Enema Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I was slightly hammered, so I talked to them for 45 minutes or so. Nice enough people, but woefully ignorant about modern science and what a logical fallacy is. Couple of the more memorable lines they gave me: - If evolution says we came from apes, why are there still apes? - Science doesn't know what started the big bang, so it must have been god. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Wow, they're still sending out people armed with that sort of rot. Religion and progress, never the twain shall meet, nay? Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Malenfant Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 reminds me of a day i was approached in a park. they were preaching the adam and eve creationism. i said i didnt believe that, so they asked me 'how do you think life started?' i said 'the amoeba' they said 'whats that?' Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 To which you said, until you figure that out, adios amoebas! Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I always ask them the following (as they say only 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes will be allowed entry to the kingdom of heaven):- 1. Which tribe do I belong to 2. How many have already entered heaven from that tribe When they give me a puzzled look and can't answer I tell them that I can't be bothered as statistically the chances are all the quota has already been taken and it really makes no odds what the hell I do, I aint getting in. Enjoy , looks like heavens probably full up Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Eh, I just take off my shirt, grab a beer... and turn up some such day time tv like Springer. Usually the conversation lasts about 20 seconds. Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 I usually answer the door, listen to their speech, and politely tell them I'm not interested. Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Well that's no fun. They want to waste your time, so you should be able to waste some of theirs. Redneck, ax-bitten veteran, Mormon (if they're Jehovah's Witnesses, and JW if they're mormon), Occultist (my favorite), drug addict... it's all spiritually pleasing to me. Link to post Share on other sites
taiko Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Well that's no fun. They want to waste your time, so you should be able to waste some of theirs. Redneck, ax-bitten veteran, Mormon (if they're Jehovah's Witnesses, and JW if they're mormon), Occultist (my favorite), drug addict... it's all spiritually pleasing to me. The thing is that they won't see it as a waste of their time but rather validation that what they see as their God given mission is needed. You infact reinforce their resolve to keep knocking on strangers doors to witness Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 I also got this line after I talked about the difference between abiogenesis and evolution and why she should stop saying evolution doesn't know how life started: "My husband is the one that knows about all the evolution and science things, but... you know there's no real evidence for it (evolution), yet there's so much evidence in the bible for Jesus and his miracles". ^^to the best of my recollection. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Couple of the more memorable lines they gave me: - If evolution says we came from apes, why are there still apes? - Science doesn't know what started the big bang, so it must have been god Actually, believe it or not, I think these are very valid questions. Anyone have any answers? Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 I'm a door-slammer- usually acconpanied by a "You have to be effing kidding me". Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Actually, believe it or not, I think these are very valid questions. Anyone have any answers? I'll give it a go First , if we evolved from apes why do we still have apes ?:- Imagine the first form of life of earth, a single cell thingy, for thousands and thousands of years that reproduced so there were just lots of single cell thingies. Then at some point, a random mutation happened (totally random, maybe caused by some radiation who knows) , and one of these single celled thingies gave birth to a single celled thingy with an ear (or something else), this mutation , ie an ear, gave the child an advantage over the other single celled things without ears and so many more thousand years later there were still single celled thingies, but also a lot of single celled thingies with ears. Then one of the single celled thingies with ears gave birth to a child with an ear and an eye, this over many thousand years let to a mix of single celled thingies, single celled thingies with ears and single celled thingies with ears and eyes. etc etc etc. over millions of years many random mutations happed, producing ears, thumbs, eyes, hair, colour etc. Some happened to help the creatures survive some of the conditions depending on where they happened to be , some didn't help. This is basically why in cold climates 'most' creatures might have fur, because this helps keep them warm. It doesn't exclude bald creatures in cold climates, it's just that most of these baldies would die, most but not all. There is no absolutes in evolutionary terms, just general sort of trends. This is why there are apes and humans living side by side. more and more humans and less and less apes as times go by. But if the conditions on the planet change, then the mix of creatures might change as well, over large amounts of time lots can change. Secondly, the big bang thing:- Religous people say that because scientists can't answer the 'what caused the big bang' question then it MUST have been god. Most good scientists openly acknowledge that they cannot answer this question, they believe by using their reason and looking at the Evidence that there was a big bang, but they do not know what caused it. However they counter the illogical argument from religous people by saying that just because they don't know (yet) what caused the big band to say that is must have been god makes no sense because all you are doing then is replacing one unknown with another unknown for which there is absolutely NO evidence. A really good scientist will not exclude the possibility of there being a god, but will just point out that there is NO evidence for one. Indeed the whole question of who or what is GOD is just as important, maybe if we as people redefine WHAT god is from the western 'old man with a beard sitting on a cloud' notion to something like a 'quantum singularity in 24 seperate dimensions simultaneously' the starting point for religion and science MIGHT turn out to be the same. One day maybe. Difficult praying to a quantum singularity though... Edited January 28, 2010 by wuggle Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Actually, believe it or not, I think these are very valid questions. Anyone have any answers? humans didn't "evolve from" from apes. We had a common ancestor, many, many way-back-whens...At one point in time, one branch of apes took a different evolutionary track, and evolved into humans. Many other branches remained, and produced apes, monkeys, and other simians. Birds evolved from dinosaurs, and there are so many varieties of insects now - do you think there were always this many? With regard to the Big bang theory, that's exactly what it is. As much for them, as it is for us.... because the only proof they have is Biblical. And that iis no proof at all. Really. Is it? Nice reply with regard to the 12 tribes......"Which one am I in....?" Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Couple of the more memorable lines they gave me: - If evolution says we came from apes, why are there still apes? - Science doesn't know what started the big bang, so it must have been god Actually, believe it or not, I think these are very valid questions. Anyone have any answers? I'll assume you're serious. As far as evolution is concerned, while I do not profess to be an expert, I understand how evolution works. Just because a species branches off, such as with primates, does not mean the originating branch dies off. Meaning, just because apes and humans have a common ancestor, doesn't mean that one or the other dies off as their differences become more pronounced over time. Not at all unusual in nature. Attributing an unknown to god, is not unlike attributing an acorn on the head to mean the sky is falling. So, if they choose to believe that god "must" have started the big bang, fine. But I personally do not feel a need to attribute every unknown I have to a diety. Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Nice reply with regard to the 12 tribes......"Which one am I in....?" Don't think there is a 'Buddhist' tribe so you're screwed :lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 I'm a door-slammer- usually acconpanied by a "You have to be effing kidding me". Good one! I've never had the nerve to actually do this. What I usually do is ask the person who they are with. The direct question usually results in a direct answer, to which I respond, I am not interested, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 This is why there are apes and humans living side by side. more and more humans and less and less apes as times go by. But if the conditions on the planet change, then the mix of creatures might change as well, over large amounts of time lots can change. It could very well be so. Perhaps in a thousand years apes will be extinct and man will have grown ten ears. One thing is for sure, evolution is a forever existing,never-ending process. All things in the universe are in a constant state of flux. There are no absolutes. A really good scientist will not exclude the possibility of there being a god, but will just point out that there is NO evidence for one. Exactly. Lack of evidence only means that whatever theory is being expounded is inconclusive,therefore, rendered null for the time being. This inherently implies that all possibilities are open. Indeed the whole question of who or what is GOD is just as important, maybe if we as people redefine WHAT god is from the western 'old man with a beard sitting on a cloud' notion to something like a 'quantum singularity in 24 seperate dimensions simultaneiously' the starting point for religion and science MIGHT turn out to be the same. Yes, from the Olympian gods to the Bible to the Koran and then some, organized religion has done more harm than good in reconciling science and religion. Personally, I think that one day science will prove that god is amoral and more or less another law of physics. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Oh, and I never turn them away. I like reading their literature as I would any religious order's literature. I just have to know what everything is all about. I consider it a part of my overall education. Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Personally, I think that one day science will prove that god is amoral and more or less another law of physics. I think I can agree with that. Morality seems to be such a human construct anyway, I'm not sure that other animals have this frame of reference and ultimately humans (and other animals) will evolve , maybe past the need for a 'morality'. Hopefully we will have found out who or what god is by then. Fingers crossed Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Fingers crossed Absolutely, but alas, I am quite sure it won't be in our lifetime! But, hey, maybe time is not as finite as we think it is!! Fingers crossed!! Link to post Share on other sites
Malenfant Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 i'd just like to add, with regard to the 'evolution from apes' discussion.. evolution of species is also a by-product of a changing environment. the facinating animal species on Madagasca is a brilliant example of this, the island itself being cut off from the mainland for millions of years, the species thereon were not subject to changing environment due to dispersal that our ancestors were. personally, i find the evolution of species in nature to be far more awe inspiring than the idea that a singular mind created life. the term 'life finds a way' pretty much sums it up for me. truely wonderous Link to post Share on other sites
bluewolf17 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Can I just add in regards to "why are there still apes". Geologically speaking, Humans have only been around for a very short time. I would say, re-address this question in a thousand years, or a hundred thousand years, and I am sure more evolving will have passed. What was the last dating of the world.. 4.5 billion years old? Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Good one! I've never had the nerve to actually do this. What I usually do is ask the person who they are with. The direct question usually results in a direct answer, to which I respond, I am not interested, thanks. Well, just do it redtail. It's often liberating to tell someone pushing crap to f-off. What you percieve as crap is subjective- but if someone knocks on your door and interrupts your routine- they just don't deserve your respect. Why? They didn't observe your privacy, because they don't care. If I lived in the States, I assume I could pull a gun- but since I am more North- I resort to a hearty "Get Lost". Link to post Share on other sites
taiko Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 If I lived in the States, I assume I could pull a gun- but since I am more North- I resort to a hearty Get Lost. Haha. In a few places you can not even have a gun. In most placesyou can have it but you could not pull it under these circumstances Link to post Share on other sites
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