For the men

[jerbear]

Most, if not all men cannot detect a fake O...

I have to agree on this one, it took me awhile to find out which is real, fake, a REAL intense O, or "eh?, whatever" (real but not intense).

 

Even a woman with a "eh?, whatever" O can have an really intense one; with the same partner eventually you'll figure it out.

[Lizzie60]

Jeff... I re-did your list..

 

Most women cheat. ... but more men do...

 

Men don't get enough sex... just read the forum about it on here..

 

Most women lie... so do men...

Most women are invovled with another MM. Then cry because they got their heart broke.... I would say that there are more men involved in A (the statistics are out there)

 

There is not much room for honesty... I agree..

It's better to fake an orgasm than be honest about your feelings... again I agree..

Drag me around by the hair because then you are a real man. Oh yeah baby! That's what I like, lol...,. Ouch.. not me.. but I like a guy with testosterone..

Some expect the worse from their partners and only give this in return... maybe..

 

Jeff... good for you if your W doesn't fake it... I post my thoughts from the feeling I have from YOUR posts.. you said yourself that she climaxed within 2-3 min.. you never said that this happened only twice or three times in 10 years..(or if I missed it, please cut and paste) you never answered my question (how long does it usually takes YOU to reach your climax)...

 

This is a public forum.. and we are all allowed to post our comments as long as we're being respectful... and I can very well understand that when those comments hit a 'sensible' nerve it could hurt.. but sometimes those are the comments that make you SEE things differently and could possibly help you see what is REALLY going on in your couple..

 

Whatever Jeff... I know you're a good guy .. and I wish you the best.. seriously..

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

So far what I have gathered from this web site in general is this, if I want to play the same game as you cynics:

 

Most women cheat.

 

Men don't get enough sex.

 

Most women lie.

 

Most women are invovled with another MM. Then cry because they got their heart broke.

 

There is not much room for honesty.

 

It's better to fake an orgasm than be honest about your feelings.

 

Drag me around by the hair because then you are a real man. Oh yeah baby! That's what I like, lol.

 

Some expect the worse from their partners and only give this in return.

 

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

Others only tend to project their own lies and decietful nature upon others. If this applies to you, then you will know.

 

I agree that these boards have many members who subscribe to these views or other negative views (dare I call them 'cynics?').

 

Positive energy flows well in a relationship when both partners put positive energy in. I quit subscribing to the negative views and perspectives.

 

In turn, I figured out that I shouldn't sit around waiting for positive energy to be put in by my partner... it didn't take long for her to turn around once she saw the man who she wanted - one who is committed and will do the work it takes to allow the relationship to not only 'work,' but also flourish!

[Jeff1962]

Jeff,

 

you're sexually frustrated because (according to you) it takes you too long to achieve orgasm when having sex with your wife. Your wife (according to you) is extremely responsive so that's not an issue. However she gets frustrated by your inability to ejaculate in what, to her, is a reasonable length of time after initiating intercourse.

 

This is a very specific problem which can be solved but you and your wife need to seek counseling with a qualified sex therapist.

 

If you are truly interested in "improving" your self AND your relationship with your wife, you would insist that the two of you have a consultation with a sex therapist.

 

Thank you.

[Jeff1962]

I agree that these boards have many members who subscribe to these views or other negative views (dare I call them 'cynics?').

 

Positive energy flows well in a relationship when both partners put positive energy in. I quit subscribing to the negative views and perspectives.

 

In turn, I figured out that I shouldn't sit around waiting for positive energy to be put in by my partner... it didn't take long for her to turn around once she saw the man who she wanted - one who is committed and will do the work it takes to allow the relationship to not only 'work,' but also flourish!

 

Good man.

[Jeff1962]

Jeff... I re-did your list..

 

Most women cheat. ... but more men do...

 

Men don't get enough sex... just read the forum about it on here..

 

Most women lie... so do men...

 

Most women are invovled with another MM. Then cry because they got their heart broke.... I would say that there are more men involved in A (the statistics are out there)

 

There is not much room for honesty... I agree..

 

It's better to fake an orgasm than be honest about your feelings... again I agree..

 

Drag me around by the hair because then you are a real man. Oh yeah baby! That's what I like, lol...,. Ouch.. not me.. but I like a guy with testosterone..

 

Some expect the worse from their partners and only give this in return... maybe..

 

 

Jeff... good for you if your W doesn't fake it... I post my thoughts from the feeling I have from YOUR posts.. you said yourself that she climaxed within 2-3 min.. you never said that this happened only twice or three times in 10 years..(or if I missed it, please cut and paste) you never answered my question (how long does it usually takes YOU to reach your climax)...

 

This is a public forum.. and we are all allowed to post our comments as long as we're being respectful... and I can very well understand that when those comments hit a 'sensible' nerve it could hurt.. but sometimes those are the comments that make you SEE things differently and could possibly help you see what is REALLY going on in your couple..

 

Whatever Jeff... I know you're a good guy .. and I wish you the best.. seriously..

 

I feel no ill feelings toward you. It can take me a half hour to reach climax. This does not mean it's constant pounding the whole time. My wife does not ALWAYS reach orgasm withn 2-3 minutes. I posted that a few time we both came together within that amount of time, A FEW TIMES. She does however orgasm before me about 98% of the time. I know my wife.

[Jeff1962]

I still think it's very difficult for a man to ever be SURE that a particular "o" is not being faked to a greater or lesser extent, even if the relationship with the woman is an LTR. Also it's my understanding the intensity of "o's" can vary in strength.

 

I would think the best indicators would be involuntary muscle reactions--i.e. if your finger is in her anus, and as she's writhing on the bed screaming while vigorously diddling her clit, you feel her vaginal muscles rythmically clamping on your penis, while her anus is doing the same "in time" to what her vagina is doing; it's reasonably likely that that "o" might be real as opposed to fake.

 

You watch too much porn.

[Lizzie60]

I still think it's very difficult for a man to ever be SURE that a particular "o" is not being faked to a greater or lesser extent, even if the relationship with the woman is an LTR. Also it's my understanding the intensity of "o's" can vary in strength.

 

I would think the best indicators would be involuntary muscle reactions--i.e. if your finger is in her anus, and as she's writhing on the bed screaming while vigorously diddling her clit, you feel her vaginal muscles rythmically clamping on your penis, while her anus is doing the same "in time" to what her vagina is doing; it's reasonably likely that that "o" might be real as opposed to fake.

 

kegels will make exactly that.. your anus will be in time with the vaginal contractions.. it's automatic.. so ... no.. if she contracts her vagina.. the anus will contract too...

[mem11363]

Why would she stop before you finish? If you are HARD all the way through then it is totally obvious you are aroused by her. This whole excuse of "you must not be attracted to me" just doesn't sound honest. All the women I know recognize that an erection = highly aroused male.

 

Most sexually averse people lie about sex. This is the most creative reason I have ever heard for avoiding sex. When combined with all your other comments about your marriage this paints a very consistent and not good picture.

 

 

 

 

I feel no ill feelings toward you. It can take me a half hour to reach climax. This does not mean it's constant pounding the whole time. My wife does not ALWAYS reach orgasm withn 2-3 minutes. I posted that a few time we both came together within that amount of time, A FEW TIMES. She does however orgasm before me about 98% of the time. I know my wife.

[giotto]

W This is the most creative reason I have ever heard for avoiding sex. When combined with all your other comments about

your marriage this paints a very consistent and not good picture.

 

come on... getting hard can be mechanical... climaxing is a different thing... it's all in your head... (not yours, mem...)

[NoIDidn't]

Of course these women don't understand the female physiology of an O... because kegels ARE a part of the faking-it..

 

some women........

 

Are you saying that O fakers would actually take the time to squeeze their kegels just to trick a man into believing they had an O?!! What a waste of time! I don't understand why one would put so much effort into being fake. Some do the kegels to enhance the experience, not to get out of doing it. Yeah....some women......

 

James trust me.. especially your W (nurse) she knows how an O works... you wouldn't detect it... (and again I'm not saying that she fakes)..

 

Are you suggesting that a man wouldn't be able to detect the muscles of the vagina clamping down on him rhythmicly?

 

How big of a vagina are you anticipating here? LOL. The average male can feel a woman's O. We aren't just talking about your experiences alone, here.

[NoIDidn't]

kegels will make exactly that.. your anus will be in time with the vaginal contractions.. it's automatic.. so ... no.. if she contracts her vagina.. the anus will contract too...

 

This is not entirely true. A woman can flex her kegels without affecting her anal splincher. Its a matter of focus and isolation. She doesn't have this kind of control during a true O, though.

[Lizzie60]

Are you saying that O fakers would actually take the time to squeeze their kegels just to trick a man into believing they had an O?!! What a waste of time! I don't understand why one would put so much effort into being fake. Some do the kegels to enhance the experience, not to get out of doing it. Yeah....some women......

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that a man wouldn't be able to detect the muscles of the vagina clamping down on him rhythmicly?

 

How big of a vagina are you anticipating here? LOL. The average male can feel a woman's O. We aren't just talking about your experiences alone, here.

 

WOW... you do have problem understanding my post.. don't you...

[Lizzie60]

This is not entirely true. A woman can flex her kegels without affecting her anal splincher. Its a matter of focus and isolation. She doesn't have this kind of control during a true O' date=' though.[/quote']

 

 

Again... WOW.. I just can't believe what I'm reading..

You obviously never done kegels..

 

nuff said..

[NoIDidn't]

Again... WOW.. I just can't believe what I'm reading..

You obviously never done kegels..

 

nuff said..

 

That was just my point. I have done them. And I can isolate them from the splincher.

 

Maybe the problem is that we can't see each other's points of view because we have different "skill sets".

[NoIDidn't]

WOW... you do have problem understanding my post.. don't you...

 

That is why I asked questions.

 

Can you explain what you meant without rolling your eyes?

[Jeff1962]

i have never in my life faked an o. I don't see the point.

 

And the man who can't tell is just not paying attention. The way that a woman's body responds during one is something they can feel and see, if they are paying attention.

thank you!

[mem11363]

NDB,

Has it nailed. This is very close to how we do it. Works great. My comment about demanding respect is simple. When needing to change an existing pattern - a broken pattern of behavior, you need to draw some lines initially that are completely hard and equally symmetrical. So I demand respect in exactly the way I give it to others. The OP simply struggles with this since he fears it will create MORE conflict, for certain it will create LESS conflict.

 

Jeff needs to have a conversation with his wife about the areas she mosts thinks he could improve in - and what specifically she feels he should do. And Jeff needs to have that identical talk with her - regarding her treatment of him, and their sex life. And AT MIMIMUM she needs to get a short time window to open up with Jeff about how he can decrease activities that turn her off and increase those that turn her on. With the commitment being that the beginning of the following month, sex is had weekly at minimum.

 

 

Jeff,

 

I think it may be in the way you phrase it, coupled with this cynical crowd. And to be honest, it's a little ...ummm...startling to hear such pronouncement from a guy with no context (since you are the OP). It's not how men are supposed to act in this culture. Men suppress, men control, men ignore emotions to get at facts and solutions. But I have to say that once I get past that, I see what you are trying to say.

 

The cynical crowd is trying to equate a husband's providing emotional support, closeness, affirmation, and attention to a wife with being weak and being stepped on. It may be true in some cases, but it all depends on context.

 

Here's my point. My pastor is great at creating a sense of support, empathy, and caring and attention with whomever he addresses at that time. It's unmistakable when you speak with him. But he's nobody's doormat and the only deity he worships is up there, not down here on earth. He's the indisputable leader of the church and nobody can say that he's a pushover.

 

I for one believe in that model. A husband can be a compassionate and loving leader in the family. I may be stoned by the feminist crowd but if my family were a band, I see myself as the conductor. I'm not a dictator, but my job is to provide a supportive, loving, and FUN environment for them to be who they want to be.

 

In that framework, I acknowledge my responsibility to provide emotional support, encouragement, and unconditional love to my kids. They know I'll jump through a burning building for them, and I doubt that knowledge makes them think I'm a pushover or a doormat.

 

I also acknowledge my responsibility to provide emotional support and closeness, attention and romance to my wife. She needs someone to listen to her feelings (she's smart enough to solve most problems--she needs someone to air out what she feels and I'm that ear). She needs a husband to tell her she's still pretty, to plan dates and surprise her now and then with small romantic gestures and big sweep-her-off-her-feet type of event once in a while. She needs to feel security (financial, emotional, physical) from her protective husband. My wife knows she's lucky to have it...she's no dummies. She has friends and she tells me that she's lucky I talk to her and share my worries and happy feelings with her and we do things together. I strongly doubt she thinks I'm a pushover because she comes to me for decisions all the time, and we rarely ever turn each other's down for sex (and always with a firm raincheck if one of us needs to).

 

May be that's the difference. My wife is content and FEELs lucky that I am who I am and tells me so. She is fierce in keeping our relationship from being another front in the battle of the sexes because she sees it (as I do) that it doesn't concern us.

 

I guess I chose well and went through a bunch of *shivers* unhappy relationships with some seriously narcissistic types before settling down into marriage. To be fair, some of those women wouldn't have fit well into my vision of marriage, and that's okay. They can find their own happiness. That's why they are exes.

 

In a way, it is a two-way street. Her being content and openly appreciative and brags about me to her friends and shows appreciation makes me feel secure to do the things that she needs from me: loving attention, emotional sharing, little things to let her know I think about her, etc. And encourage me to be on sites like these to learn more about what makes women tick, what screws up relationships, what works, etc...so I can conduct my marriage life with greater finesse.

 

It is not a model for everyone but she's happy and I am happy, and that's all I give a f$ck about, not anyone else's cynical vision of the world. Life is short.

[giotto]

NDB,

Has it nailed. This is very close to how we do it. Works great. My comment about demanding respect is simple. When needing to change an existing pattern - a broken pattern of behavior, you need to draw some lines initially that are completely hard and equally symmetrical. So I demand respect in exactly the way I give it to others. The OP simply struggles with this since he fears it will create MORE conflict, for certain it will create LESS conflict.

 

Jeff needs to have a conversation with his wife about the areas she mosts thinks he could improve in - and what specifically she feels he should do. And Jeff needs to have that identical talk with her - regarding her treatment of him, and their sex life. And AT MIMIMUM she needs to get a short time window to open up with Jeff about how he can decrease activities that turn her off and increase those that turn her on. With the commitment being that the beginning of the following month, sex is had weekly at minimum.

 

the problem with this approach regarding sex is that you are basically forcing your wife to do something she doesn't want to do, or at least not at that frequency. She will tell you it's fine, but it isn't... and as a man I would hate to have sex with my wife knowing that she is doing it for me, but she'd rather be somewhere else... we compromised on sex and guess what? It went very well at the beginning, but in the space of a few months it's gone back to the usual routine... once every couple of weeks or maybe even once a month... the last straw was my wife telling me she wasn't particularly "turned on" a couple of days ago after a whole month without sex...

 

Believe me, what you and NDB say might work for a few, but most of us are stuck with unrensponsive wives who are not really bothered about sex at all and nothing we do works... they just have very little sex drives... now you can tell I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not... I can assure you... it's just the luck of the draw...

[mem11363]

Not saying you are doing anything wrong.

 

I thought you gave your wife a quota a few years ago. I also thought that she mostly followed it - supposed to be weekly - ended up being every 10 days. And then when that eventually slacked I thought you told her last fall maybe you two should end it and she promised to make more effort.

 

So it seems there is some up and down on this. I also think that you Giotto would feel angry/tense/rejected much more then you do, if you were having zero sex. Because at that point - to me - it means your wife is so totally indifferent to your needs it becomes hard to even see her as your wife.

 

 

the problem with this approach regarding sex is that you are basically forcing your wife to do something she doesn't want to do, or at least not at that frequency. She will tell you it's fine, but it isn't... and as a man I would hate to have sex with my wife knowing that she is doing it for me, but she'd rather be somewhere else... we compromised on sex and guess what? It went very well at the beginning, but in the space of a few months it's gone back to the usual routine... once every couple of weeks or maybe even once a month... the last straw was my wife telling me she wasn't particularly "turned on" a couple of days ago after a whole month without sex...

 

Believe me, what you and NDB say might work for a few, but most of us are stuck with unrensponsive wives who are not really bothered about sex at all and nothing we do works... they just have very little sex drives... now you can tell I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not... I can assure you... it's just the luck of the draw...

[mem11363]

The approach I suggest does imply that the man can be sexually acceptable to his wife. If he can get there - and it may require him changing some things about him self - hygiene, clothing, fitness, certain behavioral things. If he can get there, once a week is NO problem. But overall my view is to work on yourself while in parallel you work 3 big factors. Love, guilt and fear. If you can get the love to work, thats best. But guilt and fear can fill in when there isn't enough blood.

 

 

the problem with this approach regarding sex is that you are basically forcing your wife to do something she doesn't want to do, or at least not at that frequency. She will tell you it's fine, but it isn't... and as a man I would hate to have sex with my wife knowing that she is doing it for me, but she'd rather be somewhere else... we compromised on sex and guess what? It went very well at the beginning, but in the space of a few months it's gone back to the usual routine... once every couple of weeks or maybe even once a month... the last straw was my wife telling me she wasn't particularly "turned on" a couple of days ago after a whole month without sex...

 

Believe me, what you and NDB say might work for a few, but most of us are stuck with unrensponsive wives who are not really bothered about sex at all and nothing we do works... they just have very little sex drives... now you can tell I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not... I can assure you... it's just the luck of the draw...

[giotto]

it means your wife is so totally indifferent to your needs it becomes hard to even see her as your wife.

 

I've come to this conclusion as well...

[TheLoneSock]

This forum is brilliant. I read the OP's first post and the few initial replies... then hit the 'Last Page' button and people are talking about kegels. Stunning.

 

Back on topic though. I think I threw up a little when I read the OP's original post. :sick:

[JamesM]

Believe me, what you and NDB say might work for a few, but most of us are stuck with unrensponsive wives who are not really bothered about sex at all and nothing we do works... they just have very little sex drives... now you can tell I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not... I can assure you... it's just the luck of the draw...

 

I agree as one who is there, too. Changing oneself in hopes for more or better sex is not the solution. Perhaps it will bring better sex, but it probably will not unless the wife thinks she is losing her husband. Even then, she may be thankful that he is not pestering her for sex.

 

Change for yourself with hopes of something better than sex with your wife. Change literally for yourself. Find other hobbies and things to keep yourself occupied until or if you find a solution for your own marriage. And perhaps it may be the end of your marriage is this issue becomes a stumbling block and a deal breaker.

 

This forum is brilliant. I read the OP's first post and the few initial replies... then hit the 'Last Page' button and people are talking about kegels. Stunning.

 

Back on topic though. I think I threw up a little when I read the OP's original post. :sick:

 

And how is expressing your feelings of vomiting not off topic?

[Jeff1962]

This forum is brilliant. I read the OP's first post and the few initial replies... then hit the 'Last Page' button and people are talking about kegels. Stunning.

 

Back on topic though. I think I threw up a little when I read the OP's original post. :sick:

 

Aaaahhhhhh, I lurves ya too ya big lug.