Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[2sure]

I have thought about this. Why is there not some kind of sisterhood where the two women join forces and make the WS/MM decide? If it was considered correct and appreciated that the OW came to the BS and they together figured out how to solve the issue? Women of the world, join forces! Unrealistic perhaps?

 

Expecting a cheating spouse to choose is not unrealistic.

Expecting other people to respect the boundaries of marriage is also not unrealistic.

 

I'll gladly join forces with the women of the world and vow both:

If I am an OW or a BS, I will contact the wife/OW so that she, myself, and WS can all make a decision in the light of day.

 

I also vow to the women of the world that I will not date any man that I know is married. I give my fellow women and myself that respect.

 

Not unrealistic at all. A lot of people live by these rules. Its called human decency. I myself having lacked it at one point in my life - have found that sometimes its an acquired thing.

[dprtman09]

I know that in my situation, the ex-OM made comments which implied he thought I was "settling" - that what he could offer me was so much more. I actually refused to criticise my H to him during the affair in spite his pushing for such behaviour yet he made his own mind up about how much better he was compared to my H. Can't say I agreed with him.

 

My W made it clear to me that she went through the exact same situation with the OM. He drew criticisms indirectly from what he knew of me and what she told him her problems were. He had her convinced, for a while, that he could solve her problems. Eventually, it dawned on her that she had to solve her own problems and that it had to be with me. After all, she figured, what did he have to lose if she left him? What did she have to lose if she left me or I left her? She finally realized that he only mirrored her and told her whatever she wanted to hear. At that point, no trust, no relationship.

 

Even if he did care for my W, he always knew he could walk away scot- free at any time. Fortunately for my W, she saw that, too.

[dprtman09]

 

Expecting a cheating spouse to choose is not unrealistic.

Expecting other people to respect the boundaries of marriage is also not unrealistic.

 

I'll gladly join forces with the women of the world and vow both:

If I am an OW or a BS, I will contact the wife/OW so that she, myself, and WS can all make a decision in the light of day.

 

I also vow to the women of the world that I will not date any man that I know is married. I give my fellow women and myself that respect.

 

Not unrealistic at all. A lot of people live by these rules. Its called human decency. I myself having lacked it at one point in my life - have found that sometimes its an acquired thing.

 

You should be 2sure! I vow the same thing to the men of the world (with gender revisions). Some of the posters on my thread seem to think I am crazy, but the method you describe here worked for me. My only problem was that I became a bit too obsessed with the OM. My thread here has got me past that.

[silktricks]

I think in part OW are tempted to view staying with the BS as settling because it's easier than splitting. The financial and emotional upheaval, social consequences, etc of divorcing for an AP are usually less attractive than staying with the status quo, even if not completely fulfilling.

However, this is an assumption, too - no? It is assumed that staying is easier than splitting. I personally disagree, having done both. Divorcing my first husband was a walk in the park compared to rebuilding our marriage. My husband has said the same. Divorce is often MUCH easier than actually working out problems - especially once those problems have been compounded by infidelity. You are also assuming that staying is "not completely fulfilling" which is also not true, at least for us.

 

Now, if an MM chooses to leave and is willing to go through all of that, it's harder for the BS to write off the OW and her realtionship with the MM as inconsequential. Leaving a M for an OW is insult to injury for the BS and shakes the sense of self-worth. I can't imagine many BS's would resist the temptation to think that the MM was stepping-down, too starry-eyed to see what a real b*tch the OW is, just waiting for the moment the WS realizes their "mistake" and comes running back.

 

Honestly, the OW looking at the WS staying the M as "settling" is no different than a BS looking at leaving the M for a OW as a "huge mistake".

The affair itself is pretty shaking in the area of self-worth, but I agree (in part) with what you're saying here. At least I agree that the relationship with the former OW - probably future wife - is obviously not inconsequential.

 

I disagree, though, that BS would generally believe the MM was stepping down, or spend too much time waiting for the guy to come running back. But that's me, and possibly I am in the minority. Had my husband actually left and lived with the OW, he would not have been permitted to come back. He would have made his choice, and that would have been it for me.

[dprtman09]

I find it amazing that so many OM/OW do not understand that when a BS attempts to reconcile with a WS, it must be because we:

 

a) need the security and status quo

 

b) pay check

 

c) provider and parent for the children

 

d) don't want to be alone

 

e) turn a blind eye to the affair, thereby proving we REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT LOVE AND PASSION AND OUR SPOUSE

 

Look, in his confusion, I now know the many lies he told her too. Not intentionally. At the time of his affair I know he really cared for her; thought of leaving me to be with her; and has remorse NOW for the way he lead two women on.

 

But I can also assert that for me personally, nothing has been harder or more painful than trying to reconcile our relationship after this devastating betrayal, and the continued contact between the two of them for a few months after DDAY, and the crying and begging at both of our kitchen tables, hers and mine during those months.

 

So WE ALL KNOW, he had to minimize the marriage to enter the affair, and then he had to minimize the affair to re-enter the marriage.

 

I get it! By why, years and months later, do so many APs think their former MM or MW SETTLED FOR THEIR SPOUSE?????

 

And what makes them think the spouse settled for their MW/MM????

 

We WERE/OR STILL are in love with the same person; with all their faults, confusion, deceptions and subsequent heartaches.

 

Is it just easier for the OW/OM to continue to think so less of the spouse, or that the MM/MW settled to return home to his obligations?

 

Or do they continue to believe, like the holy grail, the picture painted of the marriage during the affair?

 

That is so limiting, IMO.

 

I did not/will not believe all the minimizing he HAS tried to do of the affair. I've known him a long time and know instintively when he tries to do this to protect his own azz from my wrath.

 

Don't they realize the same was probably done to them? That the marriage was minimized to them?

 

Sheesh. I don't get it.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Based on the fact that you posted on my thread, I will respect that with a reply here. Since you've been at my thread, you have, no doubt seen that I have been bashed, praised, and called sane and insane in so many words. However, your take on this matter sums up a lot.

 

I believe that we are all being pushed to be too sensitive to others. Better said, too inclined to build our image by what others say or think. In the long run, a balanced individual maintains a balance between four factors:

 

What they know about themselves that others know

 

What they know about themselves that others don't know

 

What others know about them that they don't know

 

What they and others don't know about them

 

Get too wrapped up in any one of those categories and you're in trouble.

 

The problem with being a BS is that there are rapid and extreme swings between all four factors and it's difficult to maintain one's identity when part of it (th M) is in danger.

 

Because of that, The BS is prone to any external stimulus that pops up in an attempt to find some kind of anchor to grab on to. That's when those who appear to believe in being hyper-sensitive to the needs of the WS rear their ugly heads. In turn, it may cause the BS to question their role in "causing" the A.

 

Fact: In the vast majority of cases, a BS does not cause an A. That's silly! The WS violated the M--PERIOD.

 

The "kitchen table" stuff is exactly what happened in our home. It was terrible and exhausting for both of us.

 

She did eventually regret stringing us BOTH along. This, due to the fact that one of her friends who was a BS told her to s**t or get off the pot and stop destroying herself by destroying our M.

 

As far as my W's minimizing of the A, I agree with you completely. Every time she has tried, I've merely stated that I don't expect her to forget that she had feelings for the OM, JUST DON'T EVER DO ANYTHING WITH THEM AGAIN! She immediately stops minimizing. She knows that I know that she shared intimate moments with him at my expense and it is up to her to regain my trust by learning from her mistake.

 

BS's of the world, UNITE! We are the wrongees, not the wrongers.

 

I was not settled for, she just had to realize that she had what she needed already and did not have to look for it elsewhere. It wasn't up to me to make that decision, it was up to me to make sure that I delivered what I already promised to deliver when I married her. Lead by example.

 

Too often, priorities shift quickly for the wrong reasons. The real priorities are hard to dig out of the rubble.

[Snowflower]

 

Now, if an MM chooses to leave and is willing to go through all of that, it's harder for the BS to write off the OW and her realtionship with the MM as inconsequential. Leaving a M for an OW is insult to injury for the BS and shakes the sense of self-worth. I can't imagine many BS's would resist the temptation to think that the MM was stepping-down, too starry-eyed to see what a real b*tch the OW is, just waiting for the moment the WS realizes their "mistake" and comes running back.

 

 

I agree...it would be more difficult for most BS to then dismiss the EMA relationship IF the MM leaves to be with the OW.

 

IMO, I'm not sure the WS leaving would have been more of an insult to injury to the BS because the real insult likely was the affair in the first place.

 

As for waiting for the WS to 'come running back', as silk mentions above, I agree that many BW wouldn't wait around at that point. I know I wouldn't have...if my H had left for the OW.

 

As for the 'kicking out' part done by BS after d-day, it DOES happen. My H did move out (not to be with the OW-too far away) but mostly by mutual agreement between the two of us. I felt a sense of relief after he was gone...he had taken all his 'drama' with him and I had time to think.

 

We reconciled after a short time but if he had moved away to be with his OW-no way would I have taken him back.

[dprtman09]

Combine those two and you got a passionate, exciting long-term relationship with great intimacy. That's what I have with my MM. :love:

 

Who in the world do you think you are? You have nothing to lose here, the MM does and so does his W. Of course, you have no obligation to her or his marriage. After all, you promised nothing to them and can only promise whatever you choose to the MM.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. That's what's wrong with the world--relative morality. If it feels good, do it.

 

Unfortunately for you, what goes around comes around.

 

Everything is really based on "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you".

[jennie-jennie]

 

Expecting a cheating spouse to choose is not unrealistic.

Expecting other people to respect the boundaries of marriage is also not unrealistic.

 

I'll gladly join forces with the women of the world and vow both:

If I am an OW or a BS, I will contact the wife/OW so that she, myself, and WS can all make a decision in the light of day.

 

I also vow to the women of the world that I will not date any man that I know is married. I give my fellow women and myself that respect.

 

Not unrealistic at all. A lot of people live by these rules. Its called human decency. I myself having lacked it at one point in my life - have found that sometimes its an acquired thing.

 

You just proved why it is not possible.

[jennie-jennie]

Who in the world do you think you are? You have nothing to lose here, the MM does and so does his W. Of course, you have no obligation to her or his marriage. After all, you promised nothing to them and can only promise whatever you choose to the MM.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. That's what's wrong with the world--relative morality. If it feels good, do it.

 

I am a woman in love with a man - the most natural thing on earth.

[NoIDidn't]

Who in the world do you think you are? You have nothing to lose here, the MM does and so does his W. Of course, you have no obligation to her or his marriage. After all, you promised nothing to them and can only promise whatever you choose to the MM.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. That's what's wrong with the world--relative morality. If it feels good, do it.

 

Unfortunately for you, what goes around comes around.

 

Everything is really based on "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you".

 

ITA. In most cases the OW loses nothing other than some strong, intense feelings. But the married partners lose their trust, their stability. Should they get divorced, they lose out financially. Their children are affected. Their extended family is left trying to re-work what were once family ties and easy access relationships.

 

What does the OW really lose in these messes?

[jennie-jennie]

ITA. In most cases the OW loses nothing other than some strong, intense feelings. But the married partners lose their trust, their stability. Should they get divorced, they lose out financially. Their children are affected. Their extended family is left trying to re-work what were once family ties and easy access relationships.

 

What does the OW really lose in these messes?

 

I was in a longterm relationship with the father of my children when MM contacted me. I chose to have only one relationship in my life and therefore ended my prior relationship. This has of course affected both me, my exSO and our children. It has not been without cost for all of us.

[crazycatlady]

The OW/OM have more to lose then just hurt feelings you know. They might possibly be wasting their time, some of them JJ included (possibly) years on the hope that the circumstances that keeps the MM/MW in the marriage will eventually change so they can be the priority in their lover's life. They risk scorn, they risk a possible pregnancy to be faced alone, they have nothing on their side, but the possibility that the married person is not lying to them. They risk their selfworth in their eyes, their lover's eyes (though I think that's one most don't like to consider). Its a very risky position to be in.

 

While JJ is jabbing at the BSes here, she is part of the infidelity triangle, just as the BS is part of the OW/OM forum because there can't be an O without there being the first one.

 

However a BS could look to her as an example. Here's someone who doesn't have a settled organized life with the MM/MW willing to take the risk for love. She's been hurt, she's been tossed under the bus, she's been lied to, "cheated" on from her point of view (maybe not her personally feels this way, just that hwen the MM sleeps with his wife for the OW that could be a betrayal), is left alone on holidays, even more so then the Spouse, and yet for love, she stays. She forgives, she accepts.

 

Now whether that is a weakness or not can be argued. But love is powerful. And that's important to keep in mind from any side of the story.

 

Sorry I think its one of my worse or better (depending on which side you are on lol) habits, I always have to look and see things from the unpopular side of any given moment. Balance is key.

 

CCL

[NoIDidn't]

The OW/OM have more to lose then just hurt feelings you know. They might possibly be wasting their time, some of them JJ included (possibly) years on the hope that the circumstances that keeps the MM/MW in the marriage will eventually change so they can be the priority in their lover's life. They risk scorn, they risk a possible pregnancy to be faced alone, they have nothing on their side, but the possibility that the married person is not lying to them. They risk their selfworth in their eyes, their lover's eyes (though I think that's one most don't like to consider). Its a very risky position to be in.

 

While JJ is jabbing at the BSes here, she is part of the infidelity triangle, just as the BS is part of the OW/OM forum because there can't be an O without there being the first one.

 

However a BS could look to her as an example. Here's someone who doesn't have a settled organized life with the MM/MW willing to take the risk for love. She's been hurt, she's been tossed under the bus, she's been lied to, "cheated" on from her point of view (maybe not her personally feels this way, just that hwen the MM sleeps with his wife for the OW that could be a betrayal), is left alone on holidays, even more so then the Spouse, and yet for love, she stays. She forgives, she accepts.

 

Now whether that is a weakness or not can be argued. But love is powerful. And that's important to keep in mind from any side of the story.

 

Sorry I think its one of my worse or better (depending on which side you are on lol) habits, I always have to look and see things from the unpopular side of any given moment. Balance is key.

 

CCL

 

While I might agree that the OW loses out on more than just feelings in a long term A, its of her own making.

 

Tell me how the MM's family signed up for it.

 

This is the balance for me. The OW chooses it. The MM's family and spouse does not. If the OW loses out in a long term A, whose fault is that but her own? Its a risky position of their own choosing.

[greengoddess]

I was in a longterm relationship with the father of my children when MM contacted me. I chose to have only one relationship in my life and therefore ended my prior relationship. This has of course affected both me, my exSO and our children. It has not been without cost for all of us.

 

Yes and that's a CHOICE you made with full knowledge that he is MARRIED. Choice full disclosure. Key words here.

[jennie-jennie]

Yes and that's a CHOICE you made with full knowledge that he is MARRIED. Choice full disclosure. Key words here.

 

But also with the naive belief that a man who loves another woman divorces his wife. Remember serial monogamy is the general practice in my country.

[greengoddess]

But also with the naive belief that a man who loves another woman divorces his wife. Remember serial monogamy is the general practice in my country.

 

He was married. You knew that.

 

sO AFTER All this time what does that tell you? Do you not think it is time to move on? Why should he divorce when you happily accept your place in his life as the OW?

 

Leave him. If he loves you he will leave her. Stop wasting your life waiting.

[jennie-jennie]

He was married. You knew that.

 

sO AFTER All this time what does that tell you? Do you not think it is time to move on? Why should he divorce when you happily accept your place in his life as the OW?

 

Leave him. If he loves you he will leave her. Stop wasting your life waiting.

 

To me marriage is not a place you stay when you love someone else. You can not vow love, and should therefore not stay when your object of love has changed. That was and is my moral.

 

I stay by my man in thick and thin. There is obviously something that keeps him in both the marriage and the extramarital relationship. So be it.

 

And I am not wasting my life waiting. I am living my life in a relationship with a wonderful man. I know he loves me. His love for me does not depend on what he does with his marriage. That is simplifying reality.

 

Even if I want more, I can enjoy what I have today and be happy I have it. I am blessed to have such a wonderful man in my life.

[Brokenlady]

I was referring to the situation where the MM stays married. If the MM leaves his wife to be with the OW, I would see that as a true sign that he loves the OW more than he loves his wife. IMO, there would be no denying it.

 

Are you saying that there is little chance the MM stays with his wife because he loves his wife?

 

I understood what you meant. I think it's that BS's who stay with the WS tend to assume that the OW didn't mean very much to the WS, which may not be true in all cases. Much like how OW assume the W doesn't mean very much to the MM, also not true across the board.

 

I don't like the concept of loving one woman "more" than another - I think it's more accurate to say it's "different". I still "love" my xH, but it's not the same as love I had for xDM. For xH, it was love of friends and partners, not romantic, passionate, deep yearning love. Obviously I can't say for sure, but I think it's hard to feel that way about two people at the same time. But neither woman is truly inconsequential in a MM's life. The W has the marital status, motherhood and history, whereas the MM risks his tidy life to have an A with the OW. It doesn't make sense to me for either woman to write off the other as inconsequential.

 

No, not saying that at all. Sometimes I think MM stay for reasons other than undyling love for the W. Sometimes it's a refusal to share custody of kids, sometimes it's financial, sometimes it's not wanting to deal with the emaotional and family and societal fall out, etc. These MM have already established themselves as selfish in cheating, so I think it's impractical to assume they always stay for unselfish reasons like love. My xDM had a hard time leaving his xW, but it wasn't because he was "in love" with his xW. He "loves" her, but not in a passionate romantic way. Had he stayed and not divorced, which he considered, it would not have been for love of his xW. It would have been for all the reasons listed above.

[greengoddess]

To me marriage is not a place you stay when you love someone else. You can not vow love, and should therefore not stay when your object of love has changed. That was and is my moral.

 

I stay by my man in thick and thin. There is obviously something that keeps him in both the marriage and the extramarital relationship. So be it.

 

And I am not wasting my life waiting. I am living my life in a relationship with a wonderful man. I know he loves me. His love for me does not depend on what he does with his marriage. That is simplifying reality.

 

Even if I want more, I can enjoy what I have today and be happy I have it. I am blessed to have such a wonderful man in my life.

 

I really feel bad for you that that is all the value you put on yourself. That you feel blessed to have half a man. That you are only worth part of his time. I think you are just not strong enough to leave him so accept so be it this is all I get a man who goes home to his wife and family. Have you seen an IC? You deserve more and need to know that and so does his wife. Make him make a choice? Why should he have 2 women while you each get half a man?

[jennie-jennie]

He was married. You knew that.

 

sO AFTER All this time what does that tell you? Do you not think it is time to move on? Why should he divorce when you happily accept your place in his life as the OW?

 

Leave him. If he loves you he will leave her. Stop wasting your life waiting.

 

Greengoddess, I also want to add that my MM was an old sweetheart of mine. We were involuntarily parted as teenagers due to outer circumstances. When we got in contact again decades later, it was as if the love for each other was still there, just waiting for us. In that sense we had no choice, we were already in love.

 

I believe this is something that is going to happen more and more now with the availability through internet. The power of an old love is not to be underestimated. Many marriages will fall apart due to this. It is like a time bomb ticking from the past.

[Brokenlady]

However, this is an assumption, too - no? It is assumed that staying is easier than splitting. I personally disagree, having done both. Divorcing my first husband was a walk in the park compared to rebuilding our marriage. My husband has said the same. Divorce is often MUCH easier than actually working out problems - especially once those problems have been compounded by infidelity. You are also assuming that staying is "not completely fulfilling" which is also not true, at least for us.

 

Sure it's an assumption. I was just trying to explain why OW may tend to think this way. And also it's not always about what is ACTUALLY easier-- what tends to matter most is what the MM PERCEIVES as easier. And most MM perceive the hard way as the easy way. (Consider that it's "easier" and less complicated to leave a M and then go date, or even to got to MC and fix the marriage problems, yet MM consistently choose to muck things up royal by lying and snaeking and having an A instead. They perceive that as easier, even though it almost never is when it all hits the fan.)

 

I disagree, though, that BS would generally believe the MM was stepping down, or spend too much time waiting for the guy to come running back. But that's me, and possibly I am in the minority. Had my husband actually left and lived with the OW, he would not have been permitted to come back. He would have made his choice, and that would have been it for me.

 

I'm not saying this is true across the board, but it was for xDM's xW.

[jennie-jennie]

I really feel bad for you that that is all the value you put on yourself. That you feel blessed to have half a man. That you are only worth part of his time. I think you are just not strong enough to leave him so accept so be it this is all I get a man who goes home to his wife and family. Have you seen an IC? You deserve more and need to know that and so does his wife. Make him make a choice? Why should he have 2 women while you each get half a man?

 

That sort of empathy is not for me. It is perceived from your way of looking at the world. It is obvious to me from your postings that our world views differ greatly. You should not feel bad for someone who is happy where she is. That is presumptuous and arrogant in my opinon. No offense intended.

 

Our relationship is a continuous topic of discussion for MM and me. It is yet to see what will happen in the future.

[jennie-jennie]

I am confused now. The topic of this thread is "Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?" How did we get from there to my relationship? End of threadjack, please.

[reboot]

Probably because you keep bringing up your relationship, off topic or not.

[jennie-jennie]

Sure it's an assumption. I was just trying to explain why OW may tend to think this way. And also it's not always about what is ACTUALLY easier-- what tends to matter most is what the MM PERCEIVES as easier. And most MM perceive the hard way as the easy way. (Consider that it's "easier" and less complicated to leave a M and then go date, or even to got to MC and fix the marriage problems, yet MM consistently choose to muck things up royal by lying and snaeking and having an A instead. They perceive that as easier, even though it almost never is when it all hits the fan.)

 

A lot of MM are also acting under the presumption that their affair will not be discovered. So because of that it is perceived to be easier to stay in the marriage. Staying does not necessarily include working out the problems of the marriage.

Edited January 14, 2010 by jennie-jennie