Why are most women...

[OWoman]

OK, since I was the one to make the original claims that have since morphed into "the OW feels feathers for the BW", let me weigh into this:

 

If the OW is like most OW that don't feel that the owe the BW anything' date=' she doesn't feel she needs to be forgiven for anything anyway.[/quote']

 

I would agree with this from my own personal position. Similarly,

 

Just out of interest, where the OW does not really know the BW, would she (the OW) be interested in being forgiven anyway? I would have thought not. Any OW care to comment?

 

I'd agree with this. I could care less if my H's xW, or any of my fMM's BWs /xWs choose to forgive me or not (if they even know of me...). That's a parallel universe, one I've never visited and have no inclination to visit.

 

n some cases the W is not real to the OW for many reasons. ... Personally I don't think the OW set out to hurt the BS, actually with what I have heard and seen , the BS is not even thought of, good, bad or indifferent.

 

This was my original point. The BW doesn't show up on the OW's radar, so she doesn't "matter" to the OW. It's not that the OW knows about her, knows she's real, and sets out to erase her in some way - she simply doesn't feature. (Bearing in mind I'm talking generally here - obviously each case is different in its own way...)

 

When I spoke of "post hoc" remorse, I wasn't referring to cases like FA's, where

 

I accept my part in her pain. I am gulity of helping him to hurt her. But I did not set out to hurt her. I did not know her, I did not know OF her. That does not absolve me of my part in this. After I found out about her, I chose to stay in the affair, and for that I feel badly. It is not in my nature to ever purposely cause someone pain. BUT, I stand by the fact that I did NOT make a commitment to her, the betrayal for THAT is her husbands burden to carry, not mine.

 

I owe her my remorse, because she is a human being hurt by my choices, but not because HE broke his vow. Do you see the difference?

 

but to some cases where, after it's all gone pear-shaped, the OW suddenly feels the need for the BW's forgiveness in order to move on with her life. Now, it may be that this is a more subtle version of FA's case - perhaps being tossed under a bus suddenly provided the epiphany of "wow! He's M! He has a W! and I've injured that W!" and so at that point the realisation kicks in and suddenly the OW feels remorse and seeks forgiveness from the BW... But IMO chances are that's got little to do with the W, and a great deal more to do with the OW and her own pain, and her wanting to make amends with the universe as some kind of closure, some kind of trade off to lessen her own suffering - or some kind of identification with the W through their "shared" suffering, which the OW seeks to resolve by an olive branch, uniting the dark side with the light to form the universal whole, IDK.

 

Anyway, my original comment was not to imply that the OW was badly inclined towards the BW, but rather that the BW didn't exist for her one way or the other.

[bentnotbroken]

Just out of curiousity, just to add to Kizzy's OP which is on the same line, do any of the BS's ever take any responsibility for the A? Meaning could the BS have been a contributer directly or indirectly that led the WS look elsewhere?

 

 

No. A cheating spouse isn't responsible for a non-cheating spouse remaining faithful. It is an individual decision based on one's personal beliefs of what they will and will not stoop.

[bentnotbroken]

It does happen on a rare occasion. But I would have to say that MY experience on these boards is that the betrayed spouse rarely thinks that they should own any part of what happened.

 

Before I get beat up for it, I will say that NOTHING makes the cheating 'okay', but there are many things that happen in the marriage from both MPs that contribute to the affair. Most often, in my opinion, it is an emotional disconnect between the spouses, that rather than either of them putting in the effort to fix it, the betrayed party ignores, and the wayward party starts to look outside the marriage to find that connection.

 

If a man or woman cheats on their spouse, it is NOT because they have a perfect, wonderful marriage at home. It is because there is SOMETHING lacking at home. Often times the betrayed party feels that something is wrong, but rather than rock the boat, because they are 'mostly' happy, they continue on with the status quo.

 

I know that in my own marriage, I saw it coming. I tried to make changes, but was unable to be the person he thought I should be. I was still hurt when it happened, but I knew that part of it was my fault. I knew what he expected of me, and was not willing to live up to it. (Our morals and values were just too different.) But that was a choice I made, and one I must own.

 

 

That argument only works if both partners cheat. There are many unhappy married people who never cheat. They either stay or divorce. It was never and will never be my fault that he cheated. I own 100% of my contribution to marital problems, things that I have worked hard to change so that those things won't be a part of me in new relationships.

[bentnotbroken]

Also, most state that the ultimate form of betrayal is "cheating"....I do not agree, there are many forms of betrayal yet all I hear is the cheating part.

 

 

For me it is the lying, deceiving, gas lighting, putting my life in danger, and talking about my kids that was the ultimate.

[pureinheart]

It does happen on a rare occasion. But I would have to say that MY experience on these boards is that the betrayed spouse rarely thinks that they should own any part of what happened.

 

Before I get beat up for it, I will say that NOTHING makes the cheating 'okay', but there are many things that happen in the marriage from both MPs that contribute to the affair. Most often, in my opinion, it is an emotional disconnect between the spouses, that rather than either of them putting in the effort to fix it, the betrayed party ignores, and the wayward party starts to look outside the marriage to find that connection.

 

If a man or woman cheats on their spouse, it is NOT because they have a perfect, wonderful marriage at home. It is because there is SOMETHING lacking at home. Often times the betrayed party feels that something is wrong, but rather than rock the boat, because they are 'mostly' happy, they continue on with the status quo.

 

I know that in my own marriage, I saw it coming. I tried to make changes, but was unable to be the person he thought I should be. I was still hurt when it happened, but I knew that part of it was my fault. I knew what he expected of me, and was not willing to live up to it. (Our morals and values were just too different.) But that was a choice I made, and one I must own.

 

Cool, that is encouraging to hear that a few have taken resposibility for the WS's A....you know sometimes cheating is not the ultimate betrayal, actually, the ultimate betrayal has different meanings for different people.

 

Therefore the umtimate betrayal could be somethinhg that the BS did/committed, although it is not seen as the "biggy" to them.

 

For me, I was cheated on and dealt with my H. I cheated on him and didn't care. I had an EA and took the heat for all of it. In each case I took my part of the responsibility, not always right away, but shortly after.

 

This is what I know...it takes two to make a M and two to break one....I have yet to see where there is 100% of the fault is on one person, I'm sure there are VERY rare cases, I have not seen those rare cases in this forum.

 

I hope we are here to vent, release and come to realistic terms as to truth...to become better people, realising that absolutely no one is perfect and we all fall short....hey if it takes a few rantings to get there cool....just I hope it is in the right forum....I don't know what forum I fit in now????!!!!! Too many typos in this one...good night and God Bless all

Edited January 12, 2010 by pureinheart

[OWoman]

If a man or woman cheats on their spouse, it is NOT because they have a perfect, wonderful marriage at home. It is because there is SOMETHING lacking at home.

 

That argument only works if both partners cheat.

 

Not necessarily - it merely implies that one person was unhappier than the other - unhappy enough to be "driven" to cheat while for the other things were not yet that desperate. It's quite possible for one person to think the M is just fine, while for the other it is unmitigated hell.

[Trimmer]

Every BS I know on this forum takes full responsibility for their part of the marital problems pre-affair. The MP, though, owns the A. Their choice to cheat instead of work the problem or divorce.

I will completely agree with this in my case.

 

...I cannot remember a BS taking any form, even a small portion of responsibility for the A. I know this sounds like unusual concept, although I think it is relevent.

Technically, you're probably right - as silktricks points out above, BS quite often come to a place where they understand, own, and take responsibility for their part in the state of the marriage, but not "for the affair." Even if I accept that I pushed my spouse away, day by day, as you put it, she always had the choice to leave the marriage before she cheated on me, instead of after. Nothing I could have done justified the difference in that decision. Whether I was evil, just boring, or whatever, she left me; I totally own my part in that. Her choice to cheat before doing it, before even letting me know she was leaving: that's all hers.

 

Concerning this forum, and if I am wrong, please let me know,

Again if you're talking about BSs taking responsibility for the WS decision to have an affair, then no, you're probably (and not surprisingly) right! You won't find that anywhere. But if you believe that BS's never consider or take responsibility for their own part in the marriage, I can find lots of examples from many different BS's for you. In my own case, this question has come up before: I submit post #15 in this thread for your review.

 

Also, most state that the ultimate form of betrayal is "cheating"....I do not agree, there are many forms of betrayal yet all I hear is the cheating part.

I accept that you may have different opinions than I do; for purposes of discussion, I'm trying to think of anything I would personally consider worse than cheating. I would be interested to hear types of betrayal that you would consider to be worse than a cheating spouse, if you're willing to share.

[reboot]

Concerning this forum, and if I am wrong, please let me know, although I cannot remember a BS taking any form, even a small portion of responsibility for the A. I know this sounds like unusual concept, although I think it is relevent.

 

Why would a BS share any blame for the affair? That's ludicrous. Almost every BS I've seen on here takes responsibility for their part in the marriage getting to the point of an affair, but they are in no way responsible for the actual affair. I can choose to keep my pants on and honor my vows no matter what state my marriage is in, or get out of it and do whatever I want. If one spouse won't do that it isn't the others fault.

[crazycatlady]

I have ALWAYS taken my responsibility for the affair. ALWAYS. I never said I bore no responsibility for what happened. Also, I too believe most BS do not accept that they also have a responsibility. But most anything I've written that mentions being betrayed I'll state that I had some of the responsibility for it happening.

 

I am responsible for my part of things. If you want me to go back into it and what I feel I was responsible for I'll be glad to do it. Ohhh man though did I get jumped on for trying to take some of the responsibility.

 

As for why should the BS take some of the blame? Because we are responsible to at least try to meet our mate's needs. Because we are responsible to our mate to be kind, not take them for granted, to keep the passion alive, to not let every day stress come before the marriage, to not nag, belittle, put down. Not to consider them part of the furnishings of a "happy marriage". To not be judgemental. There are loads of reasons the BS shares in the blame, or at least the blame in the marriage being shaky.

 

CCL

[reboot]

As for why should the BS take some of the blame? Because we are responsible to at least try to meet our mate's needs. Because we are responsible to our mate to be kind, not take them for granted, to keep the passion alive, to not let every day stress come before the marriage, to not nag, belittle, put down. Not to consider them part of the furnishings of a "happy marriage". To not be judgemental. There are loads of reasons the BS shares in the blame, or at least the blame in the marriage being shaky.

 

CCL

 

Yes. But if I'm not meeting your needs, and I refuse to try, or am somehow just incapable of doing so, you should DIVORCE me, not CHEAT on me.

[bentnotbroken]

Not necessarily - it merely implies that one person was unhappier than the other - unhappy enough to be "driven" to cheat while for the other things were not yet that desperate. It's quite possible for one person to think the M is just fine, while for the other it is unmitigated hell.

 

 

I was speaking of a marriage like my own where we both were unhappy. I voiced that. I asked for counseling, for help and to change things. It didn't happen it was "my problem" so I shut down. The cycle begin. It doesn't always imply one is more unhappy than the other. It most certainly implies different coping mechanisms. I felt more respect for him than to cheat. I coped by checking out, drinking too much on occasion and planning suicide. He stuck is willie in another man's wife. I never thought it wasn't possible for one person to be happy with the marriage and the other not. I stick by that isn't always the case, it is a neater way of looking at it, but not always the case.

[bentnotbroken]

I have ALWAYS taken my responsibility for the affair. ALWAYS. I never said I bore no responsibility for what happened. Also, I too believe most BS do not accept that they also have a responsibility. But most anything I've written that mentions being betrayed I'll state that I had some of the responsibility for it happening.

 

I am responsible for my part of things. If you want me to go back into it and what I feel I was responsible for I'll be glad to do it. Ohhh man though did I get jumped on for trying to take some of the responsibility.

 

As for why should the BS take some of the blame? Because we are responsible to at least try to meet our mate's needs. Because we are responsible to our mate to be kind, not take them for granted, to keep the passion alive, to not let every day stress come before the marriage, to not nag, belittle, put down. Not to consider them part of the furnishings of a "happy marriage". To not be judgemental. There are loads of reasons the BS shares in the blame, or at least the blame in the marriage being shaky.

 

CCL

 

 

I don't take responsibility for adultery when I didn't commit it. He can't take responsibility for me not committing adultery. I will answer to God for the things I have done wrong, not repented for and asked forgiveness for, as will he. We can't take on others choices, especially those who are supposed to be an adult. If I had gone through with the suicide because I was unhappy with the way he treated me, would he be responsible? If I had committed suicide after finding out, would he be held responsible?

 

Yes, someone is going to jump on the "it's comparing apples to oranges" argument. I am not talking about fruit. I am talking about personal decisions and individual choices.

[silktricks]

I was speaking of a marriage like my own where we both were unhappy. I voiced that. I asked for counseling, for help and to change things. It didn't happen it was "my problem" so I shut down. The cycle begin. It doesn't always imply one is more unhappy than the other. It most certainly implies different coping mechanisms. I felt more respect for him than to cheat. I coped by checking out, drinking too much on occasion and planning suicide. He stuck is willie in another man's wife. I never thought it wasn't possible for one person to be happy with the marriage and the other not. I stick by that isn't always the case, it is a neater way of looking at it, but not always the case.

 

I (personally) would think it is probably more often that when one person is really unhappy in a marriage that most probably both are unhappy. I know I was. Like you, I didn't cope well, but it wasn't as if I didn't try the best I knew how at the time. He made a different choice.

 

but... we are FAR off the original topic of this thread, and I'd like to pull it back a little. I got a little hung up on this statement by OWOMAN "

 

some cases where, after it's all gone pear-shaped, the OW suddenly feels the need for the BW's forgiveness in order to move on with her life.

 

See, I never got that concept of why....???? Most of the OW I've known personally did not care. They wanted to be left alone, of course, and not stalked but weren't in need of "forgiveness" by the wife.

 

I can kind of get the possibility of some kind of 12 step program of attempting to make amends or something, but I have a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that when the affair is over and the MM has returned to his wife, that NOW, the OW wants/expects/needs forgiveness from the BS.

 

Would she want/need forgiveness if the MM had chosen to stay with her?

 

(I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or mean, I really would like an answer, if possible).

[OWoman]

I got a little hung up on this statement by OWOMAN "

 

some cases where, after it's all gone pear-shaped, the OW suddenly feels the need for the BW's forgiveness in order to move on with her life.

 

See, I never got that concept of why....???? Most of the OW I've known personally did not care. They wanted to be left alone, of course, and not stalked but weren't in need of "forgiveness" by the wife.

 

I can kind of get the possibility of some kind of 12 step program of attempting to make amends or something, but I have a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that when the affair is over and the MM has returned to his wife, that NOW, the OW wants/expects/needs forgiveness from the BS.

 

Would she want/need forgiveness if the MM had chosen to stay with her?

 

(I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or mean, I really would like an answer, if possible).

 

I've not been there, so I'm guessing:

 

The MM leaves the OW. Possibly tossing her under a bus on the way. The OW is devastated.

 

Because it was an A, it may well have been hidden - so she can't grieve the end of the R as openly as she might otherwise - and she can't have her grief validated, her mourning affirmed and the extent of her feelings and investment acknowledged. And so, within the confines of her psyche, her pain amplifies.

 

She seeks some kind of "treatment" for this - either by reading self-help books, or by speaking to close friends, or through counselling, for example. She is deeply troubled - she wants to know WHY things didn't work out, and she starts to feel she has dirty karma, or some other kind of unresolved issues / unfinished business she needs to confront and overcome so that her next R has a better chance of a successful outcome.

 

And so, in her pain, she starts to identify with the pain she (inadvertantly or insouciantly) caused to the BW back then, during the A. Not just because misery loves company, but because - in her state of pain - she now feels some kind of psychic connection with other people in pain, and specifically those to whose pain she may have contributed. She hopes that, by reaching out to them in their pain, she can help absolve herself, and thus relieve some of her own suffering. OK, that probably sounds a bit harsh and self-serving, and I doubt anybody does it quite that callously or manipulatively, but it's often quoted at people who are in pain that the best way to deal with their own pain is to step outside of themselves and do something to aid the suffering of others.

 

This is a woman who's been dumped - often in very cruel and harsh ways. She's been erased in a way that a woman dumped by a SG seldom is - most SPs don't invoke rigorous NC after a break up, or erase any trace that that person ever existed after the R ends. Yet she is completely nullified. She needs to matter again - to herself, to others out there. If she feels there's some kind of karmic curse hanging over her, she needs to appease the R gods - and to do that, she must do the sack cloth and ashes thing and abase herself in order to seek absolution and restitution. It's very Old Testament, I guess, but on a psychic level it makes sense.

 

If the BW she dissed (through the A) can forgive her, she must be a worthy person, surely? And a worthy person has a hope of finding happiness down the track, surely?

[silktricks]

I've not been there, so I'm guessing:

 

The MM leaves the OW. Possibly tossing her under a bus on the way. The OW is devastated.

 

Because it was an A, it may well have been hidden - so she can't grieve the end of the R as openly as she might otherwise - and she can't have her grief validated, her mourning affirmed and the extent of her feelings and investment acknowledged. And so, within the confines of her psyche, her pain amplifies.

 

 

I get this - in some ways - but at the same time not.

 

For example, I as a BS chose to not grieve openly, as I didn't want to expose either of us and "cause" further damage. (part of the reason I chose to post here..) so I get the need for validation of pain.

 

But... at the same time (again speaking ONLY of personal experience) many of the OW I've known were quite open with their friends about the state of their relationship. When (if) it demolished (one instance, the man died) their grief was palpable AND openly expressed.... granted everyone in the world didn't know of their situation(s), but their close friends did, and really even if it's a brother or sister who dies, it's only your close friends who you rely on in your grief, isn't it?

 

OK. Still somewhat confused here..

[crazycatlady]

Yes. But if I'm not meeting your needs, and I refuse to try, or am somehow just incapable of doing so, you should DIVORCE me, not CHEAT on me.

 

 

I don't know about that....See, I am much happier he chose to have an affair then cheat on me. And I know a few people who feel the same way.

 

Our marriage was having problems. It was problems we have had before AND there was a few added factors - we were apart for the first physical act (I'm guessing, I am not positive it happened then because I haven't confronted them about it) and until after that visit he didn't know (I think he should have) that the OW was most definately off limits (we have an open marriage, a good one, but an open one). After he got back and discovered how strongly I would object to it - and I said it very poorly - he hid it out of not wanting to hurt me. When things started to get shaky at home for a variety of reasons, it was easy to turn to her. She came out to visit which probably helped keep it going where it might have fallen off otherwise. We kept disconnecting, they kept connecting.

 

I didn't realize how badly we were disconnecting. I thought I was giving him space to work through his own work issues and being loving and supporting of him. I didn't realize and he didn't tell me he needed more from me during this time. Stress lowered both our sex drives, he had a few out there ideas on jobs that I did veto without even consider which made him feel I was always telling him no. And it became easier and easier to get emotional with this other person.

 

Finding out was a wake up call to how I was acting. And even then it took me reading something else 3 weeks later to get my act in gear and get me back where I needed to be which helped him get back to where he needed to be emotionally. The one person who got really screwed over was the OW. And I feel bad about it because she is important to me. And I do think she felt bad because I'm important to her.

 

Crap happens, and while I didn't stick his dick in her, I helped create the situation for it to happen and for the emotions to grow afterwards.

 

But I would have been hurt far more if he had divorced me first. A heck of a lot more.

 

CCL

[reboot]

Obviously my point of view is very different from yours.

[herenow]

I don't know about that....See, I am much happier he chose to have an affair then cheat on me. And I know a few people who feel the same way.

 

Crap happens, and while I didn't stick his dick in her, I helped create the situation for it to happen and for the emotions to grow afterwards.

 

But I would have been hurt far more if he had divorced me first. A heck of a lot more.

 

CCL

 

I take responsibility for my part in the problems our marriage had. And I agree that the affair was a wake up call that we both needed to take a close look at ourselves and our marriage.

 

In no way do I agree that having an affair was the better way to deal with those problems. I think being served divorce papers would have had a less damaging effect on me. We still would have been in the same place. Separated and deciding how to move forward.

 

If we were dealing with divorce as opposed to an affair, the lies and betrayal would not have been an issue.

[NoIDidn't]

Anyway, my original comment was not to imply that the OW was badly inclined towards the BW, but rather that the BW didn't exist for her one way or the other.

 

I agree with this from my experiences as OW (though not to MM) and from what my H and his former OW said.

 

They weren't thinking of me. They were thinking of each other.

 

I only became real to her, AND to him, when d-day occured and they were trying to calm their respective SOs.

 

I never quite get the question, or the point of the question, asked by the OP, whenever it is asked. I don't see why an OW needs the BW's forgiveness. I also don't see why she would want it.

 

I will say this though, her boyfriend was actually mad at my H when, to me, his beef should have been with her. And I told him so. I was going to deal with my marriage, he needed to deal with the mother of his child and how it happened - not the person it was done with because it could have been ANYONE.

 

And if it could have been anyone, what's the need to forgive this significant stranger?

 

Just my 2.

[Spoiled]

My xMM's W was hurt terribly and I hope she finds the strength to forgive me. We were friends for 12 years and were close even throughout the A. I did feel guilt for my actions, betraying my H and a close friend. And one of my greatest strengths prior to this situation was my compassion and concern for others. Always cared about my character and how I treat others. This entire experience has weighed heavily on my thoughts toward myself.

 

In my situation, I was blamed for the situation by her and she continued to keep in on a very high pedestal. Comments online by her soon after d-day read "best husband" and "wonderful husband." During our conversation she blamed me for using her to get to him and more. She was outraged because he covered up my identity for a week and would not say anything negative about me. I did not ask her for forgiveness because at the time, it would have not been sincere. I loved her H and desired to continue the A.

 

Like Reboot mentioned, I now wish I had filed for divorce versus having the A. I was unhappy for a long time, tried to work on M without efforts from my H. Just did not have enough courage to leave.

[pureinheart]

Ok Ladies, (did you notice the cap on Ladies), so I deliver this concept with a bit of humor and respect. To the "BS's" (this is not going to come out right I bet) who gave up/lost/D and the OW/OM got stuck with your ex, shouldn't you apologize to her?

 

Now very seriously, most everyone thinks someone owes them an apology, for me, I don't care. exMM/might be BF if he gets his shoot together is always telling me...."you owe me an apology" *saying this in sarcastic tone*....I want to break his face off at this point....his whole screwed up family is like this and I hear it from others.

 

Actually in my case, and this is about 60% of the cases out there, MM chased me for years, had EA with MM, I kicked MM to the curb telling him to be emotionally/in all ways faithful to your W....SO, the W, kids, grandkids, dog, cat all come after me, threateneing me (I am leaving out the gory details)....hummmm who is owed an apology?

 

Oh and btw, when I first met him I was telling him, (chastising him to be more exact) to take his W out to dinner and movie, flowers....he would say in a sarcastic tone....no Fing way.

[pureinheart]

Ok Ladies, (did you notice the cap on Ladies), so I deliver this concept with a bit of humor and respect. To the "BS's" (this is not going to come out right I bet) who gave up/lost/D and the OW/OM got stuck with your ex, shouldn't you apologize to her?

 

Now very seriously, most everyone thinks someone owes them an apology, for me, I don't care. exMM/might be BF if he gets his shoot together is always telling me...."you owe me an apology" *saying this in sarcastic tone*....I want to break his face off at this point....his whole screwed up family is like this and I hear it from others.

 

Actually in my case, and this is about 60% of the cases out there, MM chased me for years, had EA with MM, I kicked MM to the curb telling him to be emotionally/in all ways faithful to your W....SO, the W, kids, grandkids, dog, cat all come after me, threateneing me (I am leaving out the gory details)....hummmm who is owed an apology?

 

Oh and btw, when I first met him I was telling him, (chastising him to be more exact) to take his W out to dinner and movie, flowers....he would say in a sarcastic tone....no Fing way.

 

My percentage is mostlikely off in thinking about it....sorry....take out the percentage part

[pureinheart]

Oh and I still say, "cheating" isn't the only biggy...exMM/thinking about BF if he gets something right soon....money is his deal....take his money and you have committed the deadly sin....you just have cheated on him.

[pureinheart]

I was speaking of a marriage like my own where we both were unhappy. I voiced that. I asked for counseling, for help and to change things. It didn't happen it was "my problem" so I shut down. The cycle begin. It doesn't always imply one is more unhappy than the other. It most certainly implies different coping mechanisms. I felt more respect for him than to cheat. I coped by checking out, drinking too much on occasion and planning suicide. He stuck is willie in another man's wife. I never thought it wasn't possible for one person to be happy with the marriage and the other not. I stick by that isn't always the case, it is a neater way of looking at it, but not always the case.

 

((((((((((BNB)))))))....GBU, I'm sure you won't, although I hope another person never has that much (control)? is that the right word?, over your emotions as to think of suicide....I was just there and understand, I felt totally alone and hopeless....I am so sorry....((((((((((huggggs again))))).

 

Hey people make mistakes, your ex made a mistake, you made mistakes....it's all good though because you woke up this morning

 

Sorry if my reply didn't make the sense that I want it to....doing home improvements, just call me Tim Allen....I hate doing home improvements! Anyway, my heart is in the right place....

[silktricks]

Has anybody mentioned the fact that the spouse (okay, forgive me, I'm not up on the initial thing yet!) feels a little inadequate next to the OW (I figured that one out)?

 

And then there's the guilt because the OW gave the cheater what the spouse couldn't (or wouldn't).

 

People cheat for all sorts of reasons and people hook up with cheaters for all sorts of different reasons. I won't pretend to understand those, although I'd be game for someone to explain them to me.

 

The real deal is that forgiveness needs to spread all the way around for the incident to be truly put to rest.

 

Well, speaking only for myself, I don't think the "fact" that you claim is either a fact or even close to reality. I neither feel nor felt at any time "inadequate" compared to the OW. I felt sorry for her initially, but that quickly evaporated with her continued harassment for over 2 years.

 

As far as guilt over what the OW may or may not have given my husband - no, I felt no guilt there, either. My husband is a grown man and could have dealt with our issues straight up instead of sideways with cruelty.

 

That is not saying that I didn't or don't own my half of the problems pre-affair, but if one partner either won't or can't straightforwardly discuss and/or work on the problems, the other partner is pretty much unable to solve them.

 

Frankly, the OW does not enter into our marriage. I do not feel any need to "forgive" her or even think about her. If she came to me desirous of "forgiveness", I would consider it, but she has not and I am certain will not at this point (it's been over 5 years, after all).

 

So, possibly that is the "real deal" for you, but it's not for me.