Heroes or villains?

[silktricks]

Well, I tend to agree with RD that everyone on the face of the earth probably has some kind of "mental problem" that we need to deal with... of course, I generally think of that as probably the reason we are here to begin with. To me, it's kind of like saying that so and so came from a dysfunctional family... which implies that somewhere there are "functional families"... In my opinion there is no such thing...

 

Though I doubt that every firefighter and every cop and every high powered executive has the kind of grandiose thinking she mentioned, we all do tend to follow a career that best suits our personalities. I doubt that a person who truly cares deeply about the poor (for example) would do terribly well as a leader of industry. That doesn't make him/her a sociopath, but it probably does mean they have a little less altruism that does the ilk of Mother Teresa.

 

JMO

[pureinheart]

It's funny, the ones that think they don't have mental issues, and communicate this by arrogance....ARE THE ONES WITH THE MOST!!!!!!

 

 

Anyway O Woman, I hope you don't mind, although I have a really neat story...and in my opinion all carreers create stress.

 

My exFiancee from the time he was a kid wanted to be a FF, he tried to be a cop, although it didn't work for him...he was in military as a FF....took all of the classes had all of the education....was WAY over qualified, yet never made it into the fire acadamy ...

 

Then we started seeing each other, we were both way late 30's...well the "test" rolled around again, he passes again with top scores, BUT this time he got further, kept getting further, now interviews....wow we were tripping. So, he get into the Fire Acadamy now he is 40yrs old...

 

The acadamy is strenuous, beyond what you could imagine for a 40 yr old...it came right down to the wire, if he didn't pass with 100% of the physical and classroom he was out. (keep in mind this was a lifetime dream).

 

I told him, that I had a "knowing" that he was gonna make it, that it would happen...it happened.

 

This was a 40yr old man who smoked, drank and partied all of his life....Lord have mercy did we party....he quit smoking a yr before he took this last test, as something told him to.

 

Just thought I would add this story, it is precious to me and I wish we would have worked as I miss him....oh and for the record, he is not a "cheater"....very devoted to whoever he is with.

[Devil Inside]

Isn't that the classic reason - to find out about yourself, before everyone else does?

 

Yes it is. Judging from my colleagues it is more then just a cliche.

 

 

Interesting... so calm, analytical, rational types with the drive and initiative to get to the top of their careers are more likely to... yield when hit on by in-your-face woman who wants a new sex toy?

 

Hmmmm. Well. I think that many things that make a man very attractive to the opposite sex are the same men that have success in certain careers. I think the more attractive you are, the more opportunity you have. Of course this is not applicable to everyone but is a rough theory..well maybe more of a correlation. You're the researcher OW help a brotha out!

 

(Something else has just struck me - at least three of my fMMs were M to therapists of various flavours. I wonder if that's significant?)

 

They were probably sick of being with someone that was living in a controlled and measured way. Some therapists can be very boring because they are always trying to regulate emotions. Maybe they just wanted to be with someone passionate. Or maybe you were just a lot hotter.

[NoIDidn't]

Interesting thread, OW.

 

I know that there are special offices of therapists who ONLY counsel all the professions named above: policemen, firefighters, and military personnel.

 

Wonder why that is? Does the career lead to greater stress? More adrenaline? More admiration? (and we can add successful businessmen in the last group) and then returning home to a significant other you are just daddy? Hubby?And not the hero, not in the way you may be at work?

 

Does daily respect and admiration from strangers lead to higher expectations of receiving it in a long-term relationship...perhaps unearned?

 

Just wondering....

 

The "just" factor. I think that is interesting all by itself.

[Devil Inside]

There was a poster here, not too long ago, that was having an affair with her therapist. Another group that shows up in OP threads. I know D.I. is here, but I have to wonder about the control and manipulation aspect of a therapist sleeping with those that they are supposed to be counselling. And this isn't gender specific, it happens both ways.

 

I can tell you that this is a very interesting thing. As a male therapist it has been very interesting to see this dynamic play out in real life. Good thing for supervision. It is also so very unethical to take advantage of this relationship. For the record, and for those that do not know my story, i did not sleep with a client. There are some lines even this devil won't cross.

[Devil Inside]

I know this was directed at someone else, but I find it interesting. I'm guessing that most men don't find powerful women attractive in the same way that many women find powerful men attractive. I may be wrong, but In my observation, men want the women to be less powerful the themselves and women want the man to be someone they can look up to.

 

 

Yes and no. I myself am attracted to women that are very direct and confident. If I look back at the women I have loved, including my xAP, they were all very powerful in some area of their life. I loved that about them all.

 

However, there is something to wanting a woman that also respects the areas where I am powerful.

[NoIDidn't]

I can tell you that this is a very interesting thing. As a male therapist it has been very interesting to see this dynamic play out in real life. Good thing for supervision. It is also so very unethical to take advantage of this relationship. For the record, and for those that do not know my story, i did not sleep with a client. There are some lines even this devil won't cross.

 

I can only imagine that sleeping with a client would be like shooting fish in a barrel in some instances. It just seems to me that a person is a special kind of evil to take advantage of the vulnerable in that way, and in that position.

[Devil Inside]

Interesting thread, OW.

 

I know that there are special offices of therapists who ONLY counsel all the professions named above: policemen, firefighters, and military personnel.

 

Wonder why that is? Does the career lead to greater stress?

 

YES. Post Traumatic Stress. These are professions where there is a high level of trauma and vicarious trauma. It is hard to do and see the things these people do day in and day out without having it acted out through unhealthy coping mechanisms.

 

 

 

More adrenaline? More admiration? (and we can add successful businessmen in the last group) and then returning home to a significant other you are just daddy? Hubby?And not the hero, not in the way you may be at work?

 

Does daily respect and admiration from strangers lead to higher expectations of receiving it in a long-term relationship...perhaps unearned?

 

This is a good theory. I wonder about this as well. I do know that in my experience in counseling people in positions where they are seen as heroes or as powerful they often do not have the same role at home, it is often their spouse as they are bust at work so much. Interesting.

[RedDevil66]

I quoted her post above, and other than your pointing out that she added "many", I don't see her saying what you assert.

 

Its not there is "black and white". You are twisting her words. The very thing you accuse others in this forum of, on a regular basis.

 

Thanks for this. She is just lashing out because I disagree with her in other threads. This is classic reflecting :-)

[pureinheart]

I would tend to agree. I think that there are definitely personality types that respond to a challenge. They type of men that get everything they want how they want it...and then all of the sudden they meet their match...very sexy. Actually, it kind of turns me on. Uh oh .

 

DI...haven't read this entire thread and have thread jacked to no end (I am a thread jacker....that's what you guys can call me...lol)

 

Your reply caught my eye as to challenge...so not sure if I am on the same page as to what you are communicating, although...

 

I have run across guys (there are women like this too) that think they are all that....man at work I looked at them, like what a joke.

 

After dating a guy that I refer/referred to as "plastic man" (he pissed me off bad) it took a whole lot to get my attention from men because I got tired of the arrogance and the guys that think they can snap their fingers and women will come running....and to the good guys this is not meant for you ...k... for me I just did not want jerks, I needed to study them for a bit to see if they were arrogant....anyway I loved putting the arrogant ones in their place back in the day...these days don't get out much, basically hang with SO and my kids....

[Devil Inside]

I can only imagine that sleeping with a client would be like shooting fish in a barrel in some instances. It just seems to me that a person is a special kind of evil to take advantage of the vulnerable in that way' date=' and in that position.[/quote']

 

Well...I don't know if it is evil...but it is just not even fair and will lead to losing your license. However, it happens all the time. Go look at your state regulatory agencies website sometime. Number one infraction in every state...male therapist sleeping with a female client.

 

I can see how it happens. When I was just starting out as an intern the second case I had was a young lady that was in an abusive relationship. So here she is, all beaten down, low self esteem, and I am a man that is kind, empathic, and I listen to her. So one day she gets a haircut and I say "oh you cut your hair, it looks nice." That was it! So next session she comes in with a mini skirt and is working those legs...no lie! She was also drop dead gorgeous...did I mention that? So anyways...we had to address it next session. She told me that she just liked me so much and that I was so nice and she wanted me to like her. Luckily we were able to work out these issues in therapy and it lead to some breakthroughs...but...I can see how it can happen.

[RedDevil66]

Well, I tend to agree with RD that everyone on the face of the earth probably has some kind of "mental problem" that we need to deal with... of course, I generally think of that as probably the reason we are here to begin with. To me, it's kind of like saying that so and so came from a dysfunctional family... which implies that somewhere there are "functional families"... In my opinion there is no such thing...

 

Though I doubt that every firefighter and every cop and every high powered executive has the kind of grandiose thinking she mentioned, we all do tend to follow a career that best suits our personalities. I doubt that a person who truly cares deeply about the poor (for example) would do terribly well as a leader of industry. That doesn't make him/her a sociopath, but it probably does mean they have a little less altruism that does the ilk of Mother Teresa.

 

JMO

 

 

I never said every........I said many

[Devil Inside]

DI...haven't read this entire thread and have thread jacked to no end (I am a thread jacker....that's what you guys can call me...lol)

 

Your reply caught my eye as to challenge...so not sure if I am on the same page as to what you are communicating, although...

 

I have run across guys (there are women like this too) that think they are all that....man at work I looked at them, like what a joke.

 

After dating a guy that I refer/referred to as "plastic man" (he pissed me off bad) it took a whole lot to get my attention from men because I got tired of the arrogance and the guys that think they can snap their fingers and women will come running....and to the good guys this is not meant for you ...k... for me I just did not want jerks, I needed to study them for a bit to see if they were arrogant....anyway I loved putting the arrogant ones in their place back in the day...these days don't get out much, basically hang with SO and my kids....

 

Yeah I can see that happening. So if you "studied" one of these jerks they would see it as a challenge that you pulled away. They would come harder and not take no for an answer.

 

Now just to clarify...I definitely don't think I am some ladies man. I just find challenge sexy in general. I think it's why I like strong, confident, intelligent, and direct women. I don't, necessarily, like women that are not interested in me...that is a different kind of challenge.

[2sure]

Sure, it does seem like men who are in some position of power are more inclined to infidelity. But that position varies depending on who is looking.

 

*The Heroes - Law enforcement, fire fighters, maybe military...are to some people appealing. To me, they simply have uniforms.

* The leaders, politicians, celebs. ....all have people who follow them. To me, they are often really needy - which is both an advantage and a disadvantage to them professionally.

* The rich - often seen as someone who can take care of things.

* The romantic - he sacrifices for his family.

 

These people are all in a position of power only because they have found someone who thinks they are. So, to say their position may incline them more toward infidelity ....if someone is going to cheat, they can shop until they find someone willing or decide to cheat simply because they found someone who makes them feel like they are all that - usually someone vulnerable impressed with their perception of who he is.

 

Being a Hero of some kind, yes. Its what makes the affair appealing

[Fallen Angel]

Thanks for this. She is just lashing out because I disagree with her in other threads. This is classic reflecting :-)

 

LOL.. keep trying to attribute my reaction to your outrageous comment to something other than your comment itself. People with any common sense here see the facts as they are being played out..

 

Let us take word for word what you said, and compare it to what i said you did...

 

"but many people in these professions have personality disorders that relate to their egos such as grandiose thinking, narcissism or even on some level of sociopathic tendencies."

 

I said you diagnosed people in these professions as having personality disorders, and being sociopathic... IT IS RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE, IN YOUR EXACT WORDS!!! No twisting involved !!!

 

"This doesn't always equate to cheaters, they can also kill animals, mentally torture people, slander etc"

 

I said you said they could kill small fuzzy critters. AGAIN, RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE IN YOUR EXACT WORDS!! Again, no twisting of your words at all.. my words were taken DIRECTLY from your words...

 

I suppose when your theory gets shot down, denying you ever said it sometimes works... lmao.. but in this case it works about as well as the MM who gets caught with his umm.. parts... inside of his OW.. denying it doesn't change what everyone can see with their own eyes.

 

**sorry for the delay in my response.. I took yet another call from My MM, as he is packing his bag to come and be with me tonight, and was missing me and just called me to say that!

[RedDevil66]

LOL.. keep trying to attribute my reaction to your outrageous comment to something other than your comment itself. People with any common sense here see the facts as they are being played out..

 

Let us take word for word what you said, and compare it to what i said you did...

 

"but many people in these professions have personality disorders that relate to their egos such as grandiose thinking, narcissism or even on some level of sociopathic tendencies."

 

I said you diagnosed people in these professions as having personality disorders, and being sociopathic... IT IS RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE, IN YOUR EXACT WORDS!!! No twisting involved !!!

 

"This doesn't always equate to cheaters, they can also kill animals, mentally torture people, slander etc"

 

I said you said they could kill small fuzzy critters. AGAIN, RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE IN YOUR EXACT WORDS!! Again, no twisting of your words at all.. my words were taken DIRECTLY from your words...

 

I suppose when your theory gets shot down, denying you ever said it sometimes works... lmao.. but in this case it works about as well as the MM who gets caught with his umm.. parts... inside of his OW.. denying it doesn't change what everyone can see with their own eyes.

 

**sorry for the delay in my response.. I took yet another call from My MM, as he is packing his bag to come and be with me tonight, and was missing me and just called me to say that!

 

wow! You're really not getting it!

[Fallen Angel]

wow! You're really not getting it!

 

I get it just fine, that I called you on your ridiculous statements and now you want to deny that you made them.. I get all that very clearly.

 

I get that you come over to this forum to beat people down, and that when you are shown to be what you are, someone here with an agenda of hurting people and making statements with absolutely no basis whatsoever in fact, that you don't like it one bit. I get that very clearly.

 

I get that you can dish it out like a cafeteria worker in a highscool lunchroom.. but when it gets fed back to you, it makes you feel bad. I get that just fine...

 

Perhaps what you should get, is that you should think about things you say rather than just posting angry with the intent to berate and belittle anyone involved in an affair.

 

I get that you think it is wrong, I just don't care what you think.

[NoIDidn't]

Well...I don't know if it is evil...but it is just not even fair and will lead to losing your license. However, it happens all the time. Go look at your state regulatory agencies website sometime. Number one infraction in every state...male therapist sleeping with a female client.

 

I can see how it happens. When I was just starting out as an intern the second case I had was a young lady that was in an abusive relationship. So here she is, all beaten down, low self esteem, and I am a man that is kind, empathic, and I listen to her. So one day she gets a haircut and I say "oh you cut your hair, it looks nice." That was it! So next session she comes in with a mini skirt and is working those legs...no lie! She was also drop dead gorgeous...did I mention that? So anyways...we had to address it next session. She told me that she just liked me so much and that I was so nice and she wanted me to like her. Luckily we were able to work out these issues in therapy and it lead to some breakthroughs...but...I can see how it can happen.

 

I definitely know how it happens. And it happens in the reverse as well.

 

I was being "counselled" by a preacher friend of mine in college because I was depressed. I am not unattractive by any means, but I didn't think that my friend was attracted to me...until he started getting touchy-feely when we spoke. I put an end to the "talks" because he was married and much older than me. That, and I wasn't attracted to him. AT ALL.

 

Come to find out, I wasn't the only student he tried that game with. It was like he was out hunting for the vulnerable. Unlike many preachers, he actually has a degree/license in counselling as well, so its not that he was just counselling people without the proper credentials.

 

I said evil, because it is so unfair to the clients. The therapists have more knowledge of how to *get* the client than the client even *gets* themselves. Its the worst kind of manipulation for some.

 

I think its great that you helped her deal with her feelings she was having after the "compliment". You probably gave her much insight into herself and her current predicament with that session alone.

 

Why do you say its unfair? Unfair to the therapist or to the client? Do you think a therapist should be allowed to keep their license after such an incident is reported? Curious.

[silktricks]

I never said every........I said many

 

 

I know... :)

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Edited January 25, 2010 by silktricks

[Devil Inside]

Why do you say its unfair? Unfair to the therapist or to the client? Do you think a therapist should be allowed to keep their license after such an incident is reported? Curious.

 

Unfair to the client. The relationship is a one way relationship. The client discloses all their issues, they are vulnerable. It is not a fair relationship dynamic. Therapist should definitely lose their license for breaking this etical boundary...100%.

[tami-chan]

Yeah I can see that happening. So if you "studied" one of these jerks they would see it as a challenge that you pulled away. They would come harder and not take no for an answer.

 

Now just to clarify...I definitely don't think I am some ladies man. I just find challenge sexy in general. I think it's why I like strong, confident, intelligent, and direct women. I don't, necessarily, like women that are not interested in me...that is a different kind of challenge.

 

oh so modest, DI! you know you are some kind of a ladies' man.

[Devil Inside]

oh so modest, DI! you know you are some kind of a ladies' man.

 

 

Some kind being the operative phrase.

 

Anyways...I would be interested to hear your opinion on this topic Tami...wasn't your xMM some big shot attorney or something?

[pureinheart]

Oh ok...DI, you are the therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist...not sure about the psychiatrist...love reading your stuff on this thread and am learning a lot.

 

I miss my ex, when he was going through the fire acadamy towards the end I had to walk because the R turned abusive due to the stress from both ends. Then talking to some ladies, they communicated that their H's were FF's and way abusive...so at this point I understood the why's as to certain issues we faced in the R.

 

In an earlier reply I stated that we are all jacked up, although after reading what you said, when a life is or could be in your hands it would create bigtime stress...indirectly my job was like that, a lot of pressure, although we had inspection checkpoints, still, my thinking was, what if we all missed something and there was a failure of a particular system ect...

 

It's funny how "meeting" your match is sexy to you and me meeting mine (or them meeting their matches) is almost offensive to me....lol

 

Wow, that Post Traumatic stuff...no joke, I was involved with (9/11) and many other things...really messes with one.

 

It's so cool because you can read what some of the posters say and see right through it...the pain, the heartache...on such a different level than the mere words.

 

I have a team of therapists/psychologists/psychiatrist and supportive friends, family, church all kinds of stuff and am so grateful...

 

Anyway DI, thank you for being in this world...

[tami-chan]

Some kind being the operative phrase.

 

Anyways...I would be interested to hear your opinion on this topic Tami...wasn't your xMM some big shot attorney or something?

 

...or something and he is divorced !

 

Interestingly enough, I do think that people who are in professions who "help" other people get their lives together or save lives are the ones who are constantly tested/challenged to abide by the ethical requirement of separating themselves from their clients, patients, or what not...I mean, think about it, wouldn't you have special feelings for the guy ( or gal) who "saved" you....that person is like the "messiah"!

 

The danger is when those professionals start believing their own 'press".

 

So I am glad you only exist on LS and are not my therapist, DI. lol

[pureinheart]

I get it just fine, that I called you on your ridiculous statements and now you want to deny that you made them.. I get all that very clearly.

 

I get that you come over to this forum to beat people down, and that when you are shown to be what you are, someone here with an agenda of hurting people and making statements with absolutely no basis whatsoever in fact, that you don't like it one bit. I get that very clearly.

 

I get that you can dish it out like a cafeteria worker in a highscool lunchroom.. but when it gets fed back to you, it makes you feel bad. I get that just fine...

 

Perhaps what you should get, is that you should think about things you say rather than just posting angry with the intent to berate and belittle anyone involved in an affair.

 

I get that you think it is wrong, I just don't care what you think.

 

Hey FA not responding to entire reply, although this is my take, and possibly not completely with RD because I can't remember any of her replies here....although, this is what I find: Some BS's have an agenda when talking on this forum...you go to the infidelity forum and their demeanor is completely different.

 

I see the hatred, the anger and resentment in the way we are talked to over here and it is just way uncool.

 

The infidelity forum is laced with anger and hurt...I feel bad, yet it is so hard read and most is not good psychologically for me right now.

 

Then you hear all of the "keylogging" stuff and it boarderlines on scary because it says that these peoples worlds are all wrapped up in their S's SO's whatever...this tells me that their own "worlds" are unmanageable at the time and need that other person to throw themselves into.

 

Then I hear the statements that I have befriended some OW...now this statement is as prejudice as it comes, kind of like ya, some (whatever race) is cool, I have some as friends.

 

I mean, it's like the OW have to walk on eggshells or something or they will get pounced....and it's true that the MM really get the a** end of the slinging match.

 

I will not go to the infidelity board and tell the BS's they are wrong for what they say about their WS...that is wrong, it is their board to release whatever and however they see fit. I will keep my opinions over here. I did say something over there that concerned me as I felt I was being maligned...but hey if the BS's want to jack their WS's, the OW, whatever, keep it over there and let the OW over here be themselves also in whatever they need to say. JMO