Never let a girl you date hang out with men

[threebyfate]

things can only be done in the present. When I meet a girl say in line at the library, I'm not going to say do you have close guy friends? but after a few dates and things get seriouse and as problems pop up of course I will speak up, and no you can't push a square peg into a round hole so if things don't work out they don't work out. Has nothing to do with trying to change some one

Sounds to me like you've now gone to the extreme end of upfront. We both know there's a period of dating, where you get to know each other slowly. How about date #5?

 

And yes, it's totally about control and you know it, Green.

[FryFish]

And yes, it's totally about control and you know it, Green.

how can it be about control when it is him saying he simply wont date a person who doesnt respect the boundaries... It is always her choice, but his decision to stay with her depends on what choice she makes.

[meerkat stew]

He actually has many, many female friends, but I think he suffers from the same thing some women do.....the requirement to have lots of attention from the opposite sex. Do I feel completely comfortable with it, no. Would I if he had the strong boundaries I do and does not require the need to have all that attention from the opposite sex, yes.

 

There are lots of attention seeking men out there like this too, it's not just women, but the thread lists women because women tend to expect tolerance of this more. I have female married friends who I will stand arm in arm with right in front of their husbands as they grab my ass, stick their tongue in my ear or do something equally sexual, who are also friends for -many- years. That's all fine with people who have known each other 20 years or more, as the level of trust is so high and reinforced over a very long time. Now I would never allow this kind of thing in front of a relatively new GF who hadn't had a chance to befriend my female friend and to gain trust that it's all harmless teasing among old friends. There's lots of perspective involved in this thread topic.

 

And this brings up another point that there is a time factor in all this. We all become more comfortable with opposite sex friends as time goes by and trust is established. Some people seem to forget though, that relationships, especially these days, don't start out with whole boatloads of trust on the front end, and that it takes time to develop.

 

What has annoyed me in the past is how some women work pseudo friends into the relationship as if there is no explanation needed when a text comes in at 3AM while we are asleep "Oh, that's just my friend Pete, he's just drunk and lonely" (which often means my ex Pete, or Pete who has always been in love with me, or Pete who is always trying to get me drunk, or even worse my FWB Pete who wants you out of the picture so he can have no strings sex with me as we usually do)

[PinkToes]

 

Why do you have to have a private lunch with some man so bad? Hes not your friend you just think he is, it doesn't matter if he has a gf off some where if he didn't bring her and you two are alone thats what he wanted.

 

Sorry dude, that's bullsh*t and you know it. I'm trying to cut you some slack by pointing out there's a huge difference between having lunch with a friend of 20 years and going to an ex's house to watch a movie, but if you really don't get that, you will never have a healthy, trusting, long-term relationship. And spare me the "he's not your friend, you just think he is" nonsense. You don't have an effin' clue.

[GroupFitness]

Green, I agree with whomever said your problem is youth and immaturity. Your experience is limited to dating women in their late teens to early twenties and for all of us who were once that age, I will admit that a bit of attention whoring is quite common. A bit of possesiveness is also quite common with men within your age bracket. The girls want to bask in the male attention glow..something they are newly discovering. You on the other hand want to capture, conquer and posess this new "flower", you've just stumble upon. Your primal urges have yet to be tempered with the reality of life. Young love, it's a beautiful thing.

 

Not to be patronizing but you all still have a hell of a lot of figuring out to do in life.

[thegreatmoose]

You should never let a girl you are dating hang out with men. If you are dating a girl seriously then you should ask her not to put herself in a situation where she is going to be alone with another man.

This is ridiculous and very controlling behavior.

 

I'm not dropping my female freinds and she should not drop her male friends. In fact, I'd likely become friends with some of her male friends and she'd likely become friends with some of my female friends.

 

Normal people can have opposite freinds and not want sleep with them.

[OnlyJake]

There are lots of attention seeking men out there like this too, it's not just women, but the thread lists women because women tend to expect tolerance of this more. I have female married friends who I will stand arm in arm with right in front of their husbands as they grab my ass, stick their tongue in my ear or do something equally sexual, who are also friends for -many- years. That's all fine with people who have known each other 20 years or more, as the level of trust is so high and reinforced over a very long time. Now I would never allow this kind of thing in front of a relatively new GF who hadn't had a chance to befriend my female friend and to gain trust that it's all harmless teasing among old friends. There's lots of perspective involved in this thread topic.

 

And this brings up another point that there is a time factor in all this. We all become more comfortable with opposite sex friends as time goes by and trust is established. Some people seem to forget though, that relationships, especially these days, don't start out with whole boatloads of trust on the front end, and that it takes time to develop.

 

What has annoyed me in the past is how some women work pseudo friends into the relationship as if there is no explanation needed when a text comes in at 3AM while we are asleep "Oh, that's just my friend Pete, he's just drunk and lonely" (which often means my ex Pete, or Pete who has always been in love with me, or Pete who is always trying to get me drunk, or even worse my FWB Pete who wants you out of the picture so he can have no strings sex with me as we usually do)

I love your posts.

[threebyfate]

how can it be about control when it is him saying he simply wont date a person who doesnt respect the boundaries... It is always her choice, but his decision to stay with her depends on what choice she makes.

Reread his post. He would date someone like that, since, as he's stated it, he wouldn't know it upfront and wouldn't discuss relationship boundaries until problems pop up. Why not discuss relationship boundaries and values, previous to investment, so you don't get blindsided?

 

Btw, control issues usually stem from insecurities.

[harmfulsweetz]

Thank you!,

 

OP, if you pick a woman who has so little integrity that she goes around tripping and landing on other men's penises, then that is your issue--her LACK OF INTEGRITY. Your problem is not "allowing" her to hang out with members of the opposite sex alone.

 

A person that will cheat on you will find ways to do it no matter what. Controlling whom she hangs out with has nothing to do with her choice to remain faithful.

 

Exactly.

 

Agree 100%

 

I don't get it. Women can be friends with someone for years,but as soon as they get a bf, they suddenly can't be friends with them anymore. It's like wtf? If they wanted to be together, they'd have done it by now.

 

The thing is, if you take on that attitude, you're gonna be single for a long time coming. Because everything is tainted, you're twisting something which could be innocent and turning it into something sordid, when it's not.It says a lot more about you, than it does any woman.

 

A person will cheat regardless if it's in their character to do so, regardless of who you allow them to see or not. Relationships should be built on trust, not some deep-seeded paranoia that they are going to cheat. I have been friends with many male friends, and no, they didn't fancy me. They all wanted relationship advice off me, and such, and were just my friends, people I wouldn't sleep with in a million years! If a guy I was dating suggested I couldn't see them anymore, I'd say 'oh well, looks like I can't see you anymore actually."

[FryFish]

Normal people can have opposite freinds and not want sleep with them.

Normal women can... Normal guys cannot. From the male perspective, unless the girl is some sort of uber cool super girl, there is no real incentive or desire to hang out with her as a friend... also she would HAVE to be super ugly too... Because if she is even remotely attractive, the guy is gonna want to plug her.

[Green]

Reread his post. He would date someone like that, since, as he's stated it, he wouldn't know it upfront and wouldn't discuss relationship boundaries until problems pop up. Why not discuss relationship boundaries and values, previous to investment, so you don't get blindsided?

 

Btw, control issues usually stem from insecurities.

 

I would discuss it as soon as posible, I'm not going to use it as an ice breaker when meeting women though. It comes up quick and it is easy to spot and solve a problem. No one is controled or bullied people are free to make the decisions they want.

[FryFish]

Why not discuss relationship boundaries and values, previous to investment, so you don't get blindsided?

 

Btw, control issues usually stem from insecurities.

He said he does. You need to reread his posts... Take off your fury glasses first though. And insecurities stem from real world situations.

[Green]

Exactly.

 

Agree 100%

 

I don't get it. Women can be friends with someone for years,but as soon as they get a bf, they suddenly can't be friends with them anymore. It's like wtf? If they wanted to be together, they'd have done it by now.

 

The thing is, if you take on that attitude, you're gonna be single for a long time coming. Because everything is tainted, you're twisting something which could be innocent and turning it into something sordid, when it's not.It says a lot more about you, than it does any woman.

 

A person will cheat regardless if it's in their character to do so, regardless of who you allow them to see or not. Relationships should be built on trust, not some deep-seeded paranoia that they are going to cheat. I have been friends with many male friends, and no, they didn't fancy me. They all wanted relationship advice off me, and such, and were just my friends, people I wouldn't sleep with in a million years! If a guy I was dating suggested I couldn't see them anymore, I'd say 'oh well, looks like I can't see you anymore actually."

 

to sum up what I already said I'm not single, have great gf of over a year. And we've had problems this not being one of them, but right now we are going strong.

 

Yes a person will cheat regardless if they are a cheater. Trust is very important. It is not paranoia to want boundaries in a relationship, I never said they couldn't be friends just friends with in boundaries.

 

Finaly I believe women are often obliviouse to the true intentions of a man who likes hanging out one on one.

 

Peace~

[Clep]

TI have female married friends who I will stand arm in arm with right in front of their husbands as they grab my ass, stick their tongue in my ear or do something equally sexual, who are also friends for -many- years. That's all fine with people who have known each other 20 years or more, as the level of trust is so high and reinforced over a very long time.

 

What has annoyed me in the past is how some women work pseudo friends into the relationship as if there is no explanation needed when a text comes in at 3AM while we are asleep "Oh, that's just my friend Pete, he's just drunk and lonely" (which often means my ex Pete, or Pete who has always been in love with me, or Pete who is always trying to get me drunk, or even worse my FWB Pete who wants you out of the picture so he can have no strings sex with me as we usually do)

 

The length of time that I am with someone is irrelevant to me. I could not imagine grabbing someone in front of my so or without them present. There are many other ways I can joke with someone and interact without it being sexual I think.

 

I completely agree with the latter part of your post. I received a text one night at two am and was shocked by that. I made sure my so knew it was my sister texting me to phone her as there was a serious problem. I get what you are saying though, like trust should be automatically there regardless of the circumstances.

[tami-chan]

Well, there are two strands in the thread. Green is more hardcore and doesn't want them spending any time with opposite sex friends whether they are real or not. I don't have a problem with my GF spending time with real friends, but they have to be real friends, not sycophants waiting for a chance with her that she classifies as friends because she enjoys the attention and having backburners.

 

I have to say though, that a woman who goes to her guy friend to vent out frustrations about her BF/SO is really setting herself up..most men, have this 'messianic complex" of saving a damsel in distress. I would not go to my guy friends if I have problems in my relationship. That is just unnecessary stuff to deal with. So unless they are gay, weeding out "real" guy friends as opposed to those who harbor a secret crush on you can be tricky. My bro used to tell me that no guy would spend their time listening to a woman complain, whine, or b*tch about their BFs if they do not somehow hope that they can turn the tide to their favor because (as he says) it is not natural for a man to sit and endure listening to this crap from any woman.

 

Will say that I can't recall dating a woman in the last 15 years who would be cool with me doing things alone with non-work women, friend or no. It's not a ban they lay down per se, just an endless quizzing, grilling, pouting process that is more noxious than an out and out ban ever could be I don't know any men who find this very common stance of their GFs unreasonable, it's just understood that you don't hang out alone with other women while dating or there will be hell to pay. I do find many women don't like the same standard applied to them.

So true, if I have a BF I would definitely not want him to go and talk to another woman about our stuff...!

[meerkat stew]

why not just tell women you date you are not cool with them seeing men like they did before you. If they have a good friend then invite him out for a double date or what ever don't go and watch movies with him at his place by yourselves. I say make a clear cut rule.

 

Well, if I restrict her in this way, then she is reasonable in restricting me from having lunch with a real female friend, and suddenly we are laying lots of absolute rules on each others' social lives that are needlessly restrictive. Much better to have simple boundaries such as "real friends are fine, fake friends have to go" where the test for a real friend is so straightforward and easy. It's not like the dudes among her friends who really want to get with her don't stick out like a sore thumb, and they will do almost anything to avoid meeting me as the BF. If we do meet, those types are either unfriendly and defensive or overly friendly, men are awful at putting on a poker face when they meet the guy who is banging a woman they themselves want, it's almost too easy to spot them.

 

I'm not going to be dating a woman who clings to keeping in touch with a FWB or ex while we are dating once they see it for what it is, they are reasonable, especially when you invite them to put the shoe on the other foot (I'm -real- good at that )

 

But I did have one a couple years back who told me flat out "It's OK for me to have male friends, not OK for you to have female friends" We didn't last long

[GroupFitness]

Normal women can... Normal guys cannot. From the male perspective, unless the girl is some sort of uber cool super girl, there is no real incentive or desire to hang out with her as a friend... also she would HAVE to be super ugly too... Because if she is even remotely attractive, the guy is gonna want to plug her.

 

So he wants to plug her, then what? This means the girl should steer clear of the guy and all guys right? which also means girls should not have any male friends, just female friends because really, who would want to be freinds with anyone who wants to plug them? Since every interaction can be narrowed down to and will only be overshadowed by that undeniable desire to plug right?.

 

I mean why do we need to be friends with each other anyway? Men and women are really only meant to ***** and nothing else right?

 

You gender thanks you for devaluing them in such an assinine way.

[Clep]

Lol... Guys dont tell their actual friends these things unless they are about to die or seriously drunk... But we do tell our female "friends" these little things about ourselves... It makes them feel safe with us.

 

My bf, his gf, he and I all discuss these things together as well. I'm sure the guys want to feel safe with each other as well.

[Stockalone]

Not to be patronizing but you all still have a hell of a lot of figuring out to do in life.

 

You obviously have a hard time accepting that there are people who disagree with you on this. The feeling is mutual though, so I don't blame you.

 

Out of curiosity, at what age do you think things will change?

 

 

I would discuss it as soon as posible, I'm not going to use it as an ice breaker when meeting women though. It comes up quick and it is easy to spot and solve a problem. No one is controled or bullied people are free to make the decisions they want.

 

The way you worded it in your last reply made it sound like you only discuss it if that particular problem actually arises.

 

Instead, you should be discussing these things preemptively, which would be easier and also more honest, given that you feel so strongly about this particular topic.

[FryFish]

So he wants to plug her, then what?

Honestly that is about as far ahead as we think things through.

 

This means the girl should steer clear of the guy and all guys right?

All guys she doesnt want to get plugged by at least.

 

which also means girls should not have any male friends,

lol... girls dont have any REAL male friends anyways... For the most part that is.

 

just female friends because really, who would want to be freinds with anyone who wants to plug them?

Attention whores and naive girls.

 

Since every interaction can be narrowed down to and will only be overshadowed by that undeniable desire to plug right?.

Pretty much.

 

I mean why do we need to be friends with each other anyway? Men and women are really only meant to ***** and nothing else right?

From an evolutionary stand point the goal is procreation... So its written in the genes of guys to be "friends" with as many women as possible... even though the only real fun that can be had with them is sex. Most of the stuff leading up to sex is a pain in the ass.

 

You gender thanks you for devaluing them in such a assinine way.

When you grow up get back to me.

[Green]

You obviously have a hard time accepting that there are people who disagree with you on this. The feeling is mutual though, so I don't blame you.

 

Out of curiosity, at what age do you think things will change?

 

 

 

 

The way you worded it in your last reply made it sound like you only discuss it if that particular problem actually arises.

 

Instead, you should be discussing these things preemptively, which would be easier and also more honest, given that you feel so strongly about this particular topic.

 

I discuss everything preemptivly but women often try to come off cool in the begining, so do men. I find women will put up with alot of crap in the begining and will challenge things months later, thats when things have to be cemented. The truth is things are never cemented you always have to work on your relationship or it falls apart... any ways I did discuss it in the begining and again as problems arose and the problems went away and I was happy. I practice what I preach and don't spend any alone time myself with women even if I think it would be harmless.

[harmfulsweetz]

to sum up what I already said I'm not single, have great gf of over a year. And we've had problems this not being one of them, but right now we are going strong.

 

Yes a person will cheat regardless if they are a cheater. Trust is very important. It is not paranoia to want boundaries in a relationship, I never said they couldn't be friends just friends with in boundaries.

 

Finaly I believe women are often obliviouse to the true intentions of a man who likes hanging out one on one.

 

Peace~

 

To be honest, you can't yourself know what their male friends think, or have intentions to do. Often, those thoughts are conjured up by insecurities because they are just what you imagine their intentions are. I've had a bf who thought as soon as I got with him it meant I dropped all of my male friends, uhm, no. These people were there for me, all the time, 100% of the way, why should anyone ditch someone for someone who could easily ditch them? I wouldn't sacrifice a friendship for that. Anyways back to my story, he went everywhere with me, especially where my male friends were concerned (in spite of the fact that I was also hanging around my female friends at the same time) and if he wasn't there, he was phoning me. Eventually, he almost ended up in a fight with my male friend (whom I had known for the good part of 12 years) all because of what went through his head. Not because of anything I did, my friend did, but because of him. He chose to have those thought patterns and chose to see things the way he did, those were his issues, and not mine. He was insecure, paranoid and abusive. In the end, it turned out he was the cheating scumbag not me I love how those things work.

 

Look at it this way: Would you date a girl if she said you can't suddenly watch the game with your friends, or whatever? I know it's not the same thing, but it is at the same time. You can't request someone give up people for you, you should enrich each other's lives, not cause them to sacrifice people for you.

[threebyfate]

I would discuss it as soon as posible, I'm not going to use it as an ice breaker when meeting women though. It comes up quick and it is easy to spot and solve a problem. No one is controled or bullied people are free to make the decisions they want.

Green, you're not understanding what I'm trying to communicate to you. Relationship boundaries are easy to express in normal conversation without having an incident happen. The sooner you find out how someone feels about given situations, is the sooner you figure out who this person is.

 

In providing the example I did, of personal experience, I made the mistake of not discussing relationship boundaries previous to investing. I didn't figure him out soon enough and that was my fault. I judged him by the same criteria I use, when maintaining relationship boundaries with close male friends, that these opposite gender friendships were romantically non-threatening, that I always prioritize a romantic partner, before these men.

 

Where I failed the worst, is not to realize how important it was for his ego to be fed by cross-gender attention. It's why he didn't have many friends and only one male friend. Male friends wouldn't feed his ego.

[Green]

To be honest, you can't yourself know what their male friends think, or have intentions to do. Often, those thoughts are conjured up by insecurities because they are just what you imagine their intentions are. I've had a bf who thought as soon as I got with him it meant I dropped all of my male friends, uhm, no. These people were there for me, all the time, 100% of the way, why should anyone ditch someone for someone who could easily ditch them? I wouldn't sacrifice a friendship for that. Anyways back to my story, he went everywhere with me, especially where my male friends were concerned (in spite of the fact that I was also hanging around my female friends at the same time) and if he wasn't there, he was phoning me. Eventually, he almost ended up in a fight with my male friend (whom I had known for the good part of 12 years) all because of what went through his head. Not because of anything I did, my friend did, but because of him. He chose to have those thought patterns and chose to see things the way he did, those were his issues, and not mine. He was insecure, paranoid and abusive. In the end, it turned out he was the cheating scumbag not me I love how those things work.

 

Look at it this way: Would you date a girl if she said you can't suddenly watch the game with your friends, or whatever? I know it's not the same thing, but it is at the same time. You can't request someone give up people for you, you should enrich each other's lives, not cause them to sacrifice people for you.

 

Look I wouldn't date a girl who wanted anything from me I couldn't give her. If you translate no alone time as you can't be friends then thats on you. I never said no double dates, or parties with other people or a life where you stay in touch. Alone time is the issue

[Pizzaman81]

If cheating is going to happen it's going to happen. We don't live in a society where we shell ourselves in the house. There's the Internet, there's actual people in book stores! GASP!

 

If she wants to cheat she will cheat. Preventing her from hanging with other men is stupid. Don't be so insecure.

 

I encourage her to hang out with other men, I got no problem.