Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[Spark1111]

I wouldn't go as far as that... but I've yet to see a robust, reliable and generalisable study in this area - and I've looked. It's a volatile subject, so I guess that's not surprising.

 

But even if there were statistics, so long as the odds were less than 100%, people (BS or OW) are going to feel that they might be among the lucky ones. People are just optimistic that way - as I posted earlier. Quoting stats at them is not going to change that. And, so long as there are some of us (on whichever side) that things have worked out for, that will continue to give others hope when they read - whether "valid" in their circumstances or not.

 

I agree. We all live with the optimistic hope in our hearts that our love will live in the smaller, successful percentages.

[NoIDidn't]

Great point, Spark.

 

That, and the fact that "guilt" is NOT an attractive quality to most BSs.

 

We don't want a guilty spouse back. We want the one that is willing to work with us to RESTORE our marriages, not some guilty schmuck that's only thinking of themselves. If that's the way they feel, they can go be with the OP, IMHO.

[OWoman]

That, and the fact that "guilt" is NOT an attractive quality to most BSs.

 

We don't want a guilty spouse back. We want the one that is willing to work with us to RESTORE our marriages, not some guilty schmuck that's only thinking of themselves. If that's the way they feel, they can go be with the OP, IMHO.

 

No one finds guilt attractive!

 

As I posted earlier in the thread, the "work" the BS demands of a repentant spouse is the same as the "work" demanded by the OW of the MM who leaves his M. It's certainly no soft landing - he has to sort himself and prove - as much to himself as to the OW or anyone else - that any issues he had that led to his A are resolved and won't repeat in his R with the fOW.

[NoIDidn't]

Sorry about the Spark/Silk mix up.

 

My point was all stats are crap... ( including your mathematics of the 95-97%).

 

So, again.... no relevance, and I really had no desire to open up another " crap stat point".

 

I got your point the first time, and that is why I included the "and another and another." sentence. You only opened the door to MORE stats when you waste your time debating them.

 

The discussion was why are BS not understood.... because neither side wants to look at reality... we all want to "one up".

 

It doesn't work an imo, believe it never will. Too many want to spout statistics to defend their position.

 

So how about the answer.... we both love the same man, we are both hoping it will work out.... that is the real truth. That if you really love someone, a stat is not going to make you give up on that, if it is actually love.

 

Love is supporting ( regardless of what side of the fence you sit on) but the frustration for many long term OW is when we choose to do that, we are "settling". Yet when BS are choosing it, it is "support and understanding".

 

I say the minute we realize LOVE cannot be scrutinized like which store you shop at or how often you eat out.... we may just start to open the door to understanding both sides better.

 

Exactly. The point of THIS thread is why "BS" is not understood. NOT why the OW/OM (long-term or otherwise) is not understood.

 

The BS is in a *legitimate* relationship with HIS/HER spouse. The relationship with the "other" is often hidden and denied.

 

The only "one-upping" I'm seeing is the constant turning this thread around to somehow legitimize the feelings of the OP for the MP over that of the BS. As if the BS needs to understand them first. The case is continually made that the BS is NOT shown understanding because the OPs insist that they can't understand the BS unless the BS first shows them understanding.

 

This is some backwards thinking if I ever saw it. And let's not bring the words of the AP/MP into this. We are not asking what the AP/MP said about their BS to the OP. The question was why is the BS not understood. Why is the BS expected to always respond with dignity and class in such a crass/insulting situation? Why is the BS asked to undersand everyone else BUT themselves?

 

And my bolded sentence is where there is much double-standards among the OPs. Their desire is for the BS to own what happened in the affair, to own the affair happening in their marriage. But only the bad things. Why can't the BS remind themselves that they were indeed a good spouse, that they too were LOYAL TO A FAULT, that they too LOVE the wayward spouse?

 

There is little understanding of the position that the BS is put into. I, for one, am getting annoyed with this conversation always being steered back to the feelings of the OP, OW in particular.

[NoIDidn't]

No one finds guilt attractive!

 

As I posted earlier in the thread, the "work" the BS demands of a repentant spouse is the same as the "work" demanded by the OW of the MM who leaves his M. It's certainly no soft landing - he has to sort himself and prove - as much to himself as to the OW or anyone else - that any issues he had that led to his A are resolved and won't repeat in his R with the fOW.

 

Oh, I agree with you Owoman. But so many OW don't believe what you and I are saying in regards to the BS. They think that the BS welcomes the WS back with open arms, as long as they "win". The "if-I-can't-have-him-no-one-will" mentality assumed of the BS.

 

I am finding it rather "irksome" to see that some can only envision the BW in light of the OW feelings. This thread isn't about the OW's feelings or any work she might have to do to make a relationship with the MP work. Its about the BSs, the BWs and BHs that are left behind or that reconcile.

[crazycatlady]

I am an amazing spouse. I make meals I don't like because he does, when he worked a job that allowed him to be home for lunch, I tried to be home at least three days a week to make his lunch, often more then that. I do morning sex because he loves it. I will stay in bed until he's awake to make sure if he wants it he can have it. I tend to arrange things to make his life easier as much as possible. I do a lot lot lot more....now and before...

 

BUT during the time of the A I had slacked off on that....I had gotten back into the habit of taking him for granted. It happens now and then. Sure H could have manned up and talked to me about it, but I think he did sorta fall into the A. It happens.

 

The A reminded me that a marriage has to be tended, it can not be taken for granted. On either side. But once that bond has been breached by an A, if the married parties can not let go of the hurt anger grief and guilt (yeah because guilt is totally unsexy good call whoever said that) the M can not be saved. All it can be done is dragged on wounded with everyone dissatisfied.

 

But I'll say it. I'm a freaking awesome wife.

 

CCL

[angie2443]

I am an amazing spouse. I make meals I don't like because he does, when he worked a job that allowed him to be home for lunch, I tried to be home at least three days a week to make his lunch, often more then that. I do morning sex because he loves it. I will stay in bed until he's awake to make sure if he wants it he can have it. I tend to arrange things to make his life easier as much as possible. I do a lot lot lot more....now and before...

 

 

It sounds to me like you were jumping through hoops. Sure, you can't take a person for granted in a relationship, but was he bending over backwards for you also? Was/is your relationship equal when it comes to who gives and who takes?

[dazzle22]

I am sorry, but I just don't understand all the OW perseverating about why he would take his wife back, why he wandered, etc. This is all MOOT.! The WIFE has a legally BINDING arrangement with this man. Doesn't matter what her reasons are for wanting him back. She has a LEGAL RIGHT to the relationship with him. YOU as the OW do NOT!

 

It is like this. (Now I am not saying you OWN your spouse, but you do OWN a unique relationship in marriage. Remember the LEGAL document everyone signs after the vows????Oh yea, that PESKY little paper...)... You own a house. Perhaps you have not been painting it, perhaps you have let some weeds grow in the yard, perhaps some windows are broken. A SQUATTER comes by, says, oh, this poor house looks "neglected," looks like it needs some "loving care", "if this house were mine I would do such and such"....so you look inside, and guess what? No owner there at present. The house just "seems to be calling to you..."

 

So you move in, paint, pull weeds. Well guess what? The owner was away sick, or on vacation, whatever, DOESN'T matter, the OWNER COMES BACK, and wants you out. She OWNS that house. She does not like what you have done with the place. You say, why does she want this house back? I am taking much better care of it, the house likes me, blah, blah, whatever. DOES NOT MATTER. SHE has the DEED to the place.

 

It DOES NOT MATTER why she wants the property back. If she wants to burn the place down and sow the ground with roundup, that is her RIGHT! (ie..get a divorce and take him to the cleaners, or make him buy her a 6 mill ring ala Coby Bryant). It is really all very cut and dried when you cut out all the emotional noise, because we are talking about a LEGAL right of relationship here. Not just GF/BF...

[reboot]

Very nice analogy dazzle.

[Spark1111]

I got your point the first time, and that is why I included the "and another and another." sentence. You only opened the door to MORE stats when you waste your time debating them.

 

 

 

Exactly. The point of THIS thread is why "BS" is not understood. NOT why the OW/OM (long-term or otherwise) is not understood.

 

The BS is in a *legitimate* relationship with HIS/HER spouse. The relationship with the "other" is often hidden and denied.

 

The only "one-upping" I'm seeing is the constant turning this thread around to somehow legitimize the feelings of the OP for the MP over that of the BS. As if the BS needs to understand them first. The case is continually made that the BS is NOT shown understanding because the OPs insist that they can't understand the BS unless the BS first shows them understanding.

 

This is some backwards thinking if I ever saw it. And let's not bring the words of the AP/MP into this. We are not asking what the AP/MP said about their BS to the OP. The question was why is the BS not understood. Why is the BS expected to always respond with dignity and class in such a crass/insulting situation? Why is the BS asked to undersand everyone else BUT themselves?

 

And my bolded sentence is where there is much double-standards among the OPs. Their desire is for the BS to own what happened in the affair, to own the affair happening in their marriage. But only the bad things. Why can't the BS remind themselves that they were indeed a good spouse, that they too were LOYAL TO A FAULT, that they too LOVE the wayward spouse?

 

There is little understanding of the position that the BS is put into. I, for one, am getting annoyed with this conversation always being steered back to the feelings of the OP, OW in particular.

 

Good point NID!

 

My desire to understand the motivations of the OW are to help me heal. I have bent over backwards to do so, I think you would agree, if you read all my posts.

 

And you are right; The MM's "perceived" unhappiness in the marriage is often used for justification of the affair by both the MP and the OW/OM.

 

I say that can be "bunk," but I am realistic enough to realize that it can also be true. Won't dispute that.

 

What is disputable to me, is that I am not, nor ever was, the little wifey who settled for him, or would allow him to settle for me, no matter what he told his xAP at their last post DDAY, "I need to work on my marriage" break-up conversation.

 

And I started this thread to see why it is so OFTEN ASSUMED that MM return out of a sense of obligation and not TRUE LOVE, which is so often an opinion posted here.

 

Because that is not always true.

 

And sometimes the negative issues in the marriage are a fifty-fifty split, and other times the issues rest completely with the WS, no matter what picture is painted to the OW/OM regarding both the marriage and the BS.

 

Just as I assumed all he told me about the OW may or may not be true, I find it hard to accept that so many OW/OM feel whatever the Ap says about the BS must be the gospel truth.

 

Seems naive to me.

[reboot]

I think it's pretty rare that the issues in a marriage ever rest completely with the WS.

[Spark1111]

I am sorry, but I just don't understand all the OW perseverating about why he would take his wife back, why he wandered, etc. This is all MOOT.! The WIFE has a legally BINDING arrangement with this man. Doesn't matter what her reasons are for wanting him back. She has a LEGAL RIGHT to the relationship with him. YOU as the OW do NOT!

 

It is like this. (Now I am not saying you OWN your spouse, but you do OWN a unique relationship in marriage. Remember the LEGAL document everyone signs after the vows????Oh yea, that PESKY little paper...)... You own a house. Perhaps you have not been painting it, perhaps you have let some weeds grow in the yard, perhaps some windows are broken. A SQUATTER comes by, says, oh, this poor house looks "neglected," looks like it needs some "loving care", "if this house were mine I would do such and such"....so you look inside, and guess what? No owner there at present. The house just "seems to be calling to you..."

 

So you move in, paint, pull weeds. Well guess what? The owner was away sick, or on vacation, whatever, DOESN'T matter, the OWNER COMES BACK, and wants you out. She OWNS that house. She does not like what you have done with the place. You say, why does she want this house back? I am taking much better care of it, the house likes me, blah, blah, whatever. DOES NOT MATTER. SHE has the DEED to the place.

 

It DOES NOT MATTER why she wants the property back. If she wants to burn the place down and sow the ground with roundup, that is her RIGHT! (ie..get a divorce and take him to the cleaners, or make him buy her a 6 mill ring ala Coby Bryant). It is really all very cut and dried when you cut out all the emotional noise, because we are talking about a LEGAL right of relationship here. Not just GF/BF...

 

I agree, Reboot. This is a great analogy with one clarification if we are speaking in legalese here:

 

I did not rent you the house. I did not even know of your existence, so essentially, the house was open and empty and you moved in (whether invited to or not) like a squatter into the house I hold the deed to.

 

Whether you did it for love or lonliness is a moot point, contractually speaking.

[jennie-jennie]

And I started this thread to see why it is so OFTEN ASSUMED that MM return out of a sense of obligation and not TRUE LOVE, which is so often an opinion posted here.

 

In my particular case I find it hard to believe that it would be true love and not a sense of obligation that would make my MM go back to his wife. I mean just because there would be a Dday, I can't see him suddenly start loving her again when he has not, not in the in-love sense, done that for four years.

 

If he can not bring himself to leave me and go back and love her, the love for her must not be enough. If he needs a Dday to do that.

 

Just thinking out loud. No offense to any BS.

[crazycatlady]

It sounds to me like you were jumping through hoops. Sure, you can't take a person for granted in a relationship, but was he bending over backwards for you also? Was/is your relationship equal when it comes to who gives and who takes?

 

 

LOL Sounds like I do jump through hoops, but its nothing like that at all. In return I get to go "Honey can you get me a drink" while we are sitting next to each other, and he will jump up and do it. I'm going on a 5 day vacation with my sisters, and he pretty much said "YOU are going" when he heard my sister suggest the idea. Its a give and take relationship. When its at its best.

 

And I'll be honest, I am more inclined to start taking him for granted and thus not doing the little things that show my appreciation for him, then he is. But he's more inclined to not say anything when it happens where as if I feel he's stopping doing the things I need, I'll call him on it.

 

Sadly the lunches have stopped (it wasnever a hardship to make sure i was home during those time, it was just a matter of not sticking around talking when I was done volunteering at school) because of his work schedule. I miss them because it was a time for just him and I to enjoy each other's company with no one else around.

 

CCL

[jennie-jennie]

In my particular case I find it hard to believe that it would be true love and not a sense of obligation that would make my MM go back to his wife. I mean just because there would be a Dday, I can't see him suddenly start loving her again when he has not, not in the in-love sense, done that for four years.

 

If he can not bring himself to leave me and go back and love her, the love for her must not be enough. If he needs a Dday to do that.

 

Just thinking out loud. No offense to any BS.

 

Just think about the WSs who frequent this board. I can immediately think of more than a handful WSs who are back in their marriages trying but not feeling that spark, that passion. Only one former WS comes to mind stating that the marriage is now good and working.

[Snowflower]

Just think about the WSs who frequent this board. I can immediately think of more than a handful WSs who are back in their marriages trying but not feeling that spark, that passion. Only one former WS comes to mind stating that the marriage is now good and working.

 

Are you talking about WH or WW?

 

If you are talking about WH...perhaps that is because most who have regained that spark for their marriage are no longer here posting so we can't get their viewpoint.

 

It's usually BW/OW who post as they try to make sense of it all.

 

LS is helpful but the posters here are by no means an accurate cross-section of the married population, IMO.

 

IMO, very few WH post either here in infidelity or in the OW/OM forum anyway. It's a shame because I like to hear the perspective of the WH/OM.

[Hazyhead]

In my particular case I find it hard to believe that it would be true love and not a sense of obligation that would make my MM go back to his wife. I mean just because there would be a Dday, I can't see him suddenly start loving her again when he has not, not in the in-love sense, done that for four years.

 

If he can not bring himself to leave me and go back and love her, the love for her must not be enough. If he needs a Dday to do that.

 

Just thinking out loud. No offense to any BS.

 

I'm sorry to join this thread late. I have followed it, out of trying to understand the BS point of view - something I didn't, and still don't, feel qualified to comment on.

 

I was just wondering what you meant JJ, with your point that the love for her must not be enough if he needs a Dday to make him go back to her and leave you.

 

Not criticising! Just don't know what you mean (sorry!)

[jennie-jennie]

Are you talking about WH or WW?

 

I am talking about both WH and WW. This question has long interested me, so I have been giving attention to this since I started reading the board in April.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm sorry to join this thread late. I have followed it, out of trying to understand the BS point of view - something I didn't, and still don't, feel qualified to comment on.

 

I was just wondering what you meant JJ, with your point that the love for her must not be enough if he needs a Dday to make him go back to her and leave you.

 

Not criticising! Just don't know what you mean (sorry!)

 

It is a fresh thought, I don't know if it will hold. But for four years my MM has been coming closer and closer to me and further and further away from his wife. He has been giving me more and more of his attention, his love, his sex, his romance until I have become his only partner in that sense.

 

Still, come a Dday, I know he might stay with her. But I can't see his emotions changing suddenly. He won't be loving her more than before just because there is a Dday. It is not the love that has switched objects, it is the threat that he will lose his marriage that has occurred.

 

He has tried several times during these years to end our relationship but he has not been able to. So if a Dday would make that happen, it would not be out of love, it would be to keep what he still has in his marriage.

[anne1707]

JJ

 

I suspect you might mean me as the former WS whose marriage is working. I think as has been said there are other former WS out there who have managed to rekindle that spark but just don't post on LS anymore. It feels to me as if most who come to LS are either the BS or the AP so we don't get a fair representation of the WS to really get a clear idea of how well or badly they might be doing after the affair.

[Hazyhead]

It is a fresh thought, I don't know if it will hold. But for four years my MM has been coming closer and closer to me and further and further away from his wife. He has been giving me more and more of his attention, his love, his sex, his romance until I have become his only partner in that sense.

 

Still, come a Dday, I know he might stay with her. But I can't see his emotions changing suddenly. He won't be loving her more than before just because there is a Dday. It is not the love that has switched objects, it is the threat that he will lose his marriage that has occurred.

 

He has tried several times during these years to end our relationship but he has not been able to. So if a Dday would make that happen, it would not be out of love, it would be to keep what he still has in his marriage.

 

I see, thank you. Does his wife not know? It's amazing if not that you have managed to keep the secret all this time!

[cyabye]

Then if you don't agree with him as to the fact that he was better than ur H then why cheat? I am confused. My wife cheated on me when we had a baby @ home

I can tell you that the baby was THE ONLY reason I agreed to try & make it work. I love my child more than I do myself; that is what being a parent is all about in my opinion.

I will never know why she really did it, as she has lied to me so many times. I got married & agreed to forsake ALL others, so I will never understand cheaters. They are the epitomy of selfishness. I would leave my wife if I ever felt that I absolutely had to

have sex with another woman. I can only assume that my wife believed that he was better than me in whatever way, but then realized the truth...a sex only relationship is always going to seem better than one based in real life; with real problems.

The sad thing is that she destroyed what we had & it can never be repaired. She is not who I thought she was, so the entire foundation of our relationship is gone. I will never fully trust her, will never fully be happy & will always be angry @ myself for not being strong enough to put my needs ahead of my childs...even though it was the right thing to do btw.

I hope she found whatever she (& all you cheaters) was looking for, as I lost everything that was pure in the marriage.

 

 

I am joining the topic a bit late but I agree 100% with this post. BRAVO!

 

cya

[jennie-jennie]

I see, thank you. Does his wife not know? It's amazing if not that you have managed to keep the secret all this time!

 

I believe she does not know. He thinks she might know in the back of her mind but push it away. He says she does that when there are things she does not want to see.

 

We did have a mini Dday when we were still only in an EA. She came upon him when he was writing an email to me on his laptop and he closed his laptop too quickly. He did tell her that I was a girl he knew from his teenage years, but that the emails were innocent just asking how life was. Still, she crashed for three days.

[Dexter Morgan]

They did want the same person, no doubt. If the WS cheats for the first time and AP believes this to be true along with all the complaints he/she received about BS it only stands to reason he/she would be confused that the WS goes back.

 

In the case of a SC (serial cheater) I say the BS can have him! Let her deal with that S***!

 

doesn't matter, the OW/OM still wants a cheater, whether serial or not, yet will look down on a BS that stays.

 

the way I see it, its harder for most BS's to get away from a cheater. Some truly want their WS, why I don't know(but I won't best them for it), and some simply seem trapped....the fear of the unknown in a divorce, the kids...etc.

[silktricks]

I'm sure we can agree on this. Whatever the reason, he still cheated. But for some strange reason it is easier, most often, for the BS to believe the OP was the pursuer and his/her spouse was the victim of circumstance. This takes the blame off the WS and puts it solely on the s*** seducer of an OP.

 

If the BW can convince her H that the OW was a s***, at least in her mind, she can forgive him and move forward in the M. Most often he goes right back to banging the OW and the W thinks she's done her job of disparaging the OW in her H's head. He probably pretends to agree with his W while in the same day is apologizing profusely to his lover that his W has said these malicious things about her.

There are so many things I disagree with in your post, that it's almost a waste to bother posting. You seem to want to believe :

 

1. The BS is trying to convince her WH about how bad the OP is. Whereas, among many of the people I've known, including myself, the BS felt only bad for the woman, and impressed on him the need to be straight with her. Usually, I understand that it's the WS that is busily denigrating the OP to the wife...

2. The WH will without a doubt go back to the OP. Sometimes, yes, they do, obviously. But oftentimes they do not.

3. You state that it's easier for the BS to see the OP as the pursuer. I don't agree with this. I don't think it's any easier to see your husband as someone who has so little integrity that he can be swayed by someone who comes onto him.

 

But regardless, I don't think in any case, seeing a situation the way that is possibly more comfortable, or more palatable will in the long run gain anything. Until both parties (and preferably all three) see the situation as it IS, no one can recover or heal or move on with their lives. Reality is the only thing that really works, IMO.

 

WF - normally I think of you as pretty level headed and fair, but it seems to me that you are somewhat upset over something in this thread. Your posts in this thread have in my mind confirmed much of what the thread began with - the BS is misunderstood - and basically denigrated by most OP.

Edited January 18, 2010 by silktricks