Meeting the BS

[whichwayisup]

Go read my advice and what i said, as well as others in your previous thread "Getting too close."

 

You admitted in that thread you were developing feelings for him but intended to keep things on the straight and narrow, not let anything happen between you two.

 

So, it IS possible that he has feelings for you as well and his wife isn't stupid. She may have seen a certain energy between you two, a look, a glance, even if it meant nothing - To HER it could be something to worry about and feel threatened by.

 

Since you last posted about him, have you backed off abit more? Or do you two email, talk alot at home and outside of work hours too? Have you gone out with him one on one?

[BurriedAlive]

Go read my advice and what i said, as well as others in your previous thread "Getting too close."

 

You admitted in that thread you were developing feelings for him but intended to keep things on the straight and narrow, not let anything happen between you two.

 

So, it IS possible that he has feelings for you as well and his wife isn't stupid. She may have seen a certain energy between you two, a look, a glance, even if it meant nothing - To HER it could be something to worry about and feel threatened by.

 

Since you last posted about him, have you backed off abit more? Or do you two email, talk alot at home and outside of work hours too? Have you gone out with him one on one?

 

We have lunch about once a week and he calls me 2 or 3 times a day. I would say there is less contact outside of work than when I posted in September. I cannot remember the last time I contacted him on a weekend or weeknight outside of work. He is the one to initiate this contact when it happens. I often make a point of not contacting him to see how long it will last but he always is the first one to email or call me.

 

Surely she does feel threatened...there is no doubt about that. I can put myself in her shoes and I would probably feel threatened if I were her. She is 16 years older than me (5 years older than MM) and I know they both want children very baddly but can't have any (because of her age???). I don't think they have been married that long (I think about 5 to 7 years). Over the xmas holidays he joined facebook (which he used to say he thought was stupid) and requested me to be his friend. When I accepted, he had 1 other friend (W's sister). Then W became his friend (she joined fb after I became his friend) and still only has him and her three sisters as friends! It is all very obvious....he makes comments about things he sees on my fb and pictures (like "cute picture of you and your son"). In fact I think he only joined because of me and she only joined because of him being friends with me! Anyway, it is all so weird....

[RedDevil66]

yes, all very weird

[OWoman]

Have you ever been in a room with your MM and his W? If so, how did she act? How did he act?

 

I "met" the BW only when she was already the xW, only once, when my H and I attended a school function where his kids were performing. She happened to be there too, and stared at me throughout, and threw a hissy fit with my H afterward. We just ignored her throughout - not rudely, but the way one doesn't invest in interacting with random people one happens to be in the same space with. We spoke with the kids, with teachers and with parents of te kids' friends that we knew. She now makes a point of trying to avoid us, which is fine by me, as her appalling behaviour just stresses the kids out, and my H feels he needs to "explain" her tantrums to the kids so that they don't think too badly of her

[jj33]

I was 2x - it was after it was technically over but we were still dancing around a way to make it work.... she was charming and lovely (because she is in a cold polite this is what I do kind of way) and I was unbelievably nervous and babbling - he was off somewhere being a host when I was speaking to her but when I saw him he was normal and very nice and warm.

 

The difference is she didnt care other than for vanity's sake (she sized me up commented on my choice of outfit etc etc) she even asked me to work with her on a project (never happened)

 

You cant be impolite if you are introduced but really its meaningless. You are in charge of whether you get involved or not. What are you going to say to her hi nice to meet you, i fancy your H but dont worry I would never act on it? Its far more meaningful to you than it is to her Im sure. The only way it wouldnt be is if she thinks you are after him but that as I always say is a global problem no one woman is a threat; either a man is faithful or he isnt IMHO.

 

THe fact that meeting her freaked you out (or at least gave you pause) means that you have a much greater intrest in him than you are admitting.

[torranceshipman]

We have lunch about once a week and he calls me 2 or 3 times a day. I would say there is less contact outside of work than when I posted in September. I cannot remember the last time I contacted him on a weekend or weeknight outside of work. He is the one to initiate this contact when it happens. I often make a point of not contacting him to see how long it will last but he always is the first one to email or call me.

 

Surely she does feel threatened...there is no doubt about that. I can put myself in her shoes and I would probably feel threatened if I were her. She is 16 years older than me (5 years older than MM) and I know they both want children very baddly but can't have any (because of her age???). I don't think they have been married that long (I think about 5 to 7 years). Over the xmas holidays he joined facebook (which he used to say he thought was stupid) and requested me to be his friend. When I accepted, he had 1 other friend (W's sister). Then W became his friend (she joined fb after I became his friend) and still only has him and her three sisters as friends! It is all very obvious....he makes comments about things he sees on my fb and pictures (like "cute picture of you and your son"). In fact I think he only joined because of me and she only joined because of him being friends with me! Anyway, it is all so weird....

 

That's really a mean spirited post - getting at the W, saying maybe she's threatened by you because she's much older, maybe she can't have kids 'because of her age', that she joined FB because of you...it's just mean, and you are totally off the point. You're seeing things in a really twisted way...I can really see how jealous you are. Leave the poor woman be-she doesn't deserve to be slagged off on a forum.

[NoIDidn't]

THe fact that meeting her freaked you out (or at least gave you pause) means that you have a much greater intrest in him than you are admitting.

 

I agree. And the fact that they spent the evening staring at each other.

 

Whoever that co-worker is that had all the questions about finally meeting the W, sounds like he was just setting up work gossip. They definitely can tell that the OP has feelings for this co-worker.

 

This is not looking good.

[herenow]

I wonder if the wife was thinking: Why is this woman from H's work staring at me? That is enough to make a person uncomfortable IMO.

 

It sounds like the OP has nothing nice to say about the BW. IMO, if someone is looking for something negative about another person, they will find it.

 

I think it's strange for a coworker to make that comment as well.

[whichwayisup]

I often make a point of not contacting him to see how long it will last but he always is the first one to email or call me.

 

True friends don't act this way - At all.

 

So, now you know it's an EA, inappropriate 'friendship.'

 

Let me ask, is this getting in the way of you finding a single available guy to date?

Do you think of MM alot while at home? In the morning, at night? You admitted in another thread that you were developing feelings for him. Did you go back and read that other thread I mentioned? I hope so. My advice still stands. BACK OFF, detach yourself from him. NO good can come of the friendship, even more so since his wife is aware 'something' is between you and her H.

 

I also need to ask, since you didn't answer before, when that other co-worker started saying stuff about MM's wife, did you say anything? Or agree with what he said? Again, I do believe that co-worker was fishing for reaction, just hope you didn't say a word...If you did, it could come back and haunt you if you bashed her to that coworker.

[freestyle]

OP,

 

I'm not married, but I had a similar experience--from the other side of the fence.

 

I'd been with my current SO for about a year when I finally met one of his long-standing female friends for the first time. I was looking forward to meeting her, he'd spoken highly of her, etc.,he said she and I would get along famously, cut from the same cloth......yada yada...

 

I think she hadn't been expecting my SO to bring to the event she invited him to, from the initial reaction when we arrived. She looked surprised, then irritated ,uncomfortable,(all in a few seconds) regained her composure enough to say," nice to meet you", and exchange niceties.

 

Her behavior was so odd, it set my radar off just a bit. As the evening progressed, and I caught her giving me the stinkeye more than once, it just got louder....(my radar, that is) I wasn't worried about my SO, as he was completely upfront and open about the friendship, but her behavior towards me definitely aroused my suspicions.

 

So, OP, if you're wondering about what was up with your MM's W, she

may have been experiencing something like I did. Even if you were open and friendly, and didn't give her any weird looks, if you felt any discomfort at all, she most likely picked up on it.

And,like I mentioned before, he might have a history of infidelity that you don't know about, but she does.........

............giving her justifiable reason to be hypervigilant.

Edited January 25, 2010 by freestyle

[2sunny]

i'd have to point out that his W is probably working off of the body language between you and her H. this tells her way more than words can ever say.

 

i think you need to try to be honest with yourself. you started a thread in the OM/OW section and refer to her as the BS - that tells everything we need to understand - as you acknowledged your own truth by starting the thread here.

 

so which is it - are you the OW or are you just a gal that likes to flirt with her H?

 

any married gal instinctively knows when another woman is getting too close to her H. MM show their nervousness in all sorts of ways that the W is reading as odd through an evening when meeting his OW. that speaks volumes.

 

the co worker was just reading the oddities as well.

[Stung]

OMG.....WWIU....What did I ever do to you? Yes this is the same guy I posted about in the fall but still to this day, I have not done anything wrong! There is absolutely NOTHING physical going on and that is the way it is going to stay. And actually, I was looking for to meeting his W and didn't have issues with it BECAUSE we are just friends. And because he is an important work collegue and friend of mine, I was looking forward to meeting her. The only thing that got put into perspective was that this women was the coldest, most stuck up snob I have ever met!!!!!! She didn't show any interest in getting to know me or anyone else her husband works with. She was too busy giving me the stink eye to be nice to anyone.

 

I think the reason for my post was actually in my post. I was wondering what happened when the other OWs on this forum were in the same room as their MMs and their Ws. So please, if you have been in this situation, I would like to hear about it.

 

 

You are contradicting yourself. You can't have it both ways, admitting you are in an EA and then defensively saying you are just friends.

 

As for your evening in the wife's company, well...my guess is that your view of the wife was intensely colored by your emotions.

 

She might just plain be a type of woman whom you perceive as being cold and snobbish because she's not the type you normally get along with. Fair enough, nobody likes everybody...but obviously her husband finds some redeeming qualities there. Alternatively, she might be a perfectly nice woman who is shy and socially awkward and comes off as cold/snobbish when she is uncomfortable. This is frequently the case with people often accused of being 'aloof'. OR, she could be a perfectly nice woman who was acting cold and snobbish towards YOU because she could tell something is going on behind the scenes between you and her husband; wouldn't be too unreasonable of her. It's also possible that you are jealous and projecting negative traits you subconsciously want to see onto her. Any of the above are equally likely scenarios, as far as I can tell.

 

If you are only now able to admit that you have crossed the lines into an EA with this married man, you should not only put the brakes on your relationship with him before anybody gets more hurt, you should probably spend some time alone in introspection about all this. Ask yourself where the line was between normal friendship and inappropriate friendship, and why you didn't see it until it was behind you. Ask yourself what you really want out of a relationship. Ask yourself why you wanted to see a man's wife in a negative light to make yourself feel better about your connection with him. Ask yourself why the attention of a married man was so attractive to you. Only by thinking hard about some hard questions do we learn from our experiences.

 

It's a good thing that this never progressed into a physical affair, as it obviously has a lot of high drama potential already. But just because you never made love to him, doesn't mean you never did anything many people would see as 'wrong'. Encouraging a married man into focusing his attention and romantic interest on you instead of his wife is generally not right. Part of you is likely aware of this, another reason why meeting his wife was uncomfortable.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

This reminds me of the movie "Obsessed" lol Watch out!

[pureinheart]

A month and a half ago, I attended a work Christmas party where MM & his W were in attendance. While there is no PA going on between us, that night really solidified the fact that we are having an EA. In fact, I refused to admit that our friendship was an EA up to that point. After the party that night, I felt without a doubt MM's action made me feel like an OW. This was the first time I had ever met W and I can confidently say it will be the last.

 

Have you ever been in a room with your MM and his W? If so, how did she act? How did he act?

 

Hey BurriedAlive, haven't seen you in awhile! Anyway you mostlikely remember my story...

 

I understand completely where you are coming from, I had the same issues, although never met his W other than email, she tried to get me fired, I tried to be cool with her. If it wasn't for the friendship of SO/exMM I legally could have gotten her fired.

 

I really feel for you because it's hard....mine was a bit different as their M was over, just more of the motions they were going through....he didn't want her with him anywhere and vice versa I think. We were best friends in an EA and he was good to me....I didn't say much about the good back then because of the drama at LS, in fact that is what drove me to LS in the first place.

 

I read a few of the replies to your thread and I just want to say that sometimes EA's are not as well defined as a PA due to the fact that most of the time the friendship is the key factor...some PA have this also. I am a 60's baby and grew up with the song "Love the one your with", I do not live my life this way, although a lot of people in the area I grew up in did.

 

Having sex with someone back then, even these days, was no big thang...I was a virgin and didnot understand some of the stuff, although sorta knew everyone was screwing everyone (I apologise for being so blunt, not trying to offend anyone)...it was kept from me because they knew I quite didn't "get it" and were very protective over me.

 

Sometimes the friendships start out very innocently friendships...the feelings can come later, catch one by surprise. Part of you doesn't want to admit any feelings or an attraction because it could jeapordise the friendship.

 

My heart goes out to you.....

[whichwayisup]

Pure, good post.. But, she said in previous thread, in the early fall, that she was developing feelings for him and she even suggested (to herself) on her thread that she needed to back off of him. So, she's fully aware of how she feels about her MM co worker. It also wasn't a mistake this was posted in this section, she may not view herself as a typical OW, yet she is knowingly involved in an EA. Meeting his wife confirmed it, that's all.

 

She's allowed her feelings to develop more in the past bunch of months, and continues talking to him at work on a personal level, she's gone out to lunch with him, emails with him, speaks to him on the phone. All the meanwhile knowing full well he's married...And going against her own better judgement (she had some in her previous thread)..

[jj33]

Buried before you go any further you may want to take a step back. Have you ever read any of those articles about the steps towards an affair. You say you are not hitting on him but you are admittedly in an EA and you are positioning yourself as his W's competitor by your own admission.

 

Some people can handle As and maybe you can - but if you have any doubt as to whether you can, then you may want to take a step back.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about his W.

 

As to your post about facebook - many people are on facebook so they can view other people's pictures but dont actually use it themselves (I am one of those people). The communicate with their friends outside of facebook. It doesnt mean that they dont have friends it just means that they speak to them on the phone etc.

 

Yes maybe she wasnt what people expected, but you wouldnt care so much if you didnt want this to go further.

 

With regard to the idea that she feels threatened, perhaps she does as you sound like you feel like you are competing with her and that may have come across through your body language the way you were looking at him etc, but the mere fact that she is older isnt a reason for her to be jealous of you.

 

And she may not have felt threatened, she may simply have noticed your intent, has heard about you from him (after all you have lunch all the time) and may be wary of you.

 

Obviously I dont know you but as an outsider your stance sounds very predatory and meanspirited. What goes around comes around. Be careful. Your friend knew how old this woman was when he married her.

 

If she is 16 years older than you and they are hoping to have children then it sounds like you must be in your 20s. With no disrespect you are young, dont be young and naive, playing with someone else's husband should not be a game.

 

If you are looking for justifications to turn the EA into a PA its not difficult to find them (we all find rationalizations for our behavior) but realize that you are stirring up a hornets nest. Someone will get stung.

[pureinheart]

Pure, good post.. But, she said in previous thread, in the early fall, that she was developing feelings for him and she even suggested (to herself) on her thread that she needed to back off of him. So, she's fully aware of how she feels about her MM co worker. It also wasn't a mistake this was posted in this section, she may not view herself as a typical OW, yet she is knowingly involved in an EA. Meeting his wife confirmed it, that's all.

 

She's allowed her feelings to develop more in the past bunch of months, and continues talking to him at work on a personal level, she's gone out to lunch with him, emails with him, speaks to him on the phone. All the meanwhile knowing full well he's married...And going against her own better judgement (she had some in her previous thread)..

 

I had the same problem, it's like I didn't want to admit it, but knew it...very, very confusing I know ...I think it's the part of being so torn and trying to make sense out of a situation that really makes no sense....it's a horrible place to be in.

 

You feel one way one day, and another the next...trying to communicate it is impossible due to there being no consistant definition. I am just speculating here: MM acts differently each day. She feels ok while in his presense and when communicating because there could be a possiblity of something more, but he is M and then there is the friendship.

 

This is why I posted what I did because I knew it was confusing to you guys.

 

WWIU, that is the very reason I went total NC, I could not take the confusion and to bring consistancy into my life again. Thank you for reminding me of this....Burried he could be giving you mixed messages, not to bash him by any means, so if you can do the no contact because I look at me now and how I got through this is a literal miracle....but what doesnot kill you does make you stronger!!!!!!!

[Jeff1962]

A month and a half ago, I attended a work Christmas party where MM & his W were in attendance. While there is no PA going on between us, that night really solidified the fact that we are having an EA. In fact, I refused to admit that our friendship was an EA up to that point. After the party that night, I felt without a doubt MM's action made me feel like an OW. This was the first time I had ever met W and I can confidently say it will be the last.

 

Have you ever been in a room with your MM and his W? If so, how did she act? How did he act?

 

I've never had an affair, physical or emotional. Congratulations on waking up before it is too late. I tip my hat to you in respect. Remember this and learn from it.

[jj33]

And another thing - you cant actually "compete" with someone's wife. Even if she does feel threatened by you (and shame on you if you relish in that thought) that in and of itself wont ultimately impact what her H will do unless he is a REALLY great guy and backs off because she lets him know that she is uncomfortable about you and he says fine I will cease non professional contact with her.

 

What people miss in the EA stage is no matter how "threatened" the W may be, it has NO impact whatsoever on whether an MP will "choose" the OW over the W.

 

As you know there are far too many stories on this board about women who are involved with MM who profess to love them more etc etc etc - but who remain married. If that were not the case, its likely this board wouldnt exist or if it did, the threads would be a whole lot different.

 

 

If she is threatened with cause, then its more likely than not, that you have a "cake eater" on your hands.

 

Noone "wins" an MM - hes not a carnival prize. Cheating spouses do what they want to do when they want to do it - in over 90% of cases, thats why they are cheating - they are putting their needs above those of the people they profess to love. Triangles are created to the detriment of the OW (if she cares deeply about the MM) and in most cases to the detriment of the W.

[pureinheart]

And another thing - you cant actually "compete" with someone's wife. Even if she does feel threatened by you (and shame on you if you relish in that thought) that in and of itself wont ultimately impact what her H will do unless he is a REALLY great guy and backs off because she lets him know that she is uncomfortable about you and he says fine I will cease non professional contact with her.

 

What people miss in the EA stage is no matter how "threatened" the W may be, it has NO impact whatsoever on whether an MP will "choose" the OW over the W.

 

As you know there are far too many stories on this board about women who are involved with MM who profess to love them more etc etc etc - but who remain married. If that were not the case, its likely this board wouldnt exist or if it did, the threads would be a whole lot different.

 

 

If she is threatened with cause, then its more likely than not, that you have a "cake eater" on your hands.

 

Noone "wins" an MM - hes not a carnival prize. Cheating spouses do what they want to do when they want to do it - in over 90% of cases, thats why they are cheating - they are putting their needs above those of the people they profess to love. Triangles are created to the detriment of the OW (if she cares deeply about the MM) and in most cases to the detriment of the W.

 

I think the majority feeling here is that MM/MW leave the M due to the M going bad, not for the OM/OW, meaning leaving because they want to not for the OM/OW.

 

I am of the opinion that there is a breakdown in the M before the A even starts...like smoking is not the core issue....the A isn't the core issue.

[jj33]

I agree Pure the A isnt the core issue - but lets look at the facts - no matter how bad, few of them actually leave. So the fact that the marriage is bad, the fact that he may love the OW, that doesnt lead to the logical conclusoin that someone will leave.

 

And that is my point. If you look at the behavior of many MM in a vaccuum you say he is unhappy in his marriage, I met him and his W and xyz ... (anyway this is off topic here but you get my drift)

 

My point to Buried is that even if she thinks the W is threatened or that she somehow offers this man more, it STILL doesnt mean anything in terms of what lies in the future.

 

There are a lot of hidden variables that dont figure into the calculation when you imagine how things will play out.

[jnd2009]

 

Have you ever been in a room with your MM and his W? If so, how did she act? How did he act?

 

Before anything ever happened (aka we were just friends working together), and when we still worked together- she came into our work (he bartended, I'm a waitress). I had no idea who she was. I was talking to him about drinks for my table or something probably work related. Normally we wait for our drinks there. Well I caught her eye (she was sitting at the bar a few feet away from me). Let's just say I received quite the dirty look from her for talking to him. A little later that night I found out from other employees that was his wife (or fiancee at the time, don't remember)- and I have not been the only one to get that dirty look....she apparently doesn't like girls he works with.

 

Later on once we started hanging out outside of work (because he quit), I brought that instance up to him in conversation. He said that's how she is with a lot of girls. Hmm wonder why......

[jj33]

Exactly - people arent stupid - and in these cases where there is smoke there is fire...

 

You want to trust people, but once youve been in these triangles you see how easy it is for people to deceive their partners. Its frightening. Trust is leap of faith and often not rewarded.

[Tony]

As usual, threads to become off topic after a bit. We will close this one here. I hope you were able to get something out of it. Many thanks!