Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[jennie-jennie]

Me too!!

 

Guess there is one thing BS and OW have in common!

[moaningmyrtle]

I pretty well agree with most of the last few posters who have expressed it so well.

 

One thing still bothers me, it was said by Devil Inside in post #30:

 

"I am glad to see this discussion has turned into a bash fest."

 

 

Was this an error or have OW really interpreted this as a bash fest?

 

I haven't seen it that way myself.

[jennie-jennie]

I pretty well agree with most of the last few posters who have expressed it so well.

 

One thing still bothers me, it was said by Devil Inside in post #30:

 

"I am glad to see this discussion has turned into a bash fest."

 

 

Was this an error or have OW really interpreted this as a bash fest?

 

I haven't seen it that way myself.

 

I reacted to that too, Myrtle. His words surprised me.

[PhoenixRise]

I pretty well agree with most of the last few posters who have expressed it so well.

 

One thing still bothers me, it was said by Devil Inside in post #30:

 

"I am glad to see this discussion has turned into a bash fest."

 

 

Was this an error or have OW really interpreted this as a bash fest?

 

I haven't seen it that way myself.

 

I reacted to that too, Myrtle. His words surprised me.

 

 

I noticed that too.

Maybe it was a typo and he meant to say it hasn't turned into a bash fest

 

I don't think anybody is getting bashed or even upset by the comments made in this thread.

[skylarblue]

Silktricks, I did not quote you (post#72), but I really did appreciate your genuine response. I wasn’t trying to be offensive, though I understand my views (normally) are seen as unfavorable, and really glad you didn’t take it that way. I wasn’t trying to imply that BS don’t stay out of love, but I tend to believe that love is never/rarely the only reason. I just think that the betrayal of a WS is so devastating it’s hard for me to see the “love” superseding it. But as one poster said you can't possibly understand until you've been there and I’ve never been there so…I understand that BS DO stay in the M because of love and I believe you and your situation as an example. You have a much more forgiving nature than I would give myself credit for as I do not think I’d have the “voluntary” fortitude, either emotionally or mentally, to stay in the M. Honestly, I use to think BS who stayed were “weak”, but actually I’ve come to realize how much strength it takes for some to stay. I would think I’d find some solace if my H came out with the A as oppose to me finding out though.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by silktricks

I think you are assuming the WS is much more manipulative than I believe they normally are. I'm not talking serial cheaters - maybe they think exactly as you say, but I know that my husband thought I was going to leave him. And... what do you call "little consequence"? My husband went through sheer hell after the affair. I wasn't easy on him - and he wasn't easy on himself. Also, I think you are assuming that a woman knows beforehand that she's going to forgive her husband if he has an affair. I don't know of any woman - ever - who has that thought…

 

I wasn’t thinking about serial cheaters or even as a manipulative move. Nor did I mean to imply that a woman knows beforehand that she's going to forgive her husband if he has an affair. It just seems that most cases of WS/BS are W who forgive their H. I don’t think MM really consider D a factor because its so common for the W to take the H back. I may be wrong, but I think most MM aren’t really sorry for the A. They may be sorry that they got caught or hurt their W in that manner, but not that they did it (assuming it doesn't end in D). And... what do you call "little consequence"? MM that cry, beg, and plead, show some kind gestures and affection for a while and expect everything to be fine and normal. Meanwhile, the W has to bottle her emotions in public, be devastated in private, and learn to live with. It doesn’t seem fair. I understand that wasn’t the way in your case (as for the H getting off easy), but that’s how I always perceive it.

[jennie-jennie]

I have been there. I have been the BS. So I know that my love for my SO did not die because he had an affair/affairs. How could I leave him when he was still the man I loved?

[crazycatlady]

I stayed for love and love only. If I left, he would keep the kids (my choice, this was something we decided a number of years ago when due to many factors - but not an affair - that we came close to seperating). I love my children, but I could not support us. He could support them without me because I was a stay at home mom - still am mostly. So financial reasons have never been a reason to stay. We both agree unhappy people married together shouldn't be - part of the one time we did discuss seperation - even for children, and that its better to part as friends so we can make D work for the kids as best as possible, rather then wait until unhappiness turns into hate.

 

I'm not afraid to be alone. I can support myself, not the kids and myself, but myself, and I've no problem with him gaining physical custody, he's an awesome father and would be fair with me about sharing custody.

 

I'm not settling. I'm stay with the man I love who loves me. His error well it was stupid, but I've forgiven both him and the ow, and even myself. I don't look at it and see him with her....even at my hurtest moment I didn't see that. When I look at him, all I see is the man I want to throw down and make mad passionate love to. Mmmm he makes me hot. I'm not giving that up

 

CCL

[jennie-jennie]

When I look at him, all I see is the man I want to throw down and make mad passionate love to. Mmmm he makes me hot. I'm not giving that up

 

CCL

 

I know just what you mean.

[crazycatlady]

JJ - its been 14 years and I still want him as much as I ever have. So you deal with the **** because the cow gives awesome milk. :bunny: Yeah he's a guy but hey I couldn't come up with a better metaphor lol.

 

I just....physical abuse is probably the only absolute 100% I would leave him over. I can't imagine any other reason that I would definately leave over.

 

Sorry, I think I need to go jump someone now

 

CCL

[silktricks]

 

I wasn’t thinking about serial cheaters or even as a manipulative move. Nor did I mean to imply that a woman knows beforehand that she's going to forgive her husband if he has an affair. It just seems that most cases of WS/BS are W who forgive their H. I don’t think MM really consider D a factor because its so common for the W to take the H back. I may be wrong, but I think most MM aren’t really sorry for the A. They may be sorry that they got caught or hurt their W in that manner, but not that they did it (assuming it doesn't end in D).

 

And... what do you call "little consequence"? MM that cry, beg, and plead, show some kind gestures and affection for a while and expect everything to be fine and normal. Meanwhile, the W has to bottle her emotions in public, be devastated in private, and learn to live with. It doesn’t seem fair. I understand that wasn’t the way in your case (as for the H getting off easy), but that’s how I always perceive it.

 

I don't know, actually, if you are wrong or not for "most MM". I do know that my husband bitterly regrets the affair itself (especially since he didn't get "caught"). His attitude about himself was altered irrevocably. He cannot see himself with the same view he formerly held. He is also much more forgiving and tolerant now of other people's "mistakes", than he used to be.... well, some other people's anyway... .

 

I do agree that any person who deeply hurts another and then expects that after a few days of pleading and I'm sorry's that all should now be well and never mentioned again... those people aren't really sorry about much of anything other than getting caught, and people like that who are "forgiven" by their spouse will probably end up doing the same thing again.

 

But for a spouse who really puts in the work to rebuild the marriage - those people - both MP and BS - they are pretty strong people who have experienced a tremendous amount of what I call "tempering pain". Hurts like h*!!, but makes a strong bond that is probably unbreakable in the future.

 

To be truthful, one of the reasons I never told ANYONE (other than here) is that I did not want to be "perceived" in the way you state. I am not a weak person, and would have difficulty with someone having that perception of me. We knew what happened between us, no one else needed to.

 

BTW, Skylar, thanks for the compliment in your earlier post. I appreciated it.

[Spark1111]

Skylar, I cannot tell you how many people, mostly women, told me after DDAY, that they would NEVER forgive their husbands for an affair and swore they would divorce or shoot him first.

 

I cannot tell you then, how many, among friends and family, confided their own indiscretions in the marriage that both partners had worked through to a positive result to me....

 

I was stunned.

 

It reinforced the truism that you do not know what you will do when faced with a situation. You can never say never. You should never spit into the wind.

 

But I will say that nothing I have ever been through compares to the courage, effort, pain, and soul-searching of putting "us" back together after his affair.

 

I wouldn't experience this again for money, children, history or status quo, or settling of ANY KIND.

 

Only love makes the effort worthwhile.

[reboot]

Only love makes the effort worthwhile.

 

Well said.

 

A lot of people don't realize that love rarely dies a quick death. They think it's as simple as (and maybe for a rare few it's even true), "oh, he/she did this terrible thing to me, so I no longer love them". For most of us, that just doesn't happen. Oh sure, eventually, if nothing is done to repair the hurt, but love isn't like a faucet you can turn on and off at will.

[Samantha0905]

As a xMOW, I disagree!!!!! I stayed in my M for many reasons and my H and xMM both know why and my reasons are NOT lies.

 

1. I love my H, we are great friends and get along well, I owe my M a try.

2. Grew up in a very loving, two parent home and I would prefer we reconcile for our children.

3. My H and I have done very well financially, no debt, good investments, and in the process of great planning for retirement and our childrens' education. Interrupt this?

 

And there are other reasons. I do not understand why these reasons are most likely lies!

 

I agree, those factors are extremely important in relationships. A major reason many have affairs, those factors are missing.

 

I'm sorry, but during the time of my A, there was no passion and intimacy in my M. And if I had put these factors at the top of my list when considering whether or not to stay with my H, I would have left. Therefore, all of the other factors(kids, finances, etc) were my primary considerations. I had to focus on the positives to want to stay.

 

I desire passion, excitement, and intimacy in my relationship and striving to achieve this with my H. Like many other WS, at home for many reasons but struggling to regain passion.

 

I so relate to your posts. I'm in the same position.

 

I think it may be wise to act as you have. The passion, excitement and intimacy one feels in an affair may very well not be long lasting. A person could end up in the same boat or most likely, worse. I've heard only 10% (at best) who try to forge on in a relationship that begins in an affair make it. Dr. Phil claimed 5% on his show today, according to the internet -- I missed the show. So, I'm assuming these affairs were filled with passion/excitement in the beginning -- and the "intimacy" is perceived to be there and perhaps not really there. There is an intimacy that is created in a passionate/exciting relationship, but the intimacy from a long-term relationship is greater.

 

I wonder sometimes if sometimes we just don't convince ourselves we're so unhappy and lacking intimacy, when in fact -- the long term relationship holds many positive values and we lose sight of them in the overwhelming excitement of the affair.

 

Even knowing all of this, it's still there. The temptation to begin anew with the AP. It boggles my mind. I don't know why this lingers with me. I know the right thing to do.

[anne1707]

There is an intimacy that is created in a passionate/exciting relationship, but the intimacy from a long-term relationship is greater.

 

 

This is so true and is a fundamental part of why I wanted to stay with my H and not leave for the ex-OM. What my H and I had and still have goes far deeper than anything I experienced with the ex-OM.

[jennie-jennie]

There is an intimacy that is created in a passionate/exciting relationship, but the intimacy from a long-term relationship is greater.

 

Combine those two and you got a passionate, exciting long-term relationship with great intimacy. That's what I have with my MM. :love:

Edited January 13, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Brokenlady]

I have a hard time wondering why that empathy is so rarely reciprocated by so many on the other forum.

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. For all of their pain, the BS is usually the lasting choice for the WS and the OW gets tossed aside like used cat litter. The BS gets the chance to improve the relationship anew and grow together into a new marriage. Theoretically BS's don't "need" the sympathy, because they "win". They can rest easy knowing the WS chose life and love with them.

 

And even if that doesn't happen, at least the BS can get answers as to why all this happened to them. They just roll over and ask the WS why they did these things and can process them together. The OW usually doesn't get that chance, and she's left alone to deal with her demons. If she wants to know why he treated her like garbage, she can't ask him and is left to wonder. She will always know she was not his choice.

[Brokenlady]

To say that a MM is settling when he decides to stay married discounts the marriage for the person who says it. I can imagine that an OW who falls in love with a MM would find it hurtful to believe that the MM really loves his wife. It makes it easier to think that he would rather be with her (the OW), but he chooses his wife for reasons other than love.

 

 

And likewise, I imagine BS's would find it hurtful to believe the MM really love the OW (it wasn't just "affair fog"). It's much easier to think the MM was just using the OW for sex. I think both of these perceptions are usually just denial, and bear little resemblance to reality.

[Samantha0905]

Combine those two and you got a passionate, exciting long-term relationship with great intimacy. That's what I have with my MM. :love:

 

I just don't think it's the same if he's married to someone else. What do you think his wife has with him? He can't possibly be giving of himself in total intimacy/love/care to either of you. If that's okay with both of you, I suppose it works for you at present. Perhaps the concept of receiving someone totally like that may be a romantic notion -- but it doesn't necessarily mean things will always be perfect between two people.

 

I know that I definitely feel like I'm being very not nice to my spouse when deceiving him and having an affair. I also don't feel like I'm being very nice to my AP or him to me. For me, it feels like using both my husband and my AP -- but I can only speak for myself.

 

Doesn't true love involve being strong in times of trouble -- strong in your love for one another? Love involves commitment and fidelity -- forsaking all others? Putting the object of one's love before oneself? When we have affairs, we love self more than others.

 

If OM/OW truly loved their married AP -- I'm speaking the true definition of love here -- wouldn't they want the best for them (and themselves) and demand a decision be made? Or send them off until a decision is made? I think they should want the best for the married AP and vice versa.

 

It seems if two people truly loved one another, there would be no third person involved. If that decision isn't made -- by everyone involved -- cowardice is present.

[Brokenlady]

Okay, but it could have gone the other way . What if he had chosen her????? Hell, that what I thought he was going to do.

 

Would I still be bitter today? Would I assume he had gone backwards, not forwards? Would I asssume she knew everything about me and our relationship?

 

 

I think in part OW are tempted to view staying with the BS as settling because it's easier than splitting. The financial and emotional upheaval, social consequences, etc of divorcing for an AP are usually less attractive than staying with the status quo, even if not completely fulfilling.

 

Now, if an MM chooses to leave and is willing to go through all of that, it's harder for the BS to write off the OW and her realtionship with the MM as inconsequential. Leaving a M for an OW is insult to injury for the BS and shakes the sense of self-worth. I can't imagine many BS's would resist the temptation to think that the MM was stepping-down, too starry-eyed to see what a real b*tch the OW is, just waiting for the moment the WS realizes their "mistake" and comes running back.

 

Honestly, the OW looking at the WS staying the M as "settling" is no different than a BS looking at leaving the M for a OW as a "huge mistake".

[jennie-jennie]

I just don't think it's the same if he's married to someone else. What do you think his wife has with him? He can't possibly be giving of himself in total intimacy/love/care to either of you. If that's okay with both of you, I suppose it works for you at present. Perhaps the concept of receiving someone totally like that may be a romantic notion -- but it doesn't necessarily mean things will always be perfect between two people.

 

I know that I definitely feel like I'm being very not nice to my spouse when deceiving him and having an affair. I also don't feel like I'm being very nice to my AP or him to me. For me, it feels like using both my husband and my AP -- but I can only speak for myself.

 

Doesn't true love involve being strong in times of trouble -- strong in your love for one another? Love involves commitment and fidelity -- forsaking all others? Putting the object of one's love before oneself? When we have affairs, we love self more than others.

 

If OM/OW truly loved their married AP -- I'm speaking the true definition of love here -- wouldn't they want the best for them (and themselves) and demand a decision be made? Or send them off until a decision is made? I think they should want the best for the married AP and vice versa.

 

It seems if two people truly loved one another, there would be no third person involved. If that decision isn't made -- by everyone involved -- cowardice is present.

 

Samantha, I am a middle-aged woman who is rather passionate by nature. I tend to have long-term passionate relationships. The one with my MM is no exception. In fact, because he was so starved for sex and intimacy when we got together, he really appreciates my passionate nature.

 

In my opinon not all love is unselfish love. The love for a partner is selfish. We want what the partner can give us. It is not like the love for a child or a parent or even a friend. It is different. It is selfish just like the act of sex in a way has to be selfish. When you see your partner desire you your own desire heightens. When your partner desires to touch you, it is the more exciting.

 

We like the way our partner makes us feel. If he/she does not treat us right, we want to end the relationship. We fall out of love, we start looking for someone else. With no other love bond do we expect so much satisfaction - emotionally, intellectually and sexually.

[Spark1111]

I think in part OW are tempted to view staying with the BS as settling because it's easier than splitting. The financial and emotional upheaval, social consequences, etc of divorcing for an AP are usually less attractive than staying with the status quo, even if not completely fulfilling.

 

Now, if an MM chooses to leave and is willing to go through all of that, it's harder for the BS to write off the OW and her realtionship with the MM as inconsequential. Leaving a M for an OW is insult to injury for the BS and shakes the sense of self-worth. I can't imagine many BS's would resist the temptation to think that the MM was stepping-down, too starry-eyed to see what a real b*tch the OW is, just waiting for the moment the WS realizes their "mistake" and comes running back.

 

Honestly, the OW looking at the WS staying the M as "settling" is no different than a BS looking at leaving the M for a OW as a "huge mistake".

 

It wasn't that he developed feelings or even fell in love with her.

 

It was that he LIED about it to me, whether for reasons of cowardice, selfishness, or CONTROL. He could have his passion on the sly, but GOD forbid I was given the same opportunity to seek mine elsewhere too.

 

Tell me! We could have separated, gone to counseling to see if there was a marriage worth salvaging, and BOTH honestly explored if there was someone better suited to us out there.

 

Same with his OW; she was controlled by believing his promises of a future together some day. Doubt she was out playing the field to find a man who would have demonstrated actions that matched his words.

 

And in this, we both, BS and OW, have much in common: I will never know all the details of your relationship with my WS; You cannot know all the details of my reconciliation. The triangle works best, when conducted in secrecy, FOR HIM!

 

If it helps people to think he used the OW for sex, so be it. If it helps to think he settled in returning to the BS, so be it.

 

If it helps the OW to believe we never had hot passionate sex, okay. If it helps the BS to think he did not have real feelings for his OW....well, okay.

 

I just don't buy it. It's a limiting belief, IMHO.

[jennie-jennie]

The triangle works best, when conducted in secrecy, FOR HIM!

 

I have thought about this. Why is there not some kind of sisterhood where the two women join forces and make the WS/MM decide? If it was considered correct and appreciated that the OW came to the BS and they together figured out how to solve the issue? Women of the world, join forces! Unrealistic perhaps?

[herenow]

And likewise, I imagine BS's would find it hurtful to believe the MM really love the OW (it wasn't just "affair fog"). It's much easier to think the MM was just using the OW for sex. I think both of these perceptions are usually just denial, and bear little resemblance to reality.

 

I was referring to the situation where the MM stays married. If the MM leaves his wife to be with the OW, I would see that as a true sign that he loves the OW more than he loves his wife. IMO, there would be no denying it.

 

Are you saying that there is little chance the MM stays with his wife because he loves his wife?

[threebyfate]

I will openly admit to not reading any posts, beyond the opening post.

 

Spark, even as an ex-BW, I honestly don't understand why you would stay with someone who betrayed your love and trust, throwing it all back into your face.

 

Having said that, consider human nature. In a situation of an affair, the OW/OM want what's yours, whether it's the WS and/or the life you have. So why do you suppose they're going to be kind or understanding to someone who they perceive as the "winner", which by default, makes them the "loser"? I quote these two definitions since it's a stupid way to view any relationship. Once you start viewing relationships from the perspective of winning and losing, the relationship is toast.