My gf play-fights with her guy friends... out of line?

[mani81]

Yesterday I was at a house party of all my gf's coworkers. My gf (she's 23) and I were sitting against a wall watching a game of beer pong. One of her managers (a guy around 30) called her a ***** in a joking way. She said, "Oh yeah!? I'll show you!" and jumped up and ran across to the other side of the room and slugged him. Then they started play fighting back-and-forth for about 10 seconds until he wrapped his arms around her to subdue her. One of her other managers came over to me and said, "Oh don't worry about him - he's got a girlfriend (the guy my gf was messing with)."

 

Now, my gf is the jealous type and always questioning me about things. I know that if roles were reversed and a girl called me a "jerk" and I ran across the room and slapped her arm and got into a 10 second play fight that ended with her wrapping her arms around me... well, I know my gf would be upset. I actually proposed that scenario to her and she said it would upset her if it happened. She also said "it would be different because all my friends that are girls like me." But I said, "You don't know what's running through the guy you were messing with's head..."

 

Well we didn't talk about it anymore until when we got home that night. I asked her if I gave her enough attention. She said, "Yes, and why?" I said, "I was just wondering if you feel the need to flirt with other guys like at the party..." She got quiet for 10 minutes (formulating her battle plan I guess...)

 

She starts off with, "Well he's my bro." (She calls all her guy friends 'bros') I'm like, "What?" She: "He's like a brother. Brothers and sisters fight." I said, "He's not even a close friend of yours. He's just a guy you know at work. So don't say it's a brother-sister thing because if an adult male and adult female who are not related play-fight, then to me that's flirting."

 

Then she said no one else thought that was flirting. And I said your other manager came over to me during it and said "to not worry about that.. that the guy had a gf.. So obviously even he could see the flirting in it..."

 

Then she got quiet for another minute and said, "I was angry that he called me a ***** and I went over there to hurt him but not too much because he's my manager and I could get in trouble." I said, "If what he said bothered you and he's like your "bro" can't you just tell him to his face that what he said bothered you and you felt disrespected?" That I don't know many people who are genuinely upset would handle it like she did.

 

Also, she ran over there laughing.. and they were laughing the entire time they were messing throughout. I've seen her mad. She was definitely not mad. So I didn't appreciate her last defense - it seemed insulting for me for her to say something so far-fetched.

 

I don't mind her slapping her guy friends every now and then but a 10 second play fight ending with the guy's arms wrapped around my gf seems a little too touchy-feely for me. She's an attractive girl and I know how guy's think. Even if she had innocent intentions it's still comes off poorly. I wouldn't do it with another girl. And also that my gf initiated the physical contact by going all the way across the room bothers me. And the fact that she wouldn't be cool at all with me play-fighting with other girls.

 

One other thing to mention - pretty much all of our flirting is play-fighting. It turns her on. She's feisty. So I know that her preferred method of flirting is play-fighting like that... that makes a little more uncomfortable when she play-fights with other guys.

 

So after we talked about it casually I asked her for any input and she just stayed silent for a long time. She kept glaring at me so I asked if she was angry. She said she was angry that I accused her of going to him to flirt. I said, "I don't think you ran over there specifically to flirt. But you ending up play-fighting with him and play-fighting to me is flirting. So do I think you flirted? Yes."

 

My gf is very pretty but also has some self-esteem issues. She was cheated on in every relationship she's ever had before me. She always thinks I'm going to break up with her. She has dreams that I cheat on her. I've only been true to her throughout the 4 months we've dated and I get her little anniversary gifts all the time. She always says how happy I make her and that I'm bar far the best bf she's ever had. Anyways... I'm just checking to see if I handled this situation in a decent manner. I try to present it unbiased. Everyone I've asked so far has told me I was justified in getting upset over her behavior.

[shadowplay]

I agree with you. She was out of line.

[SoulSearch_CO]

LOL - I couldn't resist. If she was sooo mad at you, why didn't she start laughing and play-fighting YOU?

 

Anyway...I think it comes down to respecting your feelings. If you're uncomfortable with it, then she needs to try to understand that and respect your feelings by NOT doing it. I TOTALLY agree with you that SHE might have had innocent intentions, but her guy friend sees things much differently than her. Guys think SO differently. Really, she needs to understand that. Given the chance - with how attractive she is - he'd hit it. So having that thought in your mind and watching him wrap his arms around her - of course it's disturbing.

 

In addition - I would also be insulted at her little cover story about wanting to "hurt" him, but not too much or she could get in trouble. WTF? They are off of work. That's BS. Wouldn't the same logic work in reverse? She could've reported him to HR for calling her a bitch. I don't think that's really appropriate for a superior to be doing. So I agree that was a lame cover.

[Bryanp]

She totally disrespected you. Ask her how she would feel if the roles had been reversed? I think this is a huge red flag that she claims to see nothing wrong with this.

[Template]

Personally I've never bought into the "he's like a brother" crap, and I'll tell you why - if he has a penis, and she has a vagina, THINGS CAN HAPPEN. Simple as that. I've SEEN a LOT of couples that started out "like a brother", "like a sister". It doesn't matter. The possibility is always there.

 

Now think about this, everyone has a personal space, regardless of how big it is. If your woman allows men to grab, touch, wrestle her the way that you observed, she is VERY comfortable with them. VERY. The threshold to get into her pants is a lot closer than you think, and she's willing to admit. Trust me on this, because as a personal note, once a female got that kind of comfortability with me, 90% of the times I knew, and did sleep with her.

 

Lastly, the reason we have anxiety about our mate, especially in regard to if you are going to cheat, is not because she thinks you are. She's projecting her own inadequacy of being faithful. She's done it before, and while you may not want to admit it, you know she is capable of doing it again. She's no mad at you because said she flirted. She's mad because she knows you are right.

 

RED FLAGS bro... RED FLAGS.... all it takes is one massive fight, one disagreement, on drunken night, and you'll be hearing how she didn't mean to do what she did. I'm not saying people cannot change, as they truly can, however, if she really cared about what YOU thought, she would have worked with you instead of get angry. Just be on your guard dude, that's all I'm saying...

[hoping2heal]

Yes, it was very inappropriate. She was further manipulating you and insulting your intelligence by telling you that he's her "bro" and she "Wanted to hurt him" Um, is she 12? Talk about childish good grief. If he was her "bro" doesn't she know that him calling her whatever is "All in fun" anyway..I agree with what you said ..when she was quiet she was just "formulating her battle plan." I.e planning to manipulate.

[Dexter Morgan]

Everyone I've asked so far has told me I was justified in getting upset over her behavior.

 

 

And I'd say everyone that has told you that is spot on.

 

she is wanting physical contact with other guys, and this is her way to get it while saying, "its just play fighting, lighten up"

 

thats why the phrase, "look but don't touch" is so popular.

[hoping2heal]

 

My gf is very pretty but also has some self-esteem issues. She was cheated on in every relationship she's ever had before me. She always thinks I'm going to break up with her. She has dreams that I cheat on her. I've only been true to her throughout the 4 months we've dated and I get her little anniversary gifts all the time. She always says how happy I make her and that I'm bar far the best bf she's ever had. Anyways... I'm just checking to see if I handled this situation in a decent manner. I try to present it unbiased. Everyone I've asked so far has told me I was justified in getting upset over her behavior.

 

Yes well, she seems to also be very manipulative. Not to mention how many lies she told in just one conversation with you..you picked up on that TOO right? You need to be weary of that. I know she was cheated on a lot in the past

(so she says, you'll have to forgive me that I'm not sure I believe her being that she blew through 4 or 5 lies in one conversation with you like it was nothing) and you may think now it makes sense that she would have dreams about you cheating on her, but it sounds more to me like a guilty conscience.

[LucreziaBorgia]

She likes the attention and her guy friends like an 'innocent' chance to cop feels here and there. If you make her stop, she'll make you pay for it for the rest of your relationship.

 

Honestly, in your position I'd dump her but then again I've lost a good deal of tolerance over the years for stuff like that.

[norajane]

Yes, it was very inappropriate. She was further manipulating you and insulting your intelligence by telling you that he's her "bro" and she "Wanted to hurt him" Um, is she 12? Talk about childish good grief. If he was her "bro" doesn't she know that him calling her whatever is "All in fun" anyway..I agree with what you said ..when she was quiet she was just "formulating her battle plan." I.e planning to manipulate.

 

I have to agree.

 

Play fighting, wrestling, shoulder rubs, hugs after a winning softball score, etc., are all just excuses to be physical and touch.

 

And she was trying to weasel out of admitting that what she did made you feel bad and you have a right to feel that way.

 

Did she ever apologize for making you feel bad?

[Hop_prophet]

Her explanation is fishy as hell and you should definitely be suspicious. I hope she allows a good deal of transparency in the relationship. Does she text or communicate with this guy a lot when she is off of work? This definitely sounds like an inappropriate relationship between manager and co-worker. Flirting this way right in front of you is really disrespectful and I would not put up with it.

[Pizzaman81]

Don't watch them, but keep an eye on them. I'd be suspicious

[carhill]

Does she have brothers?

 

I would say 'I feel disrespected when you play-fight with these other men'.

 

Set a time limit for her to reinforce that respect and, if absent, move on. Being that she is young (23), she likely isn't your be-all, end-all anyway. Sounds like she still has some growing up to do, which is perfectly normal.

[Dexter Morgan]

She likes the attention and her guy friends like an 'innocent' chance to cop feels here and there.

 

innocent? would you see a bf of yours taking the opportunity to "accidentally" feel up another woman as innocent?

[samsungxoxo]

She likes the attention and her guy friends like an 'innocent' chance to cop feels here and there. If you make her stop, she'll make you pay for it for the rest of your relationship.

 

Honestly, in your position I'd dump her but then again I've lost a good deal of tolerance over the years for stuff like that.

I don't see why too many people want to start an argument over silly things. The OP's g/f was only joking around with the co-worker and besides this happened while the OP was present. If there's nothing hide then it's no big deal.

 

That's part of the reason why I'm single at this moment. I don't want to end up with a man placing too many strict rules. If I can't even flirt then he's not for me.

[road]

"She was cheated on in every relationship she's ever had before me"

 

She is lining up her next OM. Her flirting is inapropriate.

[zwieback.toast]

Well, either she's already cheating with her boss, or she has the makings of an excellent sexual harassment suit.

[jnj express]

She totally disrespected you, right there in front of you----she put herself in a situation that allowed another male to feel her body, while you looked on. She sure wouldn't like it if it were reversed.

 

If she is gonna be in a relationship, then all this messing around, flirting, allowing other guys to feel her body----It stops and stops right now.

 

If she doesn't like that boundary then tell her to hit the road and don't let the door hit her on the way out.

 

She is either in a committed relationship or she is not.

[meerkat stew]

If I can't even flirt then he's not for me.

 

Yes, you are right, if you feel the need to flirt with other men while in a relationship, you should stay single.

[meerkat stew]

OP sometimes you have to put your foot down and not try to have a rational discussion. Otherwise they will turn the tables on you as she did. The funny thing is that once they have turned the tables, they rationalize believing you are in the wrong, not them, so you have to short-circuit the process.

 

The fact that some random guy came up and said "Don't worry he has a GF" shows exactly how this looked to all present, and must have chapped your ass good, humiliating. You did a much better job than I would have, I'd have manufactured an excuse to leave the party and taken her straight home, then gone straight home myself. Good on you for keeping a clear head.

[jenifer1972]

My best friend used to kid around with my ex A LOT like that, play fighting, wrestling around, and I tried to tell myself that I was being ridiculous for being suspicious about it, right up until I caught them on our balcony in a romantic embrace together.....

[mem11363]

completely not cool behavior on her part - she loves the attention. You may have to do the exact same thing in front of her to get her attention.

 

Yesterday I was at a house party of all my gf's coworkers. My gf (she's 23) and I were sitting against a wall watching a game of beer pong. One of her managers (a guy around 30) called her a ***** in a joking way. She said, "Oh yeah!? I'll show you!" and jumped up and ran across to the other side of the room and slugged him. Then they started play fighting back-and-forth for about 10 seconds until he wrapped his arms around her to subdue her. One of her other managers came over to me and said, "Oh don't worry about him - he's got a girlfriend (the guy my gf was messing with)."

 

Now, my gf is the jealous type and always questioning me about things. I know that if roles were reversed and a girl called me a "jerk" and I ran across the room and slapped her arm and got into a 10 second play fight that ended with her wrapping her arms around me... well, I know my gf would be upset. I actually proposed that scenario to her and she said it would upset her if it happened. She also said "it would be different because all my friends that are girls like me." But I said, "You don't know what's running through the guy you were messing with's head..."

 

Well we didn't talk about it anymore until when we got home that night. I asked her if I gave her enough attention. She said, "Yes, and why?" I said, "I was just wondering if you feel the need to flirt with other guys like at the party..." She got quiet for 10 minutes (formulating her battle plan I guess...)

 

She starts off with, "Well he's my bro." (She calls all her guy friends 'bros') I'm like, "What?" She: "He's like a brother. Brothers and sisters fight." I said, "He's not even a close friend of yours. He's just a guy you know at work. So don't say it's a brother-sister thing because if an adult male and adult female who are not related play-fight, then to me that's flirting."

 

Then she said no one else thought that was flirting. And I said your other manager came over to me during it and said "to not worry about that.. that the guy had a gf.. So obviously even he could see the flirting in it..."

 

Then she got quiet for another minute and said, "I was angry that he called me a ***** and I went over there to hurt him but not too much because he's my manager and I could get in trouble." I said, "If what he said bothered you and he's like your "bro" can't you just tell him to his face that what he said bothered you and you felt disrespected?" That I don't know many people who are genuinely upset would handle it like she did.

 

Also, she ran over there laughing.. and they were laughing the entire time they were messing throughout. I've seen her mad. She was definitely not mad. So I didn't appreciate her last defense - it seemed insulting for me for her to say something so far-fetched.

 

I don't mind her slapping her guy friends every now and then but a 10 second play fight ending with the guy's arms wrapped around my gf seems a little too touchy-feely for me. She's an attractive girl and I know how guy's think. Even if she had innocent intentions it's still comes off poorly. I wouldn't do it with another girl. And also that my gf initiated the physical contact by going all the way across the room bothers me. And the fact that she wouldn't be cool at all with me play-fighting with other girls.

 

One other thing to mention - pretty much all of our flirting is play-fighting. It turns her on. She's feisty. So I know that her preferred method of flirting is play-fighting like that... that makes a little more uncomfortable when she play-fights with other guys.

 

So after we talked about it casually I asked her for any input and she just stayed silent for a long time. She kept glaring at me so I asked if she was angry. She said she was angry that I accused her of going to him to flirt. I said, "I don't think you ran over there specifically to flirt. But you ending up play-fighting with him and play-fighting to me is flirting. So do I think you flirted? Yes."

 

My gf is very pretty but also has some self-esteem issues. She was cheated on in every relationship she's ever had before me. She always thinks I'm going to break up with her. She has dreams that I cheat on her. I've only been true to her throughout the 4 months we've dated and I get her little anniversary gifts all the time. She always says how happy I make her and that I'm bar far the best bf she's ever had. Anyways... I'm just checking to see if I handled this situation in a decent manner. I try to present it unbiased. Everyone I've asked so far has told me I was justified in getting upset over her behavior.

[2sunny]

her actions gave him and other men full permission to touch her - a lot... and right in front of you - which is a ploy so that she can say it was innocent... it wasn't.

 

most of all it was disrespectful and all she did was try to justify her bad behavior instead of apologizing for hurting you. it's selfish and self serving at best - is this what you want to date?

[zwieback.toast]

Frankly I really think that's it too late for the OP, for a couple of reasons.

 

For one thing, I think is girlfriend already has something going on with her boss. The boss evidently used a profanity to describe her (the forum's naughty word filter changed it into asterisks, but I'm guessing he called her a "wh#or" or a "beotch").

 

You do NOT do that to a girl at a party, esp. not with her "official" boyfriend looking on, without KNOWING how she will react. Or else you might be walking home with your front teeth in the palm of your hand.

 

But ha ha ha the girl laughed it off, not only did she laugh it off, they start engaging in what has been called "wrestling" but is actually foreplay (or maybe "afterplay").

 

So I think the boss and the girlfriend have already done some pretty serious physical contact before the party. They're just too damm comfortable with one another, KWIM? I don't know if they did full on intercourse but I wouldn't be at all surprised.

 

But the clincher--the deal breaker--the reason that OP's relationship is OVER--is that when confronted with this cuckolding behavior, in front of his face, he did NOTHING to stop.

 

When this stuff was playing out, and when the boss actually grabbed the girlfriend, the OP should have certainly stepped in and made it very clear to the boss and the gf who the "alpha" was in the room.

 

As in: Walk over, yank the boss's arms from around the girlfriend, as hard as you can and intending to cause pain but laughing grimly with a smile on your face. You say "Hey that's fun, let me play too." Then you get the azzhole in a headlock and take him down--all laughing, inadvertently, and when you "accidentally" crush your knee into his balls, you say "Oh I'm so sorry, are you O.K.?"

 

Now this kind of crap is hard for a lot of guys to do. I know I probably couldn't do it. I would have probably just yelled at them and split. Also we don't know if the OP was physically intimidated by the boss but I suspect he probably was. But if you really want to try and keep a gf like that (and I don't know why you would bother, from the description) then unfortunately you have to "man up", play those high school games, and either beat the guy down (in a "playful" manner) or take a beating yourself.

 

I remember when I was first going out with my wife a long time ago, before we were married, we had only been seeing each other a couple of months. We were at some party, she disappeared for a while, then I saw her standing a little too close to some guy, smiling, obviously flirting, he tried to hold her hand and she held it back!!! (She also had a history of cheating in a prior relationship which I knew about).

 

I really almost lost it totally. Fortunately I didn't get into a physical confrontation with whoever it was but I was like a bull with a red flag. I got her into a spare bedroom and really laid down the law or tried to. I mean I hope the entire party didn't hear me yelling at her, but I do remember doing some pretty "loud talking." I made it very clear that shiat was completely unacceptable and if she wanted me to be her boyfriend it had to stop or I would take a walk. (My wife claims not to remember this incident at all. But I remember it clearly. It was like 20 years ago.)

 

But unfortunately OP assuming you did want to try to maintain this relationship, you just let your gf make a mockery out of it in front of everyone. You were socially castrated as well as emotionally castrated. Whatever your social value was before that, now it's zero to your gf and to her social circle. You are perceived now by your gf as giving her license to cheat on you, if she hasn't already.

 

Bottom line: if she is your woman that shiat can't happen. Ever. One time is too much.

 

Now remember--any DECENT woman wouldn't have allowed it to happen in the first place, so, move on; even if you stay with her after this incident, you're in for nothing but heartbreak down the road. It's good you learned what your gf really is (that would be whatever profanity her boss used to describe her) before you married her.

 

Count yourself a very lucky man.

[zwieback.toast]

Not to threadjack, but this reminds me of something that might or might not be amusing:

 

I had a friend a long time ago, a guy who used to work out a lot at a karate school. Now this guy was probably the toughest guy I ever knew, and he wasn't that big (average sized guy), but he was incredibly strong and he was such a good fighter that he seemed pretty much "indestructible." (He'd probably be a pretty good "Ultimate Fighter" if they had that back then, I knew this guy a long time ago.) But he had a baby face, he didn't have obvious bulging muscles, and he looked average and innocuous. Wore regular work clothes. Very deceptive appearance actually.

 

Anyhow, he was a pretty nice guy. When sober. But I think he was actually a pretty serious alcoholic, because when he got drunk, he got absolutely plastered. And when plastered, he became the most obnoxious drunk in the world.

 

One of the things that would happen, actually it happened a number of times that I know about, is he would go out to bars drinking or at a party maybe. Then he would get shiat-faced, and he would start hitting on girls, without a care if the girl was with someone else.

 

Now the thing of it was, is that despite obviously being a drunken, completely obnoxious azzhole, these girls would always be fascinated by this guy. And invariably, the boyfriend of the girl this guy was hitting on, would get very pissed off, and ultimately want to get physical with him.

 

So the boyfriend would typically lay hands on my friend to try to physically intimidate him. But that was impossible. My friend was just tremendously strong, not in a weight lifting way. But you could not make him move where he did not want to go. So what would end up happening is that my drunken friend and the boyfriend would sort of be "dancing" and stumbling around the bar, as the boyfriend would try to physically wrestle my friend around, to no avail. And my friend never really hit any of these guys in these situations; but somehow they would end up with the crap beat out of them. I don't know I guess he was using his elbows or something. My friend was the type of guy where if you punched him anywhere on his body all that would happen is you would hurt your hand and it would do nothing to him. Kind of a freak of nature I guess.

 

Then of course we would hear the police sirens and have to carry my friend out back and lay in the back of someone's car, passed out, and get the hell out of there.