I ended up paying more than him on a first date...is that a big no no?

[silverfish]

I've solved this issue for me this way:

 

If I ask a girl out I always pay; but with online dating that can become a bit of a sticking point after several "one and done" dates. It's not the money, and I am chivalrous for sure but it just becomes this little nagging thing after a while. So my first date is usually coffee or frozen yogurt and a walk along the beach or whatever. When it's time to pay I just get my wallet out and pay like no big thang. If the first date leads to a second date, that's usually dinner and I'll pay for that as well. Then she pays for the rest of our relationship! (kidding!)

 

There's been some threads about women who are looking for a free night out, especially with online dating, and I'm not sure if that's the case or not but either way, my way of doing things eradicates both issues.

 

I've never had the 'go dutch' conversation but I guess that'd work too but even that seems kind of wonky to me. It seems to me that by men paying they are giving the date the best possible chance for a good outcome, if one is in the making. Why disadvantage yourself right out of the gate even if seems small; I mean it tanked the OP's second date!

 

Do you girls ever feel any undo pressure when the guy pays to be nicer than you feel when you're bored to death or he is perhaps expecting a good night kiss? Do you bite your tongue a tad when he's a bit of a douche?

 

Not sure if I'd go that far, but I know that I'd feel a little bit more under pressure to see him again. If I had no intention of seeing him again I would definitely insist on paying half.

 

I think in this case, the OP ended up paying more than half...alright it was only £10, but it was their first date! Doesnt bode well for the future really

 

As for the equality thing....thats fine when women are in a postion to work, but at some point if kids come along (if the relationship gets that far), then women need to know that their man can provide and look after her & their children.

[mem11363]

SS,

In hindsight - she had a LOT of positive qualities and I should have overlooked that initial hiccup and gotten to know her better. Maybe after a few dates she would have started pitching in. At 26 I had a more black and white view of the world.

 

 

 

Do you think it's possible that her experiences with dating have shown men to feel intimidated by her success? I'm just curious. I'm not sticking up for her. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Had she been given the second date chance, maybe she would've paid. You'll never know, now. But I would think that if a woman earned more, was more successful than the man, it probably doesn't behoove her to ACT like she's the man and grab the bill. I think it's sad, but that garbage still exists, too (men being intimidated by successful women): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/us/19marriage.html

 

I'm just curious on your thoughts about that - not asking you to defend any actions.

[silverfish]

I think, in most cases, guys should try to get over the notion about women paying on a first date because gals make their own money or they're more independent now or whatever. Yes it may seem fair 'economically' but who said dating was fair? There are a lot of things involved here; biology, gender roles and deeply ingrained courting rituals to name a few. It's about generosity, chivalry, confidence, and the ability to provide and protect (whether actually needed or not). If you think this is not generally accurate, read on line profiles or LS and read what qualities women are looking for. I'm not arguing the fairness of it, just the way things are.

 

As a guy, why not play within the perceived rules of dating as they exist rather than make it an awkward thing. Pay the bill. If she wants to split the bill, politely say that's not necessary. If she insists, let her. But above all, do NOT make an issue of it!

 

Like I said before, make the first date coffee or something casual just to see if there is a prospect for going further; that way you still get to know each other a bit and no one is taking out a loan for dinner and drinks! And more importantly, not putting out a vibe of imposition or cheapness (big turn off!)

 

Some may not agree with my view, but IMO why hamstring yourself before you even get in the game!

 

Agree with all of this....exception to the rule then - what do you do if the woman asks you out?

[conehead]

I hate cheap men! Hate em hate em hate em!

 

Now If I was out and KNEW the guy would not be seeing me again I would probably insist on paying and get out of there and then I would not feel bad for not seeing him again BUT if I really like him and even if he mentioned splitting it, I would not see him again, I would see him as cheap and it would put me off him in an instant!

 

It is totally not about the money it is all about the feeling of being taken out and treated like a lady. To me a guy pays the first few dates and then after that its 50/50

 

That is exactly what I mean!! I did sort of like him and would have gone for a second date, but his ungentlemanly act just really turned me off. Ok, I don't feel bad about rejecting him now....

[OnlyJake]

What is the big deal about the guy paying? Has chivalry died forever?

 

All this "lets split the tip, you got dinner I get dessert" is Bullsh*t!!

 

A man should pay for the first date ... I am not saying a woman is a useless little thing that needs to be paid for but its the thing to do! I am the furthest thing from cheap, I spend money like water and would think nothing of paying for a £200 meal BUT not on the first date (if you both know you will be dating more)

 

How men could embarress themselves by suggesting a split is beyond me

It's similar to this new "why ruin a great relationship over a piece of paper and a ceremony" crap when the girl wants to get married and the guy doesn't, and they've been living together for 10 years and have 2 kids together.

 

Men will only behave as badly as women let them.

[ella23]

I didn't realise it was such a big deal for so many women if the guy didn't pay for the date. To each his/her own I guess.

In the past sometimes the guy paid the whole amount and sometimes I paid half, it didn't really bother me.

[conehead]

Conehead assumes that the guy will call her for a second date, but how funny would it be if he didnt want to pay because HE knew he wouldnt want a second date....and she didnt have to ignore calls that wont come?

 

He already texted me sunday which I ignored. He should have got the hint, but then he calls me again on Sat morning which I ignored again. Not only is he cheap but he is desparate too!

[Stockalone]

What is the big deal about the guy paying? Has chivalry died forever?

 

All this "lets split the tip, you got dinner I get dessert" is Bullsh*t!!

 

I know women who want to pay for at least something, be it the tip, dessert, popcorn/drinks when you go to the movies, etc.

 

They think that if the guy pays for everything that he wants to "buy" them and they also don't want to owe the guy.

 

Personally, I don't mind paying. I am the one who asked them out, so I pay. And I didn't date much anyway, so I never had to worry about a budget. However, I can understand why some men are reluctant to pay for everything.

 

You have women who only want a free meal and some entertainment but have little interest in you. Then there are women who multi-date. And some women don't even thank you for paying. Like a "thanks for dinner" would kill them?

 

If I am expected to be chivalrous, it's certainly not too much to ask for women to behave like a lady.

 

And sometimes, there is a double-standard when it comes to being old-fashioned. If a man pays for dates and also wants a woman to be a SAHM, he is often labeled as a sexist with out-dated views. If a woman expects the man to pay during their courtship, there is nothing wrong with it...

 

As I said, I don't think it is wrong that women expect the guy to pay, but I find the reasoning behind it sometimes rather strange.

 

 

A man should pay for the first date ... I am not saying a woman is a useless little thing that needs to be paid for but its the thing to do! I am the furthest thing from cheap, I spend money like water and would think nothing of paying for a £200 meal BUT not on the first date (if you both know you will be dating more)

 

How men could embarress themselves by suggesting a split is beyond me

 

If a woman offers to pay, she should be prepared for the possibility that the guy accepts her offer.

 

If a woman expects the man to pay, she shouldn't offer to pay. It's that simple.

[Art_Critic]

I think, in most cases, guys should try to get over the notion about women paying on a first date because gals make their own money or they're more independent now or whatever. Yes it may seem fair 'economically' but who said dating was fair? There are a lot of things involved here; biology, gender roles and deeply ingrained courting rituals to name a few. It's about generosity, chivalry, confidence, and the ability to provide and protect (whether actually needed or not). If you think this is not generally accurate, read on line profiles or LS and read what qualities women are looking for. I'm not arguing the fairness of it, just the way things are.

 

As a guy, why not play within the perceived rules of dating as they exist rather than make it an awkward thing. Pay the bill. If she wants to split the bill, politely say that's not necessary. If she insists, let her. But above all, do NOT make an issue of it!

 

Like I said before, make the first date coffee or something casual just to see if there is a prospect for going further; that way you still get to know each other a bit and no one is taking out a loan for dinner and drinks! And more importantly, not putting out a vibe of imposition or cheapness (big turn off!)

 

Some may not agree with my view, but IMO why hamstring yourself before you even get in the game!

 

Well put Rainman

[Jersey Shortie]

I really don't get women sometimes... are you working? are you making your own money... why should the men pay all the time or pay more??????

 

Why do we (women) has to be the 'submissive' or 'dependant' on the men all the time.. why can't we be financially secure and independant... and treat the guys sometimes...

 

$10 is nothing... if you don,t like the guy.. end it... but if you like him.. I don't see the big deal..

I don't understand what the fact that women work and make their own money has to do with it to be honest. Or submissiveness and independence has to do with this issue. The OP seems quite independent.

 

This type of situation has nothing to do with our abillty to pay or wanting to be dependent on a man. And because of that, it's not an issue of money but of chiverly.

 

Biologically, women are programmed to be on the look out for a mate that will happily share his resources. They want to know that a man will not be stingy. A stingy mate that hords his resources is not a good long term partner for protection and security. Men do not have the same biological drive in this regards. So it's easy to see why it's such a turn off for many women. Now Lizzie, I've seen you many times defend men in the name of biology. So why turn your back on biology now.

 

It matters how someone treats us. Especially on first dates where people are suppose to be on the best behavior. If I paid for dinner, of my own accord with a man, and then he didn't even make a sincere offer to pay for desert, it doesn't take a scientist to see why that's unattractive behavior.

 

Now the men here can throw mini-hissy fits and say that women are evil people and all they care about is money but the truth is, it's clear that men care just as much about money to be offended in the first place. So it's okay for men to care about money but it's not okay for women to? It's okay for men to pick women based on their looks but it's not okay to judge men on other shallow factors like their money and how they deal with it or share it or don't share it?

 

OP, I wouldn't be too excited to go out with this guy again either. Find a guy that has better class then this.

[O'Malley]

 

As a guy, why not play within the perceived rules of dating as they exist rather than make it an awkward thing. Pay the bill. If she wants to split the bill, politely say that's not necessary. If she insists, let her. But above all, do NOT make an issue of it!

 

Like I said before, make the first date coffee or something casual just to see if there is a prospect for going further; that way you still get to know each other a bit and no one is taking out a loan for dinner and drinks! And more importantly, not putting out a vibe of imposition or cheapness (big turn off!)

 

Very insightful post; grappling for the check is a situation to avoid. I tend to look at this from a perspective of general etiquette -- that I wouldn't invite a date/friend/relative out, plan the activity and then have expectations of them chipping in. However, if the other person is adamant about paying the tip, I'll let it go rather than make an argument of it. Someone who never reciprocates or is unwilling to chip is another topic.

 

If there's a sense of expectation or begrudgement from the person who invited me (something I've not personally come across) it's someone I wouldn't enjoy spending any further time with. I will make a firm offer to split the bill or pay some portion if I determine I'm not interested in another date; I feel more comfortable handling it that way.

[Lizzie60]

I agree with Rain... why go on an expensive first date...

 

It is completely ridiculous IMO to go for a dinner on a first date... why not just a coffee or simply a walk in the park... nothing too complicated... just to see if there is a connection..

[Art_Critic]

what do you do if the woman asks you out?

 

That is easy for me to answer... I have always paid...

 

Who cares who asks who out and why should that create the rules ?

This isn't just friends here..

It's about dating, courting and putting your best foot forward to make a good impression no matter what the circumstances, why risk being cheap so you can save a few bucks ?

[Rainman760]

Agree with all of this....exception to the rule then - what do you do if the woman asks you out?

 

When a woman asks me out it would probably send a signal to me that she has a more liberal view of traditional dating, i.e. boy asks girl out, etc. That would logically lead me to believe that she would be comfortable with paying. But I would still want to pay since one, she had the cojones to do the asking and two, for the reasons I wrote upthread. If a girl asks a guy out it doesn't mean she isn't still looking for the same qualities if he asked her, she just had the confidence to do it. If she insisted on paying I would offer the tip, coffee, desert, whatever; again not making a big deal out of it. But regardless of what happened on the first date, if it led to a second, that would be on me; no argument! I suppose it would boil down to that specific situation and by reading the signals.

[BWLoca]

Who cares who asks who out and why should that create the rules ?

This isn't just friends here..

It's about dating, courting and putting your best foot forward to make a good impression no matter what the circumstances, why risk being cheap so you can save a few bucks ?

 

I agree with this. I just wouldn't write the guy off as cheap just yet. Reading the original post, it seems like the OP immediately went for her purse to pay as if she was offering first, just to test him.

[Orchid8]

I really don't get women sometimes... are you working? are you making your own money... why should the men pay all the time or pay more??????

 

Why do we (women) has to be the 'submissive' or 'dependant' on the men all the time.. why can't we be financially secure and independant... and treat the guys sometimes...

 

$10 is nothing... if you don,t like the guy.. end it... but if you like him.. I don't see the big deal..

 

Who said guys should pay ALL the time?! It's a FIRST date! First dates are always about making good impressions on both sides. How is he making a good one if he's being cheap and taking his time reaching for the dough?! This guy is supposed to be woo'ing her and courting her so that she would be interested in seeing him again but instead, he came off as cheap and it turned her off.

 

I think on the first few dates, a guy should be a gentleman and pay. And if they continue to keep seeing each other, then perhaps she could offer and pay sometimes or even suggest to cook him a nice meal (at least that is what I would do).

[conehead]

I agree with this. I just wouldn't write the guy off as cheap just yet. Reading the original post, it seems like the OP immediately went for her purse to pay as if she was offering first, just to test him.

 

If I really was going to offer, which I do after the first date with a guy, I'd grab my purse and say off the bat 'let me get it this time'.

 

But during this particular date, I waited a while before getting my purse and I did it REALLY SLOWLY. While for him, I"ve never seen a guy go for his wallet so slowly! No doubt about it, I"ve been on dates, and this guy had the intention to make me pay. You weren't there so you didn't see it, but he let me put my card in the flap, while I said nothing about me getting it. It was only until my card was in there for 5 seconds did he offer to split and by that time it was just beyond awkward and I was so disgusted by his behavior that I was just like screw it I'll just pay...I only offerred to get it because HE LOOKED LIKE HE DIDNT WANT TO and because of that I figured I'd just get the bill so I won't owe him anythng since I was so turned off that I really had no intention of seeing him again due to his behavior.

Edited January 19, 2010 by conehead

[conehead]

Who said guys should pay ALL the time?! It's a FIRST date! First dates are always about making good impressions on both sides. How is he making a good one if he's being cheap and taking his time reaching for the dough?! This guy is supposed to be woo'ing her and courting her so that she would be interested in seeing him again but instead, he came off as cheap and it turned her off.

 

I think on the first few dates, a guy should be a gentleman and pay. And if they continue to keep seeing each other, then perhaps she could offer and pay sometimes or even suggest to cook him a nice meal (at least that is what I would do).

 

Thank you! I don't use guys for money. And in fact after the first date I do start paying too and I also spend alot of time/money on hoilday/birthday gifts for my sweetie. The paying usually comes down to 60:40 or 70:30 once in a relationship...and the guy usually does make more money than me.

[Lishy]

Ahhh well you see my opinion is based upon myself. For one I would not go out on a date just for the sake of it, I have to like the guy to go in the first place. I am not a multi dater and do not expect a guy to look after me in any way. I am totally self sufficiant and make my own choices

 

To me a first date is make or break, if that guy does things I do not like in that date I am offski! Now the OP went on a date and the GUY suggested that,after paying for dinner, they went for dessert ... HE suggested it and HE let her pay for it! That is low class and I would do just as she did and not answer his calls. No debate, no question.

 

Not because I am some womens libber who wants equality on one level and wants pandering on another ... to me it is basic manners and I like a guy who is not cheap, I act like a lady and expect to be treated like one. I dont do first date sex and I am not after a casual dating situation and after that date I would pay the whole amount of the dates no problem..

 

so to all you guys who suggest splitting or allow the woman to pay on the first date YOU ARE CHEAP!! No excuse, no debate and cheapness is foul!

 

Mind you I am sure there are many girls who dont mind, I just do!

 

OP, you did the right thing!

 

Note to the boys .... You never get a second chance to make a first impression!!!

[silverfish]

If I really was going to offer, which I do after the first date with a guy, I'd grab my purse and say off the bat 'let me get it this time'.

 

But during this particular date, I waited a while before getting my purse and I did it REALLY SLOWLY. While for him, I"ve never seen a guy go for his wallet so slowly! No doubt about it, I"ve been on dates, and this guy had the intention to make me pay. You weren't there so you didn't see it, but he let me put my card in the flap, while I said nothing about me getting it. It was only until my card was in there for 5 seconds did he offer to split and by that time it was just beyond awkward and I was so disgusted by his behavior that I was just like screw it I'll just pay...I only offerred to get it because HE LOOKED LIKE HE DIDNT WANT TO and because of that I figured I'd just get the bill so I won't owe him anythng since I was so turned off that I really had no intention of seeing him again due to his behavior.

 

I totally understand what you mean...I went out with a guy who used to do the whole 'ladies first' thing when we were walking into a bar for a drink, and let me (regularly) get the first round of drinks in. I found it extremely annoying and a bit immature.

[Rainman760]

While for him, I"ve never seen a guy go for his wallet so slowly!

 

Lol.. That's called "alligator arm syndrome" where your spindly little arms can't reach your back pocket!

 

Conehead, your dates behavior has been my point all along. He blew any chance he had for a second date by his cheap and awkward handling of the bill.

 

My points:

 

1. This cheap, "not paying the bill" issue is readily and widely known.

2. Avoid doing this.

[BWLoca]

If I really was going to offer, which I do after the first date with a guy, I'd grab my purse and say off the bat 'let me get it this time'.

 

But during this particular date, I waited a while before getting my purse and I did it REALLY SLOWLY. While for him, I"ve never seen a guy go for his wallet so slowly! No doubt about it, I"ve been on dates, and this guy had the intention to make me pay. You weren't there so you didn't see it, but he let me put my card in the flap, while I said nothing about me getting it. It was only until my card was in there for 5 seconds did he offer to split and by that time it was just beyond awkward and I was so disgusted by his behavior that I was just like screw it I'll just pay...I only offerred to get it because HE LOOKED LIKE HE DIDNT WANT TO and because of that I figured I'd just get the bill so I won't owe him anythng since I was so turned off that I really had no intention of seeing him again due to his behavior.

 

 

I was just wondering if you read his intentions or behaviors correctly. I go by the 70:30 rule myself and don't bother offering until after 3 dates, unless I'm no longer interested.

 

The only difference is that when he half-heartedly offered to pay half, I would've let him. Or when I saw him slowly reaching for his wallet, would've stopped reaching for my purse.

[Lishy]

You see men with short arms and long pockets are not attractive! It is not about the amount of money paid, it is all about the willingness to treat the lady like a lady!

 

Respect the bit*h lol

[conehead]

I totally understand what you mean...I went out with a guy who used to do the whole 'ladies first' thing when we were walking into a bar for a drink, and let me (regularly) get the first round of drinks in. I found it extremely annoying and a bit immature.

 

Yes! Some people on this thread are saying 'if you dont want to pay, then dont offer', but it's not like we are really offerring! Technically we end up paying but only because the guys are doing stupid moves like the 'ladies first' thing and 'taking out the wallet slowly and offering to split a minute later'.

[Johnny M]

So we had a first date Saturday night. For dinner, the bill came out to be $35, which he offered to pay which was nice. Then we went to get desert and drinks. The bill came out to be $45. I slowly went for my purse to see if he'd offer to pay. He slowly went for his wallet too lol. And I mean I was really slow, but he didn't seem keen on paying, so I opened up my purse and put my card in the bill while he watched me fiddle with the broken flap. I put the bill on the table THEN he takes out his card and was like 'want to split it'? At that point, it was just awkward since I already put in my card so I just said 'no it's fine I'll get it'. He thanked me. Eventhough he offered to split, he wasn't sincere about it. He texted me the day after and called me this morning. But to be honest, I was pretty turned off that I ended up paying more than him on our first date. Is this a yay or nay??

I can't believe how cheap you are