Are all meth users soulless?

[bethykins]

I know probably a dozen active users or former users, who are practically devoid of emotion. My boyfriend hasn't used in going on 5 1/2 years, but he still is almost robotic in response to emotional stimuli.

 

My best friend quit hanging out with me and lied all the time, made plans with me only to randomly back out without telling me. I found out she was using meth. She has been clean (at least I think she has) but she is definitely not the same, and seems to not give a crap about our friendship that was 17 years strong until 2002-ish. Nearly 8 years has gone by with hardly a word from her.

 

Are there any former meth users who are the same? Do any of them get their personality back??

[NoIDidn't]

I know probably a dozen active users or former users, who are practically devoid of emotion. My boyfriend hasn't used in going on 5 1/2 years, but he still is almost robotic in response to emotional stimuli.

 

My best friend quit hanging out with me and lied all the time, made plans with me only to randomly back out without telling me. I found out she was using meth. She has been clean (at least I think she has) but she is definitely not the same, and seems to not give a crap about our friendship that was 17 years strong until 2002-ish. Nearly 8 years has gone by with hardly a word from her.

 

Are there any former meth users who are the same? Do any of them get their personality back??

 

I wonder if this phenomenon stems from the way this drug works in their system, how it affects their brains?

 

I don't think I know any meth users, but all the current and former pot users I know act very dazed and too laid back for the average person to tolerate (lazy, best word I can think of).

 

It could be that their brain chemistry is forever altered depending on how long they used.

[Devil Inside]

I have spoken about this a few times on the boards..but I am a former meth user. I've been clean for over 12 years now. It has had an effect on my personality and on my emotional liability. I would not say that I am soulless, but probably the opposite...I have much more intense mood swings. I find that I am more easily agitated and depressed then before. I was also quite young before, so there may be more at work.

 

I do think that one reason why this might happen is because Serotonin receptors in the brain are really messed with when one uses meth. The doctor I saw in rehab told me that he didn't feel I would have any permanent issues, as I was only using for about a year and a half...but he said that many long term users suffer Serotonin deficits and have a hard time experiencing joy.

[bethykins]

 

I do think that one reason why this might happen is because Serotonin receptors in the brain are really messed with when one uses meth. The doctor I saw in rehab told me that he didn't feel I would have any permanent issues, as I was only using for about a year and a half...but he said that many long term users suffer Serotonin deficits and have a hard time experiencing joy.

 

My boyfriend used for 6 years off and on and sometimes it seems like he does not care about anything. I think that's interesting that meth specifically destroys the serotonin levels in someone's brain chemistry. I know that my uncle used for 20+ years, but he doesn't really act very passive. However, he's been in recovery for over 10 years now.

 

Thanks for your insight. And congratulations to your recovery.

[sedgwick]

all the current and former pot users I know act very dazed and too laid back for the average person to tolerate (lazy, best word I can think of).

 

I am a current and former pot user. I find it brings me down to the energy level of "normal" people, and even when stoned I still get told all the time I think too much and am too much of an overachiever.

 

I got three degrees and a book deal while smoking pot. I know quite a few smokers who are quite sharp and motivated. I would never describe any of them as "dazed" or "lazy."

[annxxdisaster]

I just did a quick search on google and found this: http://www.amphetamines.com/braindamage.html

 

Meth and other amphetamines, cause the most cell death in the frontal cortex and hippocampus. The hippocampus (which is important for long term memory) has a fun little sister called the amygdala, together (with a few other structures) they make up our limbic system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system). Meth users also damage/induce cell death in this limbic system.

 

The limbic system is important for things such as emotion, behavior, and memory. The damage has already been done, and while new synapses and such CAN be made there won't be enough to bring the damaged parts of the brain back up to par with a healthy human's brain. Since they don't have the same sort of functioning limbic system as you or I may, they aren't going to be able to display or control their emotions the same way.

 

I wonder if this phenomenon stems from the way this drug works in their system, how it affects their brains?

 

I don't think I know any meth users, but all the current and former pot users I know act very dazed and too laid back for the average person to tolerate (lazy, best word I can think of).

 

It could be that their brain chemistry is forever altered depending on how long they used.

 

 

And, NoIDidn't... meth and pot are two VERY different drugs. Pot doesn't do nearly as much (if really any) damage to a person's brain chemistry nor is it nearly as addictive as meth is. Meth is a highly addictive drug that does A LOT of damage to the system. Just look up what they even put in that stuff.

Edited January 29, 2010 by annxxdisaster

[Devil Inside]

I just did a quick search on google and found this: http://www.amphetamines.com/braindamage.html

 

Meth and other amphetamines, cause the most cell death in the frontal cortex and hippocampus. The hippocampus (which is important for long term memory) has a fun little sister called the amygdala, together (with a few other structures) they make up our limbic system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system). Meth users also damage/induce cell death in this limbic system.

 

The limbic system is important for things such as emotion, behavior, and memory. The damage has already been done, and while new synapses and such CAN be made there won't be enough to bring the damaged parts of the brain back up to par with a healthy human's brain. Since they don't have the same sort of functioning limbic system as you or I may, they aren't going to be able to display or control their emotions the same way.

 

 

 

 

And, NoIDidn't... meth and pot are two VERY different drugs. Pot doesn't do nearly as much (if really any) damage to a person's brain chemistry nor is it nearly as addictive as meth is. Meth is a highly addictive drug that does A LOT of damage to the system. Just look up what they even put in that stuff.

 

 

Just to add some prespective...that first link uses information from a study with people that had used meth for ten years. So this is what can happen with long term use.

[TheLoneSock]

I know probably a dozen active users or former users, who are practically devoid of emotion. My boyfriend hasn't used in going on 5 1/2 years, but he still is almost robotic in response to emotional stimuli.

 

My best friend quit hanging out with me and lied all the time, made plans with me only to randomly back out without telling me. I found out she was using meth. She has been clean (at least I think she has) but she is definitely not the same, and seems to not give a crap about our friendship that was 17 years strong until 2002-ish. Nearly 8 years has gone by with hardly a word from her.

 

Are there any former meth users who are the same? Do any of them get their personality back??

 

The problem with meth is that it is the most volatile hardcore drug there is, with common ingredients being sleeping pills, household cleaners, battery acid... all kinds of nasty stuff - and it is created easily. The damage it does to your body is obvious, permanent, and irreversible. That being said, this damage includes damage done to your brain, and it's ability to produce and absorb key neurohormones; namely Dopamine (known as the pleasure hormone). The definition of Dopamine can be found here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

 

To put it more simply, basically Dopamine is essential in controlling cognition and emotion. Two attributes that most directly effect human behavior. What meth essentially does is overload your brain with artificial Dopamine, over time damaging the Dopamine receptors in your brain. That means that even long after you stop taking meth, the Dopamine naturally produced by your brain cannot be received and absorbed properly.

 

In other words, meth kills your ability to feel pleasure and other feelings. For a closer look check out this page here:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/body/

 

Hope this helps!

 

- From someone who has dealt with many drug addicts in his career so far, namely methamphetamine.

[Devil Inside]

What meth essentially does is overload your brain with artificial Dopamine, over time damaging the Dopamine receptors in your brain. That means that even long after you stop taking meth, the Dopamine naturally produced by your brain cannot be received and absorbed properly.

 

 

Great info Lone Sock. However, your neural receptors do not get flooded with artificial Dopamine, but rather the meth acts as a reuptake inhibitor and it uses the Dopamine your body already has in this fashion. However once you use it all up there is a depletion afterwards. It's like a Dopamine credit card...you spend it all up front and are left with a debt.

 

I am probably just being defensive here...but not all meth addicts are the tweakers you see on the news stories. There are many people that have the struggled with the addiction, like myself, that have recovered and live very productive lives, and more importantly...very much have a soul.

[NoIDidn't]

I am a current and former pot user. I find it brings me down to the energy level of "normal" people, and even when stoned I still get told all the time I think too much and am too much of an overachiever.

 

I got three degrees and a book deal while smoking pot. I know quite a few smokers who are quite sharp and motivated. I would never describe any of them as "dazed" or "lazy."

 

I have been told this by a former pot user that also has ADHD. Its like he used it to self-medicate and found it to normalize his system.

 

How can you be a "former" and "current" pot user at the same time, though? That's kind of funny to read.

[NoIDidn't]

And, NoIDidn't... meth and pot are two VERY different drugs. Pot doesn't do nearly as much (if really any) damage to a person's brain chemistry nor is it nearly as addictive as meth is. Meth is a highly addictive drug that does A LOT of damage to the system. Just look up what they even put in that stuff.

 

Yes, but I said I didn't know any meth users and referenced the drug that I did know. But I do agree with you. They are very different drugs. The other drugs that I have seen people around me using a lot have been cocaine and heroin, but all of those users are now dead (some drug related, some drug dealing related). So I can't really use them as examples of changes in personality.

 

But my main point was supposing a change in brain chemistry, not trying to equate the drugs to each other.

 

They put a lot of drugs into some pot as well. Much like what they do to tobacco before it makes it into a cigarette. Pure cannabis is likely much safer than meth any day though.

[TheLoneSock]

Great info Lone Sock. However, your neural receptors do not get flooded with artificial Dopamine, but rather the meth acts as a reuptake inhibitor and it uses the Dopamine your body already has in this fashion. However once you use it all up there is a depletion afterwards. It's like a Dopamine credit card...you spend it all up front and are left with a debt.

 

That's correct, and a better explanation than mine. I did not mean that the drug itself actually has Dopamine in it. I meant that it manufactures the circumstances required for your brain to release it. The "request" for your brain to release it is artificial, not that the drug has actual artificial Dopamine in it. At least that's how I understood it.

 

There are many people that have the struggled with the addiction, like myself, that have recovered and live very productive lives, and more importantly...very much have a soul.

 

I totally agree! While I don't see too many good comebacks from hardcore addiction, they do happen. One in particular that I think many people might be familiar with is Andre Agassi. One of the world's top tennis players.

Edited January 31, 2010 by TheLoneSock
added

[Devil Inside]

 

I totally agree! While I don't see too many good comebacks from hardcore addiction, they do happen. One in particular that I think many people might be familiar with is Andre Agassi. One of the world's top tennis players.

 

You work in the medical field right? Man I bet you see some pretty bad stuff. I work with child protection so I also see some of the really bad cases.

 

Either way..I think the successful recovery rate is around 10%, so I would recommend that anyone that is considering even trying it... not.