mikeymad Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I just got served divorce papers.....what do I do??????? Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Sorry man. Do you have a lawyer? If not, find one. If you do, he/she needs to see the papers. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 1. Read them 2. Research what you have read 3. Decide if, based on what you know and what your dynamic is with your partner, you need paid legal advice. Generally, a consultation is free. I'd suggest three. IME, knowledge is the best tool. Learn. Process. Accept. TBH, it's one of the few times I've been happy to see a sheriff with a gun Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 There's no decision to make about IF you need paid legal advice. You do. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I disagree. I'll share the results of that perspective in another three months when our D is final. Each situation is different. Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 She has a lawyer. He needs a lawyer. We're talking about the rest of his life here. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 He didn't say that in his OP. I assume this will be a contested, non-amicable divorce. In that case, legal help is unfortunately a necessity. Figure about 10% of net worth. For myself, it was better to mediate and keep the lawyers out of it. Link to post Share on other sites
seibert253 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 If she's filed then chances are she's got an Attorney. He needs one too. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The petition will have the attorney's name on it, at least here in Cali, if an attorney is representing the petitioner. We filed without an attorney. It's not rocket science. I file lawsuits in court without an attorney. Won a few; lost a few. Life goes on. 250-350/hr means something to me. Crunch the numbers and make a decision. We were looking at about 50K in legal fees and forensic accounting costs. No thanks. I'll find another way. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 it was papers from an attorney. She told me "I need this". Ultimately you and I never wanted the same things. Red flags I didn't pay enough attention to. So things are going to get figured out now." Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The petition will have the attorney's name on it, at least here in Cali, if an attorney is representing the petitioner. We filed without an attorney. It's not rocket science. I file lawsuits in court without an attorney. Won a few; lost a few. Life goes on. 250-350/hr means something to me. Crunch the numbers and make a decision. We were looking at about 50K in legal fees and forensic accounting costs. No thanks. I'll find another way. Hi Carhill You are right in one respect it is possible IF a D is truely amicable to file without a lawyer, however most D's are not amicable and even those that begin that way can turn nasty very very quickly, people suddenly stop being amicable when they realise that actually they have no love left for this person and they start to think only of themself. I am a law student in the UK, please just trust me on this, the law is very complex, more than you would ever imagine. I used to think, yeah it's difficult but hey it can't be that hard right? Well, trust me, it is so complex and interwoven, until you begin to study it you cannot comprehend it. Please anyone out there who is getting D, your lawyer is an essential, those $ you spend are the best $ you will ever spend, b/c your lawyer is there to protect YOUR interests. Yes of course they are there to make money, but they can only do that and continue to do that if they are fighting for their client. A lawyer without clients is not a lawyer! Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Like I said, figure combined legal fees and court costs of about 10% of your net worth. Great example. We file papers with court. Filing and service fees = 390.00. If I filed a response, another filing fee. Then, first hour with the lawyer = free, but they require a 5K retainer to get started, for my side. Stbx similar. There's 10K + filing fees. Each time you utter a word to a lawyer or they perform an action, even looking up a phone number, you pay their hourly rate. Tic-toc. I'd suggest, if possible, trying mediation. If the two of you can't be in the same room without hurling insults at each other, then I guess you'll just have to liquidate and pay a lawyer, assuming you're not independently wealthy, which I took to be self-evident by the tone of the OP. My best advice is to retain a calm perspective. Everything takes time. Make each decision deliberately and with reflection. Hope it works out... Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Lisa, with due respect, the law is complex to keep those who made it that way in business. Most legislators are lawyers. As a conscientious anarchist, I shun the traditions of such a government and choose to do things differently. In our case, both my stbx and I wanted to keep as much of our asset value in our pockets and out of those of the government and lawyers. My stbx has a track record of this (her two prior M's) so I know she has the will and the means and the desire. I'm in no way advising the OP to not use a lawyer. I told him to review his situation, obtain three consults if he found his circustances warranted, and then make a decision. Hope that makes sense Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Lisa, with due respect, the law is complex to keep those who made it that way in business. Most legislators are lawyers. As a conscientious anarchist, I shun the traditions of such a government and choose to do things differently. In our case, both my stbx and I wanted to keep as much of our asset value in our pockets and out of those of the government and lawyers. My stbx has a track record of this (her two prior M's) so I know she has the will and the means and the desire. I'm in no way advising the OP to not use a lawyer. I told him to review his situation, obtain three consults if he found his circustances warranted, and then make a decision. Hope that makes sense Carhill, I agree with you totally, but the fact remains that despite the reason it is complex, it is complex. Here is just one example- You file all the papers, you do everything you know to do and think you need to do to get D. You take your name off the joint account at the bank. What you don't know b/c you have no legal training is that a trace, a link remains on that account. Years later, your X has been running up bad debt, maxing out the credit cards, defaulting on mortgage repayments, the baliffs at your door. Guess what? YES YOU ARE LIABLE. That is a true story, happens here in the UK everyday. That is why you need a lawyer. If you are sick do you go to a doctor or do you diagnose yourself and self medicate? I know the law is the way it is and made to be complicated by those who make it, to stop the laymen from being able to negotiate their way through it, but that doesn't change the fact that in the vast majority of cases you need someone who has spent 4 years learning how to negotiate it to negotiate it for you. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 If she has a lawyer, i pretty much have to get one or i'm screwed. I guess this is tough on my pride. I mean I'm friggin 27 years old, a doctor, and she can't even stay with me past our first year of marriage? she says she is going to call before she goes to counseling tonight. Should I engage? Be cool, calm, collected and agree with her? At this point I doubt it matters much to her that she destroyed my life, planted my roots for her ( i have a private practice that is only 2 mi from house), and was willing to do whatever it took to make the marriage work. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Oh, OP, forgot with all that lawyer stuff...... far prior, with legal help, I worked out a 'plan B', something my business colleagues call an 'exit plan' as a alternative to the pre-nup I had neglected to pursue. I won't make that mistake again. A pre-nup is far more cost-effective, IMO Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Lisa, my stbx and I had no joint bank or credit card accounts. I maintained a specific paper trail for all separately owned property. Like I said, our situation is perhaps different. She owned her own business and made more money than me. It's to her advantage to be amicable. Actually, to both our advantages. We settled up our quasi-marital property prior to filing and will merely sign a waiver of final disclosure and the appropriate settlement agreement. I understand it might be different in the UK, so your perspective is well taken and the OP should, as I mentioned in my first post, research the relevant procedures in *his* jurisdiction. In Cali, the court system makes it easy. They are very helpful. I like it when my taxes actually return a benefit OP, TBH, in your situation, as a doctor with a young practice (now I'm remembering your story), I would talk with your wife as little as possible and keep everything measured and business-like. This has worked really well for us. Talk to some of your colleagues and get referals to three lawyers and interview them. IME, referrals are important. Make sure at least one of the referrals is a female attorney. You're a doctor and a businessperson. You didn't get that way by accident. Now it's time to put all that training to good use in your personal life. Link to post Share on other sites
floridapad Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Mike, Agree with her feelings not with financial settlements. Leave that up to the attorney. This is the beginning. If she says she needs this beleive her. Tell her you love her and if this is what she needs then you will give it to her. DON'T ARGUE with her. There truly is no point.....right now. Too many emotions from her and you. Being cool calm and collected is not something you can do right now. Tell her you'll talk to her tomorrow after you have slept on it. Don't pick up the phone if she calls. You really need to sleep on this or you will say things you will regret. You won't be able to help it. Yes agree with her feelings. LISTEN to her and agree. Arguing with her or telling her you've changed right now won't mean anything to her in the state of mind she is in. Talking about YOUR pain won't do a damn thing accept get you even madder. It simply won't. Give it a bit of time to have these conversations. Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Mike, Being cool calm and collected is not something you can do right now. Tell her you'll talk to her tomorrow after you have slept on it. Don't pick up the phone if she calls. You really need to sleep on this or you will say things you will regret. You won't be able to help it. Good advice. Take it. Hard as it is to imagine (playing this game with someone you once loved/was married to) you must keep her guessing with confidence and a collected attitude. You must project that you've adapted to the situation, nothing fazes you. What this does is make her wonder and keep her off attack mode. Only the foolish strike on an uncertain enemy. Don't talk to her at all after you get an attorney. Speak through them. Make her realize what she's done to the marriage. I'm not saying be mean and vindictive; just act the way someone acts when they're being sued. Ask friends/family for advice on picking an attorney. Male or female has no advantage...each have their own strengths. Most are in it for the easy buck, so they won't stray off the path too much. When that happens they get pissed because it cuts into their profits. Once they get mad, many lawyers get sloppy. State from the beginning that you only want what's fair. After that, you won't be allowed to talk much. Especially in court. Her lawyer will talk about her and you, yours will talk about you and her. It's a lovely experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 part of me feels like the "game" playing doesnt work when one person isn't on the field, or even on this planet. Its depressing when you wonder when the last time they actually had feelings for you was... Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Now is about the time you have a beer with your best friend. Link to post Share on other sites
phineas Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I find it a little strange that she wants a divorce shortly after you set up a private practice. how much does she want? Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 According to this, the lawyer he contacted prior indicated the court would likely adjudicate to pre-marital state, with her getting the house she owned prior and he his medical practice and a splitting of their appropriate financial assets. They've been married only a short time. A reasonable judge (most I've been in front of have been reasonable) would see any efforts by her to grab part of his practice for what it is, a blatant gold-dig. That said, reconstructing their last five years together with education/business/real estate, etc, could run into a horrendous legal bill. As most lawyers know, doctors make decent money Link to post Share on other sites
floridapad Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Mike These are not games. These are tips to prevent yourself from looking like a doormat so that in a year when things have settled you don't kick yourself in the gut and say to your "Damn I was a pussy and said some pretty stupid ****". Trust me I've been there. Sleep on it for a couple of night. When YOUR settled down you can talk to her. Don't let her control the situation. You really need a bit of time before you discuss anything with her or you will get worked up and lose control, unless of course you are stone cold. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) well after a pretty much sleepless night, after even halfway through trying to get drunk i quit, i feel pretty much abandonded. I was planning on moving into an apartment next weekend, but now I can't because all our **** has to stay in the house per court order. My practice isn't worth anything right now. The documents state for us to go back to premarital status. And yes, the sad part is we haven't even been married long enough to accumulate any joint debt or assets. She apparently had therapy yesterday, and said we could "talk" today. Not so sure I want to. My skull is showing from beating my head against the wall. Yet I keep holding on to that magic thing that lifts her from the fog. The worst part is i just yesterday (before got the papers) I checked out a marriage retreat in our area starting this weekend, and to get the info i needed to enter our information. I was only planning on getting the info, but instead they called both of us, because it started today. Oops. We talked (and by talked I mean text messaged-she has pretty much refused to talk to or see me this past month) a bit about it. I talked to a lawyer, and they were even suprised about how we haven't been married that long for someone to give up. Why I chose to ignore the signs that this was coming I don't know. The bank accounts switching, the phone bill separating, along with the insurance. I'm almost pissed she decided to have the "courtesy" to wait till after the holidays, which ended up giving me hope. From what I know and read the pain doesn't stop here. Now I get to hear accusations out in the air. Why those old wedding pictures bring so much sadness, is because I used to see so much promise in them. A life full of possibilities. Now all I see is pain, lonliness, and a life together thrown down the tubes, for the unwillingness to stick things out in difficult times. Apparently this juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Edited January 9, 2010 by mikeymad Link to post Share on other sites
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