Why are most women...

[Fallen Angel]

This can be a double-edged sword. Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones, but have you ever stopped to think how you will feel if you are not?

 

I know so many personal, intimate details about OW in my situation, she would freak if she had a clue how much I know about her.

 

The truth is, my life is an open book. I share it openly with you all on here, I share it just as openly with people in my everyday life.

 

If his wife were to call me and want to know about me, I would be just as open with her. Honesty is my nature. There is nothing he can tell her about me that could hurt me. As long as what he says about me is honest.

 

Outside of our affair, I am ashamed of nothing I have done in my life. (and I am ashamed not because I love him, but because I know that my participation in this affair helps him to hurt her, and that is not true to my true nature.) Are there things I would change? Of course, but as to her knowing intimate details of my life *shrug* the thought of it doesn't really bother me.

[bentnotbroken]

The truth is, my life is an open book. I share it openly with you all on here, I share it just as openly with people in my everyday life.

 

If his wife were to call me and want to know about me, I would be just as open with her. Honesty is my nature. There is nothing he can tell her about me that could hurt me. As long as what he says about me is honest.

 

Outside of our affair, I am ashamed of nothing I have done in my life. (and I am ashamed not because I love him, but because I know that my participation in this affair helps him to hurt her, and that is not true to my true nature.) Are there things I would change? Of course, but as to her knowing intimate details of my life *shrug* the thought of it doesn't really bother me.

 

 

That's really easy to say if you haven't had it happen to you yet. To have someone know the things that you have only shared with friends or family. Worse yet the things you only shared with the person you thought you loved and trusted with your life. Not just your thoughts and feelings, but your finances, your health issues, your relationship with your siblings, parents, even your dreams and hopes.

 

It is to *shrug* it off now, without having to actually know that parts of your life has actually been discussed and dissected by someone you may not know. I think of it as it must feel like the way celebrities must feel when people go through your trash, follow you when you go to the grocery store and know what disease you have before you do. Yes, over the top, but even tonight I have read where conversations took place with WS telling them what to do get closer to the wife. That requires intimate knowledge of a person(who did not give consent by the way) and their life(which may or may not be totally accurate) and the input from a stranger.

[eeyore1981]

The truth is, my life is an open book. I share it openly with you all on here, I share it just as openly with people in my everyday life.

 

If his wife were to call me and want to know about me, I would be just as open with her. Honesty is my nature. There is nothing he can tell her about me that could hurt me. As long as what he says about me is honest.

 

Outside of our affair, I am ashamed of nothing I have done in my life. (and I am ashamed not because I love him, but because I know that my participation in this affair helps him to hurt her, and that is not true to my true nature.) Are there things I would change? Of course, but as to her knowing intimate details of my life *shrug* the thought of it doesn't really bother me.

 

It has nothing to do with being ashamed or being an open book. How do you not get that? My brother was very ill and almost died a few times. I had to jump on a plane at a moments notice twice to be with him. He was part of me. This was so devastating to me, it was a tragedy for me, it was personal. This was my heartbreak, and this thing was allowed into it by my H, she was kept up to date on every detail, and all of it was behind my back.

 

You may be an open book, and not care if anyone knows every single detail of your life. Good for you, and nice you have a choice, unlike 'your' MM's wife, who gets to sit at home wondering where her H is while he is talking about her to you, whether she likes it or not.

[GreenEyedLady]

It has nothing to do with being ashamed or being an open book. How do you not get that?

 

You may be an open book, and not care if anyone knows every single detail of your life. Good for you, and nice you have a choice, unlike 'your' MM's wife, who gets to sit at home wondering where her H is while he is talking about her to you, whether she likes it or not.

 

How do you not get that IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU?

 

YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

 

Oh, the W does have a choice. She chooses every day whether to stay in the M or not. Just as he does.

 

And back off of Fallen Angel. She's not your WS's OW.

 

GEL

[eeyore1981]

How do you not get that IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU?

 

YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

 

Oh, the W does have a choice. She chooses every day whether to stay in the M or not. Just as he does.

 

And back off of Fallen Angel. She's not your WS's OW.

 

GEL

 

???

 

Seriously? It is about me if I am being talked about, and I was.

 

I am part of the relationship if the relationship is with my husband. That's why it's called "MY".

 

The wife chooses to stay in the marriage? WTH? I don't recall reading a single post explaining her MM is a polygamist and she is another wife. You say this as if the W has had the situation explained to her, and knows her H is with FA, and has decided to accept it. We know nothing about the wife other than what FA has said, and she gets her info from the guy who is married and has her on the side. Maybe he's completely accurate with his info, but the odds are against it. IIRC, there was a DDay. All that says is at some point she was aware, doesn't mean she hasn't chosen or been manipulated into believing it is over.

 

FA isn't my H's OW??????????? Really????? Wow, I am confused, I certainly must have mistaken her for someone else. Sorry, while I have many problems and character flaws, transference is not one of them. (Or is it 'transferance'? See, character flaw right there, I'm a little anal about correct spelling. )

 

I don't need to back off as I'm not attacking her, I am disagreeing with her. If you don't like what I have to say, or FA, for that matter, there is an ignore function on this forum, feel free to use it on me.

 

I guess next I will be accused of stalking FA just to be mean to her. I noticed she had a thread going, and I stayed out of it. I have been following this thread, and am not going to stop just because she chooses to post in it.

 

If I have any issue with FA at all it would be I read about how she managed to get out of a long term abusive marriage by the skin of her teeth, and then what does she do? She hooks up with a MM. Why? Because so many times, people find some way to repeat destructive behavior. IIRC, first one was 15 years? Now what, 4 years? Jesus. There is more to life than this.

[moaningmyrtle]

How do you not get that IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU?

 

YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

 

Oh, the W does have a choice. She chooses every day whether to stay in the M or not. Just as he does.

 

And back off of Fallen Angel. She's not your WS's OW.

 

GEL

 

I don't agree with anyone calling an OW "the thing" and I do feel for any women such as yourself and FallenAngel who has been seriously misled about the marital status of a man with whom they have entered into a relationship. I imagine the devastation on finding out that he is married is on a par with the devastation of any betrayed wife.

 

However I have to disagree that affairs are not "about the BW". In many cases affairs are all about the BW. It is the nature of the relationship with the BW that can set the tone for the affair. For example the MM who deliberately targets a married OW who says she wants to remain married; because he believes she will make fewer demand on weekend and family time. Or the MM who deliberately choose single women who live some distance away so they can then hide the fact that they are married.

 

In a way the BW can be part of the affair relationship too, especially when there is a lot of time devoted by the WH (and sometimes the OW) to making sure the BW doesn't find out.

 

As for the BW having a choice. Well naturally we all have choices every day about whether to stay in relationships, but this choice is usually based on information available to the person making a choice. A BW who knows nothing of the affair is not operating from a position of knowledge.

Edited January 13, 2010 by moaningmyrtle

[eeyore1981]

I don't agree with anyone calling an OW "the thing" and I do feel for any women such as yourself and FallenAngel who has been seriously misled about the marital status of a man with whom they have entered into a relationship. I imagine the devastation on finding out that he is married is on a par with the devastation of any betrayed wife.

 

 

BBM

 

Normally I would agree with you. But as I said in my last post, I have no problem with transference, and my name for her is meant for her. To me it is too respectful sometimes to refer to her as the OW, and I have downgraded from 'skank' so I am making progress. The 'thing' earned her title, not for having an A with my H, but for using my severely ill daughter as an in to get to my H in the first place. My H claims it wasn't much of an EA, and never went PA, and from what I can find, most of the time I believe it. That being said, I would rather it have been a 5 or 10 year full-blown PA with soulmate love between them than have my child put through what she was put through.

[eeyore1981]

BTW, seriously sorry about the threadjack. Will get back on track starting now.

[NoIDidn't]

However I have to disagree that affairs are not "about the BW". In many cases affairs are all about the BW. It is the nature of the relationship with the BW that can set the tone for the affair.

 

I totally agree with the bolded part. It is generally true.

 

If I may use FallenAngel's story about her A with this MM as an example. She cooks for him, and gives him her undivided attention while she has repeated here that he says his W doesn't do that. That he has to fend for himself while the W cooks for herself and their youngest child. He doesn't get from his W, what he gets from FA. It sounds like he wants to come home from his long time away and be catered to, and his W just isn't going to do that for him anymore.

 

It is generally because of the ways and way of the BW that the affair takes its shape. The constant complaints about what the W does or doesn't do, and then the fact that many OW report that they don't do him "like his W" are my reasons for believing that the A is totally about the BW.

 

The MM grooms the OW to behave differently from the way that he experiences his W with his complaints about his W.

 

And I have to disagree with the "you are not part of the relationship" statement by GEL. Its called a TRIANGLE for a reason. Three people, not two. Its the play off of two of the people that create it. The BW is very much a part of the relationship, whether she knows about it or not.

[NoIDidn't]

How is my invitation into HIS life illegitimate? It is HIS life, he can share it with whomever he choses at anytime. He is a full grown man, capable of making decisions for himself, and he does.

 

He is a married man who's decisions impact the life of his married partner as well. He can not honorably just share himself with whomever he chooses at anytime. And if he were your H, you would not have this view of what he is doing outside of his marriage.

 

What he shares with me is HIS life. He tells me things that are about HIM, things that are said about his wife are generaly peripheral to the story he is telling me about HIMSELF.

 

But why should her personal info be peripheral? Its none of your business. He is sharing his life with her with you, and its none of your business. He doesn't go home and share his information about his time with you with her, so why the double standard here?

 

As to the things he tells me about his children, and grandchildren, well, they are HIS children and grandchildren, again, he has the right to talk about them with anyone he so choses. If he was telling the same stories to one of his work buddies, rather than telling me, you wouldn't say that it is not his right to tell them.

 

His work buddies aren't hoping that he leaves his marriage to be in an intimate relationship with them. Not quite the same thing. Besides I doubt he would tell his work buddies the intimate details that he has shared with you.

 

It is my buisness in so much as he has made it my buisness, chosing to share intimate details with me. Again, I did not sneak in his house and wire it for sound and video, the reason I know intimate details of what goes on there is because I have been invited into that knowledge.

 

I maintain that it is not his right to share intimate details with you. They are none of your business. I am certain that were your roles reversed, you wouldn't take the position that you are taking. If he leaves and marries you, you would have none of this nonsense with another woman, and you know it.

 

I know it makes BS angry to hear that, but saying it isn't so, doesn't make it not so.

 

It isn't so. If you ever "get" this man exclusively, you would not want some woman telling you the above rationalizations for how he has the right to violate your privacy or marriage in such a way. Its the hypocrisy in this position that angers not just BSs, but anyone outside of the A bubble. It will be a great day when people stop assuming/asserting that its only BSs that feel this way.

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't agree with anyone calling an OW "the thing" and I do feel for any women such as yourself and FallenAngel who has been seriously misled about the marital status of a man with whom they have entered into a relationship. I imagine the devastation on finding out that he is married is on a par with the devastation of any betrayed wife.

 

However I have to disagree that affairs are not "about the BW". In many cases affairs are all about the BW. It is the nature of the relationship with the BW that can set the tone for the affair. For example the MM who deliberately targets a married OW who says she wants to remain married; because he believes she will make fewer demand on weekend and family time. Or the MM who deliberately choose single women who live some distance away so they can then hide the fact that they are married.

 

In a way the BW can be part of the affair relationship too, especially when there is a lot of time devoted by the WH (and sometimes the OW) to making sure the BW doesn't find out.

 

As for the BW having a choice. Well naturally we all have choices every day about whether to stay in relationships, but this choice is usually based on information available to the person making a choice. A BW who knows nothing of the affair is not operating from a position of knowledge.

 

You have your opinion and I respect that. I know from my own experience that the XW was not a part of our R. I didn't know about her and when I found out about her, I didn't want to know. She was like a ghost almost. I knew of her but she wasn't real to me, if that makes any sense. And our R did not revolve around talking about her in any shape or form.

 

I of course cannot speak for my H, because I can imagine it is very difficult to arise to my expectations at the time and still keep some semblance of his other life going. But, I when I knew he was married, I considered that his problem, not mine.

 

As for the choice, everyone has a choice. People who are in R's see when things are not going well. They have a choice to decide whether to communicate about it or not. I really don't place a W at such a passive disadvantage. I find it quite disempowering to hand over my choices to someone else.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

And I have to disagree with the "you are not part of the relationship" statement by GEL. Its called a TRIANGLE for a reason. Three people' date=' not two. Its the play off of two of the people that create it. The BW is very much a part of the relationship, whether she knows about it or not.[/quote']

 

I respect your opinion, as always NID.

 

But I think this is that part of the whole A situation that BS's just don't get. They don't like to think that their M doesn't matter to someone. That they as the W are not paid the respect that is their due.

 

I think it's kinda like the wayward who says he doesn't know why he had the A and the BS thinks he's lying.

 

The answer really is, the W is not part of the R, period. Now the R has boundaries due to the nature, but the W really is not part of most A's. Just because she is mentioned doesn't make her a participant. R's are active, give and take between partners.

 

And I'd disagree with A's always being a triangle. I believe that there are many that aren't triangles at all. Parents are not in triangles with their children, etc., yet that is a type of love relationship. It is simply a concurrent relationship. Often times the A does not intersect with the M at all. And that's the way it was in my case.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

I respect your opinion, as always NID.

 

But I think this is that part of the whole A situation that BS's just don't get. They don't like to think that their M doesn't matter to someone. That they as the W are not paid the respect that is their due.

 

I think it's kinda like the wayward who says he doesn't know why he had the A and the BS thinks he's lying.

 

The answer really is, the W is not part of the R, period. Now the R has boundaries due to the nature, but the W really is not part of most A's. Just because she is mentioned doesn't make her a participant. R's are active, give and take between partners.

 

And I'd disagree with A's always being a triangle. I believe that there are many that aren't triangles at all. Parents are not in triangles with their children, etc., yet that is a type of love relationship. It is simply a concurrent relationship. Often times the A does not intersect with the M at all. And that's the way it was in my case.

 

GEL

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

The "nature" of the relationship that you mention is because one of the participants is married. Otherwise, there would be no artificial boundary on it. Most times what is given to the OW, is taken from the BW. This is the triangle that I speak of.

 

You may not have felt the effects of it initially since you didn't know he was married, but it was there. You ended the affair for a time before he decided to remove the artificial boundary (his marriage) to your R.

 

The A automatically intersects with the marriage. It has a joining point - the married partner. Its easy to say that it doesn't when you aren't living in that portion of it.

 

And as far as the "they don't like to hear that their marriage doesn't matter to someone" statement. What exactly did this have to do with what you quoted? I am at a loss for how to respond to it. It doesn't seem to fit with what is being said in any way. I don't care about my marriage mattering to some other woman/man. The respect that I am due is as a person, another living and breathing human being - not as a W. So please, explain this statement's relevance to your other statements. I don't "get" it. LOL.

[Fallen Angel]

I don't agree with anyone calling an OW "the thing" and I do feel for any women such as yourself and FallenAngel who has been seriously misled about the marital status of a man with whom they have entered into a relationship. I imagine the devastation on finding out that he is married is on a par with the devastation of any betrayed wife.

 

However I have to disagree that affairs are not "about the BW". In many cases affairs are all about the BW. It is the nature of the relationship with the BW that can set the tone for the affair. For example the MM who deliberately targets a married OW who says she wants to remain married; because he believes she will make fewer demand on weekend and family time. Or the MM who deliberately choose single women who live some distance away so they can then hide the fact that they are married.

 

In a way the BW can be part of the affair relationship too, especially when there is a lot of time devoted by the WH (and sometimes the OW) to making sure the BW doesn't find out.

 

As for the BW having a choice. Well naturally we all have choices every day about whether to stay in relationships, but this choice is usually based on information available to the person making a choice. A BW who knows nothing of the affair is not operating from a position of knowledge.

 

Yes, it was devestating when I found out he was still married.

 

As to him chosing someone who lived some distance away in order to maintain the split, when I moved to this area, MM wanted me to move to the town he lives in. I chose not to. If he wants to be with me, he can make that hour and a half drive and figure out how to explain his time. *shrug* He always finds a way.

 

As to his wife being a part of our relationship, she is not. She doesn't set the tone of our relationship. He doesn't break dates with me for her, if anything he leaves events he is supposed to be attending with her, in order to be with me. (like when he left the birthday 'party' she threw for him, because he wanted to spend his birthday with me.) Does that mean that I am setting the tone for their marriage? (If it works the way you claim, in her setting the tone for our relationship, then the reverse must also be the same, no?)

 

Our time together is never used to figure out how to make sure she doesn't find out. Our time together is spent loving each other.

 

Yes, I hear some details about her, but we don't spend our time 'talking about her'. I hear about her, mostly by his discriptions, as her 'intruding' on his time with his children and/or grandchildren. Maybe that is not the way he intends to portray it, but that is the way it comes out when he speaks of her at all.

 

As to her not operating from a position of knowledge... well, you tell me..

 

My now ex-husband called her maritial home phone number (he got the number out of my phone and yes he told her that) and she was informed that her husband was having an affair with me. At that point she went through the cell phone bills, and confirmed that at least part of the information about the huge amount of contact between her husband and myself was indeed a fact.

 

The contact never even so much as slowed down, and she has closely watched the cell phone bills ever since (generally the only arguments My MM ever tells me about have to do with the cell phone bill). Not only did it not stop or slow down, but his time away from home with no income to cover it, became more frequent. His online time became more frequent, and his 'trips to the store' 'to the garage' 'to the where-ever' became more frequent after the d-day, as he worked very hard to save his relationship with me, and has never slacked off on his constant pursuit of me since then.

 

If she isn't operating from a place of knowledge, then she is just stupid. And one thing I do know about her, is that she is far from stupid. *shrug* As I have said before, I do not know her motivation in staying with him, be it love, money, social appearance... but she is not making her decisions blindly, that I can assure you of.

[greengoddess]

 

I know it makes BS angry to hear that, but saying it isn't so, doesn't make it not so.

 

 

What I am angry for is you. I wish you could see it. I wish you could see being treated this way is not love. My god it i like peeking through a window of someones life. Like being in a form of prison. Hearing so much about his kids and grandkids and never being able to meet them because you are the secret. You feel so invilved with his life because he gives you these little snippets that make you stay. How can it be enough? You are not involved in a life with him. You are hidden away hearing about the life he is living with his wife and family. Can't you see that? Don't you see how selfish this man is? He hurts you everyday and doesn't care enough to do something about it. It makes me so angry. Selfish *********s.

[greengoddess]

Seriously, yes. I hate to break this to you, but YOU are not the end all be all.

 

With all the question marks, I assume I hit a nerve. Perhaps you should explore that.

 

Perhaps you should remember that guidelines require you to post in a spirit of helping and support not with a nasty tone. And no one questions your choice to stay married to a man who has been unfaithful to you, so I don't think you should throw FA's past posts in her face. Her choices are her choices and some of them cannot be undone now.

 

If you don't like my posts, then YOU can hit the ignore function because I will not be censored.

 

GEL

 

Are you ok? This nasty tone does not sound like you. This has been a nice conversation. What happened? Can we help?

[moaningmyrtle]

Yes, it was devestating when I found out he was still married.

 

As to him chosing someone who lived some distance away in order to maintain the split, when I moved to this area, MM wanted me to move to the town he lives in. I chose not to. If he wants to be with me, he can make that hour and a half drive and figure out how to explain his time. *shrug* He always finds a way.

 

As to his wife being a part of our relationship, she is not. She doesn't set the tone of our relationship. He doesn't break dates with me for her, if anything he leaves events he is supposed to be attending with her, in order to be with me. (like when he left the birthday 'party' she threw for him, because he wanted to spend his birthday with me.) Does that mean that I am setting the tone for their marriage? (If it works the way you claim, in her setting the tone for our relationship, then the reverse must also be the same, no?)

 

Our time together is never used to figure out how to make sure she doesn't find out. Our time together is spent loving each other.

 

Yes, I hear some details about her, but we don't spend our time 'talking about her'. I hear about her, mostly by his discriptions, as her 'intruding' on his time with his children and/or grandchildren. Maybe that is not the way he intends to portray it, but that is the way it comes out when he speaks of her at all.

 

As to her not operating from a position of knowledge... well, you tell me..

 

My now ex-husband called her maritial home phone number (he got the number out of my phone and yes he told her that) and she was informed that her husband was having an affair with me. At that point she went through the cell phone bills, and confirmed that at least part of the information about the huge amount of contact between her husband and myself was indeed a fact.

 

The contact never even so much as slowed down, and she has closely watched the cell phone bills ever since (generally the only arguments My MM ever tells me about have to do with the cell phone bill). Not only did it not stop or slow down, but his time away from home with no income to cover it, became more frequent. His online time became more frequent, and his 'trips to the store' 'to the garage' 'to the where-ever' became more frequent after the d-day, as he worked very hard to save his relationship with me, and has never slacked off on his constant pursuit of me since then.

 

If she isn't operating from a place of knowledge, then she is just stupid. And one thing I do know about her, is that she is far from stupid. *shrug* As I have said before, I do not know her motivation in staying with him, be it love, money, social appearance... but she is not making her decisions blindly, that I can assure you of.

 

I was generalising of course, so it's great for you that none of what I said applies to you.

 

Just one thing that occurred to me though - in your explanation above you haven't said if she asked him whether he was having an affair with you and if so whether he denied it? If she did ask and he confirmed it, her behaviour is rather odd. If he denied it, isn't he gaslighting her?

[silktricks]

The answer really is, the W is not part of the R, period. Now the R has boundaries due to the nature, but the W really is not part of most A's. Just because she is mentioned doesn't make her a participant. R's are active, give and take between partners.

GEL

 

Although I absolutely believe this is true in some, possibly even many cases, I don't believe it is true in all cases. It depends upon the "type" of affair it is, I believe, and the causation, if you will. For example, my husband's affair was based primarily upon anger. Anger towards me, for certain, but also anger towards some other women in his life. I was a "part" of the affair because the causation was primarily anger towards me.

 

Of course, that doesn't make me a participant, that's true , but it doesn't mean that my life and parts of me that I ONLY shared with my husband didn't become exposed. In all honesty, the fact of that exposure of private parts of me was the thing that took the absolute longest to forgive. .

 

So, it's not that I don't get what you're saying, the A for the OW and MM are between them. But the BS is also involved because of her relationship with one of the parties. (After all, if the guy wasn't married, it would have in many ways been a different relationship for the OW and MM as well. )

[John Who]

quicker to forgive their spouse for cheating on them than the OW who was more than likely misled to begin with?

 

 

Although it may appear that way,this is not actually the case.

 

You are not in the same room when BS and WS are going at it because of the A and trust me you don't want to be.

 

IMO the WS gets it worse as they should,the WS is the one who has to deal with the aftermath while the OM/OW only fear is the WS ending the R.

 

The forgiveness does not come easy,we have to work for it and ALOT of anger .hurt and arguing we have to deal with from our W/H.

[OWoman]

After all, if the guy wasn't married, it would have in many ways been a different relationship for the OW and MM as well.

 

Not necessarily. I can't think of any ways in which my R would have been different with my nowH. If I think about what changed between when it was an A, and when it was a R (during the separation, waiting for the D) and now that it is a M, I can't think of anything, really.

[pureinheart]

Please, I hope I word this properly. It is an overall "tone" that I hear from the majority of BS's (possibly some W's also)...it is like there is this positioning as in England and other countries with the various classes of people, or as in a company starting from "laborer" to the CEO.

 

The tone, and it is usually not said in so many words, although it is like the OW or NW (new woman) is basically a "nothing" and that the M is this all encompassing entity or fortress in which there is an ownership of the S. The OW being at the low position. It just doesn't sound right to me.

 

It is like the W is on some sort of pedistal.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I hold M in very high esteem, as it should be, although we do not own our mates, nor do they own us. If they cheat they cheat, move on. Maybe they have found someone they are more compatable with or whatever.

 

Ladies, there are a lot of fish in this sea, the sea is plentiful, and I might add, all of the good men are not taken.

 

Maybe the BS's should thank the other woman as if a guy looks onto AW, let them be and move on....As a former BS, I am not junk, in fact a rare commodity!

[OWoman]

Most times what is given to the OW' date=' is taken from the BW. [/quote']

 

I know you don't claim this to be a universal truth applicable in all cases, but to expand a little more on the "not always" aspect:

 

It depends very much on the nature of the M. Sometimes there really is nothing being taken from the BW, in the sense that it would not have been given her even in the absence of an OW.

 

For example, in a M that is characterised by coldness and distance - the loving and tenderness given to the OW is not "taken" from the BW. Had there been no OW, the MM would not have showered the BW with love and tenderness since that wasn't the nature of their M. Similarly, if they were not in the habit of doing things together, then time spent with the OW was not time "taken" from the BW, since the MM would not have otherwise spent it with the BW, but, for example, on his own somewhere else in the house, out with friends, at work, etc. (Time, specifically, is more often "taken" from his employer, I'd guess, since it's easier to "hide" from the BW...) Also assets - only if the M is in community of property (which is not the default in many places) would any assets spent on the OW be considered to be "taken" from the BW. Many couples are married by ANC, and many couples maintain separate finances, splitting joint / household expenses or taking them in turn, and retaining their own assets elsewise.

 

The OW's gain does not HAVE to be the BW's loss. In some cases, she's lost it all long before the A.

[pureinheart]

With all respect : He has hurt two people .

 

If she is in denial ( this is my gut response ) and he can get her to believe he is scott free hurting two women , then what's to say he won't attempt it again if he has a wife who will forget what he did ?

 

Married women here please reach into the heart of your soul and tell me you can lay down at night with the man who betrayed you ?

 

Some will continue with the marriage.. . But I know if my husband had cheated ( back then when I was married ) I would have told him to leave. No if's and's or but's about it...

 

I never could go back, once they turned their sights, so did I

[OWoman]

I hope it's not a threadjack but have any OW or former OW actually asked the BW for forgiveness? Would you as an OW, consider asking for it? If so how long after the A has ended would this be? Does it make a difference whether the MM left his BW after the A ended, either to be with the OW or to make a new life without either the BW or the OW?

 

No, I wouldn't ask her for forgiveness. Her views are entirely irrelevant to me. My peace of mind relies on my own actions, not those of another.

[bentnotbroken]

Please, I hope I word this properly. It is an overall "tone" that I hear from the majority of BS's (possibly some W's also)...it is like there is this positioning as in England and other countries with the various classes of people, or as in a company starting from "laborer" to the CEO.

 

The tone, and it is usually not said in so many words, although it is like the OW or NW (new woman) is basically a "nothing" and that the M is this all encompassing entity or fortress in which there is an ownership of the S. The OW being at the low position. It just doesn't sound right to me.

 

It is like the W is on some sort of pedistal.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I hold M in very high esteem, as it should be, although we do not own our mates, nor do they own us. If they cheat they cheat, move on. Maybe they have found someone they are more compatable with or whatever.

 

Ladies, there are a lot of fish in this sea, the sea is plentiful, and I might add, all of the good men are not taken.

 

Maybe the BS's should thank the other woman as if a guy looks onto AW, let them be and move on....As a former BS, I am not junk, in fact a rare commodity!

 

 

While your point of view may be shared by many. I find it hard to reconcile what you are posting in this particular instance with what you say your belief system is. God does say we belong to each other in marriage. And that the wife(as well as the husband) should be placed on a pedestal. He also says an outside party shouldn't be held in such esteem. I don't mean anyone is junk, God don't make junk. But the wrong actions against him (and since we are discussing marriage) what he has said marriage is, he called a stench.

 

I don't see the system you describe here, but if it exists in your mind then it is real.