I have been blindsided... the MM does it to me again...

[jennie-jennie]

Narcissism - I have read quite a few books on extramarital relationships and can't recall coming upon this term even once. I wonder why it pops up every so often here on LS. Is it an easy way to condemn the WS?

[bentnotbroken]

Narcissism - I have read quite a few books on extramarital relationships and can't recall coming upon this term even once. I wonder why it pops up every so often here on LS. Is it an easy way to condemn the WS?

 

 

As you say it shows up "every so often", which would imply that it isn't used as condemnation. I personally believe it is an overused term, but there are WS (including Mr. Messy) who were diagnosed by a professional He even agreed with it and embraced it to it's fullest destruction.

 

There are professions that people tend to gravitate to if they are narcissist, just as there are professions that people tend to gravitate to if you are a pediphile or a theif.

[OWoman]

Narcissism - I have read quite a few books on extramarital relationships and can't recall coming upon this term even once. I wonder why it pops up every so often here on LS. Is it an easy way to condemn the WS?

 

It's not always the WS - sometimes it's the BS who's the narcissist. I had a thread on here about that once, ... and the conclusion, IIRC, was pretty much as you say - it's yet another convenient cudgel to use to batter a WS with.

 

He is only going to continue doing this if you let him.

 

IMTK, this I agree with. You might love him, but he's broken. You can't fix him - he needs a professional to do that. EVEN IF he leaves his W, and stays left.... EVEN IF he leaves his family, and stays left... EVEN IF he comes through on promises he's made to you... it won't go away. You will still be susceptible to him hurting you... UNLESS he gets himself fixed, over which you have no control - you might be waiting forever..... OR, YOU decide you're not willing to be hurt like this any longer and you take yourself away from the line of fire (excuse the pun). You can do nothing about HIM - but you can take care of YOU.

 

(((((hugs)))))

[greengoddess]

and this thread is exactly why I think it is important to have a balanced conversation in the ow/om forum. Not just the cheerleading from certain ow. Affairs can devistate so many people. I especially hate reading young women giddy in love when they have an @$$ of a mm.

 

Don't ever speak to this man again. He doesn't deserve you and yu know he will come crawling back and the game will continue.

[jennie-jennie]

and this thread is exactly why I think it is important to have a balanced conversation in the ow/om forum. Not just the cheerleading from certain ow. Affairs can devistate so many people. I especially hate reading young women giddy in love when they have an @$$ of a mm.

 

Don't ever speak to this man again. He doesn't deserve you and yu know he will come crawling back and the game will continue.

 

When I post on the Infidelity forum it is to participate in a discussion. When BS come here, I often get the feeling it is to persuade the OW to get out of the affair. Totally different agenda in my opinion.

 

What if I or other OW would be posting "get rid of the b*stard" to BSs in pain on the Infidelity forum? Inappropriate in my opinion, as inappropriate as the BSs encouraging OW the same here on the OW forum.

[ifebo]

You need to know this...HE'LL DO IT AGAIN,...AND AGAIN...AND AGAIN. Right now you are still loving him...THAT HAS TO STOP. I know it ain't easy but it is only as difficult as you make it, think about it and assume it.

 

It is time you start thinking about nothing else but yourself and start loving yourself, you and only you for right now. You have to see yourself as deserving of someone better and above all, BELIEVE SO. Someone better WILL come and show you real love, only if you give it to yourself first.

 

Feeling sorry for yourself right now isn't going to help. Do something different, say something different, and think of something different.

 

I'll like to add here that you STOP talking about what he did to you to anyone else, and STOP thinking about it as much as you can.

 

Start thinking more about what you would want, think about is so much as if nothing else mattered. The bad will gradually pass and you'll start experiencing some inner peace once again.

 

I wish you the best.

[I Miss the Kiss]

Wow.... once again I don't know what I would do without each and every one of you. I took an Ambien to help me sleep last night (which I rarely, if ever do because they make me feel like I am hallucinating a bit.. but such is the nature of the drug, I guess). I was able to sleep fairly well, only woke up once I think. I didn't care what I had to do do get some real sleep. My brain needs it to think clearly.

 

I am very very sad this morning, finding myself worrying about MM and the hell he must be going through in trying to get his W to accept him back after she has done this to him yet again, and this one was a doozy! Why am I worried about him? I suppose its because I still see his tortured face and the confusion in his heart. I know he is hurt, and because I love him, that makes me very sad... But I know this will pass.... I pray this will pass....

 

HOWEVER, I am very hurt today, too. And where is MM? Is he checking in to see if I'm OK? Is he calling, texting, emailing even a single word to acknowledge this devastation? No... he never does. The last thing I said to him in an email I sent when I got home from my trip (and after he had already told me it was over) was "I'll be here when it all falls apart..."

 

Yes, that was how I felt at the time. And guess what? I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not going to go back and correct myself, because that just gives him more attention. Let him chew on that one for a while. He is there trying to fix his M, but in the back of his twisted mind he "knows" I am still here, which will torture him further. And I really don't feel all that bad about that :/

 

At the time I wrote that to him, it was not with the intent to torture him. I truly meant it. BUT... now that I have come here to LS for support and advice, I KNOW I am going to be okay without him. So just let him think I'm still waiting, and if he ever comes crawling back, this time I will be able to ignore him all together or if forced I will say "Go back to your wife... I love MYSELF more than I love you..."

 

I just hope he doesn't come back. I hope he realizes that all he brings to me is hurt. I will stop loving him someday, I know I will. Even today I see more sides of him than I was willing to admit. Reading everyone's posts has made me recall a lot of comments from him that literally scare me now... so LS has been my savior this time.

 

I do know that I did this to myself as much as he did it to me. I put myself in the line of fire (LOL I love that pun!) and it was my fault. At first it seemed to be the best thing I ever did, and in the end.... who knows, maybe it still was if it brings an end to this pain.

 

Thank you all again, and please feel free to keep the comments and ideas coming. I am just surprised at the ones who think he would really have the balls to contact me again after he so flatly told me we could never speak again. He has never really said that before... I hope he's getting help. I told him straight-up he is a very sick man...

 

IMTK

Edited January 25, 2010 by I Miss the Kiss

[bittersweet memories]

When I post on the Infidelity forum it is to participate in a discussion. When BS come here, I often get the feeling it is to persuade the OW to get out of the affair. Totally different agenda in my opinion.

 

What if I or other OW would be posting "get rid of the b*stard" to BSs in pain on the Infidelity forum? Inappropriate in my opinion, as inappropriate as the BSs encouraging OW the same here on the OW forum.

 

Thats not correct...wrong.

I have seens this in both forums saying the same thing.

I beleive its appropriate if it fits.

[jennie-jennie]

Psycho sick, insane, narcissist, sociopath, as*hole, scumbag - to just name a few of the labels used to describe these MM. This is what I am reacting to, not the "run, forrest, run".

 

And the poisonous making up of scenarios which are even worse than the OP has presented.

 

Can't we just keep it real? There is enough painful stuff without us having to make it look worse.

[greengoddess]

Psycho sick, insane, narcissist, sociopath, as*hole, scumbag - to just name a few of the labels used to describe these MM. This is what I am reacting to, not the "run, forrest, run".

 

And the poisonous making up of scenarios which are even worse than the OP has presented.

 

Can't we just keep it real? There is enough painful stuff without us having to make it look worse.

 

You don't think I miss the kiss mm is all of those things? I think we are keeping it real and she needs to get angry for her own good so he doesn't hurt her again and waste anymore of her life on a spineless man.

[jennie-jennie]

You don't think I miss the kiss mm is all of those things? I think we are keeping it real and she needs to get angry for her own good so he doesn't hurt her again and waste anymore of her life on a spineless man.

 

I certainly do not. None of us have met him and most likely none of us are in a position to be able to give him a diagnosis even if we did meet him. I find it very insulting to call IMTK's MM any of these things. Why would she be together with such a man? Why would she love such a man? How can anyone find it appropriate to post such things about a man they have never met?

 

There are explanations to extramarital affairs out there which are not as insulting as narcissism and sociopath. Why even bring up these extreme conditions? Isn't it much more likely that IMTK's MM is struggling with love and commitment pulling him in two opposite directions?

Edited January 25, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[I Miss the Kiss]

Jennie, thank you for your candid reply. I think there is some truth to what you say. If my MM were outwardly evil, conniving, and hateful, I would not be in love with him, He is the complete opposite of those qualities on the OUTSIDE. He is quite sweet, kind, extremely thoughtful, and romantic. He is a lover, not a fighter. We have never really had an argument in any shape or form, until I went off on him Saturday after he dumped me. THEN I went off! LOL He didn't take to that very well, I might add.

 

But your thoughts are valid. I do believe he possibly has the traits that people are mentioning. Absolutely! But I also feel that he really *is* torn and in love with two women, possibly for very different reasons. Who am I to talk? I am still in love with a man who could do this to me. He is in love with two women and cannot shun his responsibilities there. He is as torn as I am, maybe more so.

 

That all being said, he is still spineless in that he couldn't be honest to my face as we basked in the afterglow in bed, all the while he knew he couldn't do what he promised me right there, mere seconds before. He wanted to love me, he wanted the closeness. He told me right then that "we are as close as we can be right now..." He just couldn't get dressed, go back to his real world, and face the wrath of everyone who was literally looking for him all over town to tell him how bad he is. I'm serious. His brother-in-law the cop was out LOOKING for him. He got scared.

 

I have no idea what is happening up there now. Either she took him back with open arms, or she told him to stay gone until he gets help.

 

If there are an BS out there who can answer this, do you think his W would really allow him to waltz right back in (considering the repeated nature of his cheating and lying and the fact that he just left her on Friday)? Would she allow that confusion to happen to her children? I hope not. I hope he is alone somewhere figuring himself out.

[Jeff1962]

Imissthekiss. I read a lot of pain in your words. I am sorry that you feel so bad. I do however have to be brutally honest with you. You do not DESERVE to be hurt but you placed yourself in a situation that could only bring hurt and turmoil. I am not here to judge you at all.

 

Everyone of us deserve to be happy. We don't always make the right choices in life. We must learn from these choices or we will never grow.

 

Do yourself a favor, embrace your hurt, learn from it and have nothing else to do with this man or anyother MM for that fact.

 

You owe it to yourself to be happy and not be the OW. You deserve to be loved. You deserve to not be cheated on. You deserve to be happy. Some OW can handle being the OW without ANY expectations. Some like yourself cannot. Yes, there were moments of great pleasure like you said but is the hurt that you are feeling now really worth all the pain?

 

Think of the pain that his W and kids are feeling as well because of your choice to become involved with this MM. This is not just you and your MM. These are lives that are being affected in a negative way.

 

I would let this guy go and grieve. Move on with your life. There are plenty of good men out there who will treat you right THAT ARE NOT MARRIED. If you choose to stay in this relationship or move onto another MM, then you will end up with what is coming to you.

[herenow]

If there are an BS out there who can answer this, do you think his W would really allow him to waltz right back in (considering the repeated nature of his cheating and lying and the fact that he just left her on Friday)? Would she allow that confusion to happen to her children? I hope not. I hope he is alone somewhere figuring himself out.

 

Obviously I have no idea what his BW is doing, I can only tell you how I handled the situation.

 

When I found out about my H's affair, I insisted he move out. I did two things the next day. I called a lawyer and asked that he start drawing up divorce papers. I also made an appointment with a therapist. The appointment was to discuss how to best deal with our children. MY H begged me to take him back and I refused. No way was I going to stay with a man who wanted to have sex with an OW.

 

It was the therapist that convinced me to wait to file for divorce. We stayed separated, but continued to go to MC. I needed to be happy on my own before I could let my H back in my life. Turned out that my H is an addict. There is no doubt that he would have continued on the path of destruction had we not had a good therapist that knew the signs of addiction.

 

If your MM doesn't get the help he needs, he will never be able to truly commit to any woman IMO. I hope his wife didn't take him back and insists that he get help. Even if he leaves his wife and starts a relationship with you, if his issues are ignored, you will wind up on the heartbreak rollercoaster again. JMO.

[RedDevil66]

Jennie, I think you may think life is all rainbows and butterflies.

NO one is name calling anyone to hurt. We are using terms as sick etc because that is what it is

 

IMTK is not well. She is not well because she is addicted to this pain. The guy who is playing her is sick because he's, well sick and demented.

 

Listen IMTK, my BF is an alcohoic in recovery and like you I would try to make him better. I would find every excuse in the book for him to why he did what he did.

You're saying today you're wondering how he's doing and how he's taking the brunt of his actions. Really, how about you? How about how you feel.

You really need to realize, your thinking is also twisted and what you feel is not what is real.

When I walked into al anon and in therapy to figure out why my BF was so unwell, I found out, I was also unwell because I came to focus ONLY on him and not on me and my own shortcomings

I also figured out I was keeping the focus on him to not have to face my own life.

This is sick thinking. It doesn't mean you're crazy, it means simply, you're mind is not well.

 

Unless you get some serious therapy, you will keep going back to this person. You need to accept you're not well and focus on you

 

I'm on your side ALL THE WAY and will always be here to offer support.

My words are to help and NEVER to harm you

 

hugs

[Chingaling]

IMTK... I cannot imagine anything more heatwrenching than having what you loved and wanted in the palm of your had, and having it torn from your grasp just hours later. I can feel how hurt and destroyed you are.

 

Your story surely makes me think twice and three times more about ever ever putting your 100% trust (even for a few hours!) in anyone. What he did was unbelievably selfish.

 

I hope that karma works its magic in your world. Sometimes we don't get to see karma right away, but I am sure that what goes around comes around, and he will received as good as he gave.

 

Keep your chin up. You are amazing!

[herenow]

Jennie, I think you may think life is all rainbows and butterflies.

NO one is name calling anyone to hurt. We are using terms as sick etc because that is what it is

 

IMTK is not well. She is not well because she is addicted to this pain. The guy who is playing her is sick because he's, well sick and demented.

 

Listen IMTK, my BF is an alcohoic in recovery and like you I would try to make him better. I would find every excuse in the book for him to why he did what he did.

You're saying today you're wondering how he's doing and how he's taking the brunt of his actions. Really, how about you? How about how you feel.

You really need to realize, your thinking is also twisted and what you feel is not what is real.

When I walked into al anon and in therapy to figure out why my BF was so unwell, I found out, I was also unwell because I came to focus ONLY on him and not on me and my own shortcomings

I also figured out I was keeping the focus on him to not have to face my own life.

This is sick thinking. It doesn't mean you're crazy, it means simply, you're mind is not well.

 

Unless you get some serious therapy, you will keep going back to this person. You need to accept you're not well and focus on you

 

I'm on your side ALL THE WAY and will always be here to offer support.

My words are to help and NEVER to harm you

 

hugs

 

Very true. Living with an addict requires an understanding of how the addiction works and the effect is has on everyone. An addict needs to make a commitment to themselves before they can be committed to anything or anyone else. It is a daily effort that can only be successful if the addict is willing to do the daily work. It has to be the addict's choice. First he needs to realize and accept there is a problem. So do you.

[Fallen Angel]

I Miss,

 

I see you struggling to understand the whys behind your MM's behaviour, and I think if you take jennie's advice and read up a bit on the split-self affair, you will at least be able to understand the war going on inside your MM between the part of him that loves you (yes, i believe he loves you, just as you believe he loves you) and the part of him that feels he is obligated to do "what is right" for his family (notice i say family here, not wife.. in his mind, it is not his wife that he is obligated to, it is the family unit)

 

Read as much as you can to understand where he is in his mental processes right now, if you think that will help you get closure.

 

It will never excuse the way he has treated you, there is no excuse in the world for that, but it will help you to understand the why's behind the behaviour.

 

I wish you love and happiness, my friend. It just may turn out that it was not intended to be with this man. And i am sorry for your heart, to have to struggle through this pain.

 

((((hugs to you))))

[Brokenlady]

IMTK,

I'm willing to bet that his W took him back. If she hadn't, I'm positive he would just have come running after you again. He doesn't sound like someone who can handle being alone. And like he's done so many times before, I'm willing to bet that you haven't haerd the last of him this time either. Having been through this many times myself I vividly remember the feeling of surity that it was over, only to later have it not be over.

 

It sounds to me like he's convinced his W that the affair is her fault, and now that he's jolted her awake with his 24 hour leave, she now wants to change. I can "hear" in what you post that he's really bent on viewing himself as a victim of fate and circumstance, and probably also a victim of her.

 

As jennie-jennie said, he sounds like split-self, and that means he isn't going to get better without long-term therapy, which he seems intent on not getting. He is broken and you can't fix him. You didn't deserve any of this and his actions say loudly how broken he is. Please take care of yourself.

[NoIDidn't]

IMTK,

I'm willing to bet that his W took him back. If she hadn't, I'm positive he would just have come running after you again. He doesn't sound like someone who can handle being alone. And like he's done so many times before, I'm willing to bet that you haven't haerd the last of him this time either. Having been through this many times myself I vividly remember the feeling of surity that it was over, only to later have it not be over.

 

It sounds to me like he's convinced his W that the affair is her fault, and now that he's jolted her awake with his 24 hour leave, she now wants to change. I can "hear" in what you post that he's really bent on viewing himself as a victim of fate and circumstance, and probably also a victim of her.

 

As jennie-jennie said, he sounds like split-self, and that means he isn't going to get better without long-term therapy, which he seems intent on not getting. He is broken and you can't fix him. You didn't deserve any of this and his actions say loudly how broken he is. Please take care of yourself.

 

I don't understand why this post feels like it is blaming his W for "taking" him back, instead him for "going" back.

 

Just like its said in this post that he "convinced" his W. I disagree with the assumption taken of what he convinced her of, but whatever it was, he went back home of his own volition.

 

I think the OP is better served dealing with what he did to her, or her perceptions of it, than what is going on in his marriage.

 

He told his children, according to the OP. His in-laws were supposedly calling around about it. We have NO IDEA of the hell that family is going through right now. The ENTIRE family, not just his W.

[Brokenlady]

NID,

There is no blame to be assigned here. IMTK asked people if they thought his W took him back. I answered that I thought she did. If so, that was the W's choice, and probably the result of MM begging. Truly, I'm sad for his W that he keeps leaving and coming back (and apparently she keeps accepting it). The revolving door isn't good for either of the women.

 

As far as convincing - its been typically said here that BS's blame themselves for their H's transgressions. I'm betting that this guy is of the sort to capitalize on that.

 

Obviously he went home because he wanted to. But he told her he was only staying for the kids. Are we really supposed to cheer for that? That isn't fair to the BS, if it's true.

[NoIDidn't]

NID,

There is no blame to be assigned here. IMTK asked people if they thought his W took him back. I answered that I thought she did. If so, that was the W's choice, and probably the result of MM begging. Truly, I'm sad for his W that he keeps leaving and coming back (and apparently she keeps accepting it). The revolving door isn't good for either of the women.

 

As far as convincing - its been typically said here that BS's blame themselves for their H's transgressions. I'm betting that this guy is of the sort to capitalize on that.

 

Obviously he went home because he wanted to. But he told her he was only staying for the kids. Are we really supposed to cheer for that? That isn't fair to the BS, if it's true.

 

Then is IMTK blaming his W for "taking" him back?

 

I don't think it matters in the grand scheme of things. He went home. He told her he was going back, for whatever reason. Split self affair, maybe. But it doesn't matter. His dysfunction is causing chaos.

 

I, too, think its sad if his W keeps taking him back, but that's her cross to bear IMO.

 

I agree with whoever said that IMTK was not blindsided. He's done this before. She even spoke to his W after the time before this one. Its becoming a sickening game. One that IMTK should back away from.

 

I certainly don't think that we should "cheer" for him going back for the kids. I don't think it matters why he went home after the way he told them he was leaving. If he did that to his family, I can only imagine what he would do to IMTK's family. Her family has been through enough interrelated madness due to this affair.

 

And on the way that he "left". He packed a car full of things and spent the night at a hotel that he wasn't paying for. He didn't show any real initiative (other than packing the truck) to begin with. IMTK would be better served, and better serving herself, to deal with why she felt "blindsided", than anything else.

[herenow]

NID,

There is no blame to be assigned here. IMTK asked people if they thought his W took him back. I answered that I thought she did. If so, that was the W's choice, and probably the result of MM begging. Truly, I'm sad for his W that he keeps leaving and coming back (and apparently she keeps accepting it). The revolving door isn't good for either of the women.

 

As far as convincing - its been typically said here that BS's blame themselves for their H's transgressions. I'm betting that this guy is of the sort to capitalize on that.

 

Obviously he went home because he wanted to. But he told her he was only staying for the kids. Are we really supposed to cheer for that? That isn't fair to the BS, if it's true.

 

Why do you think it's obvious he went back to his wife? Why are you so convinced that his wife would take him back after he left her and told the kids?

 

You are also assuming that he told the truth about leaving in the first place. It's possible that his wife kicked him out. It's possible that he never told her or the kids. It's possible that he did leave and his wife isn't taking him back.

 

Anything is possible, so why do you assume that his wife isn't the one who wants the marriage to end?

 

As far as things that are typical. Many MM who have affairs don't realize how much they love their wives until they are about to lose them. For all you know, she took a stand for the first time and now he sees that he wants to stay married. It's typical, but not necessarily what has happened here.

 

None of us, except the MM, know what really happened

[herenow]

IMTK,

I'm willing to bet that his W took him back. If she hadn't, I'm positive he would just have come running after you again. He doesn't sound like someone who can handle being alone. And like he's done so many times before, I'm willing to bet that you haven't haerd the last of him this time either. Having been through this many times myself I vividly remember the feeling of surity that it was over, only to later have it not be over.

 

It sounds to me like he's convinced his W that the affair is her fault, and now that he's jolted her awake with his 24 hour leave, she now wants to change. I can "hear" in what you post that he's really bent on viewing himself as a victim of fate and circumstance, and probably also a victim of her.

 

As jennie-jennie said, he sounds like split-self, and that means he isn't going to get better without long-term therapy, which he seems intent on not getting. He is broken and you can't fix him. You didn't deserve any of this and his actions say loudly how broken he is. Please take care of yourself.

 

Now can you be positive about anything? I kicked my H out and his OW begged him to stay with her. He went to a hotel. I even told him to go to her. He still went to a hotel.

 

My H never blamed me or the OW. He took full responsibility for his actions. I can only tell you what happened in my case. I have no idea what happen here and you don't either.

[torranceshipman]

A man that can lie to those extremes just to have sex with you is a sick, sad individual. Sorry to hear that you had the misfortune to even meet him.

 

But now you KNOW what an evil cretin he is, yet you say you are the OW, you say you love him, and you obsess over what he is thinking. Enough already. He's such a b**tard and is treating you so badly - so who cares what he is thinking? You dodged a bullet there - be thankful. Also be logical - if you ended up with him after all that crap, he'd continue to treat you badly. Why sign up for a miserable, depressing life??