Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[OWoman]

Totally agree and what I've been saying on LS for a while.

NO ONE with high regard for themselves would lower themselves to date anyone married.

But here's the things, most people cannot accept that they may have issues with esteem and really believe they are strong, when in reality, it's denial.

 

Sigh... That old chestnut again!

 

"If you agree with me, you'll agree you're broken. If you don't agree with me, you're just in denial about being broken, which just illustrates how broken you are." That's a game both sides can play, but some of us know better than to get caught up with the pathetic claims of someone who's never met us and who chooses to read what we type through the lens of their own neurosis / psychosis / other form of brokenness...

[White Flower]

Sigh... That old chestnut again!

 

"If you agree with me, you'll agree you're broken. If you don't agree with me, you're just in denial about being broken, which just illustrates how broken you are." That's a game both sides can play, but some of us know better than to get caught up with the pathetic claims of someone who's never met us and who chooses to read what we type through the lens of their own neurosis / psychosis / other form of brokenness...

I will be quoting this one over and over OWoman.

[Spark1111]

Hey, true for the BS as well....

 

Did I reconcile because I really love him? Or, am I also broken inside?

 

Hmmmmm....one for the therapist I think.

[White Flower]

Hey, true for the BS as well....

 

Did I reconcile because I really love him? Or, am I also broken inside?

 

Hmmmmm....one for the therapist I think.

This is an OUTSTANDING point! I wish EVERY BS could ask this question of themselves.

[Brokenlady]

Sigh... That old chestnut again!

 

"If you agree with me, you'll agree you're broken. If you don't agree with me, you're just in denial about being broken, which just illustrates how broken you are." That's a game both sides can play, but some of us know better than to get caught up with the pathetic claims of someone who's never met us and who chooses to read what we type through the lens of their own neurosis / psychosis / other form of brokenness...

 

Yes, excellent point.

[bentnotbroken]

Hey, true for the BS as well....

 

Did I reconcile because I really love him? Or, am I also broken inside?

 

Hmmmmm....one for the therapist I think.

 

 

Could go the other way too. Did I move on because I didn't love him or I am too broken inside to be with anyone ever again......nah;). Thank God not anymore, but Mr. Messy believes that I didn't forgive because I didn't want to be with him anymore.

[dprtman09]

I was in a longterm relationship with the father of my children when MM contacted me. I chose to have only one relationship in my life and therefore ended my prior relationship. This has of course affected both me, my exSO and our children. It has not been without cost for all of us.

 

So, let me get this straight. You expect us to believe that you are monogamous, but it's not expected of the MM. I must admit, that is somewhat different. At least you have higher expectations of yourself than of others. It's usually the other way around.

 

And now the profundities. You ended a relationship and that cost you and others something, granted. But now it's OK to destroy people's lives that mean nothing to you. The MM can't win. He'll lose his present family and end up in a relatioship based on deceipt and cheating.

 

You'll end up in that same situation and probably deny it until it's in your face.

 

If the MM decides to leave you, it will take a monumental effort to repair the damage he has done. His marriage will never be the same.

 

If you leave the MM, your life will go on. His marriage will never be the same.

 

His W will forever bear the scars of the betrayal. But, you won't have to answer for them.

 

I wonder if any OM or OW ever really give a d**n about the collateral damage. If htey did, then Spark would probably not have had to start this thread.

[dprtman09]

Be careful here, Jennie. Do they still have feelings for the OW, or is the pain and devastation in BS's eyes, and in the eyes of their children, more than they can or want to handle? More than they could possibly do the work to overcome? In a marital relationship that they had to distance themselves from to have an affair in the first place?

 

That is why so many espouse NC after DDAY. I think many OW mistakenly believe it is to protect the BS and to ensure the MM can commit 100% of his attention to the marriage.

 

I believe, woman to woman, it also protects the OW/OM.

 

Let him make up his mind and let him ACT on that decision.

 

I cannot believe OW/OM want to be anyone's default choice either.

 

Who wants to be settled for?

 

If he misses me that much and I AM the one he truly loves and wants to be with, I agree with reboot: He will move mountains to do so, whether you are the BS or the OW.

 

Spark, right again. Let the WS make up their mind. They are responsible for the damage they cause and should prove that they know it. The mountain is in the way of the BS and it's the WS's job to move it.

 

NC is a small price for the OM or OW to pay. After all, they most likely don't care who they may hook up with in the future. At least they can plan a future of their own. The possibly broken or broken marriage will consume both the BS and the WS for a long time.

 

Question: Why is there such a stir here about "settling"? Since when does the WS have a right to choose who they insult? By the nature of their actions, the WS has insulted everyone including themselves.

[dprtman09]

In order to knowingly and repetitively and with malice aforethought harm another person (as an OW/OM does to the BS) you have to devalue that person to live with yourself...eg. she is inattentive to him, she doesn't meet his needs, he doesn't love her, she is stupid, naive,,, insert negative perceived trait here:_______, otherwise you couldn't live with yourself. Harsh, but the bare bones truth...

 

Once again, a poster with a point. The OM for my W was my supervisor at one point. He looked down on me because I had ten years in the business and he came in from the outside. I was a threat. He was my W's supervisor as well. She had 5 years in the business, but he could feed her ego. I have no doubt that he wanted what I had. I have no doubt that he tried to give my W the impression that he was a better man than me. I have no doubt that he agreed with any indication on her part that her relationship with me was sub-standard.

[Myowntwofeet]

Be careful here, Jennie. Do they still have feelings for the OW, or is the pain and devastation in BS's eyes, and in the eyes of their children, more than they can or want to handle? More than they could possibly do the work to overcome? In a marital relationship that they had to distance themselves from to have an affair in the first place?

 

That is why so many espouse NC after DDAY. I think many OW mistakenly believe it is to protect the BS and to ensure the MM can commit 100% of his attention to the marriage.

 

I believe, woman to woman, it also protects the OW/OM.

 

Let him make up his mind and let him ACT on that decision.

 

I cannot believe OW/OM want to be anyone's default choice either.

 

Who wants to be settled for?

 

If he misses me that much and I AM the one he truly loves and wants to be with, I agree with reboot: He will move mountains to do so, whether you are the BS or the OW.

 

Ok, so as the OW... let me ask this. OW/OM are constantly given the advice to step away.... if they really love you they will be back, etc.

 

However, seldom and only in very rare occasions does the BS step away, and I do believe there is a reason for that in most cases. If we believe just for a moment that WS actually does love both women... the BS has the advantage because of guilt, possibly because of children - if involved. Now add the salt and pepper of extended family and image, work, etc and if the WS has any love for BS.... then it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to cause further pain by leaving.

 

It all three parties REALLY wanted to know who and what the WS wanted... all three, imo would step away....but very few are that confident ( on all sides of the triangle). The real question would be..... if more BS actually said... ok, I love you and I would like to work this out; however we need to be on our own for 6 months to sort our OWN feelings out first. I truly wonder just how many would return to reconcile.

 

Fear is a crazy thing... and it really can keep all stuck. What we also see happen is the WS stays and then re-enters A or at least maintains contact with OW/OM... they still have not made a firm choice.

 

In order to truly know you are not second or default ( and I do mean either the BS or OW)... the only way to know that is to step away.

 

You are correct silk, I do not want to be second... but I also believe if more WS were allowed to work through their guilt, work through the "why's"... more marriages would either recovery fully ( by 100% choice) and far less than we do see would become the "dday 1... dday 2, etc".

 

I understand and am not knocking... I simply don't see how anyone can say this is just a "OW or BS" decision when it comes to who the MM chooses. Guilt is incredible pain for those that acutually experience...but GUILT is no more a reason to stay with BS than kids, money, etc... and the only way to know the true reason is to let them figure it out..... on their, without interference of either OW/BS.

 

The problem arises with longer affairs where both the OW and BS are willing to stay and work it out....however if the OW does this, she is settling...not accepting reality, etc... when the BS is doing this... she is working it through, standing beside them, etc.

[OWoman]

NC is a small price for the OM or OW to pay. After all, they most likely don't care who they may hook up with in the future.

 

Was this intended to be as insulting as it appears?

[Spark1111]

Ok, so as the OW... let me ask this. OW/OM are constantly given the advice to step away.... if they really love you they will be back, etc.

 

However, seldom and only in very rare occasions does the BS step away, and I do believe there is a reason for that in most cases. If we believe just for a moment that WS actually does love both women... the BS has the advantage because of guilt, possibly because of children - if involved. Now add the salt and pepper of extended family and image, work, etc and if the WS has any love for BS.... then it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to cause further pain by leaving.

 

It all three parties REALLY wanted to know who and what the WS wanted... all three, imo would step away....but very few are that confident ( on all sides of the triangle). The real question would be..... if more BS actually said... ok, I love you and I would like to work this out; however we need to be on our own for 6 months to sort our OWN feelings out first. I truly wonder just how many would return to reconcile.

 

Fear is a crazy thing... and it really can keep all stuck. What we also see happen is the WS stays and then re-enters A or at least maintains contact with OW/OM... they still have not made a firm choice.

 

In order to truly know you are not second or default ( and I do mean either the BS or OW)... the only way to know that is to step away.

 

You are correct silk, I do not want to be second... but I also believe if more WS were allowed to work through their guilt, work through the "why's"... more marriages would either recovery fully ( by 100% choice) and far less than we do see would become the "dday 1... dday 2, etc".

 

I understand and am not knocking... I simply don't see how anyone can say this is just a "OW or BS" decision when it comes to who the MM chooses. Guilt is incredible pain for those that acutually experience...but GUILT is no more a reason to stay with BS than kids, money, etc... and the only way to know the true reason is to let them figure it out..... on their, without interference of either OW/BS.

 

The problem arises with longer affairs where both the OW and BS are willing to stay and work it out....however if the OW does this, she is settling...not accepting reality, etc... when the BS is doing this... she is working it through, standing beside them, etc.

 

Myowntwofeet:

 

I agree with you on the stepping away, but disagree on the motives for reconciling.

 

If you read these boards, most of the successfully reconciled BS did exactly that, sparated for quite a while, because they did not want to settled for. Who would?

 

Go get her< I told him. Talk, text, email all you want. But stay away from me, for a very long time, probably forever.

 

It wasn't that he had developed feelings for someone else. It is that he lied and decieved me every day to act on those feelings.

 

He may have thought that in some noble, but cowardly way that he was protecting us, the family. And like most MM, he was successful in convincing his OW to keep this relationship secret for the sake of the children or whatever.

 

If the deception of the affair alone did not cause him enough guilt to NOT ACT on those feelings, do you think I would then allow feelings of guilt for our families well-being as a justification to reconcile?

 

That would be totally ludicrous reasoning for a BS to reconcile, IMO. I wasn't guilty to betray you in every sense of the word, but now that I have been caught, I am terribly guilty regarding the pain I have caused my family.

 

His family did call and beg on his behalf, but no, nada, zip, not doing it, not this girl. You must have me confused with the poor, little wifey....UGH!

 

The most amazing aspect following our DDAY was his total underestimation of the woman he did marry; as if he stopped seeing the strong, resourceful, independent woman I was, had always been.

 

Just amazing how shocked he was about ME throwing HIM under the bus. Imagine that?

 

And I now know, the OW, hearing just his spin of events, also thought he settled for the sake of his family. How noble, what a great guy to sacrifice our love to do the right thing by his children.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Do you think he told her how he was crying a pleading for a second chance? That he was stalking me like a jilted lover, wondering if I had moved on to a new man?

 

Don't think so......

[polksaladannie]

To answer the OP's question....I have been with a MM for nearly three years and he has been clear that he will not leave his W. I respect that. She does not strike me as a person who could easily fall into another relationship and I don't think MM wants to destroy her.

 

Anyway, about a year ago she asked my MM "Are you having an affair?" Of course he said "No". Now we all know that when you ask a question like that, you already know the answer deep down inside. Did this prompt her to lose some of the 150 lbs she has gained during the marriage or put some makeup on? Did it prompt her to put on a nice outfit instead of the same old tired sweats she always wears? No,it didn't. This is why I have no sympathy for her. Here she has a guy who is smart, handsome, has a great job and tons of ambition, who stays with her out of pity and she knows deep down that he is cheating, and she obviously does not care. If she does not care, why should I?

[Myowntwofeet]

Myowntwofeet:

 

I agree with you on the stepping away, but disagree on the motives for reconciling.

 

If you read these boards, most of the successfully reconciled BS did exactly that, sparated for quite a while, because they did not want to settled for. Who would?

 

Go get her< I told him. Talk, text, email all you want. But stay away from me, for a very long time, probably forever.

 

It wasn't that he had developed feelings for someone else. It is that he lied and decieved me every day to act on those feelings.

 

He may have thought that in some noble, but cowardly way that he was protecting us, the family. And like most MM, he was successful in convincing his OW to keep this relationship secret for the sake of the children or whatever.

 

If the deception of the affair alone did not cause him enough guilt to NOT ACT on those feelings, do you think I would then allow feelings of guilt for our families well-being as a justification to reconcile?

 

That would be totally ludicrous reasoning for a BS to reconcile, IMO. I wasn't guilty to betray you in every sense of the word, but now that I have been caught, I am terribly guilty regarding the pain I have caused my family.

 

His family did call and beg on his behalf, but no, nada, zip, not doing it, not this girl. You must have me confused with the poor, little wifey....UGH!

 

The most amazing aspect following our DDAY was his total underestimation of the woman he did marry; as if he stopped seeing the strong, resourceful, independent woman I was, had always been.

 

Just amazing how shocked he was about ME throwing HIM under the bus. Imagine that?

 

And I now know, the OW, hearing just his spin of events, also thought he settled for the sake of his family. How noble, what a great guy to sacrifice our love to do the right thing by his children.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Do you think he told her how he was crying a pleading for a second chance? That he was stalking me like a jilted lover, wondering if I had moved on to a new man?

 

Don't think so......

 

Spark, I have been reading these boards a long time and to be honest and if you are honest - very very few BS actually say there is the door.

 

You are rare and not the norm. So I still argue that saying " go, if you want" is the equivalent to " IF you go, your in trouble".

 

What I am saying is that many many (not all) BS and OW settle for the guilt responses - " I am sorry" "She (either) didn't mean anything to me" " Look, I am here... this is where I want to be".

 

Those are all feeling that come from holding on the the past ( not the future) The future whether it is for the BS/OW or even WS will never be the same.

 

I simply see in my opinion that most BS (and OW) hold on for everything they have and of course the WS is going to lean to the BS. Now, add that after DDay OW are always told to step away, tell him to get lost until he has divorce papers, etc.... the WS has yet another reason to stay.

 

Your situation is not the norm, not on LS and not from the friends and personal experience I have been through. But really, if love is the reason, then no time away ( and we do see this with OW/WS who get back together after years apart) will change what is best for all parties.

 

Separation is hard, for any in a long term triangle... but it doesn't mean it is wrong. And taking advantage of history, kids, family is fine... but that does not prove that the WS is there for the BS, it simply means they come with the package.. and as I said if there is any love, then not only is it the easy choice but the WS also knows they aren't "really" settling.

 

I understand my "way" will never actually happen.... but the truth, if there was confidence in the love and importance was place on the parties versus tangible items..... all would step away for at least a year.

[greengoddess]

Spark, I have been reading these boards a long time and to be honest and if you are honest - very very few BS actually say there is the door.

 

You are rare and not the norm. So I still argue that saying " go, if you want" is the equivalent to " IF you go, your in trouble".

 

What makes you say that? Because you see so many posts about people struggling to reconcile? Start a post and ask how many women threw him out when they found out. I think you will find the opposite of what you think. I think you will find most women kicked him to the curb and he did a lot of work to get to the point of a considered reconcilliation.

[bentnotbroken]

To answer the OP's question....I have been with a MM for nearly three years and he has been clear that he will not leave his W. I respect that. She does not strike me as a person who could easily fall into another relationship and I don't think MM wants to destroy her.

 

Anyway, about a year ago she asked my MM "Are you having an affair?" Of course he said "No". Now we all know that when you ask a question like that, you already know the answer deep down inside. Did this prompt her to lose some of the 150 lbs she has gained during the marriage or put some makeup on? Did it prompt her to put on a nice outfit instead of the same old tired sweats she always wears? No,it didn't. This is why I have no sympathy for her. Here she has a guy who is smart, handsome, has a great job and tons of ambition, who stays with her out of pity and she knows deep down that he is cheating, and she obviously does not care. If she does not care, why should I?

 

 

:lmao:Wait a minute, let me get this straight. She asked for the truth, he lied and he stays with her out of pity:lmao::lmao:now that's funny. I'd bet money she wouldn't want your pity. It should probably be saved for someone like that intelligent, ambitious, hardworking, lying, spineless(can't tell the truth if his life depended on it). So if she got cheated on because of the way she looks and dresses, why did those of us who maintained our health and physical appearance get cheated on? I am by no means Halle', Christie, Ivana or Shania, but I am certainly not Fiona from Shrek.

 

Looks have absolutely nothing to do with the lack of character of the person who was given an out by admitting to the affair when asked and still lied to stay with that over-weight, poorly dressed, dim witted slob. He LIED STAY WITH THAT THING. His generosity is so magnanimous, his altruism knows no bounds.

 

Yes, I think you shouldn't feel sorry for her, why? She isn't the one in need of it. That would be him and anyone else who feels the need to continue to spin the web of lies and deceit to stay with a person so unworthy of being respected enough to tell the truth when asked.

[polksaladannie]

:lmao:Wait a minute, let me get this straight. She asked for the truth, he lied and he stays with her out of pity:lmao::lmao:now that's funny. I'd bet money she wouldn't want your pity. It should probably be saved for someone like that intelligent, ambitious, hardworking, lying, spineless(can't tell the truth if his life depended on it). So if she got cheated on because of the way she looks and dresses, why did those of us who maintained our health and physical appearance get cheated on? I am by no means Halle', Christie, Ivana or Shania, but I am certainly not Fiona from Shrek.

 

Looks have absolutely nothing to do with the lack of character of the person who was given an out by admitting to the affair when asked and still lied to stay with that over-weight, poorly dressed, dim witted slob. He LIED STAY WITH THAT THING. His generosity is so magnanimous, his altruism knows no bounds.

 

Yes, I think you shouldn't feel sorry for her, why? She isn't the one in need of it. That would be him and anyone else who feels the need to continue to spin the web of lies and deceit to stay with a person so unworthy of being respected enough to tell the truth when asked.

But be honest(pardon the irony)...why would you feel the need to ask your spouse "Are you cheating?" if you felt that nothing was amiss in your marriage?

[bentnotbroken]

But be honest(pardon the irony)...why would you feel the need to ask your spouse "Are you cheating?" if you felt that nothing was amiss in your marriage?

 

 

Some of us actually trusted our spouses 100%. Because of that trust, I went to him first and expected an honest answer. In most places in the world, something amiss does not equal cheating. It means there is something off, but why would I or anyone else automatically jump to cheating if we trust our partners. Be honest yourself, does problem= cheating?

[polksaladannie]

Some of us actually trusted our spouses 100%. Because of that trust, I went to him first and expected an honest answer. In most places in the world, something amiss does not equal cheating. It means there is something off, but why would I or anyone else automatically jump to cheating if we trust our partners. Be honest yourself, does problem= cheating?

 

Well I do not believe that a satisfied person would cheat...if that is your question.

[Myowntwofeet]

What makes you say that? Because you see so many posts about people struggling to reconcile? Start a post and ask how many women threw him out when they found out. I think you will find the opposite of what you think. I think you will find most women kicked him to the curb and he did a lot of work to get to the point of a considered reconcilliation.

 

I beg to differ. I can recall a couple here, Spark being one of them.

 

In fact of the newer stories, only SPARK comes to mind. It is shun upon in counseling and often IC is shun upon by MC counselors. In a more prominent forum it is considered plan B, plan A is actually the exact opposite.

 

And in my personal circle, I cannot think of one to be frank... not one that threw them out. It took multiple dday's, etc to final toss him to the curb as you say.

 

If anyone truly wants to see the outcome... give it a year... ignore the whining from all parties and then see where everyone's head is. Then people can suggest that the "winning party" ( and I say that VERY loosely, as no one wins here) was choose strictly because of the love for them.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Myowntwofeet

[bentnotbroken]

Well I do not believe that a satisfied person would cheat...if that is your question.

 

 

I don't know if a satisfied person would cheat or not. But I do know that not all unsatisfied people who are missing something in their relationship cheat. Again, why shouldn't a wife who trusts her husband ask if they feel something is off? Shouldn't a spouse be the person you go to when you do have the problem. And to address that problem by lying and cheating and lying about the cheating, speaks more of his lack of character than her weight or clothes.

[bentnotbroken]

I beg to differ. I can recall a couple here, Spark being one of them.

 

In fact of the newer stories, only SPARK comes to mind. It is shun upon in counseling and often IC is shun upon by MC counselors. In a more prominent forum it is considered plan B, plan A is actually the exact opposite.

 

And in my personal circle, I cannot think of one to be frank... not one that threw them out. It took multiple dday's, etc to final toss him to the curb as you say.

 

If anyone truly wants to see the outcome... give it a year... ignore the whining from all parties and then see where everyone's head is. Then people can suggest that the "winning party" ( and I say that VERY loosely, as no one wins here) was choose strictly because of the love for them.

 

 

Out on his azz and ow didn't want him either.

[bentnotbroken]

Well I do not believe that a satisfied person would cheat...if that is your question.

 

 

And my question was "does a problem equal cheating?"

[PhoenixRise]

I beg to differ. I can recall a couple here, Spark being one of them.

 

In fact of the newer stories, only SPARK comes to mind. It is shun upon in counseling and often IC is shun upon by MC counselors. In a more prominent forum it is considered plan B, plan A is actually the exact opposite.

 

And in my personal circle, I cannot think of one to be frank... not one that threw them out. It took multiple dday's, etc to final toss him to the curb as you say.

 

If anyone truly wants to see the outcome... give it a year... ignore the whining from all parties and then see where everyone's head is. Then people can suggest that the "winning party" ( and I say that VERY loosely, as no one wins here) was choose strictly because of the love for them.

 

 

I post here from time to time and I can tell you that not only did I tell my WS to figure out his shi*. I packed up my things and moved away not only to give him all the space he needed to get his head straight, but also to start for myself a new life without him. I told him, "If you want to be with OW go right ahead"

 

If he was in love with another woman then I didn't need or want him taking up space in my life.

 

If he felt remorse then I would expect him to feel this. He lied, cheated, and disrespected me. If he has any character at all he would feel remorse over this. But NEVER would I have allowed guilt to keep him somewhere he didn't want to be. In fact, he sooo disappointed me, when he started asking for a reconciliation, I needed time to figure out if I even wanted to give him another chance.

 

We got back together because he followed me to the state where I moved and because he took many other actions that proved he was worth giving another chance to.

 

BW can and do take initiative and power over their own lives rather than waiting for the WH to decide between two women. Maybe you don't know any who do this but I do.....I have some very powerful women in my family and in my circle of friends, they were my example and my encouragement when my H cheated.

[bittersweet memories]

Spark, I have been reading these boards a long time and to be honest and if you are honest - very very few BS actually say there is the door.

 

I think you are absolutely "WRONG" on this one. You would like to think that, but that is not the case. Not even close...

Edited January 17, 2010 by bittersweet memories