Do you feel bad?

[atlnay]

do you care?

sometimes I do, mostly I don't, but when I start to I make myself stop

 

Does it worry you?

used to, not much anymore

 

Do you feel guilty

in the beginning I felt VERY VERY guilty

 

and if you don't feel guilty why not?

strange as it sounds, as things progressed, the guilt has subsided. I think it's because HE doesn't act guilty & he knows his situation better than me so to an extent, I follow that lead

 

Or do you try not to think about it and not think about the BS?

try not to think about her

 

Is this to try and keep you from feeling the guilt etc, or does the person really not matter in your mind?

Not from feeling guilty. At this time, in my mind, she really doesn't matter.

 

And the type of affair you are having, does this change your view on the BS?

no prior view of her, so nothing changed.

 

And does it matter if you know or don't know the spouse?

It matters. I couldn't & wouldn't be with him if I personally knew her.

[atlnay]

Selfishly yes, malciously no. I think it's rare where the OW is cruel and malcious,

 

That's me. I am being selfish. I know it. I'm not ready to give this up BUT there was no malice in me meeting him & even being with him now.

 

I didn't set out to snare him nor am I trying to take him from her. I don't compare us or our situations & don't get any "kick" out of being with him over her other than the kick I get from just being with him period.

[atlnay]

People seem so sure that the man is always lying about how unhappy he is and then he weaves all these sob stories to make the OW feel sorry for him. But it is possible to love someone yet still be very unhappy in a relationship or married to them.

 

There are a lot of people out there who still love their SO's but are very unhappy, and instead of stepping up and doing the right thing, they go looking for happiness outside of the relationship. They aren't willing to let go of the old for the new because it's often easier to stay with what you know, even if it's miserable, rather than go out on a limb and change your life.

 

Pulled these two quotes out as they best sum up my situation. I actually have a LOT of empathy for m&w in these situations and it's so easy to dismiss those spouses feelings by giving the blanket "DIVORCE your W/H so they can find TWU WUV with someone who will treat him/her like the QUEEN/KING they are":rolleyes:

 

Life ain't black or white. I have more to say but it's 2AM and I need my Zzzzzzs

[pureinheart]

Something another thread made me wonder.

 

Its always the assumtion that the OW/OM does not feel bad about the affair. Doesn't care that the BS got hurt. Not sure where this assumtion came from, most of what I have read in this forum is the remorse. In fact the guilt caused many OW to continually beat themselves up and let others do it also

 

Its always assumed both the WS and the OW/OM are selfish, don't care, feel no remorse etc etc about the pain they are causing.....

 

So I'm curious, do you care? Does it worry you? Do you feel guilty, and if you don't feel guilty why not?

 

I know most hurt because you can't be with your MM/MW but do you also hurt knowing that when you are found out the BS will be hurt?

 

Or do you try not to think about it and not think about the BS? Is this to try and keep you from feeling the guilt etc, or does the person really not matter in your mind?

 

And the type of affair you are having, does this change your view on the BS? And does it matter if you know or don't know the spouse?

 

While I can not prevent others from judging you for what you write, I am simply curious due to the other thread making me think about this.

 

CCL

 

None of the rest applied....

[Fallen Angel]

None of the rest applied....

 

I agree, that has been my experience here as well. In fact, there is a poster who has made me promise her that I will quit calling myself names, though, I will say that often times I was trying to be proactive in calling myself the things that I was sure I was going to be called anyway.

 

We do tend to seem to relish in the abuse sometimes.. I suppose we think of it as doing our penance for our crimes/sins.

[pureinheart]

I felt badly about the affair before MM's wife found out, and I feel badly still because it looks like they're headed for divorce now that she knows about it.

He always felt guilty about it. We both knew it was wrong, and he still cared for his wife--he wasn't completely heartless.

People seem so sure that the man is always lying about how unhappy he is and then he weaves all these sob stories to make the OW feel sorry for him. But it is possible to love someone yet still be very unhappy in a relationship or married to them. I love my parents, but I couldn't stand living under the same roof with them--and part of the reason was because they had, and still have, a miserable marriage. So why does it have to mean that the cheating spouse is the devil?

Yes, there are some people out there who want a family but then also want to get as much sex on the side as possible. That's been happening since the beginning of time. But not everyone is that way. There are a lot of people out there who still love their SO's but are very unhappy, and instead of stepping up and doing the right thing, they go looking for happiness outside of the relationship. They aren't willing to let go of the old for the new because it's often easier to stay with what you know, even if it's miserable, rather than go out on a limb and change your life.

 

((((((Austen))))), I hope you are doing as good as you can....

 

oh how true, I''l tell you, it takes a lot of guts to change what you are used to and that is why most men will stay in an unhappy M rather than take a risk.

 

I was VERY shocked that exMM/maybe exBF if he doesnot put up (then I will shut him up) had the courage to go through with the D. When addressed with that "defining" moment when it came down to only one thing his ex asked him to do or she would leave, and it was a very simple thing.

 

I know this D was difficult for him in many ways.

 

I want to see people happy and out of controlling, horrible relationships..

[silktricks]

I agree, that has been my experience here as well. In fact, there is a poster who has made me promise her that I will quit calling myself names, though, I will say that often times I was trying to be proactive in calling myself the things that I was sure I was going to be called anyway.

 

We do tend to seem to relish in the abuse sometimes.. I suppose we think of it as doing our penance for our crimes/sins.

 

possibly as a result, sometimes offense is taken where none is meant? That is assuming the BS is trying to insult, when he/she is not? I know from personal experience that sometimes happens here (both ways)

[OWoman]

Its always the assumtion that the OW/OM does not feel bad about the affair. Doesn't care that the BS got hurt.

 

These are two entirely different things.

 

I have never felt bad about an A.

 

Do I care that the BS got hurt? Well, AFAIK in none of my previous As was there a D-Day, so AFAIK there was no (A-related) hurt, so there was nothing to care about, one way or the other. In my last A, it would seem the BW did get hurt (being dumped by my H) but it's hard to distinguish A-related hurt from self-inflicted hurt in her case, given how she is.

[crazycatlady]

First, I'm thrilled everyone is being kind so far.

 

OW - No emotions were involved with your previous As correct? At least on your side of things, yes?

 

Altnay - What you said makes perfect sense. You have to disconnect, and once your emotions are involved its easier to do so. I really hope that doesn't sound as harsh to you as it does to me because I don't mean it that way at all.

 

FA - I wonder if that's part of the problem with each side thinking there is bashing going on - certainly there is on each side, but I can see how both sides could misread what's being said due to emotions being high.

 

Also the whole make him leave....If you truly hate what was done, you don't make the other person leave, you do it yourself. Or you are proactive like Bent.

 

Empty threats are not a sign of strenght. The reason why each side of the strenght question could be argued because making the decision and not waffling back and forth over it is the strenght. If you decide cheating is it, you start proceedings yourself, no matter the begging etc. If you decide you will make the M work, you take what's needed to make the M work....part of that is letting go of the hurt and anger (especially the anger) for both parties. Because if that's all you are thinking about, then its not fair to either parties. True strenght I feel lies in the ability to let it go.

 

CCL

[atlnay]

Altnay - What you said makes perfect sense. You have to disconnect, and once your emotions are involved its easier to do so. I really hope that doesn't sound as harsh to you as it does to me because I don't mean it that way at all.

 

Not harsh at all. As much as I have been able to she exists in a box in my mind. As much as I can, while I have deep feelings for him, I know what the situation is and try to keep them tempered. So disconnect, while a stronger word than I would use, is pretty accurate.

Edited January 12, 2010 by atlnay

[OWoman]

OW - No emotions were involved with your previous As correct? At least on your side of things, yes?

 

Correct. The last one got a bit unstuck on that, though...

[silverplanets]

She stayed with him and he has to put up with her ways every day .. .so yes, I guess I do

[ladydesigner]

Do you feel bad?

Something another thread made me wonder.

 

Its always the assumtion that the OW/OM does not feel bad about the affair. Doesn't care that the BS got hurt.

 

Its always assumed both the WS and the OW/OM are selfish, don't care, feel no remorse etc etc about the pain they are causing.....

 

So I'm curious, do you care? Does it worry you? Do you feel guilty, and if you don't feel guilty why not?

 

I know most hurt because you can't be with your MM/MW but do you also hurt knowing that when you are found out the BS will be hurt?

 

Or do you try not to think about it and not think about the BS? Is this to try and keep you from feeling the guilt etc, or does the person really not matter in your mind?

 

And the type of affair you are having, does this change your view on the BS? And does it matter if you know or don't know the spouse?

 

While I can not prevent others from judging you for what you write, I am simply curious due to the other thread making me think about this.

Wow sorry to jump on this thread so late but it is very interesting to say the least. I am a WMW and a BS and I have 2 perspectives on this. When I was in my A with XOM (he has a GF of 5 years) I did not feel bad for his GF. I also did not feel guilty for my actions. I was so caught up in my own feelings for him (which caught me off guard because I began the affair out of revenge for my H's betrayal but ended up falling in love with xOM).

 

What I do and did feel is that I never wanted his GF to find out about our A because I did not want her to feel hurt. When I really felt guilty about the A was after xOM ended things with me stating he had strong feelings for his GF. At that point I felt bad for her in knowing what she did not know and that was that he was not faithful to her.

 

During our A I never really thought about his GF, I do now. I truly feel bad for what I have done to her the most. My actions were very selfish and I was getting an ego boost from it. I was hurt by my own H's betrayal and then I went and did the same thing. It is all very confusing to me and I would never have an A again. I definitely learned from this experience.

Edited January 12, 2010 by ladydesigner

[nama]

I will always feel bad. I believe in karma, and I know that I will get what I deserve. But I don't regret it and never will. One of the main reasons I ended it was because I I kept thinking about the 'poor' wife and how her husband was decieving her. I would never want to be in that position.

[herenow]

I could argue both sides of that argument as well.. but as to most women 'sending him packing' I just have trouble buying that, especially since in my own personal experiences with this, that has not been the case.

 

Wives generally rant, rave, threaten that they will make him leave.. etc.. but in MY EXPERIENCE, they do not actually ever make him leave.. and if they have an indication that he MAY be leaving, they back-pedal on any threat they made about forcing him to leave... *shrug*

 

I'm sure what you say happens. From what I have been told by many BW here and IRL, many times the BW backs off on her "threats" because the MM does a whole lot of crying and begging to stay.

 

Now the MM may tell the OW that his wife was the one begging, but that isn't always the truth.

 

FA, from what I read here, you didn't know that your MM was indeed a MM. How did it feel when you found out he was married?

[Fallen Angel]

I'm sure what you say happens. From what I have been told by many BW here and IRL, many times the BW backs off on her "threats" because the MM does a whole lot of crying and begging to stay.

 

Now the MM may tell the OW that his wife was the one begging, but that isn't always the truth.

 

FA, from what I read here, you didn't know that your MM was indeed a MM. How did it feel when you found out he was married?

 

Furious, heartbroken, destroyed, broken, unworthy (of better), alone, scared, bitter. I called him every bad word I could think of. Hell, I made up cuss words to call him. And he cried, and he begged, and he did all the things MM do to keep their wives.. he did all that with me, and like the wife who loves him, and works through it, so did I love him, and we worked through it.. kind of.. afterall, I am still here... *shrug*

[skylarblue]

So I'm curious, do you care? Does it worry you? Do you feel guilty, and if you don't feel guilty why not?

No, I do not care or feel guilty for having an A with someone’s H for three reasons: 1) I think I have minimal to none responsibility. 2) I’m not causing “actual” pain since the W doesn’t know. 3) I like the position I’m in.

 

I know most hurt because you can't be with your MM/MW but do you also hurt knowing that when you are found out the BS will be hurt?

I understand that discovering the A would devastate the W, but I never intend and definitely never want her to find out. It’s not my intention or goal to hurt her. I do not want a R with her H. I would feel bad if she had to go thru the pain especially since its so meaningless.

 

Or do you try not to think about it and not think about the BS? Is this to try and keep you from feeling the guilt etc, or does the person really not matter in your mind?

The W really doesn’t matter in my mind. Sometimes I think “It really is f*cked up that you (the W) have to go thru this”. More often I think “I’m “better” than you because I got your H to…” But it all hinges on the fact that she does not know about the A. Right now, I see her as having the same untouched, untainted, happy life. So I don’t have any guilt about hurting her. If Dday happens and the H is supposedly “working” on their M, I’d never see him again. She’d become too “real”. I wouldn’t do that her.

 

And the type of affair you are having, does this change your view on the BS? And does it matter if you know or don't know the spouse?

My type of A does change my views on the BS, not as a person but her situation. Because it’s only PA with no chance of falling in love I’m hoping the A will end quietly with the W never knowing. I hoped she is always protected from the A and her M lasts forever. I wouldn’t feel that way if I was emotionally involved with him. And yes, it matters if I know the W or not. Not if I was once briefly introduced, but I do not date friends/family/acquaintances SO…Unless, the R between me and the person is severed. I did sleep with an x-friend’s H out of revenge.

[Lizzie60]

So I'm curious, do you care? Does it worry you? Do you feel guilty, and if you don't feel guilty why not?

 

Of course I care... but it doesn't worry me too much.. since we are extremely careful..and the chances that she'll find out are almost nil...

I don't feel any guilt.. why? because I know I will never take them away from their family...

 

 

 

I know most hurt because you can't be with your MM/MW but do you also hurt knowing that when you are found out the BS will be hurt?

 

I am not hurt.. because I don't fall in love or want them...

 

 

 

Or do you try not to think about it and not think about the BS? Is this to try and keep you from feeling the guilt etc, or does the person really not matter in your mind?

 

To be honest... I never think of the BS.. I feel no guilt.. it's 'anonymous' in my case... so I don't really think about them..

 

 

 

And the type of affair you are having, does this change your view on the BS? And does it matter if you know or don't know the spouse?

 

Yes it does... in a way... because in most cases, the MM does not get their fair share of sex... eventhough they're being good to them... they come to me to have this need fulfill... and I glady ackowledge..

I don't know any of them... I would never ever sleep with a friend's SO... EVER! This is extremely important to me...

Edited January 13, 2010 by Lizzie60

[NoIDidn't]

and if you don't feel guilty why not?

strange as it sounds, as things progressed, the guilt has subsided. I think it's because HE doesn't act guilty & he knows his situation better than me so to an extent, I follow that lead

 

This is it! Exactly why I think OPs, be it OW or OM, don't feel guilt. Because the MP is acting in disregard for the spouse, so why should they when the person married to them is encouraging the A.

 

And I say this without malice. Its just what I think.

[crazycatlady]

Skylarblue - You do think you are better then the wife because you got the H to do??? What? Have an affair? A sex act of some type? Its just curious on my part.

 

I figured the women who are in the PA only affairs would feel the way they do, but I think that's the point of those types of affairs. Its not emotional in their part.

 

CCL

[NoIDidn't]

Couldn't edit because CCL is so quick on the draw. LOL.

 

But I wanted to add this:

It doesn't bother me (anymore) that an OP doesn't feel guilt. To each, his/her own.

[crazycatlady]

I'm bored this evening. H has control of the tv remote and I don't want to watch what he's watching.

[Kizzyfur]

Something another thread made me wonder.

 

Its always the assumption that the OW/OM does not feel bad about the affair. Doesn't care that the BS got hurt.

 

Its always assumed both the WS and the OW/OM are selfish, don't care, feel no remorse etc etc about the pain they are causing.....

 

So I'm curious, do you care? Does it worry you? Do you feel guilty, and if you don't feel guilty why not?

Yes, No, Yes

 

I know most hurt because you can't be with your MM/MW but do you also hurt knowing that when you are found out the BS will be hurt?

Having him go so far as to ask me to marry him then go back to her, yeah that hurt. But I am hurt more because I was stupid and betrayed a friend.

 

Or do you try not to think about it and not think about the BS? Is this to try and keep you from feeling the guilt etc, or does the person really not matter in your mind?

Though I don't deliberately try to, I do think about it off and on quite often; not because I miss him, but because I miss her.

 

And the type of affair you are having, does this change your view on the BS? And does it matter if you know or don't know the spouse?

I think it does matter if you know the spouse. In the end it makes it a whole lot more personal.

 

While I can not prevent others from judging you for what you write, I am simply curious due to the other thread making me think about this

People can judge me however they wish. The only judgment that matters to me is that of God Himself.

[Kizzyfur]

This is not meant to bash, but if the OW cared about how the BW feels, why would she have an affair with her H?

 

The ONLY reason I took MM up on his advancements was because BS had told me she was going to divorce him and had even told me her plans on how she was going to stay with him long enough to get things paid off then file for divorce. I had also gone with her on several occasions to meet with an ex-boyfriend of hers as she was trying to get back with him. I was completely convinced they were going to get a divorce as BOTH of them had wanted one. I was attracted to him and we got along great. We even had more in common than they did. I regret it now very much. I have learned a lot from that experience.

 

I have since been put on the other side of that fence by my current fiance. I forgive the OW but my SO and I have a long road to travel to fully heal. And the ONLY reason I've chosen to stay with him is because it was a one night stand that he regrets very much. He has even suggested counseling if we're unable to reconcile on our own.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Kizzyfur
addition

[crazycatlady]

Kizzy - you will be asked this so I'll ask it myself - why did you betray a friend? Did you tell him about her plan to leave him?Do you think maybe you were a pawn in their game, his toy to make her jealous or to hurt her for having an affair himself?

 

I do believe you regret what you did, and are truly sorry. I hope she eventually forgives you, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

If your new SO is cheating on you already, do you really want to stay with him? And could part of your problem with getting past it be the fact that you personally don't feel you have a right to be forgiven and are projecting that on him?

 

CCL