For the men

[Lizzie60]

Butternut... you have noooo idea what you're talking about..

 

If men had 2-3 times of sex/week.. they wouldn't even be here..

 

I am a woman.. and I've been there... with my first ex.. everything was great except I just didn't want sex anymore.. with him.. why?? not sure.. I didn't love him like that.. I loved hiim like a brother.. not a lover.. I was comfortable in our life.. nice home, 5 kids altogether.. good jobs, cars, etc.. etc... but sex was a sacrifice... simple as that...

 

You don't get up one morning and say.. it's over.. I don,t want sex anymore.. it's over a loooong period of time... no one can pinpoint exactly what happened.. it's just happens... and I believe it's the same thing for million of married couples..

 

Your thoughts are too simplistic.. it's not quite how it works.. have you experienced 'zero libido' from your wife? I'm curious.

[Woggle]

A quick cure for no sex from the wife is to tell her that you will get it elsewhere if things don't changed. Never go behind her back but be honest with her about your other options. It worked for my barber and I have heard about it working on other message boards. It does something to a woman when she knows her man has other options and will use them if need be.

[Buttnutter100]

I'm flabbergasted reading this, laughing out loud..... Just how many and how good must these orgasms be????? Is that all I need to do????

 

I think if you are having sex signficantly less than 2 - 3x a week for an extended period of time, and you are in a committed, exclusive relationship, with no obvious health problems preventing sex from occurring, then you are not devoting sufficient time/effort/energy to this fundamental part of any loving relationship between mature adults. IMO. YMMV. Also lack of sex is a sign of other serious problems in the relationship (e.g. bad communication, lack of intimacy, etc.)

 

How many orgasms? Well I guess that depends on the people involved, but the point is, the man should not be selfish when having sex. He should strive to ensure that his woman finds it to be pleasurable, exciting, and enjoyable. Generally speaking that means she would want to have an "O." It doesn't necessarily have to be every time. But the man should definitely try to satisfy his woman every time he has sex with her. Obviously this is an ideal and we are all human beings. But if a man leaves his woman unsatisfied time after time that can't be good for the relationship, can it?

 

How good should the orgasms be? Again that is an individual thing; hopefully as good as you can make them, right? I mean isn't one of a person's objectives during sex not only his own pleasure, but the pleasure of his partner as well? If your partner is happy it is more likely that she will also strive for your happiness.

 

Is that "all you need to do"? Actually for some women it IS. But even if that is not true for all or even most women, and you have to do other stuff as well, good healthy sex is a fundamental part of the relationship. Without it there is an almost 100% chance that the relationship will have serious problems of one kind or another, aside from the lack of sex.

[Buttnutter100]

Being faithful in a marriage should be a given from either end so that does not make a man a doormat but a woman should have to earn the kind of treatment you suggest. She should not get it simply becuase she is a woman and she certainly should not get it as a reward for being a witch to her husband and throwing emotional tantrums which is what many men do. If a woman does something genuinely nice for a man or is an all around loving wife then yes a man should treat her this way because she deserves it but if she is cold or unloving towards a man then she should get the same treatment in return.

 

Woggle,

 

I will present a somewhat different perspective (I understand from some of your posts although I don't really know your entire back story that you've had a horrendous experience).

 

I think the partners should strive to avoid a "quid pro quo" or "tit for tat" attitude. Because then the relationship becomes a zero sum game with a negative feedback loop. The tit for tat behavior on the part of each of the partners becomes self-reinforcing. (Maybe that's a positive feedback loop but with a negative outcome.)

 

So, if the wife or husband is cold/unloving to the spouse, I think giving the same treatment in return risks just escalating the problem rather than resolving it.

 

I know it's hard to be warm and loving in response to a cold spouse, but the warmth in the relationship has to come from somewhere. Obviously if it remains one-sided then there are very deep issues which need to be confronted in a more or less direct manner.

[Woggle]

Woggle,

 

I will present a somewhat different perspective (I understand from some of your posts although I don't really know your entire back story that you've had a horrendous experience).

 

I think the partners should strive to avoid a "quid pro quo" or "tit for tat" attitude. Because then the relationship becomes a zero sum game with a negative feedback loop. The tit for tat behavior on the part of each of the partners becomes self-reinforcing. (Maybe that's a positive feedback loop but with a negative outcome.)

 

So, if the wife or husband is cold/unloving to the spouse, I think giving the same treatment in return risks just escalating the problem rather than resolving it.

 

I know it's hard to be warm and loving in response to a cold spouse, but the warmth in the relationship has to come from somewhere. Obviously if it remains one-sided then there are very deep issues which need to be confronted in a more or less direct manner.

 

Everybody has bad days and that should be taken into account but if a woman shows a pattern of this then a man should withdrawl all affection and if that doesn't work he should get out. I am just tired of seeing men give the sun, moon and stars to women who couldn't care less and just throw it back in their face.

[Simon Attwood]

Is her name Imelda by any chance?

 

might as well be

[Buttnutter100]

Butternut... you have noooo idea what you're talking about..

 

Well I think you're about to immediately contradict yourself. Let's see....

 

If men had 2-3 times of sex/week.. they wouldn't even be here..

 

Exactly. So perhaps I do know what I'm talking about, at least a little bit.

 

 

I am a woman.. and I've been there... with my first ex.. everything was great except I just didn't want sex anymore.. with him..

 

Obviously everything was not "great" if you didn't want to have sex with him. A supposedly romantic relationship between two healthy, mature adults in which one party does not want sex with the other party is not a great relationship. It is a terrible relationship. Which is ultimately why your "first ex" is an "ex."

 

A healthy sex life is an integral and necessary part of a successful relationship. It is a foundation of a successful relationship. If there is no sex, there is no "relationship." At least no romantic/love relationship. You are not lovers anymore; you are just friends (at best).

 

Even now with the opportunity of hindsight you are in denial about the state of your past relationship. You still want to believe it was a great relationship when it obviously was not and could not have been. Because you did not want to have sex with your significant other. Ergo, not great.

 

 

 

why?? not sure.. I didn't love him like that.. I loved him like a brother.. not a lover.. I was comfortable in our life.. nice home, 5 kids altogether.. good jobs, cars, etc.. etc... but sex was a sacrifice... simple as that...

 

If you are still not sure, then you have not done sufficient self examination to determine why you would get into such a fundamentally non-romantic relationship with your ex, in the first place. Actually it sounds like it was simply a relationship that at least for you was never romantic in nature, but rather, one of practical convenience.

 

Now relationships or marriages of convenience are fine I guess if both parties are aware of what they are getting into and how the other feels about these things. But of course that requires some pretty brutal honesty. You're saying you had five kids etc. with someone who you never found sexually satisfying. I guess it was just for the nice home, etc., the life he could provide? (As you say.)

 

Well it was certainly your free choice to get involved with someone you had no romantic feelings for. But if you bothered to actually read my post, this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about.

 

You don't get up one morning and say.. it's over.. I don,t want sex anymore.. it's over a loooong period of time... no one can pinpoint exactly what happened.. it's just happens... and I believe it's the same thing for million of married couples..

 

Well yes I can pinpoint what happened because you state what your attitude was in this post. Basically you never felt sexually excited by your partner but married him anyway for convenience's sake. Now obviously you must have started out having sex with him but apparently you were never satisfied by that sex? I assume you must have faked it your entire marriage or something? Clearly you could not possibly have been honest with your ex about your feelings.

 

And as you point out, you didn't cut off the sex suddenly, it was over a LONG period of time. Apparently despite a long warning period your ex didn't do anything to try and change things? I have the feeling however that a lot of people end up rewriting their marital history after a failed relationship. But the point is, the lack of sex that developed in your relationship was a clear indicator of serious relationship problems, beyond being a problem in itself. The problem was not solved and therefore the relationship was destroyed.

 

Your thoughts are too simplistic.. it's not quite how it works.. have you experienced 'zero libido' from your wife? I'm curious.

 

My thoughts are far from simplistic, they are actually very complex and sophisticated. Your level of understanding is inadequate to address the ideas I have raised. You do not even understand the "why" of your own breakup. Please don't accuse me of being simplistic simply because you do not understand, or do not want to try to understand, the ideas I am trying to express.

 

By the way, "zero libido" is irrelevant. That does not change the obligation of the partners to engage in regular sexual activity with each other. It is the sexual activity which generates the loving feeling and the libido, not the other way around. If I refused to have sex every time my wife initiated just because I didn't feel like it, I would only rarely have sex at all. Because generally I am tired at the end of most days. However once we get started I invariably find myself getting into it.

 

Perhaps if you had simply deigned to have sex with your ex rather than view it as a "favor" that you had no obligation to share with him you would have grown to love him. Maybe you really did love him originally (it's kind of hard to believe you never did) but once you got out of the habit of sex with him your emotional reserves for him dried up the same way your physical libido did.

 

In any case your relationship failed. Look to yourself for reasons why, not to me.

[In_Repair]

I can see Jeff's need to declare this, and it's nice to see this thread instead of one about how he has decided to have an affair. I hope it all works out, and it could. I don't see this as a declaration that you intend to bow down, but rather that you know you are falling short in some areas as a husband and that you intend to give it your all before giving up. Good. Like others have posted, the key to what you are trying to do is to honestly do it for yourself and nobody else. Maybe this will fix things with your wife, or maybe it will just teach you how to treat the next woman, one willing to give back all that she is given. That's the cold hard idea that needs to stay in the back of your mind.

 

I didn't have as long of a marriage as some of you guys, mine lasted for 10 years before it broke up because of her affair. At this point, about 14 months later, I'm glad that she had that affair. I would have spent the rest of my life trying to reinvent myself in order to make her think I was a "good man". Looking back, she wasn't a good enough woman either, and there is nothing in the world that I could have done on my own that would ever change that on a longterm basis. She simply did not feel the emotions for me that would allow her to break down certain walls. I did use that experience though to teach me what NOT to do and also what I needed to do more of. Don't waste your time trying to do this just to fix your marriage, do it to fix yourself.

 

Edit: Damn, I need to stop leaving threads open in the background here at work and posting so slowly. By the time I posted, another page of responses had been added.

Edited January 28, 2010 by In_Repair
added content

[Jeff1962]

I can see Jeff's need to declare this, and it's nice to see this thread instead of one about how he has decided to have an affair. I hope it all works out, and it could. I don't see this as a declaration that you intend to bow down, but rather that you know you are falling short in some areas as a husband and that you intend to give it your all before giving up. Good. Like others have posted, the key to what you are trying to do is to honestly do it for yourself and nobody else. Maybe this will fix things with your wife, or maybe it will just teach you how to treat the next woman, one willing to give back all that she is given. That's the cold hard idea that needs to stay in the back of your mind.

 

I whole heartedly hear you my friend. This is what is going on in my mind. Thank you.

[Jeff1962]

A quick cure for no sex from the wife is to tell her that you will get it elsewhere if things don't changed. Never go behind her back but be honest with her about your other options. It worked for my barber and I have heard about it working on other message boards. It does something to a woman when she knows her man has other options and will use them if need be.

 

I have actually had many chances. I'm in great shape and I am nice looking. I also posess a great personality and in person, I am funny. I know my qualities and I am very confident in myself in real life. Here, I can talk about my issues because I am faceless.

 

I choose to remain faithful because I love my wife. I made a promise to her on our wedding day to hold only unto her for better or worse. I intend to keep this promise until I can no longer keep it. IF this day comes. I would respect her and leaver her before I have an affair.

[Jeff1962]

Being faithful in a marriage should be a given from either end so that does not make a man a doormat but a woman should have to earn the kind of treatment you suggest. She should not get it simply becuase she is a woman and she certainly should not get it as a reward for being a witch to her husband and throwing emotional tantrums which is what many men do. If a woman does something genuinely nice for a man or is an all around loving wife then yes a man should treat her this way because she deserves it but if she is cold or unloving towards a man then she should get the same treatment in return.

 

My wife is actually a good person. She is thoughtful, a great mom, a friend.

 

I've realizied SOME of our sexual issues as of last nite. My wife is quick to orgasm both thru intercourse and oral. I on the other hand have always been slower to reach climax, this is how I have been with every woman, it's just how I am made. My wife always reach orgasm before me. Then she feels bad because I have not yet reached orgasm. I'm like, well hell, let's keep going. She get's frustrated and thinks that she does not do it for me. She get's upset, this puts pressure on me, then I put up a mental block. All the while I still have a raging hardon and I want to keep going. Then I start to feel weird because she has and I have not. This is not ALL of our issues but a portion of it.

[Buttnutter100]

I whole heartedly hear you my friend. This is what is going on in my mind. Thank you.

 

 

Jeff: I have read some of your back story. 20 year marriage, a giving husband, sexually deprived for no discernible reason.

 

Please don't get me wrong. Your efforts at self-improvement are commendable.

 

However: that doesn't change the fact that the basic problem you are experiencing is not enough sex in your marriage.

 

The solution to not enough sex is to have more sex. Unconditionally.

 

I guess Lizzie would consider that "simplistic." Simple, maybe. Simplistic? I don't think so.

 

Your wife, as many wives of sex-deprived husbands do, apparently believe that having sex with you on a regular basis is "conditional." Actually it is not. (I.e. lizzie was able to describe her sexless, loveless relationship as "great" EXCEPT for the lack of sex.)

 

"Conditional" on what? She has to "feel" like it? Why? Who made up that particular rule?

 

Again I am not talking about being a sex fiend. 2 - 3x a week, an hour or two of your time and your wife's time.

 

If your wife does NOT want to have sex at least that often, there is something wrong with HER. The problem is not that YOU need to find a "more sexual" partner. SHE is your partner. That was agreed to when you two got married. IOW she is shirking her marital obligation by not having sex with you. So the solution is not looking outside the marriage; it is for your WIFE to become MORE sexual than she currently is.

 

Part of being the "good husband" that you seek to improve yourself to be, is confronting your wife about her failings as a partner. She is unable to solve this problem on her own.

 

The easiest way for your wife to become more sexual and to have more sex is behavior modification. You have to actually set up a SCHEDULE to have sex. Let's say 2x/week, Saturdays and Wednesdays. Get a baby sitter or do whatever you have to, to block that sex time out on your schedules.

 

And you need to tell your wife that "this is the way it's going to be." Wednesdays and Saturdays are our "sex nights."

 

And you don't accept "no" for an answer. You lead the way. This may be difficult for you because you will have to change your own habits.

 

So on Saturday night at 8 p.m. or whenever, you and your wife go to bed. And have sex. Hopefully it will be good for both of you but since you're out of practice it might take quite a while to "get there." You might want to do various things to liven it up. That's up to you. And her.

 

And so your objective is simply to get yourself and your wife into the habit of having regular sex. Just like brushing your teeth.

 

If she absolutely refuses to physically touch you, then you have to have a very serious discussion with her about why she feels it necessary to inflict such emotional abuse on you. Because in that case Jeff the "problem" is not with you. It is with her. If she loves you, then she wants to give you physical pleasure even if her drive is lower than yours. If she loves you she will not tell you to find someone else to get it from.

[Lizzie60]

...................................no comments..

[Buttnutter100]

My wife is actually a good person. She is thoughtful, a great mom, a friend.

 

I've realizied SOME of our sexual issues as of last nite. My wife is quick to orgasm both thru intercourse and oral. I on the other hand have always been slower to reach climax, this is how I have been with every woman, it's just how I am made. My wife always reach orgasm before me. Then she feels bad because I have not yet reached orgasm. I'm like, well hell, let's keep going. She get's frustrated and thinks that she does not do it for me. She get's upset, this puts pressure on me, then I put up a mental block. All the while I still have a raging hardon and I want to keep going. Then I start to feel weird because she has and I have not. This is not ALL of our issues but a portion of it.

 

 

OK this is actually very hopeful because it suggests that the problem may simply be one of learning different sexual techniques which is something a qualified sex therapist can help you with. Your wife is very sexually responsive, not frigid. You turn her on. So why would she refuse your sexual overtures?

 

If the matter is simply one of timing, then change up your sexual practices somewhat. For example, the next time you have sex, why not have your wife bring you to orgasm FIRST? Some people just can't have simultaneous orgasms; most people don't usually. Your problem is the reverse of most couples, where the man orgasms too quickly and the wife is left unsatisfied.

 

Is there anything preventing you from taking turns? I mean if your wife is so concerned that you are not being satisfied, why can't she just make sure you have an orgasm first? If you have a greatly delayed ejaculation that might be some kind of medical problem so have your doctor check you out.

 

 

Again what you are talking about specifically here seems like something a sex therapist could help out with, i.e. suggesting various sexual techniques to help with the "timing."

 

I still don't understand why your wife would encourage you to get sex with someone else however. That is an indication of a more serious problem in the relationship.

 

In any event there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be having sex 2-3x/week.

[Kasan]

Is there anything preventing you from taking turns? I mean if your wife is so In any event there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be having sex 2-3x/week.

 

I'm curious....how long have you been married? Is your advice from personal experience in your 20+ year marriage?

 

I don't know any couple that has been married 20+ years having sex 2-3x a week.

[Buttnutter100]

Jeff, this is your very first post that I was able to find using the search function:

 

 

Been married for 20 years, 2 kids. We've had our up's and downs like any couple. Sex at times has been so, so. Then a long dry spell, then so, so another long dry spell. Then we go for each other like we did when we first met. Then so, so, then a very long dry spell. The last dry spell was 7 months.

 

My wife told me the other nite that she felt that I need someone who is more sexual. I was hurt over this and this is not a good sign at all. I'm confused. I pay attention to my wife. I rub her back when she wants me to, I rub her feet. I listen to her and not try to fix everything, I listen. I call and text her. I give her space when needed. I'm very lonely and hurt.

 

A little background. I was experienced when we met. She was a virgin. I hold a very high regard for my wife, her opinion of me matters very much. I cannot imagine being with anyone else. I love her. She is a friend that I do not want to loose.

 

Tonite we went to eat at a bar and grill. She saw a female aquaintance there and her date. Long story short, this gal starts coming on to me in front of her date and my wife. It was totally abvious, her date was uncomfortable. I can tell my wife is uncomfortable, I was uncomfortable. When we leave, my wife does not say a word about it, no mention at all. I know she was jelious, I would have been totally pissed. Her not even recognizing this happened hurts me and makes me feel like she does not care.

 

My wife is the only woman that I have truely loved. I'm tired of being alone. I can only masturbate so much. Maybe she is right, maybe I do need someone who is more sexually compatable. If this is true, then my heart is going to be more broken than it already is.

 

I just do not know what to do.

 

 

 

 

 

OK. Now here's your most recent post in this thread:

 

 

 

 

My wife is actually a good person. She is thoughtful, a great mom, a friend.

 

I've realizied SOME of our sexual issues as of last nite. My wife is quick to orgasm both thru intercourse and oral. I on the other hand have always been slower to reach climax, this is how I have been with every woman, it's just how I am made. My wife always reach orgasm before me. Then she feels bad because I have not yet reached orgasm. I'm like, well hell, let's keep going. She get's frustrated and thinks that she does not do it for me. She get's upset, this puts pressure on me, then I put up a mental block. All the while I still have a raging hardon and I want to keep going. Then I start to feel weird because she has and I have not. This is not ALL of our issues but a portion of it.

 

 

There's a big inconsistency in the two posts. The original post says there are long dry spells and your wife claims not to be a very sexual personal.

 

Yet, the above post indicates on the contrary that your wife is very responsive sexually. Someone who is basically very sexually responsive like your wife is, would not tolerate dry spells like that. It's like you're describing two different people.

 

Also, her suggesting that you should "find someone else" who is "more sexual" doesn't make much sense. Your description of your wife is as someone who is very sexual. Even if there's a sex problem however, a wife is never going to suggest that her husband find someone else to do it with, unless something else is going on.

 

Her sensitivity to another woman hitting on you also doesn't fit.

 

Lizzie told me I'm too simplistic. O.K. let's assume I'm off base and Lizzie's got a better grasp of the situation.

 

Lizzie stated that she stopped having sex over time with her ex because she didn't really love him "that way." But she apparently didn't stop having a libido; just stopped having it for her then-partner.

 

So if Lizzie is correct that suggests that your wife might be directing her sexual energies elsewhere. Maybe not physically just yet.

 

I hope that's not the case but Lizzie apparently as a woman was previously in a situation similar to your wife's. Her ex sounds just like you are.

 

I think you need to be very direct with your wife and ask her if there is someone else.

[JamesM]

Butternut... you have noooo idea what you're talking about..

 

If men had 2-3 times of sex/week.. they wouldn't even be here..

 

I am a woman.. and I've been there... with my first ex.. everything was great except I just didn't want sex anymore.. with him.. why?? not sure.. I didn't love him like that.. I loved him like a brother.. not a lover.. I was comfortable in our life.. nice home, 5 kids altogether.. good jobs, cars, etc.. etc... but sex was a sacrifice... simple as that...

 

You don't get up one morning and say.. it's over.. I don,t want sex anymore.. it's over a loooong period of time... no one can pinpoint exactly what happened.. it's just happens... and I believe it's the same thing for million of married couples..

 

Your thoughts are too simplistic.. it's not quite how it works.. have you experienced 'zero libido' from your wife? I'm curious.

 

I agree. And your statement about 2 to 3 times a week is correct and not correct. It would rather be said that if men had enough sex, then they wouldn't be here...at least not about sex.

 

While I won't say your ideas are simplistic, butternut, I will say that they don't IMO indicate the experiences and frustrations of many men. In fact, I cannot say that you have even experienced a wife with no libido.

 

Again, I ask the question that Lizzie asked of which I cannot find an answer from you.....

 

Have you experienced either (a) a sexless marriage or (b) a wife who lost complete interest in sex with you or © simply had no libido at all?

 

Are all of your ideas and "solutions" based on what you have read or based on what you yourself have put into practice? Do you assume that (if you do not have a sexless marriage) that what you are doing is WHY you do not have a sexless marriage?

 

Please answer. It would help your cause and our discussion.

 

I think if you are having sex signficantly less than 2 - 3x a week for an extended period of time, and you are in a committed, exclusive relationship, with no obvious health problems preventing sex from occurring, then you are not devoting sufficient time/effort/energy to this fundamental part of any loving relationship between mature adults. IMO.

 

I am glad you added your opinion, because two things....some men don't think 2 to 3 times is enough and others think it is too much. Personally, it would be too much for me.

 

What you mean to say, I am guessing, is that if both partners don't feel that there is enough sex then.....

 

Now I also disagree with the added part that it means not enough time is being devoted. While I have spent hours researching every possible reason for our lack of sex (and it would be seven times last year that we had sex), and while I have talked with my wife many times about why she is not interested in sex, I would never say that all of that time has translated into more sex. In fact, it has not.

 

Better said...is that I have not found the right reason for her lack of interest. And honestly, I can do all of the research I want, but if she will not tell me what the problem is, then we will never have a solution. If she will never take the time to determine why (if she does not already know) she lost interest in sex, then we will remain as we are.

 

You say that MEN should determine the problem. It is MEN'S responsibility. I have no argument with the idea that the one who wants more sex should research the problem (because many women live with a husband who does not want sex, too), but in reality, it will take both people working together.

 

And as Lizzie has said, if one simply has no attraction for the other, then nothing can change unless that attraction can be regained.

 

How many orgasms? Well I guess that depends on the people involved, but the point is, the man should not be selfish when having sex. He should strive to ensure that his woman finds it to be pleasurable, exciting, and enjoyable.

 

Odd that you should mention this. I guarantee that she would say that our problem was not because of selfishness on my part. And while I do not say I am a great sexual partner, I can say that even now when we have sex, she actually enjoys it. She simply never has a need for it.

 

Even when my wife had interest in sex, she actually wanted me to have more quickies with her. There were many times that she wanted sex for my pleasure as a way to show her appreciation and love for me. This meant me having all of the pleasure.

 

This was very difficult for me to accept, but she felt put off of I did not want to simply accept it as "a gift."

 

I don't think this can be necessarily a reason for no sex. It can be if the man simply takes and never gives, and if the woman feels that her man is being selfish, but to use it as a generality, I say no.

 

Without it there is an almost 100% chance that the relationship will have serious problems of one kind or another, aside from the lack of sex.

 

I actually agree with you finally, but I am going to add a caveat. If one person misses sex and the other does not, then the only way there will be serious problems is if the one who misses it, strays or does something negative to the marriage as a result. If the lack of interest for sex is a separate issue of the emotional aspect of the relationship, then it will not by itself cause major problems in the marriage.

 

As someone who knows this from experience, I miss the sex, but I love my wife for who she is and what she provides for the family and I. I focus on the many great things about her and we still hug and kiss. If I dwelt upon the lack of sex, then yes, the major problems in our marriage would arise as a result of her lack of libido. Technically even though it is a result of her lack of libido, it would actually be because of a free will choice on my part. This excuses neither of us, but I know that because I choose not to let the sexlessness cause major problems, then it does not.

 

Interesting ideas, but I still wonder if they are from experiences or from an intellectual only point of view.

[Buttnutter100]

I'm curious....how long have you been married? Is your advice from personal experience in your 20+ year marriage?

 

I don't know any couple that has been married 20+ years having sex 2-3x a week.

 

 

Sure you do. (Actually together 19+, married 16+, close enough to 20 I guess).

 

That's not to say we haven't had our ups and downs. The point is it takes a LOT of EFFORT to maintain a decent level of sexual activity in a long term relationship. What used to be "automatic" now has to be the product of planning and deliberation.

 

Sex isn't just a side dish of a relationship; it's one of the main courses.

[Kasan]

Sure you do. (Actually together 19+, married 16+, close enough to 20 I guess).

 

That's not to say we haven't had our ups and downs. The point is it takes a LOT of EFFORT to maintain a decent level of sexual activity in a long term relationship. What used to be "automatic" now has to be the product of planning and deliberation.

 

Sex isn't just a side dish of a relationship; it's one of the main courses.

 

So when's your book coming out? :)

[threebyfate]

I'll openly admit to not reading the posts in this thread, so if I'm repeating something, my apologies.

 

Jeff, I think becoming the person that you want to be, is a great idea, all around. No matter what happens with your marriage, self-improvement is never a waste! Once a person stagnates, they might was well be dead.

[JamesM]

There's a big inconsistency in the two posts. The original post says there are long dry spells and your wife claims not to be a very sexual personal.

 

Yet, the above post indicates on the contrary that your wife is very responsive sexually. Someone who is basically very sexually responsive like your wife is, would not tolerate dry spells like that. It's like you're describing two different people.

 

Also, her suggesting that you should "find someone else" who is "more sexual" doesn't make much sense. Your description of your wife is as someone who is very sexual. Even if there's a sex problem however, a wife is never going to suggest that her husband find someone else to do it with, unless something else is going on.

 

I actually agree with this. One caveat is that a woman can say that you should find someone else out of frustration. She could sense that she is inadequate to your needs and say that as a way to get reassurance that you do not want someone else.

 

BTW, if you search my past threads, you will find a thread that I started because my wife said that exact phrase. "If sex is that important to you, then you may have to get it elsewhere."

 

So, Jeff, I know what you are going through. The problem is...I don't have a solution for my own either. Of course, that doesn't mean that one of the things I tried may not actually be the solution for your marital problems.

 

You have three choices....

1. Live with it.

2. Leave it.

3. Fix it.

 

My idea is that we should always try to fix a problem before we live with it or leave it. And that means exhausting every possibility even if it takes months.

[Woggle]

I have actually had many chances. I'm in great shape and I am nice looking. I also posess a great personality and in person, I am funny. I know my qualities and I am very confident in myself in real life. Here, I can talk about my issues because I am faceless.

 

I choose to remain faithful because I love my wife. I made a promise to her on our wedding day to hold only unto her for better or worse. I intend to keep this promise until I can no longer keep it. IF this day comes. I would respect her and leaver her before I have an affair.

 

I actually don't believe in cheating but if all else fails telling a woman you will get it elsewhere can work. My barber never actually cheated but his wife knew he was done trying to please her when nothing seemed to make her happy and she changed her tune after that.

[Buttnutter100]

I agree. And your statement about 2 to 3 times a week is correct and not correct. It would rather be said that if men had enough sex, then they wouldn't be here...at least not about sex.

 

2-3x a week I picked as an "average." If BOTH parties have a very low libido level and don't want it that much, then that's fine. By their very nature conversations of these subjects have to be pretty general, each relationship is unique. What I am saying however is I do not think 2-3x a week is an unreasonably excessive amount of sex for one partner to expect to have, it's a low enough level that the lower libido partner is probably the one with the "problem."

 

 

While I won't say your ideas are simplistic, butternut, I will say that they don't IMO indicate the experiences and frustrations of many men. In fact, I cannot say that you have even experienced a wife with no libido.

 

Well let's say one of the partners (usually the female it seems) claims to have "no libido." I.e. no sex drive, supposedly. Is that healthy? No. Is it "normal"? No. Should there be an expectation that the other partner who has a healthy sex drive should accept a sexless marriage? No.

 

Zero libido is no excuse for having zero sex. (Or close to zero.) Not in a supposedly committed, loving, marital relationship. Zero sex is not a "solution" to the zero libido problem. Having sex, or not having it, is a voluntary act.

 

I have an obligation to get up in the morning and go to work. Many times I don't feel like it. I.e. I have a "zero work libido." Does that mean I get to take the day off from work? Nope. It means I drink my two cups of coffee, do pushups, take a nice shower, do whatever it takes to get myself revved up to have a productive day at work.

 

Sex is or should be absolutely no different.

 

 

 

 

Again, I ask the question that Lizzie asked of which I cannot find an answer from you.....

 

Have you experienced either (a) a sexless marriage or (b) a wife who lost complete interest in sex with you or © simply had no libido at all?

 

Not exactly. But, I have experienced a wife who I found out cheated on me in the past multiple times and who also admitted recently that she was never sexually satisfied with me. EVER. Even on our honeymoon. So when I finally found that out I decided our relationship needed to change. And I haven't been very subtle about those changes. So far we are doing O.K. Part of those changes--on both are parts--is to greatly reemphasize the importance and priority of sex and other forms of physical and emotional intimacy in our relationship. I used to be very frustrated sexually but I didn't really know why. It was because my wife was never satisfied with me but had kept that to herself (faked it if you want to call it that) for our ENTIRE relationship. I think we are both far more happy than we used to be. But obviously it takes constant attention and effort. Sex and physical intimacy is very important to me and I think to my wife.

 

 

Are all of your ideas and "solutions" based on what you have read or based on what you yourself have put into practice? Do you assume that (if you do not have a sexless marriage) that what you are doing is WHY you do not have a sexless marriage?

 

Please answer. It would help your cause and our discussion.

 

A combination of experience, trial and error, and desperation. My marriage was never "sexless" in that respect. But how would you like to find out after 16 years of marriage that every time your wife ever had sex with you, she was fantasizing about other men in order to achieve orgasm? Every. Single. Time. (She always had her eyes closed and I always wondered what she was thinking about. Finally after I found out about her past affairs I demanded absolute honesty in our relationship and somehow this other revelation came out of her.)

 

So, what do you think is worse? Infrequent sex but when you have it at least your wife enjoys it with you? Or finding out that your wife faked it every time while fantasizing about other men? We all have to suffer through our particular issues and far be it from me to say my situation is better or worse than anyone else's. But you see I came here for a reason.

 

 

 

I am glad you added your opinion, because two things....some men don't think 2 to 3 times is enough and others think it is too much. Personally, it would be too much for me.

 

What you mean to say, I am guessing, is that if both partners don't feel that there is enough sex then.....

 

Like I said, we are generalizing a lot by the nature of the conversation.

 

 

 

Now I also disagree with the added part that it means not enough time is being devoted. While I have spent hours researching every possible reason for our lack of sex (and it would be seven times last year that we had sex), and while I have talked with my wife many times about why she is not interested in sex, I would never say that all of that time has translated into more sex. In fact, it has not.

 

OK maybe I wasn't clear. When I said "time" I didn't mean "time" researching the problem or reading books. I meant actual time being physically intimate with each other. There's no extra credit for also doing homework. The "time" that counts is the time when you are actually physically intimate, holding each other, etc. In other words you don't have more sex by reading about how to have more sex. You have more sex by actually having it.

 

In other areas of life that we want to prioritize making time for, what do we do? We schedule it. We block it out on our calenders. And then we go do the activity even if we might not particularly feel like it. We go to work when we don't feel like it. We exercise when we don't feel like it. We get the oil changed when we don't feel like it. We pay the bills when we don't feel like it.

 

And you know what? When we actually do these things, we often find that it's the "doing" of the action that makes us feel good, having done it. IMO sex is no different. The feeling follows the action. In many cases.

 

 

Better said...is that I have not found the right reason for her lack of interest. And honestly, I can do all of the research I want, but if she will not tell me what the problem is, then we will never have a solution. If she will never take the time to determine why (if she does not already know) she lost interest in sex, then we will remain as we are.

 

Most likely (assuming she is not having an affair or something major like that) it is simply you both lost the habit of having sex because you failed to prioritize it. Again: think in terms of behavior modification. Not having regular sex is essentially a bad habit that many couples fall into. Like not exercising right, or not doing anything else that you should do. She can't tell you the problem if she doesn't know what it is. This might be a little to "zen" for some people, but the problem is the thing itself, or rather, the failure to do the thing itself, the thing meaning "having sex." Don't look for an underlying problem.

 

It's like alcoholism. Yes originally an alcoholic may have all kinds of issues that drive them to drink. Ultimately however their main problem is the alcoholism itself. And the solution is to stop drinking. I think many relationship problems arise from the failure to have regular healthy sex, not the other way around. I think people confuse cause and effect.

 

You say that MEN should determine the problem. It is MEN'S responsibility. I have no argument with the idea that the one who wants more sex should research the problem (because many women live with a husband who does not want sex, too), but in reality, it will take both people working together.

 

And as Lizzie has said, if one simply has no attraction for the other, then nothing can change unless that attraction can be regained.

 

Yes. If a man complains because his sex life is inadequate then it's his obligation to try to solve it. But I didn't say "research" the problem. I said "have more sex." I disagree with Lizzie because the assumption is that one wants to try to maintain the relationship. If one does not care about the relationship, then fine, don't have sex, the relationship will ultimately end as Lizzie's did from her ex. Actually Lizzie said that she NEVER had attraction to her ex, which is another issue entirely. I would say getting married to someone to whom you have no sexual attraction is kind of cynical and manipulative. (Applicable to my own wife perhaps.) But the difference between Lizzie and my wife is that my wife wanted to have that kind of loving relationship with me and is working on it with me. Also my wife did not say she totally lacked attraction to me, just that she couldn't get over the top unless she fantasized about other guys. So yes it's a matter of what you WANT. My wife wanted to have a loving relationship with me. That includes sex. My wife seems to enjoy it. I suspect Lizzie could have enjoyed it as well (indeed I doubt she never enjoyed it, she probably just rewrote her marital history, but we'll never know will we).

 

 

 

Odd that you should mention this. I guarantee that she would say that our problem was not because of selfishness on my part. And while I do not say I am a great sexual partner, I can say that even now when we have sex, she actually enjoys it. She simply never has a need for it.

 

Even when my wife had interest in sex, she actually wanted me to have more quickies with her. There were many times that she wanted sex for my pleasure as a way to show her appreciation and love for me. This meant me having all of the pleasure.

 

Everyone healthy human being has a need for sex. Even your wife. Part of what I am trying to communicate is that it is not helpful to deny basic biology and basic human nature in order to look away from a possible solution to the problem because that solution might involve an unpleasant emotional confrontation. Your wife may be successful in suppressing her need but that need still exists. Also, the fact that your wife is supposedly content with a bad sex life is extremely distressing and a symptom of a larger problem in your relationship (and in all these relationships).

 

Why does your wife think it OK for you to be sexually dissatisfied? Does she not see that SHE has an obligation to you, her partner, to your sexual satisfaction? If not, why not?

 

This was very difficult for me to accept, but she felt put off of I did not want to simply accept it as "a gift."

 

I don't think this can be necessarily a reason for no sex. It can be if the man simply takes and never gives, and if the woman feels that her man is being selfish, but to use it as a generality, I say no.

 

Women deny sex to their men as a power issue. They will never admit that to you but that's precisely what is going on. They are raised culturally to engage in sex not for its own sake or as part of a romantic relationship but rather as "currency" to be exchanged for something else. In Lizzie's case she initially exchanged sex with her ex, at least for a while, in exchange for a nice lifestyle. She used her sexuality as a currency. Apparently my own wife did something similar with me.

 

Your wife denies you sex because she has what she wants in the relationship on a non-sexual basis, and does not understand that her sexuality is not simply to be used as relationship "currency." She does not understand that she, you and the relationship itself would greatly benefit from changing her entire attitude towards what sex is all about. She does not understand any of this because she has never consciously confronted the ingrained cultural attitude about sex that women often have. That she was raised, as Lizzie was raised, as my wife was raised, as all those women on other threads insisting men should always pay for the first day at a fancy restaurant, were raised--to believe that their sexuality was a "quid pro quo" to be engaged in not for its own wonderful sake, or to cement an emotional relationship with a partner, but for "other things."

 

 

 

 

I actually agree with you finally, but I am going to add a caveat. If one person misses sex and the other does not, then the only way there will be serious problems is if the one who misses it, strays or does something negative to the marriage as a result. If the lack of interest for sex is a separate issue of the emotional aspect of the relationship, then it will not by itself cause major problems in the marriage.

 

I disagree with you. If one person is dissatisfied, the whole relationship suffers. When the relationship suffers, both parties suffer. It is a team effort. The attitude you're expressing here is like the wide receiver who doesn't care if his team loses as long as the ball is thrown his way.

 

As someone who knows this from experience, I miss the sex, but I love my wife for who she is and what she provides for the family and I. I focus on the many great things about her and we still hug and kiss. If I dwelt upon the lack of sex, then yes, the major problems in our marriage would arise as a result of her lack of libido. Technically even though it is a result of her lack of libido, it would actually be because of a free will choice on my part. This excuses neither of us, but I know that because I choose not to let the sexlessness cause major problems, then it does not.

 

When I found out about my wife's issues yes I loved her but I was also honest enough to admit and express my deep resentment for what she had done to our relationship. You may also love your wife but pretending that you don't deeply resent the denial of sex is not going to be helpful to resolving your issues. The sexlessness IS a major problem and is also a source of other collateral problems. You may choose to suck it up but sucking it up is what you are doing--glossing over the problem because you see no way to solve it. That does not mean it does not exist.

 

Interesting ideas, but I still wonder if they are from experiences or from an intellectual only point of view.

 

Take what you think is useful, if any; leave the rest. YMMV.

[Buttnutter100]

So when's your book coming out? :)

 

You know that's pretty LOL funny. I hope and pray what I'm doing with my wife is the right thing, but for all I know, she could walk in the door tomorrow and tell me she's leaving me for the Fed Ex man and I'm not sure that would come as a shock.

[redtail]

etc...

I don't know any couple that has been married 20+ years having sex 2-3x a week.

 

Hell, I've been married for a total of 30+ years and I have sex 2-3x a week. Wait, did you mean married to the same person?