Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[jennie-jennie]

He didn't settle if he couldn't do better than you, as you say. A person that goes for the better option is hardly settling for it.

 

You settled. You let him come back knowing that you could do and get better than him, knowing that he wasn't giving you what you truly wanted.

 

I'm confused, you say you've been a BS but I recall you saying you've never been married. Just trying to get my facts straight.

 

I live in a country where cohabitating has the same legal status as marriage. My first common law marriage lasted for 5 years, my second in which we got three children lasted for 25 years.

 

I do not agree with your opinion of whether we settled or not. It is not that easy. That is what I was trying to explain. I could do no better because this was the man I loved. You can't go shopping for a man like you go shopping for a car, trying to find the best one available. You need to love the man as well. And that I did.

 

I believe I loved him more than he ever loved me. So if that is true, who settled? He settled for less love but got the better woman, I settled for the more problematic man but had more love. Yet none of us had better options available.

Edited January 14, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[silktricks]

But for many of the OW's on LS, that is exactly the case. The MM says he wants to "work on" his marriage, yet continues the affair after D-day, with or without a short period of "laying low". The problem is that the experience of the vast majority of OW's here is polar opposite to that of the BS's - where the H's do actually end the affair and work on the marriage. The OW's have good reason to feel that MM may be snowballing their W's and the BS's have good reason to believe that the OW's are deluding themselves into thinking they matter to the MM. It's two very different perspectives. I think the debates would look different if you had OW's and BS's from the side of the same types of affairs.

I completely agree. Sometimes I want to write to a new BS posting something along the line of, "for cryin' out loud, dump the guy, can't you see that he's NEVER going to change!", too.

 

Anyway, we all do bring our own experiences with us, and provide sometimes very valuable insight because of that. It's good.

 

It's also really nice when an OW can see that their assumptions can be just as off track as many BS assumptions can be.

[Natureofbeast]

"I find it amazing that so many OM/OW do not understand that when a BS attempts to reconcile with a WS, it must be because we:

 

a) need the security and status quo

 

b) pay check

 

c) provider and parent for the children

 

d) don't want to be alone

 

e) turn a blind eye to the affair, thereby proving we REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT LOVE AND PASSION AND OUR SPOUSE"

 

 

The easy answer to the justification of all of the above is that loves got nothing to do with it. After all, they loved them most–at least to their POV. In the end though, does it really matter what the OW/OM thinks? They have to salve their own hurt and appease their own guilt. Seriously why would/ should BS care what OW/OM thinks? Its not like the OW/OM or cared what BS thought while the A was ongoing.

[dazzle22]

In order to knowingly and repetitively and with malice aforethought harm another person (as an OW/OM does to the BS) you have to devalue that person to live with yourself...eg. she is inattentive to him, she doesn't meet his needs, he doesn't love her, she is stupid, naive,,, insert negative perceived trait here:_______, otherwise you couldn't live with yourself. Harsh, but the bare bones truth...

[atlnay]

In order to knowingly and repetitively and with malice aforethought harm another person (as an OW/OM does to the BS) you have to devalue that person to live with yourself...eg. she is inattentive to him, she doesn't meet his needs, he doesn't love her, she is stupid, naive,,, insert negative perceived trait here:_______, otherwise you couldn't live with yourself. Harsh, but the bare bones truth...

 

Not in my case. I really don't think of his W in general, much less to even devalue her. I more wonder about him and what's missing in his world and lean more towards the fact that he's selfish.

[dazzle22]

Exactly my point. You devalue you her to the point where her feelings and the upheaval in her life is something you don't even give one thought to. If you stole someone's cute little dog, you'd probably have some pangs of guilt about the anguish the owner would be going through, but the wife, eh, who gives a shi...!

[White Flower]

Exactly my point. You devalue you her to the point where her feelings and the upheaval in her life is something you don't even give one thought to. If you stole someone's cute little dog, you'd probably have some pangs of guilt about the anguish the owner would be going through, but the wife, eh, who gives a shi...!

This is where you are wrong.

 

We stole nobody as person can be stolen. MM chose a R on the side with an OW. W is non-existent to the OW usually.

[reboot]

This is where you are wrong.

 

We stole nobody as person can be stolen. MM chose a R on the side with an OW. W is non-existent to the OW usually.

 

You are right. Although I have seen situations where a OM/OW deliberately set out to destroy a marriage and take away the spouse, and even though that is despicable, it still couldn't have happened if the WS wasn't willing.

[White Flower]

This is where you are wrong.

 

We stole nobody as person can be stolen. MM chose a R on the side with an OW. W is non-existent to the OW usually.

Boy did I state that incorrectly! Thats what I get for posting from work!

 

We stole nobody as NO person can be stolen. Glad you still understood me reboot!

[anne1707]

You are right. Although I have seen situations where a OM/OW deliberately set out to destroy a marriage and take away the spouse, and even though that is despicable, it still couldn't have happened if the WS wasn't willing.

 

When my father was toing and froing from my mother to the OW (now my stepmother), the OW would phone our house whilst my father was out and would start telling my mother the details of the affair and how much better/more attractive/younger she was compared to my mother - almost gloating about it. I witnessed several of these calls and my future stepmother's father even phoned and apologised to my mother - he was mortified about what his daughter was doing.

 

Later on when my father and my stepmother started living together, when I talked about these phone calls, she completely denied it and accused me of lying. Somehow I was the bad guy trying to destroy a relationship! :mad:

[White Flower]

I think that brings up a very good point. So many BS believe the OP seduced their WS away. It just isn't so. MM was heavily pursuant of me and it took me a year and a half to cave. On D-day #2, W thought I was such an evil monster because I called him. When he stood up for me and said it was HE who called me, she reminded him that I returned the calls.

 

If only she knew everything else.

 

Anyway, I was the pursued one and it doesn't matter if I caved or not. He wouldn't be pursuing me if he were completely happy in his M. On D-day suddenly he's so happy to be with her and I'm the bad guy.

[dazzle22]

You can use any excuse you want for stealing, ie 'That little dog just JUMPED into my arms and REALLY wanted to come with me. It did not want to stay with its owner. Yes, I know it had "tags" on, but it pursued me..!" Doesn't matter. You send it home to momma as the little straying dog he is...!

 

I have had MANY married men pursue me over the years. Could have had a bunch on the side. But I am unwilling to do that to a fellow WOMAN. And I realize that a man like that is NOT WORTHY OF ME. Bottom line. Not worthy of ME!

 

I am not trying to flame any individual people here on this thread, just provide the other side of this argument that "but he pursued me"...

[PhoenixRise]

I think that brings up a very good point. So many BS believe the OP seduced their WS away. It just isn't so. MM was heavily pursuant of me and it took me a year and a half to cave. On D-day #2, W thought I was such an evil monster because I called him. When he stood up for me and said it was HE who called me, she reminded him that I returned the calls.

 

If only she knew everything else.

 

Anyway, I was the pursued one and it doesn't matter if I caved or not. He wouldn't be pursuing me if he were completely happy in his M. On D-day suddenly he's so happy to be with her and I'm the bad guy.

 

White Flower

 

I see what you are saying. Sometimes a BS might unfairly blame an AP, wanting to blame them entirely for the affair. I think this is mostly a response to intense pain. For some, in the heat of the moment it is much easier to believe that some stranger inflicted this pain than it is to believe your spouse who is supposed to love you did this.

 

However, it is not always the case that the AP is pursued. There are AP's posting on LS now who say they target MM. So this targeting does happen as well.

 

Not negating the WS responsibility for his/her own choices. But the deliberate targeting of the spouse does happen.

[reboot]

You can use any excuse you want for stealing, ie 'That little dog just JUMPED into my arms and REALLY wanted to come with me. It did not want to stay with its owner. Yes, I know it had "tags" on, but it pursued me..!" Doesn't matter. You send it home to momma as the little straying dog he is...!

 

I have had MANY married men pursue me over the years. Could have had a bunch on the side. But I am unwilling to do that to a fellow WOMAN. And I realize that a man like that is NOT WORTHY OF ME. Bottom line. Not worthy of ME!

 

I am not trying to flame any individual people here on this thread, just provide the other side of this argument that "but he pursued me"...

 

I think maybe you misunderstood her. WF is very much a realist.

[White Flower]

White Flower

 

I see what you are saying. Sometimes a BS might unfairly blame an AP, wanting to blame them entirely for the affair. I think this is mostly a response to intense pain. For some, in the heat of the moment it is much easier to believe that some stranger inflicted this pain than it is to believe your spouse who is supposed to love you did this.

 

However, it is not always the case that the AP is pursued. There are AP's posting on LS now who say they target MM. So this targeting does happen as well.

 

Not negating the WS responsibility for his/her own choices. But the deliberate targeting of the spouse does happen.

Very true especially when one prefers to deal with things quickly and then sweep everything under the rug. There will be no understanding on her part because she won't be told of the entire truth. She wants so badly to keep him, keep the man she believes he is and in order to live with that, I must be the bad guy, the evil temptress.

[White Flower]

You can use any excuse you want for stealing, ie 'That little dog just JUMPED into my arms and REALLY wanted to come with me. It did not want to stay with its owner. Yes, I know it had "tags" on, but it pursued me..!" Doesn't matter. You send it home to momma as the little straying dog he is...!

 

I have had MANY married men pursue me over the years. Could have had a bunch on the side. But I am unwilling to do that to a fellow WOMAN. And I realize that a man like that is NOT WORTHY OF ME. Bottom line. Not worthy of ME!

 

I am not trying to flame any individual people here on this thread, just provide the other side of this argument that "but he pursued me"...

He did go home to mama, thanks for clarifying that! Cause that is exactly her role in the M but that is for another thread. That is THEIR dynamic, not all M dynamics, BTW.

 

I too have had many MM pursue me and none of them got to me. Except this one, he was the love of my life. I was willing, finally, to cave into his advances because I recognized that.

 

And I never said, 'but' he pursued me. Just that he pursued me. I don't apologize for it. It is what it is.

[dazzle22]

Interesting point. Perhaps men like this have "mother issues". Their marriages start to morph into mother/bad boy son relationships, and they then then take the role of being rebellious and "act out" by doing something mom doesn't approve of. Interesting idea to ponder.....

 

I have found that men like this in general are looking for women with a vulnerability that they can exploit, either at a time where their esteem is low, or they are lonely, something that they can "hook into". Because seriously, what woman at a strong high esteem part of her life would say, "sure, I am willing to be your 'second string'"...? I am willing to wait on holidays and get the "crumbs" you deign to give me, after you have spent time with your family." Then they always give her some "cock and bull" story about how, oh, she doesn't understand me, she doesn't meet my needs, uh huh, he's probably an annoying spoiled little boy at home that she is fed up with.

[White Flower]

Interesting point. Perhaps men like this have "mother issues". Their marriages start to morph into mother/bad boy son relationships, and they then then take the role of being rebellious and "act out" by doing something mom doesn't approve of. Interesting idea to ponder.....

 

I have found that men like this in general are looking for women with a vulnerability that they can exploit, either at a time where their esteem is low, or they are lonely, something that they can "hook into". Because seriously, what woman at a strong high esteem part of her life would say, "sure, I am willing to be your 'second string'"...? I am willing to wait on holidays and get the "crumbs" you deign to give me, after you have spent time with your family." Then they always give her some "cock and bull" story about how, oh, she doesn't understand me, she doesn't meet my needs, uh huh, he's probably an annoying spoiled little boy at home that she is fed up with.

He MAY have been looking for vulnerability, I don't know, but I didn't sign up for second fiddle or crumbs. I did sign up for a good time but then I fell in love. Ha ha, I guess I thought I was too old to feel that lively and youthful feeling again. Guess I was wrong.

 

I did eventually feel like I was 'receiving crumbs' right before it ended even though I know he loved me deeply. Won't go down that road again.

Edited January 15, 2010 by White Flower

[White Flower]

I think maybe you misunderstood her. WF is very much a realist.

Thank you reboot.

[Natureofbeast]

Other woman didn't pursued him?

 

Maybe not all–maybe not in your situation--but some can be guilty as accused . . .

Let me see she openly admitted she flirted with him–he and many of his employees stayed regular at the hotel she’d recently taken employment up as a desk clerk. She admitted she followed him to the bar she over heard he was going to. She offered him a lift back to the hotel–cause he had a few too many–a bad day at the "office" that had cost him about a 100 grand-- his excuse. She admitted it was a firing offense to have relationship with guests. Instead of taking him back to the hotel she parked in the park . . . nope doesn’t sound like there was a plot or planning there at all.

[dazzle22]

He MAY have been looking for vulnerability, I don't know, but I didn't sign up for second fiddle or crumbs. I did sign up for a good time but then I fell in love. Ha ha, I guess I thought I was too old to feel that lively and youthful feeling again. Guess I was wrong.

 

I did eventually feel like I was 'receiving crumbs' right before it ended even though I know he loved me deeply. Won't go down that road again.

 

 

Oh, but see, here is where he found your "hook"....he sensed that you felt kind of dead inside, kind of old" and that you wanted to feel young and alive again, and that is how he got ya!

[Dexter Morgan]

I find it amazing that so many OM/OW do not understand that when a BS attempts to reconcile with a WS

 

 

funny thing is, the OM/OW don't understand it, and berate BS's that feel the "need" to stay with their cheaters, but yet they wanted them themselves

[RedDevil66]

Interesting point. Perhaps men like this have "mother issues". Their marriages start to morph into mother/bad boy son relationships, and they then then take the role of being rebellious and "act out" by doing something mom doesn't approve of. Interesting idea to ponder.....

 

I have found that men like this in general are looking for women with a vulnerability that they can exploit, either at a time where their esteem is low, or they are lonely, something that they can "hook into". Because seriously, what woman at a strong high esteem part of her life would say, "sure, I am willing to be your 'second string'"...? I am willing to wait on holidays and get the "crumbs" you deign to give me, after you have spent time with your family." Then they always give her some "cock and bull" story about how, oh, she doesn't understand me, she doesn't meet my needs, uh huh, he's probably an annoying spoiled little boy at home that she is fed up with.

 

 

Totally agree and what I've been saying on LS for a while.

NO ONE with high regard for themselves would lower themselves to date anyone married.

But here's the things, most people cannot accept that they may have issues with esteem and really believe they are strong, when in reality, it's denial.

[White Flower]

Oh, but see, here is where he found your "hook"....he sensed that you felt kind of dead inside, kind of old" and that you wanted to feel young and alive again, and that is how he got ya!

LOL, that is where they ALL get us, be they husbands or APs.

 

I don't think he masterminded a hook here. All people have it in them to fall in love, to morph from having a fling for the sake of fun and distraction. I just didn't see it coming for myself. I hold myself responsible for that because I tried to use reason to prevent love. I should have known myself better.

[White Flower]

funny thing is, the OM/OW don't understand it, and berate BS's that feel the "need" to stay with their cheaters, but yet they wanted them themselves

They did want the same person, no doubt. If the WS cheats for the first time and AP believes this to be true along with all the complaints he/she received about BS it only stands to reason he/she would be confused that the WS goes back.

 

In the case of a SC (serial cheater) I say the BS can have him! Let her deal with that S***!