Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[White Flower]

Was this intended to be as insulting as it appears?

 

Once again, we're all the same just like the Stepford Wives.

[Myowntwofeet]

I post here from time to time and I can tell you that not only did I tell my WS to figure out his shi*. I packed up my things and moved away not only to give him all the space he needed to get his head straight, but also to start for myself a new life without him. I told him, "If you want to be with OW go right ahead"

 

If he was in love with another woman then I didn't need or want him taking up space in my life.

 

If he felt remorse then I would expect him to feel this. He lied, cheated, and disrespected me. If he has any character at all he would feel remorse over this. But NEVER would I have allowed guilt to keep him somewhere he didn't want to be. In fact, he sooo disappointed me, when he started asking for a reconciliation, I needed time to figure out if I even wanted to give him another chance.

 

We got back together because he followed me to the state where I moved and because he took many other actions that proved he was worth giving another chance to.

 

BW can and do take initiative and power over their own lives rather than waiting for the WH to decide between two women. Maybe you don't know any who do this but I do.....I have some very powerful women in my family and in my circle of friends, they were my example and my encouragement when my H cheated.

 

Again, never did I say ALL BS do this or that. But someone suggest most do, and suggested that is shown on LS.

 

Ok.

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of several posters ( at least 10 of the current), that I will name out of respect, that DID NOT kick WS out. I am sorry that I forgot about you Phoenix, but I have to actually think about how many did....hence why I have the point of view I do.

 

I have a great deal of respect for anyone strong enough to step away and decide what they want - as I said earlier, I only wish it was the norm - rather than the exception.

[Myowntwofeet]

Out on his azz and ow didn't want him either.

 

Sure he didn't see that coming... as they say.... never underestimate women.

[dazzle22]

To answer the OP's question....I have been with a MM for nearly three years and he has been clear that he will not leave his W. I respect that. She does not strike me as a person who could easily fall into another relationship and I don't think MM wants to destroy her.

 

Anyway, about a year ago she asked my MM "Are you having an affair?" Of course he said "No". Now we all know that when you ask a question like that, you already know the answer deep down inside. Did this prompt her to lose some of the 150 lbs she has gained during the marriage or put some makeup on? Did it prompt her to put on a nice outfit instead of the same old tired sweats she always wears? No,it didn't. This is why I have no sympathy for her. Here she has a guy who is smart, handsome, has a great job and tons of ambition, who stays with her out of pity and she knows deep down that he is cheating, and she obviously does not care. If she does not care, why should I?

 

See, this post is an example of EXACTLY my point. The OW has no sympathy for the wife because she actually TALKED to her husband and then BELIEVED him. Gee, what horrible things for a wife to do. Bring up a concern and then believe her husband. What WAS she thinking??

 

Then she denegrates the wife saying she is fat, doesn't wear makeup, so she doesn't care, (the devaluing of the person you are harming) and deserves what she gets. Well, guess what? No where in marriage vows does it have an "out clause" if your spouse gets fat, or ill, or stops wearing makeup. If you don't like it as a husband, point it out, and then give your wife feedback that if she doesn't take care of herself better, it might tempt him to look elsewhere. It is not a "licence to cheat"!! That is like saying, "well, you left your car out in the driveway with the door unlocked and the keys in it, so you were asking for me to take it." Was that foolish? YES! Was it, however, licence for you to break a code of decency and steal it? NO! If a man like this is unhappy, he needs to man up and leave his wife first!!

[silktricks]

I think that brings up a very good point. So many BS believe the OP seduced their WS away. It just isn't so. MM was heavily pursuant of me and it took me a year and a half to cave.

 

WF, you are here exactly what so many have been called out for doing... you are extending YOUR experiences to everyone. In your case the MM pursued. This is most assuredly not true in all cases. Many times the OP is the pursuer. That still doesn't make it OK for the MP to have an affair, of course.

[crazycatlady]

Some of us who didn't kick out the spouse (or in my case leave) do it not out of weakness but out of a concious decision after weighing things and deciding what we can and can not handle. In that way, I relate to the OW because I made the choice they often make. I know H loves me. I know he cares or loves the OW, but if I thought he would 1- be happier with her I would leave, 2- didn't want us both, I would leave, 3- wasn't confused and was only staying out of pity, I would leave.

 

I would leave and leave my children. He's better capable of supporting them - in fact no one's life would change but for my own and it would be nice to only worry about myself for a change. And I sometimes have fantasies about that, to finally just be able to worry just about myself. I love my kids as much as I love H but why should be get to be able to enjoy being footloose and fancy free (part of what attracts him to her)? I also do think that in many ways he is a better parent then I am so it wouldn't be strictly revenge leaving the kids with him, just a nice bonus. But I wasn't able to compeat with the OW because she didn't first had to think of the kids, so one or two get aways that she could join him on (which he would rather have had me ) . And in my more evil moments, I laugh at the thought of the tables being reversed. But I'm mostly over those thoughts Mostly.

 

CCL

[White Flower]

WF, you are here exactly what so many have been called out for doing... you are extending YOUR experiences to everyone. In your case the MM pursued. This is most assuredly not true in all cases. Many times the OP is the pursuer. That still doesn't make it OK for the MP to have an affair, of course.

I'm sure we can agree on this. Whatever the reason, he still cheated. But for some strange reason it is easier, most often, for the BS to believe the OP was the pursuer and his/her spouse was the victim of circumstance. This takes the blame off the WS and puts it solely on the s*** seducer of an OP.

 

If the BW can convince her H that the OW was a s***, at least in her mind, she can forgive him and move forward in the M. Most often he goes right back to banging the OW and the W thinks she's done her job of disparaging the OW in her H's head. He probably pretends to agree with his W while in the same day is apologizing profusely to his lover that his W has said these malicious things about her.

[anne1707]

If the BW can convince her H that the OW was a s***, at least in her mind, she can forgive him and move forward in the M. Most often he goes right back to banging the OW and the W thinks she's done her job of disparaging the OW in her H's head. He probably pretends to agree with his W while in the same day is apologizing profusely to his lover that his W has said these malicious things about her.

 

 

Makes him sound so attractive and desirable - it's a wonder anybody woudl want him, let alone two women

[Spark1111]

Again, never did I say ALL BS do this or that. But someone suggest most do, and suggested that is shown on LS.

 

Ok.

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of several posters ( at least 10 of the current), that I will name out of respect, that DID NOT kick WS out. I am sorry that I forgot about you Phoenix, but I have to actually think about how many did....hence why I have the point of view I do.

 

I have a great deal of respect for anyone strong enough to step away and decide what they want - as I said earlier, I only wish it was the norm - rather than the exception.

 

Hmmmm I do not know how many kick his azz to the curb, but I do know that I have read 95% percent of women will take back a cheating spouse ONCE for whatever reason; welfare of the children would be my guess as the number one reason. Let's not discount the overwhelming power of maternal instinct and needing those babies provided and protected until they reach maturity.

 

Men are somewhat less likely to reconcile, as they are often unable to get the sexual imagery of their WW's affair out of there head.

 

That being said, I wonder why so many enbark on an affair knowing it has less than a five percent chance of leading to long-term relationship.

 

Does every OW/OM believe their's will be the relationship to beat these odds?

[Spark1111]

Well I do not believe that a satisfied person would cheat...if that is your question.

 

I think this may be another myth.

 

I think when married, conflict avoiders, poor communicators, and selfish people cheat. Or lonely, or bored, because 95% do try to go home initially.

 

I think only 1 out of 100 is so unhappily married that they actually have an exit affair; a relationship that shows

the MM/MW women how much better a relationship CAN be that they actually leave the spouse to start anew.

 

I have been married a very long time, and to say I was satisfied everday would be ludicrous.

 

If you are that unhappy, separate, see if there is a marriage worth saving, go to counseling, while you explore feelings of attraction to another.

 

It is not the developing of feelings for another. That is human nature and can happen to anyone at any time. No one is immune from that experience, even in a happy, satisfied marriage.

 

It is the deception of the affair that is sooooo cowardly, so sitting-on-the fence forever, that reeks of disrespect not only to your spouse, but also to your AP, IMHO.

[jennie-jennie]

Does every OW/OM believe their's will be the relationship to beat these odds?

 

That you could be so deeply in love with another person and yet stay married was beyond my comprehension. Once I realized that, I was myself too deeply in love to leave.

 

As I have said before I have been the BS twice during long term relationships earlier in life. I can't remember ever considering leaving either of my SOs because of their serial infidelities. My love for them had not decreased, my passion for them was still as high, they were my objects of desire.

 

During my second long term relationship my SO ended our relationship twice to go with the OW, but returned later, the first time after half a year I believe, the second time after a month. He recommitted to our relationship after that, and we got two more kids.

 

So I stayed because I loved and desired these men. It was as simple as that.

[Spark1111]

I'm sure we can agree on this. Whatever the reason, he still cheated. But for some strange reason it is easier, most often, for the BS to believe the OP was the pursuer and his/her spouse was the victim of circumstance. This takes the blame off the WS and puts it solely on the s*** seducer of an OP.

 

If the BW can convince her H that the OW was a s***, at least in her mind, she can forgive him and move forward in the M. Most often he goes right back to banging the OW and the W thinks she's done her job of disparaging the OW in her H's head. He probably pretends to agree with his W while in the same day is apologizing profusely to his lover that his W has said these malicious things about her.

 

So true, but not me WF, not by a long shot! I didn't buy it for a single minute.

 

This is a commom MM affair script: He has to denigrate and minimize the marriage in order to enter the affair, and to have the OW become a willing participant.

 

Then, he has to minimize and denigrate the affair to try and re-enter the marriage, so if that means disparaging the OW to his wife, oh yeah he'll do that too.

 

Two women get used and played by a confused unhappy man.

 

Not this woman.

[Spark1111]

That you could be so deeply in love with another person and yet stay married was beyond my comprehension. Once I realized that, I was myself too deeply in love to leave.

 

As I have said before I have been the BS twice during long term relationships earlier in life. I can't remember ever considering leaving either of my SOs because of their serial infidelities. My love for them had not decreased, my passion for them was still as high, they were my objects of desire.

 

During my second long term relationship my SO ended our relationship twice to go with the OW, but returned later, the first time after half a year I believe, the second time after a month. He recommitted to our relationship after that, and we got two more kids.

 

So I stayed because I loved and desired these men. It was as simple as that.

 

This is very honest Jennie. So at any time as a BS, did you feel you "Settled"? Or that your WS settled in their return to you?

[jennie-jennie]

I think this may be another myth.

 

I think when married, conflict avoiders, poor communicators, and selfish people cheat. Or lonely, or bored, because 95% do try to go home initially.

 

I think only 1 out of 100 is so unhappily married that they actually have an exit affair; a relationship that shows

the MM/MW women how much better a relationship CAN be that they actually leave the spouse to start anew.

 

That is not an exit affair. An exit affair is when you have already decided to leave the marriage and then engage in an affair as a means to get out of it.

 

I would say it is the Split Self affair where the WS discovers "a relationship that shows" "how much better a relationship CAN be", since this is an affair with great emotional involvement. That is certainly what has happened in our case. My MM believed he was "happily married" until he saw the kind of relationship he and I were able to have. Now he wants nothing less.

[Spark1111]

But be honest(pardon the irony)...why would you feel the need to ask your spouse "Are you cheating?" if you felt that nothing was amiss in your marriage?

 

Well of course SOMETHING is amiss in the marriage. She may sense an emotional distancing, a shut down of communications, a lack of affection or consideration. It is not unusual to experience any one of these in a long term relationship.

 

She may be thinking, 'Is it job stress? Family issues? Mid-life crisis? Another woman? Let me ask him the most painful question..."Are you cheating?"

 

And the person she SHOULD trust more than anyone else in the world, says "Oh no, not me."

 

And she believes him because she wants to, or needs to, and life goes on for her, but in a somewhat unstable environment, because she TRUSTS him to tell her the truth!

 

So she breathes a sigh of relief, goes forward and thinks okay, it is some other issue and when he sorts it out we will talk about it, but we are still okay.

 

This is just my take on the scenario.

[jennie-jennie]

This is very honest Jennie. So at any time as a BS, did you feel you "Settled"? Or that your WS settled in their return to you?

 

I did kind of answer that in a post above, but I will give it another go.

 

With my first SO I would say that none of us settled. We really loved each other. It was problematic that he had this tendency of serial infidelity, to say the least, and I wanted our relationship to improve. I did leave him further down on the road for another man, but when that did not work out, he asked me to come back and we had a wonderful year together, until he became uncureably ill.

 

With my second SO we both kind of settled for the relationship as such, not so much for the infidelities, but from the start. I was not all he wanted, and what he put into the relationship was not all I wanted.

 

But I am very loyal. Once I love a man I stay. That is why, when I understood my MM was not leaving his marriage, I knew I was in it for the long run.

 

I read the following in a book called Coming Apart by DR Kingma. It startled me when I read it, because I was thinking of my prior relationships.

 

"The marriage that is constantly punctuated by affairs is not a marriage or an intimate relationship, it is a circumstantial arrangement and will survive only as long as both partners are content to have a marriage of convenience. When either partner desires to change the arrangement into a truly intimate emotional relationship, chances are it won't work because the emotional territory has already been violated by so many imposters."

 

I always felt that the bond my SOs had for me was so strong that they could not leave me, that they always came back and stayed with me after their infidelities. Now I don't know what to think.

[OWoman]

I think this may be another myth.

 

I think when married, conflict avoiders, poor communicators, and selfish people cheat. Or lonely, or bored, because 95% do try to go home initially.

 

I think "why" people "cheat" depends on a great many variables, and it's not necessarily true that ONLY people whose Ms suck have As. Perhaps only people whose Ms suck actively go off and pursue As, but many people who "land up" in As get there by other routes (the friendship that morphs into an EA, the "happily married" WS who gets seduced in a moment of weakness by a persistent AP, the conflict avoider who gets manipulated into a position where s/he is accused of having "led the [intendant] AP on" who feels "obliged" to consummate the A under duress of expectation / fear of consequences, "pity sex", etc).

 

That is not an exit affair. An exit affair is when you have already decided to leave the marriage and then engage in an affair as a means to get out of it.

 

I would say it is the Split Self affair where the WS discovers "a relationship that shows" "how much better a relationship CAN be", since this is an affair with great emotional involvement.

 

That sounds more congruent with my reading of some of the MMs I've had As with. They didn't set out to have an A. They were quite happily M, as far as they could tell - until the A showed that not to be the case once they saw how a R COULD be. At which point they started to realised that their M wasn't as great as they'd thought, with varying results.

 

That being said, I wonder why so many enbark on an affair knowing it has less than a five percent chance of leading to long-term relationship.

 

Does every OW/OM believe their's will be the relationship to beat these odds?

 

Not all OWs want a LTR. Some just want an A.

 

But also, given the paucity of research in this area, and the shocking quality of what research there is, there is immense skepticism about any statistics quoted. And, of course, people are by nature optimistic, so in the absence of any real research evidence, they believe that the "real" stats would be more favourable than the dicey ones that are quoted.

 

Plus, almost EVERY OW knows at least one A that turned out "well" in that the OW and the MM landed up together - and evidence which is lived (however anecdotal that makes it) is far more powerful that evidence which is read - so those who want that kind of outcome, imagine, "if it could work for her, it could work for me".

 

If people weren't naturally such optimists, no one would ever date (since by far the vast majority of dates do not ultimately lead to anything long term) or have kids or vote. Society as we know it relies on our eternal optimism

[bentnotbroken]

I'm sure we can agree on this. Whatever the reason, he still cheated. But for some strange reason it is easier, most often, for the BS to believe the OP was the pursuer and his/her spouse was the victim of circumstance. This takes the blame off the WS and puts it solely on the s*** seducer of an OP.

 

If the BW can convince her H that the OW was a s***, at least in her mind, she can forgive him and move forward in the M. Most often he goes right back to banging the OW and the W thinks she's done her job of disparaging the OW in her H's head. He probably pretends to agree with his W while in the same day is apologizing profusely to his lover that his W has said these malicious things about her.

 

 

Mr. Messy did the pursuing. He told me and she told me. I have no doubts who the wolf was in this situation. I do believe he would have continued "banging"(love the word:D)her or someone else, hence my choice to move on.

[Myowntwofeet]

Hmmmm I do not know how many kick his azz to the curb, but I do know that I have read 95% percent of women will take back a cheating spouse ONCE for whatever reason; welfare of the children would be my guess as the number one reason. Let's not discount the overwhelming power of maternal instinct and needing those babies provided and protected until they reach maturity.

 

Men are somewhat less likely to reconcile, as they are often unable to get the sexual imagery of their WW's affair out of there head.

 

That being said, I wonder why so many enbark on an affair knowing it has less than a five percent chance of leading to long-term relationship.

 

Does every OW/OM believe their's will be the relationship to beat these odds?

 

That's odd... I know many, and again many here as well that are still with a WS after multiple findings. I do agree with men having a much less successful time than woman though, certainly truth in that and we do see that here.

 

And while I was presenting a viewpoint... you had to throw out that all mighty " stat". That stat is about as real as Joan River's face. That STAT everyone refers to was based on a survey conducted in a public airport... come on silk.... your better than that.

 

The other "stat's" are just as skewed but many can work in the favor of the OW/OM. Less than 30 % of couples reconcile for more than 2 years..... that can go to as low as 5% depending on factors, as it apparently depleats with multiple affairs, multiple years and the 'split affair' which seems to hold some weight in long term affairs has a lower recovery rate as well. See, anyone can skew the stats to be in their favor, because the truth is getting true stats when it comes to this, is almost impossible. Couples will not say an A lead to the divorce and there isn't many who will vocally say they were once the OW/OM, the MP eventually divorced and they did end up together.

 

Even on a highly recommended toughlove board, the stats for recovery are only 30%. Again, to just throw out one stat - and say " why did you settle" is tunnel vision.

 

I am not suggesting everyone, in fact I am suggesting the exact opposite and that is that so many here assume their's is the "norm". Like I said earlier I had to THINK of how many women actually stood up and said "Get out - I know you say you want the marriage, but I need to decide what I want". To the point where I missed some posters.

 

On the flip of that, I can easily - without any real thought think of many that have stayed - actually been afraid to separate or make the S leave and yet still scream that " I said he could have her".

 

Our human physic's are not designed like that. Guilt has a huge impact on the instinctive decision by the WS after a DDay and any BS or OW who doesn't understand that is not looking clearly.

 

I am not arguing that we ( OW/OM) shouldn't have played with fire to begin with, that our success rates are low... but I will argue this crap that floats around here in the name of "stats" is just - crap.

 

And again while asking silly questions like "why do they do it" --- many can ask BS the same question. A very high percentage ( well over 50%) of those that cheat, do and will cheat again. So why do so many stay knowing the odds are now against them?

 

I am really just trying to show that any stat or thought process can be turned against you....

 

When you talk about understanding.... the only way to really do that imo - is to throw out the inaccurate, silly stats on both sides out the window and understand that emotions/love/relationships are far more than that, from any perspective.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Myowntwofeet

[Myowntwofeet]

I did kind of answer that in a post above, but I will give it another go.

 

With my first SO I would say that none of us settled. We really loved each other. It was problematic that he had this tendency of serial infidelity, to say the least, and I wanted our relationship to improve. I did leave him further down on the road for another man, but when that did not work out, he asked me to come back and we had a wonderful year together, until he became uncureably ill.

 

With my second SO we both kind of settled for the relationship as such, not so much for the infidelities, but from the start. I was not all he wanted, and what he put into the relationship was not all I wanted.

 

But I am very loyal. Once I love a man I stay. That is why, when I understood my MM was not leaving his marriage, I knew I was in it for the long run.

 

I read the following in a book called Coming Apart by DR Kingma. It startled me when I read it, because I was thinking of my prior relationships.

 

"The marriage that is constantly punctuated by affairs is not a marriage or an intimate relationship, it is a circumstantial arrangement and will survive only as long as both partners are content to have a marriage of convenience. When either partner desires to change the arrangement into a truly intimate emotional relationship, chances are it won't work because the emotional territory has already been violated by so many imposters."

 

I always felt that the bond my SOs had for me was so strong that they could not leave me, that they always came back and stayed with me after their infidelities. Now I don't know what to think.

 

Jennie, this is a great post!

 

I too am loyal to a fault. I also can honestly admit that all my long-term relationships at some point have wanted to reconcile ( that being as long as 5 years past) and regardless of bad endings, etc.

 

I also have only had three "emotional relationships" and those are the ones I am referring too. When you have that bond, it is incredibly hard to break and even after years.... many don't. The only difference and reason I have not reverted is I really do work to get over. I get emotional, and don't avoid the pain of the relationship ending. I don't compartmentalize ( like so many men do) and I bang my head until it really sinks in.

 

Most men, including my exMM do the opposite. They put it in a pot, put a lid on it and hope for the best. That normally works for a while, and I can only assume when reconciling ( this is my first and last A) that it makes it easier to cope... maybe for the first year while both BS/WS are working hard, trying to rekindle, have fun.... the problem is and I do believe one of the reasons divorce usually happens in the 18-36 months after is that- the pot starts to boil over. And if it is a split affair, the memories start to haunt, one or both. I know my MM is hoping ( the " positive thought", Yes I can) have what we had.... I hope they do, because the opposite - empty shell marriage is a scary idea and I think knowing them and the situation it is a very likely possibility as I don't think either will leave if the waters calm, regardless of the level of self fulfillment.

[jennie-jennie]

I know my MM is hoping ( the " positive thought", Yes I can) have what we had.... I hope they do, because the opposite - empty shell marriage is a scary idea and I think knowing them and the situation it is a very likely possibility as I don't think either will leave if the waters calm, regardless of the level of self fulfillment.

 

That is exactly what my MM is hoping for if he decides to go back to his wife. He says he will not be content unless he and she have the same kind of relationship he and I have. So... you are married for 15 years, you have an extramarital relationship with another woman for 5 years, and then you think you will be able to go back and make your marriage as intimate as the EMR. Why was it not that intimate in the first place? So now when you know how a relationship CAN be, you can turn your marriage into all that?

 

I do understand that the MM has new experiences with him from the EMR into the marriage, but is that enough to make the marriage more intimate than it ever was before?

[NoIDidn't]

And while I was presenting a viewpoint... you had to throw out that all mighty " stat". That stat is about as real as Joan River's face. That STAT everyone refers to was based on a survey conducted in a public airport... come on silk.... your better than that.

 

Actually, you quoted Spark, not silk.

 

The other "stat's" are just as skewed but many can work in the favor of the OW/OM. Less than 30 % of couples reconcile for more than 2 years..... that can go to as low as 5% depending on factors, as it apparently depleats with multiple affairs, multiple years and the 'split affair' which seems to hold some weight in long term affairs has a lower recovery rate as well. See, anyone can skew the stats to be in their favor, because the truth is getting true stats when it comes to this, is almost impossible. Couples will not say an A lead to the divorce and there isn't many who will vocally say they were once the OW/OM, the MP eventually divorced and they did end up together.

 

Even on a highly recommended toughlove board, the stats for recovery are only 30%. Again, to just throw out one stat - and say " why did you settle" is tunnel vision.

 

I am not suggesting everyone, in fact I am suggesting the exact opposite and that is that so many here assume their's is the "norm". Like I said earlier I had to THINK of how many women actually stood up and said "Get out - I know you say you want the marriage, but I need to decide what I want". To the point where I missed some posters.

 

On the flip of that, I can easily - without any real thought think of many that have stayed - actually been afraid to separate or make the S leave and yet still scream that " I said he could have her".

 

Our human physic's are not designed like that. Guilt has a huge impact on the instinctive decision by the WS after a DDay and any BS or OW who doesn't understand that is not looking clearly.

 

I am not arguing that we ( OW/OM) shouldn't have played with fire to begin with, that our success rates are low... but I will argue this crap that floats around here in the name of "stats" is just - crap.

 

And again while asking silly questions like "why do they do it" --- many can ask BS the same question. A very high percentage ( well over 50%) of those that cheat, do and will cheat again. So why do so many stay knowing the odds are now against them?

 

I am really just trying to show that any stat or thought process can be turned against you....

 

When you talk about understanding.... the only way to really do that imo - is to throw out the inaccurate, silly stats on both sides out the window and understand that emotions/love/relationships are far more than that, from any perspective.

 

And you made your point so eloquently. Using the bolded statement, you have also shown how the stats continue to work against the OW/OM. So there really is no point in either "side" using them to bolster their position.

 

If more than 50% of cheaters will re-offend, it stands to reason that Lizzie is correct, that "once a cheater, always a cheater" is actually more correct than we care to admit. But why would even the OP want a person that is likely to do it to them again?

 

This is exactly the reason for this thread. "Silly" BSs, hanging on to marriages for dear life. You called it a "silly" stat, and then went on to throw out some "silly" stats of your own.

 

Odds against BSs appear to be about 70% from the numbers you give. Odds against OPs appear to be about 95% to 97% depending on the stat you use. If this is accurate, why wouldn't a BS want to play those odds. Its better than what the OP is looking at. Much better.

 

Given that about 50% of first marriages end in divorce in the US, that means that the OP (if they are looking to marry their MP) is going to be spouse number 2 or greater. The odds for those marriages working out are drastically lower than even the 50/50 faced by first marriages.

 

So yes, you made your point and just reintroduced another. And another and another. Because we can throw out stats until we are all blue in the face.

[Myowntwofeet]

So yes, you made your point and just reintroduced another. And another and another. Because we can throw out stats until we are all blue in the face.

 

 

Sorry about the Spark/Silk mix up.

 

My point was all stats are crap... ( including your mathematics of the 95-97%).

 

So, again.... no relevance, and I really had no desire to open up another " crap stat point".

 

The discussion was why are BS not understood.... because neither side wants to look at reality... we all want to "one up".

 

It doesn't work an imo, believe it never will. Too many want to spout statistics to defend their position.

 

So how about the answer.... we both love the same man, we are both hoping it will work out.... that is the real truth. That if you really love someone, a stat is not going to make you give up on that, if it is actually love.

 

Love is supporting ( regardless of what side of the fence you sit on) but the frustration for many long term OW is when we choose to do that, we are "settling". Yet when BS are choosing it, it is "support and understanding".

 

I say the minute we realize LOVE cannot be scrutinized like which store you shop at or how often you eat out.... we may just start to open the door to understanding both sides better.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Myowntwofeet

[OWoman]

My point was all stats are crap... ( including your mathematics of the 95-97%).

 

I wouldn't go as far as that... but I've yet to see a robust, reliable and generalisable study in this area - and I've looked. It's a volatile subject, so I guess that's not surprising.

 

But even if there were statistics, so long as the odds were less than 100%, people (BS or OW) are going to feel that they might be among the lucky ones. People are just optimistic that way - as I posted earlier. Quoting stats at them is not going to change that. And, so long as there are some of us (on whichever side) that things have worked out for, that will continue to give others hope when they read - whether "valid" in their circumstances or not.

[Spark1111]

Jennie, this is a great post!

 

I too am loyal to a fault. I also can honestly admit that all my long-term relationships at some point have wanted to reconcile ( that being as long as 5 years past) and regardless of bad endings, etc.

 

I also have only had three "emotional relationships" and those are the ones I am referring too. When you have that bond, it is incredibly hard to break and even after years.... many don't. The only difference and reason I have not reverted is I really do work to get over. I get emotional, and don't avoid the pain of the relationship ending. I don't compartmentalize ( like so many men do) and I bang my head until it really sinks in.

 

Most men, including my exMM do the opposite. They put it in a pot, put a lid on it and hope for the best. That normally works for a while, and I can only assume when reconciling ( this is my first and last A) that it makes it easier to cope... maybe for the first year while both BS/WS are working hard, trying to rekindle, have fun.... the problem is and I do believe one of the reasons divorce usually happens in the 18-36 months after is that- the pot starts to boil over. And if it is a split affair, the memories start to haunt, one or both. I know my MM is hoping ( the " positive thought", Yes I can) have what we had.... I hope they do, because the opposite - empty shell marriage is a scary idea and I think knowing them and the situation it is a very likely possibility as I don't think either will leave if the waters calm, regardless of the level of self fulfillment.

 

This is an interesting point, and I do agree men are better at compartmentalizing certain aspects of their lives than women do. We always seem to be looking for the emotional cohesion to it all.

 

And I am sure that many men return for reasons of guilt and obligation hoping the marriage will get better.

 

In my opinion, it will not unless he is willing to invest an equal amount of time, attention, and passion with his spouse as he did with his OW; with a big dose of very believable remorse thrown in on a daily basis.

 

If he returns for reasons other than re-kindling the love and passion that once existed, that may certainly be okay with some BS, but not all.

 

Not me.

 

Why would I possibly care if he NOW feels guilty, if the guilt was not enough to prevent him from having the affair in the first place?

 

It's HIS guilt to own, not mine.

His guilt may be enough to cause him to try and reconcile and end the affair, but it would have no bearing on whether or not I CHOOSE to reconcile with him.

 

I think OW/OM are at a distinct disadvantage during the reconciliation process because most (not all) are now out of the info loop once NC is firmly established.

 

You really cannot know what is truly going on between the MP and their spouse as they embark on this very arduous journey. Many do not make it.

It is harder, takes more courage, and more committment than divorcing, IMO.

 

No one, in their right mind, would "settle" or be "settled for" to endure this pain for any other reason than love.