spinoff....why do people hang on?

[OWoman]

It reminds me of the LS poster called minutebyminute. I don't think we should underestimate the pain the WS feels when he/she involuntarily loses the AP.

 

Or even "voluntarily"... Sometimes the "choice" to stay in a M is submitting / conceding, rather than choosing. Whatever the outcome (leaving or staying), if the WS doesn't actively feel they've chosen that route, there will be regrets, unhappiness, and possibly other consequences.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Involuntary??? Like MP leaves marriage for AP and the AP changes their mind??

[OWoman]

Involuntary??? Like MP leaves marriage for AP and the AP changes their mind??

 

Or, AP gets frustrated at lack of visible progress and ends A, while the MP feels they were about to make the break and leave the M... if only the AP had hung on a LITTLE longer...

[jennie-jennie]

Or, AP gets frustrated at lack of visible progress and ends A, while the MP feels they were about to make the break and leave the M... if only the AP had hung on a LITTLE longer...

 

Or even worse when the AP moves on to a new SP or MP, and there is no possibility of the WS getting them back!

[torranceshipman]

To answer the OP's original question...I think people don't ask about the BS's decision, because we can't ask them directly. What's the point in asking if we can't know? The OW has an emotional/subjective reason to want to believe the MM's words, but being objective bystanders we aren't going to buy into that. But we can ask the OWs direct on this board, so it is easier to hear their opinion.

 

But also, to be fair, it is more obvious why BS's stay and that's probably why people don't ask (i.e. because many BS's believe their wedding vows-for better or for worse, etc-because they have kids and an entire life together, because the MM passed off the A as quick meaningless sex - a complete mistake - and begs to get their W back...they don't tell the OW this, of course)...

[fooled once]

That history could be a bad thing - while the promise of a fresh start with the OW could seem like paradise by comparison.

 

 

 

Not always. Often "promises" made to the W are made in haste, youthful naivete or under duress (the expectation to marry after too many years of dating, for example) while the promises made to the OW are made from a position of knowing better. And the name vs "wee wee" thing? My H's xW did not take his name - she kept that of her 1st husband. Nor did she get his "wee wee" - I got that (and believe me, there's nothing "wee" about it )

 

 

 

He did

 

Great - glad he did for you. But that is rare, not the norm.

 

Doesn't matter if the promise was made in haste, y outhful naivete or under duress - the fact is the promise was made. Many aren't negating that promise for a new promise with the OW.

 

And she did get his wee wee at one point, they have children, right

 

You can argue the facts all day, doesn't change the fact that 8 times out of 10, the cheater returns to the wife. He doesn't leave for the OW.

[fooled once]

What if those were bad years? Better yet, what if the 4 years were better than the 40?

 

They are most certainly comparible. All things are comparible. I think you are putting your values on all people's values. Not everyone shares the same values even within a given society.

 

The cheater made his pledge when he was a very young man. Time and experience change people. We would not marry the same person at 50 as we did at 20; at least not usually.

 

Most don't take the opportunity because of assets, guilt (usually forced guilt), and fear of losing the comfort zone.

 

But what if they weren't bad years? Are things usually thought of in "bad" light for the OW in order for her to continue to wait and hang on? I mean, like one poster who stated (on another thread) she had NO idea her marriage was in jeopardy, they laughed, they loved, they communicated, but he still cheated. He could have (and I believe did) feed the OW all kinds of lies about his home life. This is where I think so many things get screwed up -- the OW is going off HIS description of his home life and rare is it the guy who is going to claim in love and happy home life .... because to do so usually won't mean he will get what he wants with the OW.

 

I think you are putting your values on people's values (assets, guilt, fear of losing the comfort zone).

 

You may marry differently at 50 than 20, but there are plenty who don't/won't. I can site my parents as two who would not change a thing.

 

Would I remarry my ex all over again? Hell no. but that isn't fair since I know what it is like to be married to him Would I have married my H had I met him when I was younger? No - he wasn't where he was when I met him (mentally, spritually, emotionally). I probably wouldn't have glanced at him twice when we were younger.

[jennie-jennie]

You can argue the facts all day, doesn't change the fact that 8 times out of 10, the cheater returns to the wife. He doesn't leave for the OW.

 

8 out f 10, huh? And this figure comes from where?

 

A quick look on infidelity statistics on the internet (Infidelity-etc) says only 35 percent of marriages survive an extramarital affair.

[fooled once]

Originally Posted by fooled once

Because the wife has a history, a shared life, possibly family/kids, a planned future -- and the OW has a few months/few years.

 

they aren't comparable by any means.

 

Wow, that is presumption at work. Not every marriage is 40 years long and not every affair is short term.

 

The cheater pledged to love, honor and cherish one, the other one...not so much. One he gave his name to, one he gives his wee wee to.

 

You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

You don't know what the MM has pledged to his OW. Perhaps he has pledged her (OW) the same, only with experience he actually means it by the time he says it to his OW.

 

Many times men get married early on due to pressure from family, friends, perhaps an unplanned pregnancy *shrug* obviously he didn;t mean it when he said it to his wife, hence the affair in the first place. By the time he makes a commitment like that to his OW he has had the experience to learn not to say what he doesn't mean.

 

Just because it didn't happen like that in your affair, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And i do not buy all the "statistics" about how many "affairs turned marriage" work, I don't think they are accurate, as not everyone whose marriage started out as an affair, are willing to open up about that. And most 'happily married after the affair' couples are not hanging out on LS.

 

 

additionally, when the affair comes to light, who does the cheater stay with? The wife usually. What does that say to you? If he loved his OW so much, why doesn't he take this as an opportunity to be with her?

 

He originally stays with the wife when the affair comes to light. Perhaps you should check into the numbers of men who eventually leave the marriage, a year - five years after the affair has come to light. Just because they do not leave right then, doesn;t mean they do not leave. Sometimes they end up with their AP when they finally do leave, sometimes not, but many of them do leave, just not on D-day.

 

Actually, FA, you are making assumptions about what I wrote. Where did I write marriage was 40 years long? Could have been 8 years long. You are right, there are plenty of OW who hang on for year, after year, after year, after year...... for what? Oh that's right, for what they have NOW.... in the moment. But you know damn well you would give anything to not have to share him with his wife -- to be able to be introducecd to his kids -- to be a WHOLE part of his life.

 

You say the man never meant it to his wife or else he wouldn't have had an affair..... interesting.... so when he dumps the OW, does that mean he never loved her? Does it mean that because he won't commit to the OW, does he not love her like he says? Is his talk of a future just lip service to keep her hanging on or does he really mean it?

 

WTH? Why are you taking every single post so defensively? How about YOU check YOUR statistics on how many OW really end up with the guy after waiting 4+ years?

 

And you are right....the affair I had, thank GOD, didn't work out as well as .... what... the affair you are in? I did have the good sense to get out instead of sitting and waiting more years. Trying to take a dig at me for not being in a "good affair"? You're right -- you win that -- I am glad I didn't last in it and got out and found someone else who I didn't have to share with.

[anne1707]

8 out f 10, huh? And this figure comes from where?

 

A quick look on infidelity statistics on the internet (Infidelity-etc) says only 35 percent of marriages survive an extramarital affair.

 

 

I am not sure of the stats but I think that the other 65% (if that is the case) are those who split either immediately afterwards or even months/years after because recovery is not possible. Also just because a marriage ends, does not automatically mean the WS continues the relationship with the OW/OM.

[fooled once]

8 out f 10, huh? And this figure comes from where?

 

A quick look on infidelity statistics on the internet (Infidelity-etc) says only 35 percent of marriages survive an extramarital affair.

 

Did I say the marriage survived??

 

The figures comes from me reading various sites. Did I say it was a scientific fact? Nope - no different from the various facts thrown about.

[jwi71]

Did I say the marriage survived??

 

The figures comes from me reading various sites. Did I say it was a scientific fact? Nope - no different from the various facts thrown about.

 

The better question is...WHO filed for D in these circumstances...the WS or the BS?

 

My money is on the BS filing WAY more often than the WS.

[White Flower]

But what if they weren't bad years? Are things usually thought of in "bad" light for the OW in order for her to continue to wait and hang on? I mean, like one poster who stated (on another thread) she had NO idea her marriage was in jeopardy, they laughed, they loved, they communicated, but he still cheated. He could have (and I believe did) feed the OW all kinds of lies about his home life. This is where I think so many things get screwed up -- the OW is going off HIS description of his home life and rare is it the guy who is going to claim in love and happy home life .... because to do so usually won't mean he will get what he wants with the OW.

 

I think you are putting your values on people's values (assets, guilt, fear of losing the comfort zone).

 

You may marry differently at 50 than 20, but there are plenty who don't/won't. I can site my parents as two who would not change a thing.

 

Would I remarry my ex all over again? Hell no. but that isn't fair since I know what it is like to be married to him Would I have married my H had I met him when I was younger? No - he wasn't where he was when I met him (mentally, spritually, emotionally). I probably wouldn't have glanced at him twice when we were younger.

I wasn't putting my values into it, I was trying to answer the question as objectively as I could and I even stated love as another reason.

 

I don't neccessarily buy MMs every word RE his M but I do know he cheated throughout the entire M so even if they thought they were happy the reality was the M was effed up.

 

For that reason, he probably tried even harder to make her happy. He had to make up for it somewhere but that is beside the point. Or maybe it is part of the point. Maybe that effort on his part made her smile all the time and THAT could be one of her reasons for keeping him around after D-day. It is very hard to give up laughter.

[White Flower]

It's a fair question.

 

 

We can let go of sex, money, cars, and houses. Love is hard to let go of.

I meant this for both the OW and the BW.

[White Flower]

Or even "voluntarily"... Sometimes the "choice" to stay in a M is submitting / conceding, rather than choosing. Whatever the outcome (leaving or staying), if the WS doesn't actively feel they've chosen that route, there will be regrets, unhappiness, and possibly other consequences.

Like more cheating in the near future.

[White Flower]

Or even worse when the AP moves on to a new SP or MP, and there is no possibility of the WS getting them back!

This is potential for a lot of pain for the WS and even more fuel for him/her to begin another A with someone new.

[silktricks]

The cheater made his pledge when he was a very young man. Time and experience change people. We would not marry the same person at 50 as we did at 20; at least not usually.

hmmm - maybe not, but the person you married at 20 who has now also aged to 50 - quite often yes, you would.

 

Most don't take the opportunity because of assets, guilt (usually forced guilt), and fear of losing the comfort zone.

How can you possibly know this? I'm certain that some stay for exactly these reasons - but most? I don't think that most people are that worried about change, nor that guilt ridden nor more concerned about assets than happiness. I think some are.

[White Flower]

hmmm - maybe not, but the person you married at 20 who has now also aged to 50 - quite often yes, you would.

 

 

How can you possibly know this? I'm certain that some stay for exactly these reasons - but most? I don't think that most people are that worried about change, nor that guilt ridden nor more concerned about assets than happiness. I think some are.

LOL, be grateful that I didn't say 'all'.

 

Also, I'm willing to admit that I was looking at the older MM when I posted that. It is a very real concern for the older MM to get over his comfort zone than the younger one.

[Fallen Angel]

[/i]

 

Actually, FA, you are making assumptions about what I wrote. Where did I write marriage was 40 years long? Could have been 8 years long. You are right, there are plenty of OW who hang on for year, after year, after year, after year...... for what? Oh that's right, for what they have NOW.... in the moment. But you know damn well you would give anything to not have to share him with his wife -- to be able to be introducecd to his kids -- to be a WHOLE part of his life.

 

You say the man never meant it to his wife or else he wouldn't have had an affair..... interesting.... so when he dumps the OW, does that mean he never loved her? Does it mean that because he won't commit to the OW, does he not love her like he says? Is his talk of a future just lip service to keep her hanging on or does he really mean it?

 

WTH? Why are you taking every single post so defensively? How about YOU check YOUR statistics on how many OW really end up with the guy after waiting 4+ years?

 

And you are right....the affair I had, thank GOD, didn't work out as well as .... what... the affair you are in? I did have the good sense to get out instead of sitting and waiting more years. Trying to take a dig at me for not being in a "good affair"? You're right -- you win that -- I am glad I didn't last in it and got out and found someone else who I didn't have to share with.

 

If this is what you got from what I wrote, then it is a shame, because none of it was aimed at you personally, however you made sure to aim carefully at me.. it is a shame really, I thought you were different.

 

When i commented that just because it wasn't like that in your relationship (affair).. etc etc.. it was in no way intended as a personal dig at you, I was just pointing out that sometimes you (a general you, even to include myself) seem to base your perception of the facts on what you have personally experienced (we all do that) but often times our own personal experiences are limited to the point that we can not make an objective statement using our experiences to form our generalizations about the topic under discussion.

 

Again, I am sorry that you feel that way about me.. and that you would aim at me like that.. *shrug*

[silktricks]

LOL, be grateful that I didn't say 'all'.

 

Also, I'm willing to admit that I was looking at the older MM when I posted that. It is a very real concern for the older MM to get over his comfort zone than the younger one.

 

I actually think younger men have a harder time divorcing for an affair than do older men. Older men generally speaking will be in their minds "trading up" to a younger, more vibrant, sexually active woman than will a young man.

 

The older man will be able to feel like a young stud again, while the younger man will tend more to feel that he "failed".

 

The older man will definitely have more of a tendency to think "is this all there is?" I've lived practically my whole life and I need some happiness NOW, then will a young man.

 

Dividing assets is really no big deal. IMO men usually aren't the big hoarder of things nearly as much as women. Men are more interesting in doing as a general rule. Women are more interesting in having. (I'm not normal, there, though... )

 

 

BTW - I'm not grateful that you didn't say ALL - I find it rather confusing that you think I should be .

[jennie-jennie]

I actually think younger men have a harder time divorcing for an affair than do older men. Older men generally speaking will be in their minds "trading up" to a younger, more vibrant, sexually active woman than will a young man.

 

The older man will be able to feel like a young stud again, while the younger man will tend more to feel that he "failed".

 

Not all older men have a younger lover, you know! I am actually a wee bit older than his wife.

[White Flower]

I actually think younger men have a harder time divorcing for an affair than do older men. Older men generally speaking will be in their minds "trading up" to a younger, more vibrant, sexually active woman than will a young man.

 

The older man will be able to feel like a young stud again, while the younger man will tend more to feel that he "failed".

 

The older man will definitely have more of a tendency to think "is this all there is?" I've lived practically my whole life and I need some happiness NOW, then will a young man.

 

Dividing assets is really no big deal. IMO men usually aren't the big hoarder of things nearly as much as women. Men are more interesting in doing as a general rule. Women are more interesting in having. (I'm not normal, there, though... )

 

 

BTW - I'm not grateful that you didn't say ALL - I find it rather confusing that you think I should be .

Aw be a better sport than that! Any college English teacher will point that rule out and it's usually a pretty good disclaimer but I guess it doesn't work with you. Oh well.

 

All the rest of your post is pretty much generalizing, which is fine by the way, but doesn't relate in my case FTR. If it isn't the dividing of the assets that is difficult, and sometimes it is very difficult, it is the figuring out how much he can bring into the next R after having to split half of the monthly fixed income with the exW. Some men are very grandiose by nature and have difficulty feeling like they can live up to the standard he used to after D. If he can't give his new W what he gave to his exW he may not feel it is worth the effort of D.

[silktricks]

Aw be a better sport than that! Any college English teacher will point that rule out and it's usually a pretty good disclaimer but I guess it doesn't work with you. Oh well.

 

All the rest of your post is pretty much generalizing, which is fine by the way, but doesn't relate in my case FTR. If it isn't the dividing of the assets that is difficult, and sometimes it is very difficult, it is the figuring out how much he can bring into the next R after having to split half of the monthly fixed income with the exW. Some men are very grandiose by nature and have difficulty feeling like they can live up to the standard he used to after D. If he can't give his new W what he gave to his exW he may not feel it is worth the effort of D.

 

It was use of the word grateful that confused me...

 

Anyway, what you say here, is true (obviously) in your case. Just not necessarily most (and certainly not all )

[White Flower]

It was use of the word grateful that confused me...

 

Anyway, what you say here, is true (obviously) in your case. Just not necessarily most (and certainly not all )

Love it silk, and I DID mean to generalize the word, 'grateful'--it was not specifically aimed at you.

[OWoman]

I actually think younger men have a harder time divorcing for an affair than do older men. Older men generally speaking will be in their minds "trading up" to a younger, more vibrant, sexually active woman than will a young man.

 

OK, perhaps we need to qualify what we each mean by "older" vs "younger".... To my mind, "younger" would be a guy of around 35, since I'd consider anything below that to be a boy rather than a man... but some people might consider that as being "older (if they were in their 20s, say...)

 

That said, my first H Dd his first W in his 20s (she was older) though he dumped his (younger) OW not too long after that, too.

 

On the "doing vs having" thing - I'm very much a "doing" person, and I've noticed the "having" thing to be far more of a marker of class rather than gender. The doctor's W loves to have stuff, because it marks her out as belonging to the doctor class (while the doctor himself - practicing as a doctor - doesn't need external markers to indicate that; he has his practice, his MB ChB MCh FRCoPS and his presidential citation to do that); but then so does the judge's husband, himself a middle manager at a retail firm. Squeezing his huge Merc into the narrow parking spaces designed for his colleagues' Toyotas gives him a sense of pride, as do his monogrammed shirts and bespoke suits.