Keyloggers

[scorpmale009]

well it's your own medicine...why didn't you try it then.????

[reboot]

Yes I asked. What's your point?

[Samantha0905]

I think I've made my point. Affairs are bad for a marriage. Key loggers and P.I's are just as bad for a marriage. It all reeks of mistrust.

 

There's no need to address the presumptuousness of how someone would respond when the question hasn't been asked. We all know what assuming does.

[scorpmale009]

that sums it up to you do not want to tell the truth(you can twist 100 turns, that is what you mean)...so whats the option we are left with snoop to find the truth

 

people make their living over Key loggers and P.I's ....Affairs suck the life out of people involved

Edited January 20, 2010 by scorpmale009

[jwi71]

The slippery slope towards divorce.

 

The slippery slope towards divorce begins with an unfulfilling M.

Now, the partners in question then have a choice...address it or start down the slippery slope. And even addressing it may not save it.

 

And obviously having an A does little to improve the M.

 

Nothing was really directed at you other than the "Ask?" part. Yes, if my husband asks me I will respond as to whether I'm having an affair or not.

 

Then you would be one of the VERY rare few who would.

Why don't you preempt the question and tell him?

IF we all agree an A is symptomatic of an unhappy M, the how does doing NOTHING to "fix" the M actually help it? Wouldn't telling him do "something"? You'll be interested to know that the initial reaction a BS has is usually to NOT file for D immediately. An effort, however genuine, is made to save the M. And if you your M recovers then the unhappy M has ended and replaced with a happy one.

 

Obviously getting divorced ends the unhappy M too.

 

Either way YOU win...you're out of an unhappy M.

 

Anyway, I think the first plan of action for a spouse if they suspect their spouse is cheating is to ask them if they are cheating. If they respond and the spouse feels they are lying -- perhaps counseling?

 

Would you confess the A in MC? When the MC asks why you are there...what do you say? When the MC asks outright if either of you is having an A...would you say "yes"?

 

Are you in MC? Has he/she asked? What did you say?

 

And in more general terms...plenty of MM/MW in MC who have NOT told the MC about it. Again...the impetus is on the WS. Barring that, the WS must EXPECT this "invasion of privacy".

 

Something is definitely going wrong with the marriage. If counseling isn't wanted -- just leave the person if you don't trust them.

 

Well obviously...the WS is having an A.

It seems like you lost sight of that Samantha...the M isn't in trouble because of "spying"...its in trouble because one person is UNFAITHFUL.

Seems like the cart before the horse in a sense...

 

And yes, if the M is so broken...leave...I would say the same to you..if your M isn't making you happy...leave it. Because, the implication is, your H trusts you enough to NOT ask - and you are abusing that with lies (of omission)

 

Not attacking you...just pointing some issues I see with your posts...

[Samantha0905]

Thanks. I wasn't taking your posts as an attack. I simply think spying or affairs have no place in a marriage. If you suspect your spouse of having an affair, I think communication would be the answer -- not spying. It's like doing an underhanded thing because you think your spouse is doing an underhanded thing. Tit for tat.

 

I will not tell my husband of my affair unless he finds out or asks. I see no reason to hurt him any more. And before anyone jumps in and says I'm just CYA, that part is true also -- I'd rather not continue to purposefully hurt him and I'd rather not see his love for me change.

 

We went to counseling once after 10 years of marriage. I'm not sure I feel like marriage counseling helped any. I do see merits in individual counseling and have thought about getting some for myself.

 

As far as getting someone to communicate who just is NOT a good communicator (my spouse), that's a difficult task. His mother and father were/are that way, his siblings are that way. He's that way. It's the most "shush" closed mouth family I've ever seen. I married him at 21 and did not pick up on that in the way I would now.

 

Anyway -- I don't want to TJ -- I just don't think the spying thing is a good idea at all. If someone is bound and determined to get divorced and thinks the spying will help them with child custody -- well, then I guess they should take care of themselves. I don't know enough about state laws to know whether or not it would be an issue.

[scorpmale009]

wow.....hypocrisy at it's heights

[herenow]

wow.....hypocrisy at it's heights

 

So very right.

 

If my H spied on me, I would take is as a sign that he was insecure about our relationship. I would feel the need to assure him that I wasn't doing anything wrong and I would have no problem with him continuing to "spy" until he feels comfortable. I say this because I have nothing to hide.

 

If a person does have something to hide, like an affair, I can't blame the BS for doing whoever they need to find the truth. It is ludicrous to say that the person who is having an affair is being violated if their spouses have to resort to "spy" to find the truth. If you (the general you) are so concerned about your BS finding the truth, and you feel that "spying" is an invasion of your privacy, maybe you shouldn't be married. Or at least be honest so that there wouldn't be a reason to spy.

 

Sure affairs are bad for a marriage, but lies are sometimes worse. For all the people here who say that PI's and keyloggers are wrong, why don't you just be honest? And there would be no need for such invasive wrong doing.

[crazycatlady]

Checking the phone messages and text messages and maybe email is insecure. Keylogging IMO is attempting to control the other person and is not justified. I might could see the case where it helped with custody etc otherwise, not only no but hell no. Or if the spouse is lying about you. But in most cases that simply is not true.

 

I'm not covering my ass. I have nothing to cover it from. I find the whole idea to simply be repulse. I think its domineering and controlling. H doesn't own me. I'm allowed my privacy. Its part of why I feel so amazingly guilty for checking his phone even though my gut bad feeling was correct. Because his betrayal of my trust does not mean I have the right to betray his trust. And he trusts me to respect his privacy. I don't own him any more then he owns me. I have no right to look. I have the right to confront him and her. If I don't believe the answer, I have the right to leave or say that I don't believe the answer. And a keylogged is way way way more then just checking the phone.

 

Ugh....gives me the willies just thinking about it. Way to controling.

 

CCL

[pureinheart]

Checking the phone messages and text messages and maybe email is insecure. Keylogging IMO is attempting to control the other person and is not justified. I might could see the case where it helped with custody etc otherwise, not only no but hell no. Or if the spouse is lying about you. But in most cases that simply is not true.

 

I'm not covering my ass. I have nothing to cover it from. I find the whole idea to simply be repulse. I think its domineering and controlling. H doesn't own me. I'm allowed my privacy. Its part of why I feel so amazingly guilty for checking his phone even though my gut bad feeling was correct. Because his betrayal of my trust does not mean I have the right to betray his trust. And he trusts me to respect his privacy. I don't own him any more then he owns me. I have no right to look. I have the right to confront him and her. If I don't believe the answer, I have the right to leave or say that I don't believe the answer. And a keylogged is way way way more then just checking the phone.

 

Ugh....gives me the willies just thinking about it. Way to controling.

 

CCL

 

Totally agree...man who has the time for all of that anyway, and the emotion, torment...OMG. Whatever will happen, will in fact happen....and if one wants to "intervine" why not do something positive with all of that energy...

 

If you suspect your S is cheating rekindle the love that possibly once existed, if that doesnot work then it is over.

 

CCL, just in listening to what you have had to say, I personally don't believe you were trying to be controling, nor nosey as some S's clearly are. You are much different and have a wonderful heart...oh and by the way...COOL TATOO

[pureinheart]

Thanks. I wasn't taking your posts as an attack. I simply think spying or affairs have no place in a marriage. If you suspect your spouse of having an affair, I think communication would be the answer -- not spying. It's like doing an underhanded thing because you think your spouse is doing an underhanded thing. Tit for tat.

 

I will not tell my husband of my affair unless he finds out or asks. I see no reason to hurt him any more. And before anyone jumps in and says I'm just CYA, that part is true also -- I'd rather not continue to purposefully hurt him and I'd rather not see his love for me change.

 

We went to counseling once after 10 years of marriage. I'm not sure I feel like marriage counseling helped any. I do see merits in individual counseling and have thought about getting some for myself.

 

 

As far as getting someone to communicate who just is NOT a good communicator (my spouse), that's a difficult task. His mother and father were/are that way, his siblings are that way. He's that way. It's the most "shush" closed mouth family I've ever seen. I married him at 21 and did not pick up on that in the way I would now.

 

Anyway -- I don't want to TJ -- I just don't think the spying thing is a good idea at all. If someone is bound and determined to get divorced and thinks the spying will help them with child custody -- well, then I guess they should take care of themselves. I don't know enough about state laws to know whether or not it would be an issue.

 

You know Samantha, no one has the right to judge you, a selfrighteous one will though.

[scorpmale009]

all of you mean to say, if my conscious or gut saying me,that my partner is cheating with out any evidence i should leave her then and there, is it what you are saying....does it make any sense

 

and CCL, in other thread, you said "if you cheat , don't tell"

 

could you please tell me , how would i know if you aren't going to be honest....

 

your privacy is guaranteed until you misuse it...

[OWoman]

Only people with something to hide consider it an invasion of privacy. My computer stays on logged into my email all the time. My spouse could sit down anytime and see exactly what I'm doing, no keylogger required. My cell phone lays around the house where ever I last used it. Pick it up, read the texts, listen to the voice mail, check the history. Wouldn't matter to me. I've never had anything to hide.

 

Not at all! I have nothing to hide, but would consider it a massive invasion of my privacy if that was done to me.

 

Like you, we leave our phones, computers etc lying around. However, we do so because we know there is mutual respect for privacy. If I want to use my H's computer, for whatever reason, I ASK him first, to give him the chance to log out of his email or anything potentially private (he doesn't, but I want him to have the chance in case he does need to).

[Trojan John]

I'm a very private person, but if my wife were to suspect me of cheating on her, I would not fault her for doing anything to find out the truth either way. Certainly, it's indicative of something wrong in the relationship, but it is also my duty to help assuage her doubts and fears as her husband.

 

If I actually were cheating and she took these measures to find out the truth, then chastising her for violating my privacy would be nothing but hypocracy and a very sad attempt on my part to deflect my wrongdoings. You can't claim the moral highground if you're behaving amorally. After all, it would be me who has violated our <<marital privacy>> by inviting another party into it without her consent.

[reboot]

I guess I'm the one that has a weird idea of what marriage is.

 

Someone please explain to me this all consuming need to have everything you do be completely and totally kept from your spouse. This "right" to privacy.

 

Two people become one, that's how I always thought it was supposed to be. Why would I need to have secrets?

 

Sorry, but in my mind, if there's something you can't share with your spouse, it's more than likely inappropriate.

[Trojan John]

I guess I'm the one that has a weird idea of what marriage is.

 

Someone please explain to me this all consuming need to have everything you do be completely and totally kept from your spouse. This "right" to privacy.

 

Two people become one, that's how I always thought it was supposed to be. Why would I need to have secrets?

 

Sorry, but in my mind, if there's something you can't share with your spouse, it's more than likely inappropriate.

 

I completely agree.

[Samantha0905]

T\

 

If you suspect your S is cheating rekindle the love that possibly once existed, if that doesnot work then it is over.

 

CCL, just in listening to what you have had to say, I personally don't believe you were trying to be controling, nor nosey as some S's clearly are. You are much different and have a wonderful heart...oh and by the way...COOL TATOO

 

Totally agree.

 

You know Samantha, no one has the right to judge you, a selfrighteous one will though.

 

I know. I don't spend time being concerned about those people. I'm a positive person and have always felt I should be concerned with getting the beam out of my own eye as opposed to judging others. I suppose some feel they have no "beam(s)" and lash their sword of judgment against others.

 

 

your privacy is guaranteed until you misuse it...

 

You're not the master of someone else's privacy. They have a right to that privacy regardless of what your judgment is of them. If you violate that right, you are in the wrong as much as you may think they are in the wrong.

 

Not at all! I have nothing to hide, but would consider it a massive invasion of my privacy if that was done to me.

 

Like you, we leave our phones, computers etc lying around. However, we do so because we know there is mutual respect for privacy. If I want to use my H's computer, for whatever reason, I ASK him first, to give him the chance to log out of his email or anything potentially private (he doesn't, but I want him to have the chance in case he does need to).

 

I couldn't agree more!!! We all have a right to privacy. It's ridiculous to feel like someone else -- spouse or no -- should have access to your every email, journal entry, etc. It's equivalent to someone reading a private diary of another person's.

[pureinheart]

To me it is a game, not a right of the S ....

 

For the record, a word to the wise, be careful what you try to hack....especially your S's work lap top...you could end up in prison for that one.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

This is the funniest thing I think I've ever read on this site..

The people saying "I have nothing to hide, and it would still bother me"

YES you do have something to hide..you are in an affair. I'm pretty sure "hiding" and secrecy are a huge part of an A. Geeze

A keylogger? an invasion of privacy?? so what do you think about letting a man who is married stick his blank in your blank? thats not invasion of privacy? and don't even pull the whole "I'm not married to her" blah blah blah its still the biggest INVASION on all levels.

[OWoman]

This is the funniest thing I think I've ever read on this site..

The people saying "I have nothing to hide, and it would still bother me"

YES you do have something to hide..you are in an affair. I'm pretty sure "hiding" and secrecy are a huge part of an A. Geeze

 

I'm not in an A. We're married.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

So you didn't have an affair with him?

And you don't have affairs with multiple men?

 

I'm not trying to be rude. I just want to know.

 

I'm making a point that it seems like the people who think its an invasion of privacy have no moral boundaries as far as marriage & relationships go.

[reboot]

I can't figure out what everyone is doing that has to be so private. I must be the most boring man in the world. Stay thirsty my friends.

[Art_Critic]

I'm making a point that it seems like the people who think its an invasion of privacy have no moral boundaries as far as marriage & relationships go.

 

I don't think you can truly make that point...

 

I think it's an invasion of privacy and I'm not a cheater and never will be, I'm on the anti-cheating side.

 

I post in the cheating forums because I grew up in a household with a father that was a serial cheater, so my voice is always for the children of the marriage where affairs have happened kinda giving the children of parents involved in affairs a voice since most people could care less what the children think or feel in those cases.

 

I also don't have anything to hide.. my wife sits by me when I post on LS on most nights that I post from home.

My marriage is based on trust and if the trust ever eroded to the point where I felt the need to invade my wifes privacy by putting a keylogger on her computer or checking her cell phones etc etc.. I can assure you that I would head to divorce court first because to me the marriage would be over regardless if an affair was happening.

 

It seems to me that people think it's okay to spy on their spouse instead of just engaging them in conversation if questions arise.

 

There is such a thing as personal privacy in a marriage and it should be maintained if you respect your spouse..

 

Just becuase 2 people are married doesn't mean they have to know the exact nature of everything the other is doing at all times.

 

My wife takes a shower with the door shut and gets dressed that same way..

I don't just go blowing in there while she is in the shower because she needs that privacy and for me to do so would show her disrespect.

 

I do think though that once an affair is known about and the cheating is out in the open then the cheater has lost their right to SOME of their personal privacy until they work to rebuild the trust they ruined by having an affair.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Art_Critic

[pureinheart]

I guess I'm the one that has a weird idea of what marriage is.

 

Someone please explain to me this all consuming need to have everything you do be completely and totally kept from your spouse. This "right" to privacy.

 

Two people become one, that's how I always thought it was supposed to be. Why would I need to have secrets?

 

Sorry, but in my mind, if there's something you can't share with your spouse, it's more than likely inappropriate.

 

Hi Reboot,

 

With all do respect, yes it is true , "the two shall become one", although (I am basing this on the Bible, non denominational), I don't believe that God was speaking of the loss of identity in this case....We are to be "one" with Him, married to Him, yet we still do not loose our own identity.

 

When there are issues we discuss them, although with God being the center of the M we are to give all things to Him, including our S's. This is where I went wrong, I played God too much in my M and will leave it at that.

 

There are things that I would never want my SO to see, I keep a journal and like that to be privite. I used to email my friend and said things to her that I choose to keep privite.

 

I am very straight forward with my SO....at one point, I got so frustrated at the condition of our R, not knowing where we stood....I call him my SO out of respect because I still don't know where we stand, yet I choose to let that go along with a bunch of anger....anyway....I asked him what were we....he said friends....so I said ok, then if I meet someone that I want to start seeing you are cool with that, right? He said yes. I met someone, and he got pissed...I did not throw it in his face or play games...I think he has a committment problem, which I now completely understand. I realise it was my lack of maturity, thinking I had to have someone or whatever (I really did like this other guy, although in further concersation, I did not want to persue a R) so have decided to chill, work on me, get my sh*t together and have told SO that is my plan....if he starts to put up and shut up, fine, we will be together, if not when I am ready, then oh well.

 

So, yes I do have something that I don't want anyone to see, it is my personal stuff...

[Art_Critic]

I can't figure out what everyone is doing that has to be so private. I must be the most boring man in the world. Stay thirsty my friends.

 

Says the guy who is posting anonymously on an anonymous web forum, privately