Sexless marriage - how common?

[nddb]

You have a very valid issue and it's sad that your husband couldn't see that without giving you (or any wife, for that matter), the continued emotional affection, closeness, affirmation and romantic pursuit, your feelings will surely die like a plant without water.

 

It's sad that in most societies, not much emphasis is placed on the husband's responsibility (and indeed, he's the only one who can do this) to nurture the emotional well-being of their wives.

 

Is it possible that he does feel them but he is simply unskilled in giving CONTINUED affection, affirmation, and romantic pursuit. He's not good at saying the right thing at the right time. His childhood and his education didn't give him these skills. He may feel them, but he's handicapped just as surely as a guy without an arm.

 

To be honest with you, a huge percentage of men are similarly handicapped. Sure we have the skills (well, most of us anyway) for the short sprint during the courting stage but lots of men have been conditioned to see marriage is a done deal, whereas wives don't see it as closure. The smart ones learn to adapt.

 

I think you have the basis for a good relationship, but for the lack of his expression of affection, affirmation of your beauty in his eyes, and romantic pursuit of you. I understand how frustrating it is and how important they are to you and to all women. And without it, the relationship will surely die.

 

But these are learnable skills, unlike ambition, work ethics, loyalty, basic decency, all of which your husband appears to possess.

 

Would you be open-minded to approach the MC with these needs in mind and ask your husband to work on them? The MC can help by impressing upon him that these needs of yours are not trivial, as important as his needs to feel respected and admired.

 

DON'T THINK OF HIS LEARNING THEM AS HE'S FAKING IT AND IT'S NOT FROM HIM. IT MAY VERY WELL BE THAT IT'S ALL BOTTLED UP INSIDE, AND HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS THEM, AND HE NEEDS TO JUST LEARN TO FIRST CRAWL, AND THEN WALK.

 

A basic good and decent person is not easy to find . . . Just think about it.

[cuppa]

You have a very valid issue and it's sad that your husband couldn't see that without giving you (or any wife, for that matter), the continued emotional affection, closeness, affirmation and romantic pursuit, your feelings will surely die like a plant without water.

 

It's sad that in most societies, not much emphasis is placed on the husband's responsibility (and indeed, he's the only one who can do this) to nurture the emotional well-being of their wives.

 

Is it possible that he does feel them but he is simply unskilled in giving CONTINUED affection, affirmation, and romantic pursuit. He's not good at saying the right thing at the right time. His childhood and his education didn't give him these skills. He may feel them, but he's handicapped just as surely as a guy without an arm.

 

To be honest with you, a huge percentage of men are similarly handicapped. Sure we have the skills (well, most of us anyway) for the short sprint during the courting stage but lots of men have been conditioned to see marriage is a done deal, whereas wives don't see it as closure. The smart ones learn to adapt.

 

I think you have the basis for a good relationship, but for the lack of his expression of affection, affirmation of your beauty in his eyes, and romantic pursuit of you. I understand how frustrating it is and how important they are to you and to all women. And without it, the relationship will surely die.

 

But these are learnable skills, unlike ambition, work ethics, loyalty, basic decency, all of which your husband appears to possess.

 

Would you be open-minded to approach the MC with these needs in mind and ask your husband to work on them? The MC can help by impressing upon him that these needs of yours are not trivial, as important as his needs to feel respected and admired.

 

DON'T THINK OF HIS LEARNING THEM AS HE'S FAKING IT AND IT'S NOT FROM HIM. IT MAY VERY WELL BE THAT IT'S ALL BOTTLED UP INSIDE, AND HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS THEM, AND HE NEEDS TO JUST LEARN TO FIRST CRAWL, AND THEN WALK.

 

A basic good and decent person is not easy to find . . . Just think about it.

 

your post really resonates with me and you wrote it beautifully. I am glad that I find this board.

 

Knowing him for 11 years, I think he simply doesn't know (hence the letter). He cares about me more than he cares about anyone else and like you said, it's not easy to find a good man. I've seen marriage with a great sex but it lacks a lot of foundation. After all the orgasms & passions spent, we are back to realities that there is simply billls to pay, dirty dishes don't disappear by themselves, and various family matters.

 

Last night, he asked for forgiveness. He said he will learn to love me, he wants to gain it back, and I was stubborn, I told him that love is a spontaneous thing, the spark should be there, not learned.

 

I hope he chose Marriage Counselling because I can't teach him without having my own bias and emotions get in the way. We need someone neutral to guide us on how to regain things what we used to have in the beginning of the marriage.

 

Toodamnpragmatic is correct. Right now, he said the reasons of all these are because the work stress and the long commute. Before it's because of the long distance relationship. I pointed out to him that a lof of couples are faced with the same situation, if not more (think about when the kids come). Work stress will not go away as long as you work for other people and you have mortgage to pay. Long commute is a norm for people living in our area (the priciest real estate in the United States). But they manage, they still have sex often, they have kids, they don't put their life on hold because all of these. I think there is something deeper but he doesn't see it yet.

 

I said my piece and now, I hope he gives some to me. I want to save my marriage but I can't do it alone.

Edited January 25, 2010 by cuppa

[Toodamnpragmatic]

give him a chance, but also be honest with him and don't let him squirm off the hook. Give him a time frame and expectations. Otherwise he will fail and bring you down with him....

 

Also quit looking for those little nuggets you say he does that proves he "loves" you. Frankly he has not done anything mammoth to this point and probably sees you as needy, knowing his little gestures are so effective. I'm still pissed he let you sleep alone after the letter and basically ignored you.

 

Good luck... I really am hoping the best for you.

[unreadbook]

Unfortunately, not to be negative, but I think you ar ein love with the 'idea of him'...there are things you like, but the main foundation of that love is missing...the core simular interests are just not there...passion? children....?? Honey, you will never be happy unless you are fufilled.

 

If you have children with this man- will he be a good dad 24/7 and be as passionate w/ the children? Most likely not. You will be burnt out caring for children with no reprief because there is no one to give you passionate moments to ease your stress....DONT have children with this man. it makes it harder to leave if you ever get to that point, and it seems liek you may be there....

 

I would look into broadening your horizons...dont compromise your true self happiness for anyone...

 

Have you looked int asperger's syndrome...?? It is a social disorder usually only people who are attempting a 24/7 intimate meaningful relationship will ever notice. This all sounds so familiar with my spouce...he makes promises...deep sincere ones that make me cry and gullibaly fall for him again and again even though he never changes a single thing. His reasons or excuses never make sense. Alot of things just dont add up. I have researched alot on asperger's as my brother has it...I believe my husband is mildly effected as well (when you include other red flags/quirks)...

 

good luck

Edited January 26, 2010 by unreadbook

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I am the hopeless romantic of the bunch...

 

You have NEVER seen him cry before!

 

He claims performance anxiety - TOTALLY BELIEVABLE.

 

He knows may of his mistakes, he does not deny or deflect or otherwise dodge the responsibilities.

 

He asked for forgiveness! Amazing.

 

Learning to Love you - that could be interpreted in many ways; including learning to be sexually intimate again; ie. making love.

 

I admire his ability to tell you that he did not communicate on Thanksgiving because he does not want to speak from emotion and regret saying inappropriate things - that is WONDERFUL trait for a man to have.

 

I honestly have no idea where your relationship will go in the long run, but I personally have good vibes regarding many things that are happening.

 

As others have said, do not be easy and forgiving without expectation. Do forgive, and work to make things right. But things cannot go on like they have for so long. I firmly believe that it's highly likely the two of you can work through this.

 

If you think you can make this work, or if you think you can't, YOU'RE RIGHT!

 

Good Luck again...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I am the hopeless romantic of the bunch...

 

You have NEVER seen him cry before!

 

He claims performance anxiety - TOTALLY BELIEVABLE.

 

He knows may of his mistakes, he does not deny or deflect or otherwise dodge the responsibilities.

 

He asked for forgiveness! Amazing.

 

Learning to Love you - that could be interpreted in many ways; including learning to be sexually intimate again; ie. making love.

 

I admire his ability to tell you that he did not communicate on Thanksgiving because he does not want to speak from emotion and regret saying inappropriate things - that is WONDERFUL trait for a man to have.

 

I honestly have no idea where your relationship will go in the long run, but I personally have good vibes regarding many things that are happening.

 

As others have said, do not be easy and forgiving without expectation. Do forgive, and work to make things right. But things cannot go on like they have for so long. I firmly believe that it's highly likely the two of you can work through this.

 

If you think you can make this work, or if you think you can't, YOU'RE RIGHT!

 

Good Luck again...

 

if you fall for that crap.... It is simply coming from someone who needs help in communicating his emosions and always covering up his ISSUES.

 

Performance anxiety!!!! More crap... They had a very good sex life for years. Performance anxiety comes from two things, not getting it up, which he had a problem in one of the posts, which means he needs a checkup or more insidious, when someone is quick on the draw. This then only becomes a problem if he refuses to service her to completion first or she tells him that he sucks...... I doubt Cuppa for a second has done this.

 

I guess it is so out of my thought process, as I am a male and asked it over and over from females, that if a woman orgasms the sex must at least not be bad.... So the question Cuppa is whether your husband has a real hang up about sex, because I speak I think for all males when I say orgasms are pretty damn good..... Or are his hang-ups all about having children, which takes the issue to another level.... to which I say, how about him wearing a condom, this is the 21st century......

[HeyThere]

You go girl! I think you’re feeling better about the path ahead.

[Angel1111]

Unfortunately, not to be negative, but I think you ar ein love with the 'idea of him'...there are things you like, but the main foundation of that love is missing...the core simular interests are just not there.

 

The above words are extremely profound.

[nddb]

your post really resonates with me and you wrote it beautifully. I am glad that I find this board.

 

 

Thanks for being gracious even though I know you have a lot on your mind. I mean it.

 

...

Last night, he asked for forgiveness. He said he will learn to love me, he wants to gain it back, and I was stubborn, I told him that love is a spontaneous thing, the spark should be there, not learned.

 

I'm not sure cuppa. You may be thinking of the expression of love versus love itself. Since you straddle two cultures, you know that people in different cultures express love differently and we humans are more conditioned (i.e., absorb by learning) by culture than we realize.

 

It may be that your expectation of those expressions are not well-matched by your husband (whose expectation may be, as you say, work hard, don't cheat, don't drink, don't gamble, etc.) whereas you long for emotional intimacy through frequent shared talks and shared secrets, closeness, frequent evidence from him that you still "rock his world" and his continuing wooing you. And you want him to WANT to do it on his own, not guilted or trained into it.

 

Keep in mind that all humans, especially us guys, all learn how to love and how to express it from somewhere. We have this instinct to love and protect, but how to express that love--that's something we learn.

 

Some of us had good role models, but not everyone is similarly situated. I'm sure absent the role models I've had and the learnings I've had, it's easy to fall back into being distant, closed, unemotional, and cold. None of us were born with these skills, trust me.

 

It's been said that love is a verb and a decision. I hope he sees your concerns and decides to give himself to you in a way that is satisfying for both of you. If that's true (and none of us strangers on this board know for sure whether that's true), I also hope that you decide to give him a chance to learn how to give himself to you in a new way that hasn't happened before--one that works for both of you.

 

Best wishes.

[cuppa]

if you fall for that crap.... It is simply coming from someone who needs help in communicating his emosions and always covering up his ISSUES.

 

Performance anxiety!!!! More crap... They had a very good sex life for years. Performance anxiety comes from two things, not getting it up, which he had a problem in one of the posts, which means he needs a checkup or more insidious, when someone is quick on the draw. This then only becomes a problem if he refuses to service her to completion first or she tells him that he sucks...... I doubt Cuppa for a second has done this.

 

 

Toodamnpragmatic, I might be biased but if it's not my own situation, I do find it romantic. For someone as cold as him, someone with a few emotion, again, it's very telling that he cares so much about our relationship for him to shed any tears at all. Like I said, he's taught since early on to surpress his feelings so I've never seen him crying before in our 11 years together.

 

Regarding performance anxiety, I used to think of this as a possiblity and then somehow, I didn't think much of it. In the early days, he cared more about me being satisfied then about himself. Like for example, when we eat out, we both try to order different food and if he thinks I like the other one better, he would not eat them and give them to me. I know you hate this small story but like when I was with my ex, he didn't think about sharing food with me even though he knows that's my fave while for my husband, he always cares about me first and he would rather eat something that I don't like (because he said he's not picky).

 

So back to the performance story, 4 - 5 years ago, he had issues with cramping. He cramped out when he played basketball (like 2 or 3 major incidents where his body simply couldn't move). So for a while, evertytime we attempted to be intimate, he had to stop in the middle due to cramping. This actually messed up my psyche too because even now, everytime we did it, I am always worried that he will cramp out and I am worried that he would feel dissappointed at himself also (because I can take care of myself). So this could be the problem although now, I think I have the same problem too. I shut down, I realized that I haven't had orgasms for the last 7 years and today, I couldn't even kiss him on the lips. So now, not only him having the issue, I might have the issue too (though hopefully this is temporary).

 

I guess it is so out of my thought process, as I am a male and asked it over and over from females, that if a woman orgasms the sex must at least not be bad.... So the question Cuppa is whether your husband has a real hang up about sex, because I speak I think for all males when I say orgasms are pretty damn good..... Or are his hang-ups all about having children, which takes the issue to another level.... to which I say, how about him wearing a condom, this is the 21st century......

 

But toodamnpragmatic, I'm very sensual in nature. In the early days, I could get orgasms 2 or 3 times no problem. No, I just simply couldn't do it, no matter how hard he tries so yes, I have to fake it to spare his feelings. Do I still love sex? Yes, I do but orgasms is not something that I have in mind now, I am just craving for intimacy & closeness.

 

Now, for male, think about it. Women can fake it but men can't. So after a few days, I am more emphatic to my husband's dilemma.

 

So, to answer your question, I know a lot of women who simply can't get orgasms from sex so I think maybe your wife fake it. Another thing is that I notice how you hate the small story....but correct me if I'm wrong, to some women, little things matter. The fact that you clean the dishes and take care the kids while you have her relax and have time to herself for example, it's probably the best foreplay for her, give her more energy rather than the typical foreplay in your early days. Just throwing out there because it seems that maybe we can help each other due to our circumstances.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Toodamnpragmatic, I might be biased but if it's not my own situation, I do find it romantic. For someone as cold as him, someone with a few emotion, again, it's very telling that he cares so much about our relationship for him to shed any tears at all. Like I said, he's taught since early on to surpress his feelings so I've never seen him crying before in our 11 years together.

 

Regarding performance anxiety, I used to think of this as a possiblity and then somehow, I didn't think much of it. In the early days, he cared more about me being satisfied then about himself. Like for example, when we eat out, we both try to order different food and if he thinks I like the other one better, he would not eat them and give them to me. I know you hate this small story but like when I was with my ex, he didn't think about sharing food with me even though he knows that's my fave while for my husband, he always cares about me first and he would rather eat something that I don't like (because he said he's not picky).

 

So back to the performance story, 4 - 5 years ago, he had issues with cramping. He cramped out when he played basketball (like 2 or 3 major incidents where his body simply couldn't move). So for a while, evertytime we attempted to be intimate, he had to stop in the middle due to cramping. This actually messed up my psyche too because even now, everytime we did it, I am always worried that he will cramp out and I am worried that he would feel dissappointed at himself also (because I can take care of myself). So this could be the problem although now, I think I have the same problem too. I shut down, I realized that I haven't had orgasms for the last 7 years and today, I couldn't even kiss him on the lips. So now, not only him having the issue, I might have the issue too (though hopefully this is temporary).

 

 

 

But toodamnpragmatic, I'm very sensual in nature. In the early days, I could get orgasms 2 or 3 times no problem. No, I just simply couldn't do it, no matter how hard he tries so yes, I have to fake it to spare his feelings. Do I still love sex? Yes, I do but orgasms is not something that I have in mind now, I am just craving for intimacy & closeness.

 

Now, for male, think about it. Women can fake it but men can't. So after a few days, I am more emphatic to my husband's dilemma.

 

So, to answer your question, I know a lot of women who simply can't get orgasms from sex so I think maybe your wife fake it. Another thing is that I notice how you hate the small story....but correct me if I'm wrong, to some women, little things matter. The fact that you clean the dishes and take care the kids while you have her relax and have time to herself for example, it's probably the best foreplay for her, give her more energy rather than the typical foreplay in your early days. Just throwing out there because it seems that maybe we can help each other due to our circumstances.

 

Certainly changes a lot.... Will write more, just wanted to let you know that I do feel bad and obviously some of my post was based on incorrect assumptions.....

[cuppa]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just want to give updates that my husband opted for counseling last night and he will seek individual counseling as well. We start collecting list of marriage counselors and hope to go to our first session next week. We will do check every 1.5 month to see where we are.

 

I'm feeling very happy at the moment. We also kiss & are affectionate last night although I can't bring myself to do it all the way. So I think we will take it slow and make our marriage as our priority and slowly making it as the first priority (in addition to mortgage, workstress, etc).

 

I know many people are on the same boat, just remember to keep the balance between glass half full and glass half empty. I'll be off this board for a while as I need to give this 100%.

 

Best wishes and thanks for the support.

 

Cheers,

Cuppa