On the other hand, though - I am not his therapist, and I don't want to get trampled into the mud while he leans and leans on me and I get nothing in return. So I sent him a short but friendly reply, sending my best wishes for the family member's situation and telling him that I hoped he was taking care of himself as well as being there for the rest of them (which he totally won't be, because that family is messed up, but oh well).

Oh, this situation is all so upsetting. I miss him like crazy.

Don't worry Catseye!! I think you responded appropriately. After all, you offered nothing more than well wishes. I know you miss him but just remember, really, it's only HALF of him and the shiny side of the coin that you miss. You don't miss the flip side or the evil twin that emerges to do the distancing!! And, unless he's gotten some help . . . those unpleasant parts are still part of the package!!

Life raft on the way!

Remember/recite the following:
1) It's not you.
2) You cannot make sense out of madness.

And what a totally, totally frustrating situation! God, I want to throw something at this man for you. Argh.

Thank you for the life raft!! Along with you wanting to throw something at him, I also have male family members and friends who have strongly reacted to these recent antics and pleaded with me that I let them intervene with phone calls and in other ways. . . .One of these male family members, in the past, admonished him, "Don't f with her. I know its hard. I understand, but you've got to decide what you want. Stop giving mixed messages and DON'T f with her." This male family member, who's much bigger than the CP ex-bf, also happened to be here the night he arrived with his roses, but I had asked him to be nice, so he was. I have told my friends and family, "NO!! I do not wish for you to involve yourself. This is my issue and I will deal with it." The thing is if they did call and talk to him, he'd be clueless anyway and they'd probably think he's faking it because who in their right mind can be clueless about this. (hand raises) I know the answer, it's HIM who can be clueless because after all, he's NOT in his right mind!! How in the world did I ever become so emotionally involved and develop a soft spot for someone like this!!

I am so with you on that one! How do people like this get through an average day, ffs? It is so frustrating. It really does feel like they're detached spectators watching their own minds from a distance, only able to see little bits and pieces at a time, and totally disconnected from being able to actually engage with this stuff inside their heads.

Given that:
1) He's disappeared and resurfaced again several times before, not even just once;
2) He's given you the same lines as he did the first time round, and those are lines he's already taken back before ("I feel it in my gut!" -> "Yeah, that's anxiety");
3) You know he was feeling connected over the holidays;
4) Anyone who can fit the words 'I don't know' into a single conversation so many times is not entirely sure of themselves;

.....then yeah, I'd say chances are pretty good he'll turn up again at some point. BUT. If/when he does... is he going to be anywhere near self-aware enough to stick to his decisions and not bounce away again? What are you going to do to protect yourself? You can refuse to let him back into your life ever again - but can you be sure you'd keep to that resolution if he reappears in 2, 6, 12, 36 months, all contrite and admitting his gut is not actually the best judge of his actions? I don't think I'd be able to. But your really good advice to me about deciding upon my own boundaries and my own conditions of what I'd want from having Mr CP in my life, and refusing to accept anything less, that I could do.

And if he reappears with roses again? Make him eat them.

Thanks Catseye!! I guess when I'm going to really need the strength is if he shows up in a few months, and after my emotions have settled about this, all contrite and admitting that his "gut" is out of whack. Even in this recent 50% reprocessed break up speech, there were mixed messages such as "I'll always care about you and I'll always love you," and "I don't know how to tell if its forever????????" (whether what's forever dingbat, us ???, you are after all breaking up with me!!), and "we always enjoy each other" and "our relationship was never just physical, there were emotions involved" (ohhh yaaaaaa freak out boy, out of the total of 3 times that you've stepped into that scary place of actually verbalizing your emotions by saying "I love you," 2 of the times have been during a break up speech!!). And he's so weird that the thing that elicited the strongest emotional response was that I would think that he would use me. He just couldn't handle that I would think that. And once again, this break up speech contained no concrete reason and rested solely in the abstract of a "its a gut feeling" and "not being on the same page" and the new one of "just not feeling it." There wasn't anything at all, absolutely nothing of why his gut feels this way or how we're not on the same page or why he's not feeling it. Not even one thing!! And since he's so perplexed regarding not "knowing how to tell if its forever," perhaps a prerequisite step for him is being able to define for himself exactly what the "it" he's referring to is!! Completely weird!!! Its one thing when its defined, its another thing when its just it!! Q: "Why did your boyfriend break up with you?" A: "Oh, he broke up with me because of it." LOL but it's really not funny!!

January 20, 2010

This is indeed their theme song, "It's ohhhhhhhhh so great, but it might go bad, but it's ohhhhhhhhhh so great, but it might go bad, but its ohhhhhh so great but it might go bad, might go bad, might go bad, might go bad, soooooooooooooooooo, I must end it NOW."

LOL! Yes, that's it exactly. Complete with funky tune and dance troupe.

And . . . I might add . . . I really think it does have to do with abandonment which ties into my CP ex-bf in our last conversation saying so child like and with a tone of being completely perplexed and looking for answers, "I don't know how to tell if its forever . . . . ????????" What a friggin' tool!! He's breaking up with me again and asking me this in the context of nothing else that he's saying??!! This just DOESN'T fit into that conversation.

It really doesn't! What does he mean... he doesn't know how to tell whether the breakup is forever? He doesn't know how to tell whether the relationship is forever? Does he not think that maybe he has some ability to decide those things himself, rather than being all 'omg, I don't know what the future will hold!'? It's so very very odd.

Thank you for the life raft!! Along with you wanting to throw something at him, I also have male family members and friends who have strongly reacted to these recent antics and pleaded with me that I let them intervene with phone calls and in other ways. . . .One of these male family members, in the past, admonished him, "Don't f with her. I know its hard. I understand, but you've got to decide what you want. Stop giving mixed messages and DON'T f with her."

Excellent! Can I borrow him? Sort of reminds me of a dream I had not long after the actual breakup when one of my ex's best friends grabbed him by the shoulders and said "What are you doing to her? Either she's your girlfriend or she's not, but make up your mind before you drive her insane!" Sadly, it was only a dream... How did your ex respond to that family member, btw? Did he at least acknowledge he was giving you mixed messages and being unfair?

The thing is if they did call and talk to him, he'd be clueless anyway and they'd probably think he's faking it because who in their right mind can be clueless about this. (hand raises) I know the answer, it's HIM who can be clueless because after all, he's NOT in his right mind!! How in the world did I ever become so emotionally involved and develop a soft spot for someone like this!!

Ohhhh, but that bright shiny side of the coin... it never seems so absolutely clueless about important things, does it? And it's so hard to believe that these people can get so far in their lives being so totally, totally unaware of their own minds and hearts!

and "our relationship was never just physical, there were emotions involved" (ohhh yaaaaaa freak out boy, out of the total of 3 times that you've stepped into that scary place of actually verbalizing your emotions by saying "I love you," 2 of the times have been during a break up speech!!).

OMG! This man totally gets a place in the CP Hall of Fame.

And he's so weird that the thing that elicited the strongest emotional response was that I would think that he would use me. He just couldn't handle that I would think that.

Ohhh, I remember hearing something quite similar to that once. I accused him of messing me around, and he was really hurt, even though he was happy to admit his actions had messed me around. But he said "That's not the same, I didn't mess you around, I'd never intentionally do that!" Um ok... but... you can do that unintentionally, you know... It was weird. I kept trying to explain "look, if you do XYZ, and XYZ hurts me, and you knew XYZ would hurt me, then it doesn't really matter much to me whether you did XYZ with the intention of hurting me or not - I'm still hurt." But he was just so horrified to think that I'd accuse him of messing me around, because "I never meant to!" But... you... did!

And once again, this break up speech contained no concrete reason and rested solely in the abstract of a "its a gut feeling" and "not being on the same page" and the new one of "just not feeling it." There wasn't anything at all, absolutely nothing of why his gut feels this way or how we're not on the same page or why he's not feeling it. Not even one thing!! And since he's so perplexed regarding not "knowing how to tell if its forever," perhaps a prerequisite step for him is being able to define for himself exactly what the "it" he's referring to is!! Completely weird!!! Its one thing when its defined, its another thing when its just it!! Q: "Why did your boyfriend break up with you?" A: "Oh, he broke up with me because of it." LOL but it's really not funny!!

It is really very strange. And it's not much consolation to think that it doesn't make any sense in his head either! Does 'not feeling it' mean 'not feeling a connection to you' or 'not feeling romantic about this in any way'? Because I'm sure we've all had dates or short relationships where we called it off because things just didn't click... and I know people can fall out of love, sometimes... but surely it doesn't make sense to say 'there's an it that's missing here, even though it wasn't missing before and nothing's actually changed and I have no idea what it would look like if it turned up!"

As for not being on the same page, that seems to me to cover situations like "You want to settle down and get married, and I want something casual" or "I want kids, you don't" or something like that. It's a bit weird to hear it used by someone who can't actually say which page either of you are on, or what he means by it. I think it's the same as my ex saying "I'm not ready to move in with you" - they know that's the line people use, they know it sort-of matches the situation, but calm rational sensible lines like that don't match up with whatever howling vortex of CP weirdness is going on inside their heads.

Don't worry Catseye!! I think you responded appropriately. After all, you offered nothing more than well wishes.

And guess what happened...

He replied, all full of chatty stuff. I didn't respond. He sent another email with a link to something he knew I'd really like. I didn't respond. He sent another email with another link to something I'd like... and I eventually caved and sent him a short response saying briefly "Thanks for that - I have a houseguest staying who's dealing with [stressful situation], and it really cheered him up. Good luck with [work thing he mentioned]. - Catseye." I know, I know, I'm weak... at least I kept it short!

So then, he tracked me down on MSN (which I've known him use precisely once before, when he was first chasing me... I don't think it's a coincidence that suddenly he turns up there the day after I mentioned to people on my blog that I'm on MSN a lot these days, either), and actually had a real-time conversation with me. DEAR GOD! Part of his CP weirdness has been absolutely freaking out about the idea of having any kind of real-time conversation with me, in person or over the phone or over the internet, post-breakup; everything has been via email or text because 'I'm not ready to Talk yet!', so, uh, that was a surprise.

And of course, it was a totally surreal conversation about nothing at all important - his work stuff, my work stuff, work stuff we have in common, his bad family situation, something on TV, etc. Weird. There was one kind of flirty comment (I sort of blinked and ignored that), and he picked up on something from a previous email in which I said I might be moving abroad for work and asked what was happening with that and whether I was or not. It's still up in the air, so I don't know (although I was tempted to say 'Why do you care? You can email me from anywhere!'). I cut it off after about 20 minutes saying I had to get to bed.

And now I'm feeling doubly frustrated, because a) wtf, crazy man and b) the attitude I took towards it was mostly rolling my eyes and 'omg, guess what he's done this time' when I told my friends, and now my friends have hit the roof in about 8 different directions. "You should be angrier!" "Aren't you upset?" "OMG don't you see what this man is DOING to you?" "OMG, how can you be laughing, what are you doing to yourself?" "You should insist on a proper conversation!" "You should hold off on a proper conversation until his tough family situation is over, don't push things at all!" "You should tell him to get out of your life for the next 3 years!" "You should go round to his house and demand to talk in person!" Aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!

I know they want to help, but it's difficult to deal when everyone's got a firm opinion on what I should do, and they're different opinions! I was happy with my decision - go along with this new development for a little while (until something changes or until I get sick of it) to see what he's planning with it, keep my distance and make sure I'm not chasing him, and stay vague on questions about my personal life (heh, let him worry). I'm sure if nothing changes I'll come down with the steel hand of "Either we're talking about our relationship or we're not talking at all, so goodbye" sooner or later, but right now I want to see what happens with this. And my friends... I know they want to help. But it would be so much easier if they could help by acknowledging that it's a really bizarre situation and not a normal breakup and I'm a grownup who can make my own choices about it... right now I feel like whatever choice I make, I'm going to get "You're doing it wrong!" from half of them, and that doesn't help. Sigh.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Catseye8

January 20, 2010

It really doesn't! What does he mean... he doesn't know how to tell whether the breakup is forever? He doesn't know how to tell whether the relationship is forever? Does he not think that maybe he has some ability to decide those things himself, rather than being all 'omg, I don't know what the future will hold!'? It's so very very odd.

It is very odd. I'm presuming that he's thought there is some precise it that he will feel when a relationship is somehow destined to be forever, and he's been just waiting to feel this it within a relationship in order to have the confidence to let go and move to the next level, and now . . . because he's middle aged and still waiting to feel this it, he's finally coming to question and realize that he really doesn't know what this feeling he's been waiting of it really is. In reality, this fits right into the CP thinking that goes kind of like, "When I find the perfect partner, the perfect relationship, I'll just know it and I'll feel it and when this happens, I will fully commit myself to the relationship. I just haven't found it yet." It's the CP escape hatch based on finding the perfect (non-existent) partner and relationship. I'd say he's at least finally coming to question his escape hatch of knowing and finding it. But on the other hand, he's also saying that he doesn't just want to be with someone just to be with someone out of lonliness, he'd rather be alone. He's questioning, but could also choose to be alone justifying it by never finding the perfect partner. No, he doesn't yetrealize that to choose to love is fully within his power, and that love is a risk and love is a choice, although he does realize that being alone is within his power and a product of his choice.It's limited progress, and I'm not imagining or hopeful for any fast and furious forward movement affecting a postive relationship outcome based on this, but what do you think??

Excellent! Can I borrow him? Sort of reminds me of a dream I had not long after the actual breakup when one of my ex's best friends grabbed him by the shoulders and said "What are you doing to her? Either she's your girlfriend or she's not, but make up your mind before you drive her insane!" Sadly, it was only a dream... How did your ex respond to that family member, btw? Did he at least acknowledge he was giving you mixed messages and being unfair?

Sure, you can borrow him any time but with a CP, it likely won't do any good. It happened when he was here for a visit after his move and we were all out at a local pub for food and beverages. He leaned over and kissed me and then my family member (who is quite a bit younger than him) appeared and issued him the edict. He just sat there, his eyes got wide and he listened attentively, but otherwise didn't respond. It was truly an awkward moment and I felt uncomfortable as well. He never mentioned the conversation to me until a breakup conversation when he said, "xxxxxxx has a point. He's right. We really can't stay in limbo. A decision needs to be made. He's right."

Ohhhh, but that bright shiny side of the coin... it never seems so absolutely clueless about important things, does it? And it's so hard to believe that these people can get so far in their lives being so totally, totally unaware of their own minds and hearts.

100% right on!!

OMG! This man totally gets a place in the CP Hall of Fame.

Yes he does!! It's a deeply ingrained and established pattern that he may never choose to examine and become fully self aware of . . . and that, the examination and self awareness, is an absolute prerequisite for change.

Ohhh, I remember hearing something quite similar to that once. I accused him of messing me around, and he was really hurt, even though he was happy to admit his actions had messed me around. But he said "That's not the same, I didn't mess you around, I'd never intentionally do that!" Um ok... but... you can do that unintentionally, you know... It was weird. I kept trying to explain "look, if you do XYZ, and XYZ hurts me, and you knew XYZ would hurt me, then it doesn't really matter much to me whether you did XYZ with the intention of hurting me or not - I'm still hurt." But he was just so horrified to think that I'd accuse him of messing me around, because "I never meant to!" But... you... did!

Ohhhhhhh man, I know this thinking!! I heard the exact same words and rhetoric, "Well, I didn't intend to hurt you!!!" I responded like you, " . . . your intentions don't matter because if you thought about it, you would have known your actions would result in hurt. It was only unintentional because you didn't consider me before you acted in the first place."

And guess what happened...

He replied, all full of chatty stuff. I didn't respond. He sent another email with a link to something he knew I'd really like. I didn't respond. He sent another email with another link to something I'd like... and I eventually caved and sent him a short response saying briefly "Thanks for that - I have a houseguest staying who's dealing with [stressful situation], and it really cheered him up. Good luck with [work thing he mentioned]. - Catseye." I know, I know, I'm weak... at least I kept it short!

Don't cast yourself as weak!! It would be hard not to respond to this "dangling" behavior. I'm not saying this in any judgement of you, rather, it's just an ariel view from my perspective. So he had been throwing out a number of smoke signals to get you to respond, and the one that finally got you to respond was about his family members illness . . . but your response in no way let him know whether you're on the hook, but you did respond which lets him know the doors open a tiny crack . . .

So then, he tracked me down on MSN (which I've known him use precisely once before, when he was first chasing me... I don't think it's a coincidence that suddenly he turns up there the day after I mentioned to people on my blog that I'm on MSN a lot these days, either), and actually had a real-time conversation with me. DEAR GOD! Part of his CP weirdness has been absolutely freaking out about the idea of having any kind of real-time conversation with me, in person or over the phone or over the internet, post-breakup; everything has been via email or text because 'I'm not ready to Talk yet!', so, uh, that was a surprise.

This is not a coincidence. With the door open a tiny crack, he increases the smoke signals to stimulate another response and open the door further.

And of course, it was a totally surreal conversation about nothing at all important - his work stuff, my work stuff, work stuff we have in common, his bad family situation, something on TV, etc. Weird. There was one kind of flirty comment (I sort of blinked and ignored that), and he picked up on something from a previous email in which I said I might be moving abroad for work and asked what was happening with that and whether I was or not. It's still up in the air, so I don't know (although I was tempted to say 'Why do you care? You can email me from anywhere!'). I cut it off after about 20 minutes saying I had to get to bed.

He's fishing around and testing the waters to ascertain exactly where you stand in the relationship and the flirty comment was thrown in for that purpose as well. And . . . the fishing about your moving abroad . . . he's looking for assurance that you're preserved and on the shelf for him. (It's eerily similar to the question my CP ef-bf asked over the holiday as to my plans for a move and then suggesting to me where I could move, all of course within driving distance to him, when he knows I had a plan when I met him to move abroad!!) Whatever you do, don't let him hook you back in without assurance that he's commited to change and meeting your terms and expectations. His ideal is being able to keep you in a relationship with him based on his terms with as little expectation from him as possible!!

And now I'm feeling doubly frustrated, because a) wtf, crazy man and b) the attitude I took towards it was mostly rolling my eyes and 'omg, guess what he's done this time' when I told my friends, and now my friends have hit the roof in about 8 different directions. "You should be angrier!" "Aren't you upset?" "OMG don't you see what this man is DOING to you?" "OMG, how can you be laughing, what are you doing to yourself?" "You should insist on a proper conversation!" "You should hold off on a proper conversation until his tough family situation is over, don't push things at all!" "You should tell him to get out of your life for the next 3 years!" "You should go round to his house and demand to talk in person!" Aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!

I know they want to help, but it's difficult to deal when everyone's got a firm opinion on what I should do, and they're different opinions! I was happy with my decision - go along with this new development for a little while (until something changes or until I get sick of it) to see what he's planning with it, keep my distance and make sure I'm not chasing him, and stay vague on questions about my personal life (heh, let him worry). I'm sure if nothing changes I'll come down with the steel hand of "Either we're talking about our relationship or we're not talking at all, so goodbye" sooner or later, but right now I want to see what happens with this. And my friends... I know they want to help. But it would be so much easier if they could help by acknowledging that it's a really bizarre situation and not a normal breakup and I'm a grownup who can make my own choices about it... right now I feel like whatever choice I make, I'm going to get "You're doing it wrong!" from half of them, and that doesn't help. Sigh.

I know just how frustrating this can be!!! It's like they just don't get it because, it is after all, just sooooooo bizarre!! And I know how hard it is to be faced with this "dangling" behavior by a CP, especially early post breakup, when you're still understandibly hanging onto hope based on the shiny side of the coin. I know!! It's soooo tough. But here's the thing that I wonder . . . does engaging with him in this way put you in any position of feeling like you're walking on eggshells again in order not to damage the hope and possibility of realizing the shiny side of the coin?? I ask this because I think it would for me. And . . . is engaging with him in this way in any way interfering with your healing process of developing the strength you need in order to set your boundaries and terms in order to only engage in a truly healthy relationship with him? Only you can answer these questions and really know if you've got the strength and how engaging with him in this way is impacting you. First and foremost, be true to yourself and do what you need to do to take care of you first!!

Dam& these CPs!!!!!! Now, I want to reach across the ocean and shake the crap out of him and knock some sense into him!!!!!!!!

January 20, 2010

I'm presuming that he's thought there is some precise it that he will feel when a relationship is somehow destined to be forever, and he's been just waiting to feel this it within a relationship in order to have the confidence to let go and move to the next level, and now . . . because he's middle aged and still waiting to feel this it, he's finally coming to question and realize that he really doesn't know what this feeling he's been waiting of it really is.

It really does sound like that. And when you can tell yourself there's an undefinable it that you're missing, then of course, it's not you making the decision to stick where you are and/or panic and run rather than progress the relationship to another level... it's the fault of something totally external, that you can't even blame, and nobody can disagree with you about, because after all you don't know what it is. That really is the kind of thinking that you have to start questioning once you get older and start realise it's not working for you, yeah.

Do you know much about his history? Has he been totally happy with being alone and/or calling off relationships because of the lack of it in the past, and he's just starting to question that now? That's got to be a better hope for change, if so. I think these men really aren't ever going to change until they can get to the realisation of "The way I am acting/thinking is making me unhappy, and I want to change that" - and maybe not even then...

He's questioning, but could also choose to be alone justifying it by never finding the perfect partner. No, he doesn't yetrealize that to choose to love is fully within his power, and that love is a risk and love is a choice, although he does realize that being alone is within his power and a product of his choice.It's limited progress, and I'm not imagining or hopeful for any fast and furious forward movement affecting a postive relationship outcome based on this, but what do you think??

He's getting somewhere if he's realising that he's actually making choices, rather than just playing the hand he's dealt and looking woefully at it (which is what I imagine these guys see themselves as doing!). And when the anxiety subsides and he starts feeling the abandonment part hit again, will he take the next step of "being alone was a choice I made, and it's making me less happy than another choice might have made me"? If he can start linking what he's doing with what he's choosing, that'll be a good step, I think. That's the step from 'My gut says run, so bye!' to 'I am feeling anxiety, and choosing to act/not act based on that feeling'.

Sure, you can borrow him any time but with a CP, it likely won't do any good. It happened when he was here for a visit after his move and we were all out at a local pub for food and beverages. He leaned over and kissed me and then my family member (who is quite a bit younger than him) appeared and issued him the edict. He just sat there, his eyes got wide and he listened attentively, but otherwise didn't respond. It was truly an awkward moment and I felt uncomfortable as well. He never mentioned the conversation to me until a breakup conversation when he said, "xxxxxxx has a point. He's right. We really can't stay in limbo. A decision needs to be made. He's right."

Ooooh yeah... that must've been quite an awkward moment to sit through! I'm thinking that if me and my ex get back together, there are going to be quite a few moments like that from my friends and family. But, well... I think it can't hurt these men to hear someone tell them to get their acts together. I live in hope that after they hear "what are you doing?" about 300 times, it might sink in... and yet, if it hasn't so far...

Ohhhhhhh man, I know this thinking!! I heard the exact same words and rhetoric, "Well, I didn't intend to hurt you!!!" I responded like you, " . . . your intentions don't matter because if you thought about it, you would have known your actions would result in hurt. It was only unintentional because you didn't consider me before you acted in the first place."

Ha, yes! I've been exactly there! That was one of the boundaries I laid down very firmly in the relationship: "we are not going to have discussions about whether or not you intended to hurt me. That's not relevant."

Don't cast yourself as weak!! It would be hard not to respond to this "dangling" behavior. I'm not saying this in any judgement of you, rather, it's just an ariel view from my perspective. So he had been throwing out a number of smoke signals to get you to respond, and the one that finally got you to respond was about his family members illness . . . but your response in no way let him know whether you're on the hook, but you did respond which lets him know the doors open a tiny crack . . .

And he really pounced on that, didn't he? I really do think that going radio silent earlier, after laying down the law that snapping at me was not okay, shook him up a bit.... after all, if I'm not walking on eggshells, I could be walking away altogether...

He's fishing around and testing the waters to ascertain exactly where you stand in the relationship and the flirty comment was thrown in for that purpose as well. And . . . the fishing about your moving abroad . . . he's looking for assurance that you're preserved and on the shelf for him. (It's eerily similar to the question my CP ef-bf asked over the holiday as to my plans for a move and then suggesting to me where I could move, all of course within driving distance to him, when he knows I had a plan when I met him to move abroad!!)

Haha! In my case, the place I'd be moving to would be the other side of the world, so definitely not within driving distance either. The way he asked me about it was just brilliant, actually; I'd dropped it into an email I sent about practical matters earlier, and I wondered if he'd pick up on it, and he did this not-quite-convincing fake-casual oh-I've-just-remembered act in the middle of the conversation. Also, if I moved there it would be because my boss got hired there and took me with him... so what I got from the CP ex was something like "Oh yeah, speaking of jobs, didn't you mention something about eloping to [place] or somewhere like that with your boss? Is that going ahead?" Why yes. Eloping. With my boss. That's totally what I'm doing. wtf! I'm pretty sure he was joking, but, um, what?

Whatever you do, don't let him hook you back in without assurance that he's commited to change and meeting your terms and expectations. His ideal is being able to keep you in a relationship with him based on his terms with as little expectation from him as possible!!

Oh yes! I'm trying to remind myself that seeing the bright shiny side of the coin now is not the same as having this guy in my life committed to working on his Stuff and able to convince me that he can be relied upon to do that.

But here's the thing that I wonder . . . does engaging with him in this way put you in any position of feeling like you're walking on eggshells again in order not to damage the hope and possibility of realizing the shiny side of the coin?? I ask this because I think it would for me. And . . . is engaging with him in this way in any way interfering with your healing process of developing the strength you need in order to set your boundaries and terms in order to only engage in a truly healthy relationship with him? Only you can answer these questions and really know if you've got the strength and how engaging with him in this way is impacting you. First and foremost, be true to yourself and do what you need to do to take care of you first!!

I've been thinking about this too. I think there definitely is a danger of that if I let the communication go on indefinitely without explicitly setting down limits, or strictly enforcing NC until he's able to come to me with something better. So while I'm happy with it in the short term, just to see what he is offering at this point, I know I need to be ready to say "No, that's not enough" - to him and to myself - when it becomes clear that it isn't. (At this stage I really doubt it would be enough!)

Right now I'm waiting to see what he offers, though... because if he does start in with the 'pull' phase of the push-pull thing in earnest, it'll mean more things like kisses at the bottom of emails, and getting that really satisfies me that the mixed signals aren't my imagination! (I know it sounds insane to say I could still doubt the mixed signals at this point, but oh, this man's done a number on my head.) What I want from him isn't a kiss at the bottom of an email - what I want from him is a commitment to be a dedicated, engaged, and aware partner in a relationship! - but the kisses and stuff let me know that he is doing the chasing... and while he's doing the chasing, I can step back again, because he's not chasing me with anywhere near enough to get me.

(He emailed again while I was typing this. Heh.)

Dam& these CPs!!!!!! Now, I want to reach across the ocean and shake the crap out of him and knock some sense into him!!!!!!!!

Ha - we can swap! I'll go and shake your ex, you can come over here and shake mine, and both of them will spend the next few years telling the story in total befuddlement. "I don't know who she was! She just came out of nowhere and started yelling at me that I should make up my ^%$!ing mind and stop messing up a good relationship with a really wonderful woman! I don't know how she even knew..."

January 21, 2010

It really does sound like that. And when you can tell yourself there's an undefinable it that you're missing, then of course, it's not you making the decision to stick where you are and/or panic and run rather than progress the relationship to another level... it's the fault of something totally external, that you can't even blame, and nobody can disagree with you about, because after all you don't know what it is. That really is the kind of thinking that you have to start questioning once you get older and start realise it's not working for you, yeah.

I really think this is the case. The "I'll know it when I feel it" isn't cutting the mustard for him anymore, so, he's digging a little deeper with, "I don't know how to tell if its forever." I have no idea of where this will lead in regard to his relationship with me but hopefully, it will lead him to a more self aware and fulfilling life!!

Do you know much about his history? Has he been totally happy with being alone and/or calling off relationships because of the lack of it in the past, and he's just starting to question that now? That's got to be a better hope for change, if so. I think these men really aren't ever going to change until they can get to the realisation of "The way I am acting/thinking is making me unhappy, and I want to change that" - and maybe not even then...

As far as calling relationships off due to a lack of it, from our conversations, I suspect there's been alot of this and that it generally happens before he develops an attachment and the lack of it hastypically been defined concretely in his past relationships giving him a seemingly reasonable escape hatch. He's had many very short term dating experiences and very few relationships of any real substance. The one LT relationship he described was an on again/off again, drama filled and volitile relationship that spanned 7 years. As far as our relationship, I think what he finds frustrating is that he can't find anything concrete to pin the lack of it on and it's unsettled him and made him think. Once he said, "I've never understood this relationship" and then of course the breakup(s) due solely to (his words) a "gut feeling" and "no logic" and "not feeling it" with nothing concrete to substantiate his thoughts and feelings and subsequent flight. So . . . from our conversations, I know he's been deeply questioning the logic to his escape hatch in regard to me and our relationship and would likley love nothing more than to find some concrete reason for his flight so he could feel settled that his behavior is logical and reasonable. It hasn't happened for him and that's why I think he keeps coming back. But it may produce absolutely nothing of substance in regard to us, but maybe it will produce something of substance in regard to him and he can live a more fulfilling life!!

I know that he's told me that he can go a long time without a relationship, and I really believe this is the case!! But as far as being happy alone . . . I don't think he is currently due to his complaints of lonliness . . . but maybe he was in the past. But . . . at least he's thinking about being alone in the context of a choice. I know he's struggling with these thoughts and choices regarding being alone currently.

He's getting somewhere if he's realising that he's actually making choices, rather than just playing the hand he's dealt and looking woefully at it (which is what I imagine these guys see themselves as doing!). And when the anxiety subsides and he starts feeling the abandonment part hit again, will he take the next step of "being alone was a choice I made, and it's making me less happy than another choice might have made me"? If he can start linking what he's doing with what he's choosing, that'll be a good step, I think. That's the step from 'My gut says run, so bye!' to 'I am feeling anxiety, and choosing to act/not act based on that feeling'.

Hopefully he'll link his knowing that being alone is a choice, to understanding that love and commitment are also a choice, and isolate that his panic and instinct to run is not due to a lack of his abstract and undefined it. An epiphany of this sort may not result in a healthy relationship with me , but it may result in him finally being able to sustain and experience a healthy commited relationship with someone else.

And he really pounced on that, didn't he? I really do think that going radio silent earlier, after laying down the law that snapping at me was not okay, shook him up a bit.... after all, if I'm not walking on eggshells, I could be walking away altogether...

Yes!! He did pounce on that!! And I'm sure the radio silence and setting a boundary did shake him up and into the knowledge that you really can walk away!!

Haha! In my case, the place I'd be moving to would be the other side of the world, so definitely not within driving distance either. The way he asked me about it was just brilliant, actually; I'd dropped it into an email I sent about practical matters earlier, and I wondered if he'd pick up on it, and he did this not-quite-convincing fake-casual oh-I've-just-remembered act in the middle of the conversation. Also, if I moved there it would be because my boss got hired there and took me with him... so what I got from the CP ex was something like "Oh yeah, speaking of jobs, didn't you mention something about eloping to [place] or somewhere like that with your boss? Is that going ahead?" Why yes. Eloping. With my boss. That's totally what I'm doing. wtf! I'm pretty sure he was joking, but, um, what?

This is an attempt at brilliance that is totally transparent to you and me!! It's like, "I must not let on that I actually care about her and that she'd be moving, so I must veil it in a casual and humorous context in order to find the answer and act as though I don't really care!!" LOL!! This nonsense is actually quite funny sometimes. Are these really grown men that we're dealing with???!!!

I've been thinking about this too. I think there definitely is a danger of that if I let the communication go on indefinitely without explicitly setting down limits, or strictly enforcing NC until he's able to come to me with something better. So while I'm happy with it in the short term, just to see what he is offering at this point, I know I need to be ready to say "No, that's not enough" - to him and to myself - when it becomes clear that it isn't. (At this stage I really doubt it would be enough!)

Right now I'm waiting to see what he offers, though... because if he does start in with the 'pull' phase of the push-pull thing in earnest, it'll mean more things like kisses at the bottom of emails, and getting that really satisfies me that the mixed signals aren't my imagination! (I know it sounds insane to say I could still doubt the mixed signals at this point, but oh, this man's done a number on my head.) What I want from him isn't a kiss at the bottom of an email - what I want from him is a commitment to be a dedicated, engaged, and aware partner in a relationship! - but the kisses and stuff let me know that he is doing the chasing... and while he's doing the chasing, I can step back again, because he's not chasing me with anywhere near enough to get me.

(He emailed again while I was typing this. Heh.)

I would step back and not respond to everything, but respond randomly and infrequently if at all. I'm just afraid for you because I know I'd have trouble with LC (limited contact) and likely get roped into inadvertantly thinking at some point, "Well if I don't respond, he may pull away and be gone forever!!!" I also wouldn't doubt that he'll send frequent correspondence and then all at once decrease the frequency in order to draw you in. So . . . be prepared!! Remember, inconsistency is the only thing thats consistent with these guys!! Right now I really think he's pulling out all stops to get you back but on his terms!!

The other thing I worry about is that engaging with them gets us thinking more about them and occupying more space in our head. I wouldn't be back here needing support and processing my experience if I had stuck to NC and kept Hurricane CP at a distance until I had greater assurance. They're quite clever in the way they maneuver back in.

One blessing as a result of this recent Hurricane CP experience is coming to know and connect with you, your wisdom, your humor, and your insight. I thank you for it!!

Ha - we can swap! I'll go and shake your ex, you can come over here and shake mine, and both of them will spend the next few years telling the story in total befuddlement. "I don't know who she was! She just came out of nowhere and started yelling at me that I should make up my ^%$!ing mind and stop messing up a good relationship with a really wonderful woman! I don't know how she even knew..."

This really would be a hilarious sight to behold!!!! LOL!! Stay strong, guard your heart, and don't get sucked into Hurricane CP II while you're still repairing the damage from Hurricane CP I. I can tell you, even down the road with distance from this experience, they can still come roaring in, whirl you around so as to twist your mind up and cause damage. I know due to my recent stupid mistake of not nailing up the shutters and baricading the door!!!!

January 21, 2010

I really think this is the case. The "I'll know it when I feel it" isn't cutting the mustard for him anymore, so, he's digging a little deeper with, "I don't know how to tell if its forever." I have no idea of where this will lead in regard to his relationship with me but hopefully, it will lead him to a more self aware and fulfilling life!!

Do you think his CP issues affect him in other parts of his life too? I know one of the hallmarks of severe CP tendencies is meant to be that they can't commit to anything, and that can't be a satisfying way to live. I was wondering this about my ex, and I'm really not sure... on one hand, he doesn't seem to have any problems with making plans or commitments to the future in a lot of aspects, but on the other, there was an awful lot of "my life will be better when this is different" stuff that he attached to things like his career (unsettled) and his living situation (temporary)!

Once he said, "I've never understood this relationship" and then of course the breakup(s) due solely to (his words) a "gut feeling" and "no logic" and "not feeling it" with nothing concrete to substantiate his thoughts and feelings and subsequent flight. So . . . from our conversations, I know he's been deeply questioning the logic to his escape hatch in regard to me and our relationship and would likley love nothing more than to find some concrete reason for his flight so he could feel settled that his behavior is logical and reasonable. It hasn't happened for him and that's why I think he keeps coming back. But it may produce absolutely nothing of substance in regard to us, but maybe it will produce something of substance in regard to him and he can live a more fulfilling life!!

Oh, I bet he'd like to find some concrete reason! It must be deeply, deeply frustrating to someone who thinks of themselves as logical to know that they're acting for reasons they don't understand and can't explain. But, of course, even if he does think of a concrete reason, that still won't entirely satisfy him, because he's still going to know that he had to think up a logical reason after the fact. And long after the fact!

Hopefully he'll link his knowing that being alone is a choice, to understanding that love and commitment are also a choice, and isolate that his panic and instinct to run is not due to a lack of his abstract and undefined it. An epiphany of this sort may not result in a healthy relationship with me , but it may result in him finally being able to sustain and experience a healthy commited relationship with someone else.

Does he have anyone in his life that he speaks to about emotions, or life-changing choices, or such matters? He might get there all by himself in his head... but if he's got someone to bounce ideas off as he's working through them (other than you, in repeated make-up/break-up phone calls!), that might speed the process up?

This is an attempt at brilliance that is totally transparent to you and me!! It's like, "I must not let on that I actually care about her and that she'd be moving, so I must veil it in a casual and humorous context in order to find the answer and act as though I don't really care!!" LOL!! This nonsense is actually quite funny sometimes. Are these really grown men that we're dealing with???!!!

I know, it's fantastic! I actually did laugh out loud. And the possibility of moving abroad yet is still undecided, so I just told him I didn't know whether or not that was happening yet. Didn't even respond to the idea of eloping with my boss! (One of my friends said "Oh, you should have told him you've already left, you're talking to him from [far-away place] now, but you have to go because it's 3am in your time zone and your boss is calling you back to bed.")

I would step back and not respond to everything, but respond randomly and infrequently if at all. I'm just afraid for you because I know I'd have trouble with LC (limited contact) and likely get roped into inadvertantly thinking at some point, "Well if I don't respond, he may pull away and be gone forever!!!" I also wouldn't doubt that he'll send frequent correspondence and then all at once decrease the frequency in order to draw you in. So . . . be prepared!!

Yep - both of those are exactly what I'm worried about - that I'll end up biting my nails and walking on eggshells, and always checking my email for the latest message from him... that's not going to be a good mental place to be in. Have to watch out for this!

One of the tricks I'm trying to use right now is taking all my positive feelings from any interactions with him - all the satisfying "ah-ha, he is still interested!" stuff - and channeling it elsewhere, to focus on me. Like: "Okay, knowing he's emailed me yet again makes me feel quite happy. So I'm going to take that happy feeling, and use it to motivate myself to get my sketchpad and pencils out and start drawing again." I'm not sure how well this will work, though! Another is to, like you said, not respond to everything, and not respond with as much detail as he's giving me when I do.

Remember, inconsistency is the only thing thats consistent with these guys!! Right now I really think he's pulling out all stops to get you back but on his terms!!

And his terms suck! It's weird because on one level he's acting very like he did when he was first chasing me, he really is... but on another level, you can't just rewind a relationship, for crying out loud!

Right now he's hugely interested in a situation that's going on in my life with a friend's baby. He does not know this friend; he's never met the baby; he isn't even particularly interested in babies; but suddenly, he's emailing me from another country (he's on a work trip abroad at the moment) to ask what's going on with that and oooh, cute baby, any updates? Etc. Uh-huh... I keep trying to think of any situation in which I'd be acting like that around an ex, or even just a platonic friend, and coming up blank!

I really don't know what to hope for with this man. I'm trying to sort through the odds in my head...

Reasons to be hopeful:

- We did pretty much agree that the breakup wasn't permanent, or at least wasn't necessarily permanent, the week after he left, and since then the agreement's been that this is 'time and space apart for now', and we're going to Talk in the future;

- Even when he was calling it permanent, he was saying "but I'll probably try to come crawling back";

- He does acknowledge that he has a problem, and that it's a problem he wants to change because it's making him really miserable;

- He was very much in love with me all through the relationship, and even the last thing he said to me on his way out of the door was that his feelings for me hadn't changed;

- I'm pretty sure he's getting counselling now (although likely for the big huge mess of Stuff he's got going round his head, depression, etc);

- He's clearly not moving on and forgetting about me at the moment!

Reasons not to be:

- He cut and ran once... if he came back, who's to say he wouldn't just do it again?

- And how could you even totally trust someone who ran because the relationship was good, anyway?

- I suspect his CP issues come out of a whole big mess of past stuff that he's not dealt with, and that might take a long, long time to sort through;

- For all the contact, he's not actually been asking me to get back together with him;

- Wouldn't it just be easier for him to find someone to be with who doesn't have any reason to be annoyed with him, someone he can just start over again with with a totally blank slate? Okay, so right now he clearly doesn't want me gone from his life, but if he meets someone cool tomorrow, then why wouldn't he just drop me and go for that? Bah.

One blessing as a result of this recent Hurricane CP experience is coming to know and connect with you, your wisdom, your humor, and your insight. I thank you for it!!

And the same in return, very much so! It'd be good to stay in touch even when the waves of Hurricane CP have subsided

January 22, 2010

Do you think his CP issues affect him in other parts of his life too? I know one of the hallmarks of severe CP tendencies is meant to be that they can't commit to anything, and that can't be a satisfying way to live. I was wondering this about my ex, and I'm really not sure... on one hand, he doesn't seem to have any problems with making plans or commitments to the future in a lot of aspects, but on the other, there was an awful lot of "my life will be better when this is different" stuff that he attached to things like his career (unsettled) and his living situation (temporary)

Yes, I think the issues did affect other aspects, specifically housing, with never having LT plans of being settled into one house, but he was consistent and lived very long term in one area. I think now, he is finally settled into staying in a house and has even worked to make it look more homey, which is a new thing for him.

As far as employment, there haven't been frequent shifts, but there have been some. I think he finally feels somewhat settled and established in this area of his life as well.

So . . . I think now, at this stage of his life, he really wants to settle into a commited LT relationship . . . when he finds the it, the one. (Never mind that in reality there really is more than one "right one" in this lifetime and these things often center on timing as much as anything else.) I think this is part of the reason for his recent soul search regarding this aspect of his life. But, he's also said he'd rather be alone than settling for something other than it. So . . . I'm certain he's searching inside and outside for it and coming to accept that if he doesn't find it he will live alone. He just doesn't fully know what it is for him yet. And . . . he may very well find it with someone who doesn't feel it for him which again keeps him safe as a CP. And . . . I also have to accept that the it he is looking for may not reside in me or us as a couple. As it stands now, I'm pretty clear that currently he doesn't think it does, but I'm also clear that he's not clear on what it is for him and how it will feel, and how to tell if he's found it. Wouldn't you think he'd be clear by now where I am in relation to his it???!!!! I really need your completly honest insight into this question. I'm keeping in mind that the side of the equation that I control is whether I ever engage with him again, but I'd really appreciate your input because this question really bugs me!! Do you think he has it at least figured out enough to rule me out as a maybe and just leave me alone??!! I really need an honest (not to appease me) answer.

Oh, I bet he'd like to find some concrete reason! It must be deeply, deeply frustrating to someone who thinks of themselves as logical to know that they're acting for reasons they don't understand and can't explain. But, of course, even if he does think of a concrete reason, that still won't entirely satisfy him, because he's still going to know that he had to think up a logical reason after the fact. And long after the fact!

Well . . . one thing I do know is that at some level he knows he held back during the relationship and has been questioning why. (It proves that he was projecting when he resurfaced the first time and said to me, "You're hiding!! You're holding back"). During our most recent convervsation he said, "I questioned whether I held back because I knew I might be moving and now we know its not that." His only reasonable escape hatch, the move, could have been easily overcome and now he agrees with me, so following his line of reasoning, he didn't really hold back because of the move . . . so what was it that really made him and continues to make him hold back!! I doubt he's carried his line of reasoning to this point and is likely stuck on "I've ruled out the move as the reason for holding back and I'm still holding back so therefore my reason must be valid" never taking it the step further to isolate the reason. (raises hand: Oh yes, I know the real reason, the real reason is it!!) You know, come to think of it, I responded to his saying, "I questioned whether I held back because I knew I might be moving and now we know its not that." with, "Well, we really don't know, you pulled away based on the move and we didn't go further and what if . . . " he then abruptly cut me off with, "Well there's always the what ifs, it's like with this girl (his recent 2 month relationship), I could try to find out why, but then I thought, I may never get an answer to why." (I guess he's let go of trying to figure out why with relation to her, but what about with relation to me?? With them, the reasons were hers, but with us, the reasons were/are his.) That's when I asked, "What is this relationship you're referring to?" Obviously he didn't want to go futher with his line of reasoning regarding us, and deflected to his 2 month relationship with this girl.

And regarding deflection to his 2-month relationship wtf is up with that??!! Why deflect from talking about us to his recent very short 2 month relationship. I'm sure he's had many 2-monthers over the course of his long single life!! Can this 2-monther really be all that significant to him?????!! wtf And no freak-out boy, your 2 month relationship is not like ours because a) it was very short b) she may have had valid yet unexpressed reasons for discontinuing c) she made a clean break and didn't obsess over the breakup running hot and cold and freaking out all over the place for 2 months; your entire relationship with her lasted for a total of 2 months d) she hasn't and likely won't keep on resurfacing, reconnecting, and then freaking out and running away. If he wants to compare our relationship to that one, he could at least compare it to where he was in regard to me at 2 months which was seemingly "all in," obsessed with repeated requests to define us, and asking for reassurance that I wasn't going to bail!! Can he really be that stupid to not realize and remember where he was in regard to me and our relationshp at 2 months??

I know he's told me more than once that he thinks about this (our relationship) a lot and now I'm beginning to believe him and realize just how much of a mind altering experience this has been for him. It ties in with his stating, "I've never understood this relationship." Ditto to that statement . . . and one things for certain . . . I'm glad I'm not the one living in his mind trying to figure it out!! It's mf-ing enough to live outside of his mind and attemt to understand it and figure it out!! Maybe its all just too much for him and he'll jump into some new relationship where he can remain in denial and not have be stressed out by actually having to face himself and think. I think he's used to feeling a much greater sense of control in relationships and has had past relationships with unstable women who likely tend to freak out giving him a reasonable escape hatch. I remember him once saying to me, "You must be crazy." I said, "Whaaat??" He said, "All my girlfriends have been crazy." I said, "Well, everyone is a little crazy." He looked me square in the eye and said, "No, you don't understand, I mean really crazy." I said, "Well I'm not crazy!" Who knows, maybe he drove them to insanity!! If someone unstable was involved with him, I can only imagine the dynamics and drama!! Maybe crazy girlfriends are more his cup of tea so he doesn't have to focus so much on his own craziness!!

Does he have anyone in his life that he speaks to about emotions, or life-changing choices, or such matters? He might get there all by himself in his head... but if he's got someone to bounce ideas off as he's working through them (other than you, in repeated make-up/break-up phone calls!), that might speed the process up?

Well . . . I know that he's been treated for depression in the past, but I don't know if he's seeing anyone now. I know that when we were together, he had an ex-gf that he had a 3 month relationship-turned friendship with, and they used to bounce their relationship issues off each other. This used to bug me a bit because she had a real jealousy toward me, even though I didn't even know her, and I thought . . . he must be getting some really objective advice from her regarding us!! I know that he also mentioned that he was talking to a "couple of men" about our relationship when he resurfaced the first time. Other than that, I don't really know. I don't think he has many people he's close to in his life.

Come to think of it, when he resurfaced the first time, he said he was talking with a male friend who asked if we were still together. When he said "No," the male friend responded, "Then you used her for sex." and this really bugged him out, the suggestion that he used me!! wtf is up with all his freaking out behavior at the suggestion that he used me!!! This is what really bugged him out during our recent conversation, when I said I felt kind of used! I guess he's ruled usage out in a big way in trying to understand our relationship and the suggestion really sets him off. I guess it's kind of like when we're trying to understand the relationship and someone suggests to us, "He's just not that into you." Or who tf knows!!

Sorry about being so long winded in my responses. It's been therapeutic in putting some of the puzzle pieces together in processing this experience constructively and your responses are extremely helpful!!

Yep - both of those are exactly what I'm worried about - that I'll end up biting my nails and walking on eggshells, and always checking my email for the latest message from him... that's not going to be a good mental place to be in. Have to watch out for this!

Yes, keep an eye out for this because if you start to depend on interaction from him to remain in a postive place it could interfere with your healing and sense of personal strength.

One of the tricks I'm trying to use right now is taking all my positive feelings from any interactions with him - all the satisfying "ah-ha, he is still interested!" stuff - and channeling it elsewhere, to focus on me. Like: "Okay, knowing he's emailed me yet again makes me feel quite happy. So I'm going to take that happy feeling, and use it to motivate myself to get my sketchpad and pencils out and start drawing again." I'm not sure how well this will work, though! Another is to, like you said, not respond to everything, and not respond with as much detail as he's giving me when I do.

Like you, I'd be getting those same positive feelings from interactions with him and knowing he's still interested. I think its great to channel those feelings to doing things for yourself but . . . how will you be if he pulls back . . . will you have come to depend on those happy feelings from the interactions and be weakened so as to be drawn back in on substandard terms?? Because like you said:

And his terms suck!

Yes!! So maybe, as way to protect yourself, taking a step back and refocusing on your terms in a very concrete way is in order. Because remember, if he's still CP, once he senses that you're "in" he's likely to pull away, and where will that leave you if you've come to depend on the good feelings from your interactions.

It's weird because on one level he's acting very like he did when he was first chasing me, he really is... but on another level, you can't just rewind a relationship, for crying out loud!

While mine prefers "pause," yours prefers "rewind!" LOL!! Seriously though, you're right!! You can't go back to the beginning of the relationship and wipe out the history as though it didn't occur. You have a relationship history, and where that story left off was with him freaking and bailing after commiting to move in together. So . . . take the story forward from there, from where it really left off, not from where he wants to start from the rewind. Don't let him control the relationship. Has he mentioned anything about exploring his reasons for freaking and bailing and how he's working to get himself in a healthy place and ready to have an adult relationship. Or, if he's not mentioning it, are you getting any indication that he's moving in this direction??

Right now he's hugely interested in a situation that's going on in my life with a friend's baby. He does not know this friend; he's never met the baby; he isn't even particularly interested in babies; but suddenly, he's emailing me from another country (he's on a work trip abroad at the moment) to ask what's going on with that and oooh, cute baby, any updates? Etc. Uh-huh... I keep trying to think of any situation in which I'd be acting like that around an ex, or even just a platonic friend, and coming up blank!

He's attempting to ratchet up the frequency of communication in order to rebuild the relationship with you. I have no doubt that this is the case. But . . . the real question becomes whether he's ready to rebuild a commited healthy adult relationship with you as defined by your terms, or is he looking to rebuild the relationship based solely on his terms.

I really don't know what to hope for with this man. I'm trying to sort through the odds in my head...

Reasons to be hopeful:
- We did pretty much agree that the breakup wasn't permanent, or at least wasn't necessarily permanent, the week after he left, and since then the agreement's been that this is 'time and space apart for now', and we're going to Talk in the future;
- Even when he was calling it permanent, he was saying "but I'll probably try to come crawling back";
- He does acknowledge that he has a problem, and that it's a problem he wants to change because it's making him really miserable;
- He was very much in love with me all through the relationship, and even the last thing he said to me on his way out of the door was that his feelings for me hadn't changed;
- I'm pretty sure he's getting counselling now (although likely for the big huge mess of Stuff he's got going round his head, depression, etc);
- He's clearly not moving on and forgetting about me at the moment!

OK, you've had some time and space apart, but is there specific Talk that you need in order to feel comfortable reconnecting with him? Crawling back means begging someone to take them back as a partner in a relationship. From what you've said regarding your communication, it doesn't seem like he's doing that . . . just yet. He acknowledges that he has a problem, that he wants to change and may be getting counseling but more important is whether his actions denote a change. I have no doubt that he hasn't forgotten you and moved on and I have no doubt that he's still in love with you and loves you but can he currently act on his feelings of love in a healthy and adult way rather than his previous way which was by freaking and running?

Reasons not to be:
- He cut and ran once... if he came back, who's to say he wouldn't just do it again?
- And how could you even totally trust someone who ran because the relationship was good, anyway?
- I suspect his CP issues come out of a whole big mess of past stuff that he's not dealt with, and that might take a long, long time to sort through;
- For all the contact, he's not actually been asking me to get back together with him;
- Wouldn't it just be easier for him to find someone to be with who doesn't have any reason to be annoyed with him, someone he can just start over again with with a totally blank slate? Okay, so right now he clearly doesn't want me gone from his life, but if he meets someone cool tomorrow, then why wouldn't he just drop me and go for that? Bah.

Yes, he cut and ran once because of CP and the key question is whether he has worked through his CP issues no matter where they stem from. I believe it's possible, but the CP has to be self motivated to change. Yes, it may take a long time. I believe that anyone in a relationship with a CP has to be willing to be in it for the long haul with no guarantees and sometimes it gets to a point where its just not worth it. You're right, there's lots of small talk and very little of substance about the relationship and getting back together. So, back to your good points, maybe there's a particular type of "Talk" you need to hear in order to continue to reconnect with him. Only you can decide this for yourself what you need in order to continue to reconnect with him.

Finally, regarding your final point of "Reasons not to be" I have exactly the same thoughts of it being easier with someone else as posted earlier in this entry!! I also refuse to be placed on a shelf while someone goes fishing for a replacement which is why I refused to maintain a relationship with him of any kind when he broke up. It's this resurfacing crap that messes you about. It's like, "Go away, and only come back if you've worked through your CPism and are ready to act like an adult and engage in a healthy adult relationship. Otherwise, just go away and leave me alone!!" And at 5 weeks post breakup, when he resurfaced, I put huge walls up and enforced this and it's a good thing I did, because I was a

he[[ of a lot more vulnerable then than I am now. And even now, after time and distance from him, connecting with him again has caused angst. Stay strong and think about what you want and need!!

And the same in return, very much so! It'd be good to stay in touch even when the waves of Hurricane CP have subsided

I sent you a PM on LS with contact info.

Not coping, after breakup with CP man

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