Heroes or villains? Take two

[Jeff1962]

I have 3 combat tours under my boots and I remained faithful. Hero or villian is a personal choice.

[White Flower]

This has been the reason I have little respect for WS who continue to lie (out right or by omission) after d-day. Most seem to think it is the handbook to continue to lie. Whether they stay in the marriage or not, they lie. Selfish till the end. Yet they want the BS to make changes, how is it possible to make lasting changes when the changes are based on lies? I think to most BS an act of infidelity isn't a deal breaker, but the lying that follows is more pervasive than the lies during the A. Not to mention quite a few A's continue, without the BS knowledge of course.

 

AP don't think it's their place to inform the BS, WS has no intention of informing the BS so what is the next move?

You didn't mention the BS seeking truth from the OW. Cut out the middle man.

[OWoman]

You didn't mention the BS seeking truth from the OW. Cut out the middle man.

 

 

WF this only works if the OW is like you, willing to be frank and open with the BW. Many are not, for a number of reasons. I know if any of my fMM's BWs phoned me up and wanted answers, I'd tell them to get them from their H's - partly because I'd have a hard time remembering who the MM was in the first place but also because I believe that - if they're recovering a M - the dynamic needs to be righted between them, the WS needs to be given the opportunity for full and honest confession, and the BS given the opportunity to rebuild trust. Recourse to a third party - particularly one with their own interests and own truth which may or may not compute - is not, IMO, particularly helpful in that scenario. But that's JMO - others have equally valid reasons for theirs that differ.

 

It also only works if the BW is open to hearing the OW - some are, as we've seen elsewhere on LS, but others merely want the opportunity to harangue and vent at the OW. An OW subjected to abuse when she acceded to a request for information from the BW is not likely to persevere in her openness - more likely she'll become defensive, perhaps even aggressive in retaliation, and the dialogue would collapse into hostility.

 

It also only works if the MM is open to getting the truth out into the open, and not confounding the issue by feeding the BS with doubts about the intentions and motivation of the OW, or the OW with doubts about the intentions and motivation of the BW. It needs all three to be honorable, open, frank and courageous, and willing to set aside their own interests to establish some common "truth". How often is that the case for ALL players involved?

[bentnotbroken]

WF this only works if the OW is like you, willing to be frank and open with the BW. Many are not, for a number of reasons. I know if any of my fMM's BWs phoned me up and wanted answers, I'd tell them to get them from their H's - partly because I'd have a hard time remembering who the MM was in the first place but also because I believe that - if they're recovering a M - the dynamic needs to be righted between them, the WS needs to be given the opportunity for full and honest confession, and the BS given the opportunity to rebuild trust. Recourse to a third party - particularly one with their own interests and own truth which may or may not compute - is not, IMO, particularly helpful in that scenario. But that's JMO - others have equally valid reasons for theirs that differ.

 

It also only works if the BW is open to hearing the OW - some are, as we've seen elsewhere on LS, but others merely want the opportunity to harangue and vent at the OW. An OW subjected to abuse when she acceded to a request for information from the BW is not likely to persevere in her openness - more likely she'll become defensive, perhaps even aggressive in retaliation, and the dialogue would collapse into hostility.

 

It also only works if the MM is open to getting the truth out into the open, and not confounding the issue by feeding the BS with doubts about the intentions and motivation of the OW, or the OW with doubts about the intentions and motivation of the BW. It needs all three to be honorable, open, frank and courageous, and willing to set aside their own interests to establish some common "truth". How often is that the case for ALL players involved?

 

 

Exactly! In my situation the ow wasn't about being open and honest. She and Mr. Messy were too much alike. He being diagnosed NPD, I can only suspect that for her given some of her behavior. But the truth wasn't high on either's agenda so had I decided to recover I would be building a life on a lie. I do believe that this is more the dynamic than WS coming completely clean and whether they leave or stay.

[White Flower]

WF this only works if the OW is like you, willing to be frank and open with the BW. Many are not, for a number of reasons. I know if any of my fMM's BWs phoned me up and wanted answers, I'd tell them to get them from their H's - partly because I'd have a hard time remembering who the MM was in the first place but also because I believe that - if they're recovering a M - the dynamic needs to be righted between them, the WS needs to be given the opportunity for full and honest confession, and the BS given the opportunity to rebuild trust. Recourse to a third party - particularly one with their own interests and own truth which may or may not compute - is not, IMO, particularly helpful in that scenario. But that's JMO - others have equally valid reasons for theirs that differ.

 

It also only works if the BW is open to hearing the OW - some are, as we've seen elsewhere on LS, but others merely want the opportunity to harangue and vent at the OW. An OW subjected to abuse when she acceded to a request for information from the BW is not likely to persevere in her openness - more likely she'll become defensive, perhaps even aggressive in retaliation, and the dialogue would collapse into hostility.

 

It also only works if the MM is open to getting the truth out into the open, and not confounding the issue by feeding the BS with doubts about the intentions and motivation of the OW, or the OW with doubts about the intentions and motivation of the BW. It needs all three to be honorable, open, frank and courageous, and willing to set aside their own interests to establish some common "truth". How often is that the case for ALL players involved?

All good points. All three in the triangle would need to demonstrate those qualities in order to gain common ground and answers to the past and the future. I'm pretty sure one of us couldn't handle it.

 

It surprises me that he could have married someone like (closed, fearful, and unwilling) that but then again he was so young when he M her. He knows what he wants and needs now but it is too late, unless of course his counseling journey gets him there and prepares him to leave her.

 

I don't see them ever repairing the M. If they stay together, it will be more of the same. If I don't allow the A to start up again, he'll be right back out there (with another OW) and she will just bury her head in the sand again.