-just got served papers

[mikeymad]

The office issue is so very much intertwined in my M that it's almost impossible to separate the two.

 

Any suggestions of books to read about reconciliation? I have divorce remedy, five love languages, love languages of apology, love dare, etc...

[floridapad]

Mike,

 

You can read all the books, and that is great, but she needs to be the one to decide to come back. The books are for yourself. Are you still pushing her. Are you still trying to talk to her for things. I'm telling you she needs to see you moving on. Looooong process if you want to reconcile. Need to first let go. Can't practice all those wondeful things you read in the book when the W doesn't want to see you. All you can do is let go. It doesn't mean it's over. Actually it will give you the strength to continue. Hanging on to the marriage is killing you and any chance you have at reconciliation. Let me ask you a question. Have you figured out what DOESN'T work with her. Are you still doing it. Be honest.

 

BTW for me - Divorce remedy and Homer's book were the best. Marriage builders helped as well but didn't have as much information on "self healing" as I needed. Focused too much on repairing the marriage which kept me sucked in. I had counseling with someone at Divorce busters and one of the key things they try to focus on is the self and detaching from the outcome. Even they recognize that you need to do this in order to save your marriage. It's all counter intuitive.

Edited January 25, 2010 by floridapad

[mikeymad]

have been better at detaching, but honestly probably still pushing. i'm trying to talk, see each other etc and she is very resistant. it's hard because we are also in the legal process as well, so there's lawyers involved and that adds another layer of resistance. I haven't figured out what has worked with her, because it seems as if everything doesn't work. she did think that i was headed to a seminar last weekend and sent me a text saying she hoped i had a good time/flight.

 

btw, i'm gonna be in orlando next weekend...can't wait to get out of the -5 front that's coming through

[floridapad]

Orlando should be good. Party it up and have some fun. As far as her resistance. Your doing the same damn stuff Mike. You read divorce rememdy and the 180's. Are you practicing them? Are you GALing? She needs to see your strong and not needy.

 

Great to hear your detaching a bit more. Still keep contact and conversations to a minimum. Light and happy. Light and happy. But not over the top. Nothing works right now because she perceives it as an attempt at reconciliation. The more you attempt at contacting her the more she will perceive it as an attempt at reconciliation.

[mikeymad]

GALing? can you tell me what that is?

 

And how do you approach "light and happy" convos if they won't initiate them, or really don't want to speak much about anything if you do talk because it seems "odd"

Edited January 25, 2010 by mikeymad

[floridapad]

GALing is "Get A Life". Its a divorce buster (remedy) technique. Look at their site. The point is once you start getting a life, she will see by your actions that you have some good sh*t going on and light and happy convo will be much easier because you actually have something to talk about besides your work, divorce and your recent enlightenments. For me it was Scuba and salsa dancing (yeah yeah don't call me twinkle toes. The chicks down here love it....and my wife knows it :-)). Actually it is something I wanted to try before this whole mess.

 

You live in Minesota so perhaps errr...ice fishing??? Light and happy convos start very short. When you see her to drop stuff off (divorce stuff, whatever) you walk happy, say you have to go somewhere and peak there interest. Cutt the conversations with her short and say you have plans. Soon she will ask what they are and you will peak her curiosity because you now have "gotten a life". If she wants to talk divorce tell her to save it for the lawyers. If she sees you happy chances are she will try to bring you down with divorce talk. Don't bite. It's her way of gaining control over your emotions again. 180 from what you are doing now...Right?

[tnttim]

If your gonna follow any advice, follow Florida's advice. He's 100% with the advice and how your wife will react, plus it's fun to do new things.

[tnttim]

Orlando should be good. Party it up and have some fun. As far as her resistance. Your doing the same damn stuff Mike. You read divorce rememdy and the 180's. Are you practicing them? Are you GALing? She needs to see your strong and not needy.

 

Great to hear your detaching a bit more. Still keep contact and conversations to a minimum. Light and happy. Light and happy. But not over the top. Nothing works right now because she perceives it as an attempt at reconciliation. The more you attempt at contacting her the more she will perceive it as an attempt at reconciliation.

 

She wants control, and if she disagrees with everything, that's her trying to take control from you.

[mikeymad]

Ok, This is kind of an emergency. She wants to meet tonight (for the first time in 6 weeks), but not in a friendly way. She knows I'm headed out of town and wants to get her things back from me and for me to take the rest of the things out of the house. I assume so she can change the locks while I'm gone and move back in. She assumes that any wedding gift given by someone she knows automatically belongs to her.

 

2 part question. I know she took some picture albums she gave me when I was on a trip, and I'd like them back for sentimental reasons, but they also include some risque photos. Would it seem weird/pervy to ask for them back? Or is that just petty?

 

2. I would really like for this meeting to not be non confrontational, and possibly even pleasant. Just not sure how to do that with all the emotion built up around it....any thoughts/suggestions?

[floridapad]

mIke,

 

I'm sorry if I'm going to be a bit of an azz here. It seems as though any advice we offer you take a contrary position. Your emotions are sky high and until you get them in control by being indifferent to the outcome there is no advice you will be able to follow because your emotions will get in the way. I know. I was there before. I couldn't talk to my W without getting emotional in the beginning. You know your triggers. Keeping conversations pleasant means keeping them short (under 10). Long conversations will drag and open the possibility for your emotions to come out in a way that might sabotage yourself. Again...I know I have been there, but perhaps you just need to figure that out for yourself. I get that you want her to see that you have changed as I did with my W. The fact of the matter is though, you telling her that you have changed or see the light is something I'm sure you have already told her so it would be bringing up old R talk.

 

As far as the stuff goes. Yeah, trying to keep risque pictures would be a bit pervy IMHO. Mike, Did you ever make that list of assets I spoke to you about so you could have it as a starting point for divying things up?

 

I know where you are at. You and I are a bit alike, similar parent upbringing (based on convos we had) etc. I truly can feel for your situation but you pouring your heart out to her or trying to prove that you changed in a breif meetup simply won't do it. Your emotions are STILL running high. She will smell it a mile away. Keep it short and you be the one to cutt it before your emotions get the best of you.

[mikeymad]

she has a list of all gifts from wedding, birthdays etc that she is going to fwd to me that "i should pick what think i deserve from her friends and family"

[floridapad]

"deserve" she asks? She's a good manipulator. You deserve HALF. They were wedding gifts to the both of you. Not just her alone. Thats where the negotiations start. HALF. From there you can be giving or taking. If you want, feel free to send me the list and I'll go through it with you and give you my two cents on some of the things you may need for your new apartment that you might forget about (like lamps, don't forget about those. Expensive. Pictures. You will hate bare walls in a very short time. Vacuum. etc etc. Make sure that list she sends has everything.). Don't just focus on the sentimental stuff. If the sentiment is related to her, you will not want it after time. I purged everything having to do with my W. Had to let go..You may be different.

[mark982]

the way things have went,don't know if it's a good idea to meet alone.

[mikeymad]

well in trying to figure out the details about meeting and if it was to talk or merely exchange things, she got mad and called it off. Not that it suprised me too much. I think it's kind of funny how hypocritical she is being, calling me illogical. I know I should be following a lot of people's advice and probably letting go, because this just keeps getting deeper and deeper. I'm now at the point where I have to wonder if I go ahead and just take what I can get and piss her off, or give in somewhat, maintain some respect and hope for the best in the future. its frustrating to talk to someone who i think has warped her own sense of reality so badly that she really believes things were absolutely horrible the entire time we are together, and "saving herself" by divorcing me is the only option.

Edited January 27, 2010 by mikeymad

[FreeNow]

if I go ahead and just take what I can get and piss her off, or give in somewhat, maintain some respect and hope for the best in the future.

 

Bingo! Read the situation and pick the best approach based upon her reactions. Take the tack that results in you getting more of what you want out of the situation. If you don't care about the gifts and they aren't all that expensive then let her at it. If something means anything to you or is very expensive then be a prick. It's time to dump or suppress your emotions... time to man up.

 

The only respect you are going to maintain is that respect which you salvage of yourself in this whole mess. Reach down, grab your manhood, and ride that bull cowboy!

 

 

its frustrating to talk to someone who i think has warped her own sense of reality so badly that she really believes things were absolutely horrible the entire time we are together, and "saving herself" by divorcing me is the only option.

 

Don't believe a word out of her mouth. She is manipulating you like a master. Put what she says on mute and watch the picture show (her actions). That will put you back in the driver's seat. You will regain your power. She likes keeping you on the ropes just like this. Break out and follow up.

[floridapad]

Freenow is dead on the money. Great advice for your situation.

 

Salvage yourself but don't be a prick about it. Be strong, gentlemanly, honorable, manly, but don't be a complete Ahole. By doing that you are playing right into her by losing your self respect and letting her continue to say" see thats why I want a divorce".

 

Yep time to man up.

[mikeymad]

Has anybody asked for wedding/engagement rings back? Since our marriage was so short, and she has said that she shouldn't have married me, would that be extremely tacky? It would help me make ends meet, but i know she has no obligation to do it. Not sure if that would just drive the wedge even more between us.

[FreeNow]

Has anybody asked for wedding/engagement rings back? Since our marriage was so short, and she has said that she shouldn't have married me, would that be extremely tacky?

 

I did... three times... and got them back all three times.

 

Mentioned it to the first fiance during the breakup since the set consisted of heirloom diamonds and gold custom made by my relative and designed by me. She couldn't easily say no. With the first wife I had to piss her off enough to throw them at me. After rings were safely in hand I gave a thank you look and beat a hasty retreat. The last wife owed on a bill so I crafted a response that resulted in a prompt return of the rings.

 

The set is now in a safe for the children later on.

 

It's not tacky asking for them back. Tacky is using them for three matrimonial relationships even when the women know their history.

 

It would help me make ends meet, but i know she has no obligation to do it. Not sure if that would just drive the wedge even more between us.

 

If you need the money from the rings then carefully work on getting them back and sell them promptly.

 

If physical things like rings from a short marriage will drive some insurmountable wedge in a relationship then there are bigger problems. I'm not trying to be an azz... just helping to keep things in perspective.

 

 

I know this stuff hurts a whole lot... I feel for you.

Edited January 27, 2010 by FreeNow

[mikeymad]

I know, I'm just torn as I want this to end on (hopefully) ok terms so that way a reconciliation might be possible in the future if we both want it. wondering if asking in such an emotional period for both of us would burn any bridges that are left.

[FreeNow]

I know, I'm just torn as I want this to end on (hopefully) ok terms so that way a reconciliation might be possible in the future if we both want it. wondering if asking in such an emotional period for both of us would burn any bridges that are left.

 

Although I don't personally recommend it; if you still insist on trying to get her to come back then it wouldn't generally be a good idea to ask for the rings. It would flag as you were primarily about the $$$ and not the love.

 

There is a good chance that if things don't work out that you'll be kicking yourself for not getting the rings back when you had a chance.

[tnttim]

I know, I'm just torn as I want this to end on (hopefully) ok terms so that way a reconciliation might be possible in the future if we both want it. wondering if asking in such an emotional period for both of us would burn any bridges that are left.

 

I hate to tell you but being nice kills a recon, being a puppet for her kills a recon, being afraid of the divorce kills a recon. You know what helps a recon, being a f*cking man. Go to your house, get your sh*t, hand her your ring, and get hers back. Pawn the ring, and use the money to pay for a lawyer. You are dwelling and thinking too much, way too much. This isn't a chess match, it's your life dude.

Here's a part of my story I hope it helps. One day I woke up, and I had a smile on my face. I had one thought in my brain, I don't need my wife to continue a happy life. The second I realized that, and truly believed it, I knew I would get her back. I keep that thought with me everyday now, I DON"T NEED MY WIFE TO BE HAPPY. The best part is I do have my wife, and yet I'm still happy, even when she's not. It makes marriage so easy when you have that thought in your head, it takes all of the pressure out of it. So don't be afraid of losing her, or pissing her off, stick to the rules, NC, push the divorce, move on, be happy, and don't worry about what she's doing, going to do, and has done.

[mikeymad]

well here I am after my longest absence from LS since D-day. I'm stuck here in the airport since 3 am, and I got bumped from my flight, but I at least got 2 free round trip tickets anywhere...they even go to aruba

 

This weekend was especially important to me, as it gave me some important things to ponder that may help the rest of you out there.

 

Sometimes we don't know what is planned for us in this life. Tragedy happens, most often when you are least suspecting it, or when you think things can't get any worse. It is only then that we realize that we have the POWER to choose our attitude, our actions, and what we choose to focus our mind on. What we choose to focus on reflects back at us in everything around us, as our vibrational energy we put off interacts with the environment (4th dimensional stuff). We can choose to be a victim, or to use what happens to us as a stepping stone, the event that will force us to grow and develop into the person who we were truly meant to be...to fulfill our purpose in this life. As ****ty as I feel, I feel amazingly blessed to have had my blindspots opened up to me and to be going through this process. I feel I have gained a lifetime of personal insight in a few short months, and matured on so many levels.

 

Someone asked me what it is that I want in this life, my goals with my marriage. 85, sitting on a cruise ship, surrounded by kids and grandkids, enjoying life with my W is what came to my mind. She told me then EVERYTHING I do must be in congruency with that vision. If you stray from that, you are living a lie.

 

Because of that vision, to make both her AND myself happy. I made the decision that I WAS going to get my W back, because I know deep down that she still loves me, she is just so scared and hurt right now to try. It's strange, but it gave me a sense of peace that I haven't felt in a while. I don't know if it's because I feel now that it can truly be done, but I know it's for completely different reasons than what that needy, desperate person was saying to her a month ago. I hope it's not a delusional peace, because I haven't been "battle tested" in this new outlook yet. The great quote that would go with this would be "Everybody has a plan till they get hit in the mouth". I know I am going back to a situation in which she hasn't changed, but I have. We still are on email-only terms, but I may try to contact her today or yet this week.

 

Honestly,I don't care about "things". I got caught up in the proceedings of an impending D and reverted back to the "i'm just going to worry about me" mentality. I don't feel I can do that and still focus on "us". If she wants to split things, fine. I will agree. There is nothing that I could possibly get that won't do more damage now, that I could just replace later on. I am thinking of asking her to go to a marriage weekend with me, and during those 48 hours together, if she truly thinks that there is no chance to recon and to put the D on hold to see if we can make some sort of headway, I will give her the divorce she wishes on her terms. I prefer to be honorable to argumentative, respectful rather than vindictive. I will love my spouse. Since I don't live there, I will also "love my neighbor". Since we are fighting right now, I will also "love my enemy".

 

There is a great book out there, kinda old, and even though it is for marriages that are either ok or rocky (not my situation), it helps you to give you a roadmap of behaviors and their reasons. It's by Zig Ziglar, and it's called "courtship after marriage: romance can last a lifetime.

[floridapad]

BEAUTIFUL Mike. A second wind. I admire your tenacity and hope this journey of winning your wife back is a personal growing experience that will result in positives, regardless of the outcome.

 

I do have a question for you. What is your plan to win her back? Prayers alone won't do it. The HARDEST part of "winning" someone back is to first let them go. You begin to fear that if you let them go you will lose the love you have inside. You fear that the spouse will not see that you love them. So many fears. Can you overcome all that. This journey more than ANYTHING is about a battle with ones self and personal growth. This battle to win your wife back is going to be looooong. I hope you have a plan that allows for you to not put so much focus on the M and your W. Congruency in these situations is great, but I hope in your plan there is some personal healing. Can't save a marriage while your licking your wounds worrying too much about how to win your W back. I have spoken to several different marriage coaches and they ALL profess the importance of detaching. Pure and simple. It's the ONLY way you can survive the long haul. Emotion management.

 

The ultimate prize is that YOU are happy. That comes in many forms. It can come in the form of making your wife happy, a loving marriage, having children, or could be about a career in the short run, taking up new hobbies to get through these times, going out with friends alot, working out etc. etc.

Being overly congruent towards marital goals during these tough time could also sabotage you. Some times counter intuitiveness in the short run is the only way to go to be congruent in the long run. (Sounds odd I know).

Edited January 31, 2010 by floridapad

[mikeymad]

Yes, focusing on myself is definetely in the plan. It was nice to talk to people this weekend and connect. I don't yet have a "concrete" plan for healing myself. I guess asking her about the weekend can kill two birds with one stone...to show her I am still committed, and to see if she both can see I am willing to sacrifice for her and for her to take a step towards me instead of away. even if we go and she still goes D route, maybe that will have laid the foundation for the future. like I said, this isn't "battle tested" yet, and so far I haven't fared well when that punch finally lands and my plans go to crap.

Edited January 31, 2010 by mikeymad

[mikeymad]

So, quick update.

 

I came back, found out not only did she change the locks on the house (which I figured she would) they put sheets up in front of the windows even in the garage. Her P's are supporting this probably because she told them my behavior of looking for evidence of the EA/PA, yet she hasn't told them about it. I don't have any solid evidence other than her word to expose, not that it matters at this point.

 

I also found out she went into my office while i was gone this weekend, and took things that, although she purchased, were for the clinic and rearranged it to not look so obvious. I am tempted to file a police report on her, but know it won't do any good (it was about 100 bucks worth of stuff) on any front. I am choosing not to respond to keep her worried about what I will do. I guess I should speak to my lawyer about the legal aspect, but dang, this is messed up.