Wife not remorseful about affair...

[confusedinkansas]

No matter if he smiles at you and keeps a stiff upper lip, he must be suffering terribly, even without knowing about your affair.

 

Samantha - I know this is directed at you - but I couldn't hold my fingers still.......................My goodness - This to me seems SO overly dramatic...I can't even begin to think why on earth he would have to be SUFFERING TERRIBLY! ?

 

Samantha - I'm waiting to read your response to this 'bashing!' by someone that apparently was the "fly on the wall"

 

(samantha - when you left your husband - Was it for your affair partner - or another reason? sorry, if you already said - my apologies, I haven't read every single post here)

[silverfish]

Samantha, I certainly don't think you're "anti-social."

 

On the other hand, I don't see any real empathy towards your husband reflected in your posts, at least not in this thread.

 

About the only thing you've posted which indicates you might have some form of empathy towards him is when you stated that you didn't tell him about your affair because he had told you in the past he wouldn't want to know, and you don't want to hurt him.

 

The reason that that one thing is not a persuasive example of empathetic feeling or behavior, is because it actually sounds more like a technicality or loophole that you're using to justify not telling him the truth.

 

Clearly, the context of whatever past discussion you might have had with your husband about not telling each about an affair if it happened, was that he didn't want you to have an affair in the first place. That was the primary issue, wasn't it? The part about not having the affair in the first place, I mean.

 

So, your justification for not telling him is simply a rationalization. If you were actually concerned about not doing something that your husband didn't want you to do, or which would make your husband unhappy, you wouldn't have had the affair in the first place.

 

The obvious reason you don't want to tell him about the affair is because, at least for right now, you don't want to take the risk that he will divorce you. Although last June you had essentially left the marriage (which is why I think you gave yourself "permission" to have the affair, albeit you were not technically divorced yet), and I'm sure your h didn't want you to do that either. So "obedience to your husband's wishes" or "concern for how he would feel" as the rationalization for not telling him, just won't fly.

 

Another reason I suspect you don't want to divulge the affair is that it will quite obviously make you the "at fault" party if a divorce does occur. By concealing it from your h, concealing it from your children, and concealing it from everyone else, if and when you do split up finally, you can convey the impression that it was your h's "fault." He was not "making you happy." By not disclosing, you can try to maintain your image in the community and with your family as a devout, upright woman.

 

When you separated from your h last June, what did you tell your family (or your husband for that matter) as to why you did that? You had already started some kind of at least emotional relationship with your affair partner, although not yet sexual relations. If everyone knew about the affair partner and your affair, the assumption would be that you separated so you could have "space" to conduct your sexual affair. (They might also assume you've done it before as well.) If you don't tell anyone, however, the assumption will be that your husband in some mysterious way, failed to make you happy. (Or possibly abused you in some way.)

 

Now I think I posted it previously, but the surest indication that you are lacking in empathy towards your husband, is that you described him as "happy" although you were on the verge of ending the marriage last June; moved out of the home; and after your return, have not resumed having sex with him. Describing a man as "happy" under those circumstances is not only a sign of a lack of any empathy towards him; it's also a sign that at least in this regard, you're rather clueless about typical human behavior. Not only do you obviously have an inability to actually feel your husband's unhappiness, a literal "lack of empathy"; you don't even seem to realize that any man (or woman) in your husband's current situation could not possibly be accurately described as "happy."

 

No matter if he smiles at you and keeps a stiff upper lip, he must be suffering terribly, even without knowing about your affair.

 

Surely you realize that your husband must at least suspect that you were with a lover when you separated from him? Why else would a woman move out to her own apartment? Does your husband have any male friends, esp. any friends who were involved in infidelity either as victims or as perpetrators? I would have to speculate, "yes." Do you think during the several months of separation, your husband never asked his friends, his family, "Why did she do this?" (Perhaps your husband even visited a "relationship" board on the internet like this one, and educated himself!) I would guarantee that the first thing any of his male friends would have told him would be to suspect you of having a "boyfriend."

 

What about your adult children? Do you actually believe no one suspects?

 

...And then of course, you have said you first met your affair partner hanging out listening to bands, drinking beer, etc. (if I remember correctly) and it grew from there.

 

Do you think no one saw you?

 

It seems like you are at some point going to hit a huge "reality check" and you will be very surprised by it. You have mentioned getting some counseling and I do think that would be a good idea because I do not believe your reality-testing mechanism is very good, based on what you have posted here.

 

Regarding the bolded part - plenty of women move out / leave without having any involvement with someone else. I did it, my ex mother in law did it. I don't think it was helpful for any of my exs male friends to be constantly in his ear calling me a cheater just because I wanted out of the relationship.

 

In fact, it was the accusations & suspicion that led to HIM to go out drinking and clubbing with his 'friends', sleeping with someone else, which made me believe he was not interested in working it out with me. When I eventually meet my BF, it was a self fulfilling prophesy. This was over 6 months after I moved out.

[zwieback.toast]

Samantha - I know this is directed at you - but I couldn't hold my fingers still.......................My goodness - This to me seems SO overly dramatic...I can't even begin to think why on earth he would have to be SUFFERING TERRIBLY! ?

 

Samantha - I'm waiting to read your response to this 'bashing!' by someone that apparently was the "fly on the wall"

 

(samantha - when you left your husband - Was it for your affair partner - or another reason? sorry, if you already said - my apologies, I haven't read every single post here)

 

 

Why is it difficult for you to understand that a husband whose wife essentially abandoned him for several months to live on her own; then since her return, they have never had sex; would not be "suffering terribly"?

 

So would a woman, whose husband had done the same thing.

 

By the way, why do you think it is "bashing" samantha for me to point out what a typical spouse's typical reaction would be?

[Samantha0905]

Samantha, I certainly don't think you're "anti-social."

 

On the other hand, I don't see any real empathy towards your husband reflected in your posts, at least not in this thread.

 

I have concern for my husband -- I worry about how his business is doing and how it effects him, I worry about how his family effects him, I worry about the fact I haven't been true to him, etc. I do think he's a good man who deserves to be happy. I have empathy for him because his father is ill and probably going to die soon. I've been through that and know what it feels like.

 

About the only thing you've posted which indicates you might have some form of empathy towards him is when you stated that you didn't tell him about your affair because he had told you in the past he wouldn't want to know, and you don't want to hurt him.

 

The reason that that one thing is not a persuasive example of empathetic feeling or behavior, is because it actually sounds more like a technicality or loophole that you're using to justify not telling him the truth.

Well, I suppose we all use justifications at times. I simply do not want to break his heart.

 

Clearly, the context of whatever past discussion you might have had with your husband about not telling each about an affair if it happened, was that he didn't want you to have an affair in the first place. That was the primary issue, wasn't it? The part about not having the affair in the first place, I mean.

Well, certainly. Nor would I want him to have an affair.

 

So, your justification for not telling him is simply a rationalization. If you were actually concerned about not doing something that your husband didn't want you to do, or which would make your husband unhappy, you wouldn't have had the affair in the first place.

That's assuming I'm a perfect person. I'm not. I make mistakes. In the instance of the affair, I made a huge -- oops, sorry -- very poor choice. Disastrous. Selfish.

 

The obvious reason you don't want to tell him about the affair is because, at least for right now, you don't want to take the risk that he will divorce you. Although last June you had essentially left the marriage (which is why I think you gave yourself "permission" to have the affair, albeit you were not technically divorced yet), and I'm sure your h didn't want you to do that either. So "obedience to your husband's wishes" or "concern for how he would feel" as the rationalization for not telling him, just won't fly.

Well, they fly for me. I knew I was doing wrong. I knew living in an apartment, I was still married. I had left the marriage -- emotionally -- more or less at that point. I never quite came to the realization I wanted a divorce though. I think it's because deep down, even though there were tremendous problems with me internally and some in the marriage -- I did not want a divorce. I do not want a divorce.

 

Another reason I suspect you don't want to divulge the affair is that it will quite obviously make you the "at fault" party if a divorce does occur. By concealing it from your h, concealing it from your children, and concealing it from everyone else, if and when you do split up finally, you can convey the impression that it was your h's "fault." He was not "making you happy." By not disclosing, you can try to maintain your image in the community and with your family as a devout, upright woman.

Now, you're putting way to much emphasis here on how much I value what other people think of me. I value my husband's opinion of me. I value my children's. I value my brothers' and sisters' opinions, but they would not be extremely judgmental and would be supportive anyway. Ultimately, my children would still love me also. I don't think people think of me as a devout, upright woman. I'm more of a free spirit. I am a Christian, but I don't feel like I have to be in church every Sunday, etc. In fact, I haven't been to church in at least a year or so. I'm bothered by how churches have many man-made rules which aren't exactly Biblical. For example Southern Baptist attitudes about drinking, about women being ministers, etc. Don't get me started on that. My point is, I'm not someone who worries a whole lot about other people's judgments regarding me.

 

When you separated from your h last June, what did you tell your family (or your husband for that matter) as to why you did that? You had already started some kind of at least emotional relationship with your affair partner, although not yet sexual relations. If everyone knew about the affair partner and your affair, the assumption would be that you separated so you could have "space" to conduct your sexual affair. (They might also assume you've done it before as well.) If you don't tell anyone, however, the assumption will be that your husband in some mysterious way, failed to make you happy. (Or possibly abused you in some way.)

I told my sister who is my best friend. She knew of the previous issues and she does think my husband can be controlling/chauvinistic about some things -- and she also thinks he is a very good man in many respects. She mostly thinks I'm just not completely in love with him and wants me to be happy. A lot of my siblings didn't know I was living in an apartment, so I wasn't telling them anything about it.

 

My husband I stayed on decent terms during my apartment stay. We were civil and friendly. We occasionally did things together. My children knew we were separated, but I didn't tell them about the sexual dissatisfaction -- I would not discuss that with my children -- adults or no. I doubt they want to hear about their mom and dad's sexual relationship. I told them I needed some space as I wasn't sure I wanted to be married anymore. They know already their father is more conservative and I'm more free-spirited and at times I've felt oppressed in the relationship.

 

Now I think I posted it previously, but the surest indication that you are lacking in empathy towards your husband, is that you described him as "happy" although you were on the verge of ending the marriage last June; moved out of the home; and after your return, have not resumed having sex with him. Describing a man as "happy" under those circumstances is not only a sign of a lack of any empathy towards him; it's also a sign that at least in this regard, you're rather clueless about typical human behavior. Not only do you obviously have an inability to actually feel your husband's unhappiness, a literal "lack of empathy"; you don't even seem to realize that any man (or woman) in your husband's current situation could not possibly be accurately described as "happy."

Look, it's difficult to "talk" via type. If you've latched onto that one word I used -- just like some people do the word mistake -- that's fine. I don't think my husband is deliriously happy with our relationship at the moment. I do know we're friends.

 

It's not that I don't understand his unhappiness in us not having a glorious sex life. Or for that matter, a nonexistent sex life. As you pointed out earlier, I've been somewhat strong in staying in the marriage feeling the way I have anyway. I've also been weak in that I didn't address the problem much sooner. I'm trying to work through my feelings, but I have a right to my feelings also.

 

Yes, we obviously need to discuss the issue. I suppose I should stop saying I'm going to make an IC appointment and actually do it. It's a hard thing to face.

 

No matter if he smiles at you and keeps a stiff upper lip, he must be suffering terribly, even without knowing about your affair.

Probably so. Me too.

 

Surely you realize that your husband must at least suspect that you were with a lover when you separated from him? Why else would a woman move out to her own apartment? Does your husband have any male friends, esp. any friends who were involved in infidelity either as victims or as perpetrators? I would have to speculate, "yes." Do you think during the several months of separation, your husband never asked his friends, his family, "Why did she do this?" (Perhaps your husband even visited a "relationship" board on the internet like this one, and educated himself!) I would guarantee that the first thing any of his male friends would have told him would be to suspect you of having a "boyfriend."

Actually, one of my problems with my husband is he is such a homebody. He doesn't hang out with friends like I do. Or he didn't. One of the more positive outcomes of me moving out is he finally started hanging out with friends -- he goes to a poker night and stag nights at the Country Club. I forever tried to make couples friends for us, but he just didn't enjoy it. He was polite, but I think people pick up on it when one member of the couple really doesn't want to be out to dinner, at the movies with them, etc. Now, in his defense -- he has always enjoyed a date night with me -- movies, dinner.

 

Another good outcome of my moving out when I did was it was over summer break and my son was home from college. They had a friendly relationship, but my husband really had a difficult time accepting my son is gay. When I left, they developed a much closer relationship as I wasn't there for my son to talk to -- so low and behold they started communicating. They seem like much better friends now.

 

I imagine my husband does suspect something. He never asked, however. I honestly wish he had. I told him once after I moved back in it really bothered me he never asked why I was unhappy or why I moved out. He still didn't ask -- even after I said that.

 

What about your adult children? Do you actually believe no one suspects?

My son talked with me about why I was unhappy. He also understood his father was unhappy with the situation -- but they don't talk about things like that. I don't know if my daughter suspected or not, but she never asked and we are really good friends. She works with her father and is close to him also.

 

...And then of course, you have said you first met your affair partner hanging out listening to bands, drinking beer, etc. (if I remember correctly) and it grew from there.

 

Do you think no one saw you?

I met him at the gym and later, we ended up going to the outdoor band thing. I definitely think people saw me. Some people I knew at times even came over and talked to me. Where I live is a medium sized city -- probably to smaller to some. I just stood around and sipped beer, however, and usually had a friend in tow as did he. The kissing episode was down a street where I had parked. I'm not one for PDA, but to tell the truth when all that was happening, I obviously was not thinking very well. I was totally frustrated and had a "Hell's Bells" attitude. I'm not proud of it, but it was how I felt at the time.

 

It seems like you are at some point going to hit a huge "reality check" and you will be very surprised by it. You have mentioned getting some counseling and I do think that would be a good idea because I do not believe your reality-testing mechanism is very good, based on what you have posted here.

 

I may very well get a very big reality check. Maybe I'm incorrect in getting so angry over the lack of communication. I tried for so many years to express my issues in our relationship -- the lack of communication, etc. My husband did not for years like to discuss much other than surface niceties. Again -- in his defense -- he is doing much, much better now.

 

Do I think he might pop up one day and ask if I have had an affair? Perhaps. I think I would probably burst out crying and tell him yes.

 

Do I think he might pop up and show me all sorts of evidence -- photos, texts, etc. and say he has had a P.I. follow me? Possibly. When his brother first started going through a divorce, my husband suggested he hire a P.I. AND had all his brothers' lawyer stuff mailed here. He has quite a few times during our marriage pointed out to me a lot of his ownership in the company is gifted and gifted property is not included in a divorce settlement. Now, he did that from way long ago -- and I always thought it was a tacky thing to announce. That was long before I ever entertained the thought of an affair.

 

Anyway, perhaps a rude awakening will be for the best.

 

I frankly don't know. Obviously.

[Samantha0905]

^^^^^ Sorry for all the bolded type. If I take the time to correct it, I probably won't be able to edit the above post by then -- so I just won't.

[zwieback.toast]

Regarding the bolded part - plenty of women move out / leave without having any involvement with someone else.

 

Perhaps, but then presumably they have another reason for doing so. I.e. it could be the spouse's own infidelity, abuse, etc. We are talking about a situation in this case in which samantha exited from an apparently otherwise satisfactory relationship. She has pointed out nothing wrong with her relationship with her h other than a lack of satisfactory sex.

 

And, the "bolded part" merely states a fact--that typically in that situation, the husband's male friends would council him to suspect an affair. In the absence of some other apparent reason, why would this be so hard to fathom? And in this particular case, it would be correct, wouldn't it? Why does it offend you if samantha's h's friends may have cautioned him to suspect an affair? Anyone who had actually told him that would have been correct, and would have been doing him a favor.

 

 

I did it, my ex mother in law did it. I don't think it was helpful for any of my exs male friends to be constantly in his ear calling me a cheater just because I wanted out of the relationship.

 

Well, my post was not directed to you nor to your mother in law. It was directed to samantha who has posted quite a bit about her particular situation and her h's reaction as far as we are aware of it.

 

I have no idea why you separated from your husband. Nor do I know why your ex mother in law separated from her spouse. But, whatever the reason, you acknowledge that your ex's friends were telling him to suspect cheating on your part. That's all I suggested to samantha that her husband's friends probably did as well. So your own anecdote simply confirms what I had suggested to samantha--that her h's friends probably told him to suspect her of cheating, and therefore, samantha's husband might at least suspect the possibility. It is simply the first thing that people suspect in these sorts of situations.

 

I don't know why you separated from your husband, and you don't indicate why in this post. However, since you had already made the decision that you "wanted out of the relationship," i.e. no chance of reconciliation, I don't really see why you believe that whatever your ex's friends were saying to him about you was not "helpful." You decided you wanted out. You got out. Obviously people are going to gossip if they don't know the real reason for a separation. But what difference would it have made? If your ex's friends had not suspected you of cheating, would you have wanted to reconcile?

 

 

In fact, it was the accusations & suspicion that led to HIM to go out drinking and clubbing with his 'friends', sleeping with someone else, which made me believe he was not interested in working it out with me. When I eventually meet my BF, it was a self fulfilling prophesy. This was over 6 months after I moved out.

 

LOL. OK so you did get with another man after you separated (but I guess before your divorced?), but that's your ex's fault, or his friends' fault, for preemptively suspecting you of doing what you did actually end up doing.

 

But when you initially left, you said you "wanted out of the relationship." So why would you even care if your ex then started getting with another woman? You had already declared yourself "out". The relationship was over. Why would your ex have been interested in "working it out" if you had left him because you "wanted out"? I guess your ex just took you at your word, you asked for your freedom and he gave it to you, but in the process, took his own freedom for himself.

[Samantha0905]

Samantha - I know this is directed at you - but I couldn't hold my fingers still.......................My goodness - This to me seems SO overly dramatic...I can't even begin to think why on earth he would have to be SUFFERING TERRIBLY! ?

 

Samantha - I'm waiting to read your response to this 'bashing!' by someone that apparently was the "fly on the wall"

 

(samantha - when you left your husband - Was it for your affair partner - or another reason? sorry, if you already said - my apologies, I haven't read every single post here)

 

No -- it was not for the affair partner. I had been going through a lot of things which led to severe unhappiness. I just really felt like I needed space to figure out what I wanted to do. In retrospect, I could have been "escaping" because I felt I was going to be so terribly lonely without my children in the house. We have a great relationship and I did a lot of things with them. My son went to theater with me all the time. My daughter chatters non-stop and is full of life I think in my head I just couldn't endure dealing with it just being me and my husband. As I've said, my husband isn't a mean person or anything -- he's just not been real communicative or intimate. He's doing much better now. I know I need to do the same. It's difficult for me because I do miss my AP and I also know it's going to be very difficult to come to terms with the sexual stuff.

[Samantha0905]

Perhaps, but then presumably they have another reason for doing so. I.e. it could be the spouse's own infidelity, abuse, etc. We are talking about a situation in this case in which samantha exited from an apparently otherwise satisfactory relationship. She has pointed out nothing wrong with her relationship with her h other than a lack of satisfactory sex.

 

It's not just a lack of satisfactory sex. It's a lack of real intimacy. I don't think the two should be confused. They are separate things and go hand in hand.

 

By the way, I'm sure -- as I've stated -- it's very possible his friends would suspect and suggest an affair. I honestly don't think he told his friends I had moved out. He told his mother I was at our beach home and coming back and forth. I really don't think he told any of his friends except two good friends -- one's a work friend and one's a church friend. The work friend is the type to definitely stay out of it and the second probably told him he was sorry and he would pray for us. That's just my thoughts -- knowing the two men he told.

 

My husband would not tell too many people. He would rather them not know.

[silverfish]

Perhaps, but then presumably they have another reason for doing so. I.e. it could be the spouse's own infidelity, abuse, etc. We are talking about a situation in this case in which samantha exited from an apparently otherwise satisfactory relationship. She has pointed out nothing wrong with her relationship with her h other than a lack of satisfactory sex.

 

And intimacy, which are the same reasons I left my H. I tried for many years to address this with him, to no avail. There were other issues but that was the big one

 

However, since you had already made the decision that you "wanted out of the relationship," i.e. no chance of reconciliation, I don't really see why you believe that whatever your ex's friends were saying to him about you was not "helpful." You decided you wanted out. You got out. Obviously people are going to gossip if they don't know the real reason for a separation. But what difference would it have made? If your ex's friends had not suspected you of cheating, would you have wanted to reconcile?

 

I left him because I believed at the time he didn't love me anymore. He said words to that effect - he didn't consider me to be a friend, he couldn't stand sleeping in the same bed and so on, so yes, I wanted out of that situation. I wanted it to change though, so something had to give, and that was me..so in a way I wanted a reconciliation, based on our both dealing with those obvious problems

 

LOL. OK so you did get with another man after you separated (but I guess before your divorced?), but that's your ex's fault, or his friends' fault, for preemptively suspecting you of doing what you did actually end up doing.

 

Cheating isn't the same as starting a new relationship when another relationship is over, so yes its very different. I didn't consider it until he got a girlfriend.

 

But when you initially left, you said you "wanted out of the relationship." So why would you even care if your ex then started getting with another woman? You had already declared yourself "out". The relationship was over. Why would your ex have been interested in "working it out" if you had left him because you "wanted out"? I guess your ex just took you at your word, you asked for your freedom and he gave it to you, but in the process, took his own freedom for himself.

 

There are a lot of assumptions but as they are based on how I wrote about my situation, I can't blame you for misunderstanding me. I wanted to get out of the situation that I was in. We were fighting a lot in the end, and it got quite nasty on his part, we have 2 children. We also had a business together, and it was 24/7. One of us had to do something for our own sanity, and that was me. I can live with the consequences of that, however much it hurt at the time.

[zwieback.toast]

It's not just a lack of satisfactory sex. It's a lack of real intimacy. I don't think the two should be confused. They are separate things and go hand in hand.

 

I've often heard it said that sexual problems in a marriage are merely a symptom of a broader lack of intimacy and communications difficulties throughout the marriage. If that's the case as it apparently has been for you, then the affair may give a person a little bit of relief but it's only a temporary fix. It's possible that's what's happening in your own case. If it's a temporary fix, then maybe the affair just "burns itself out." And then if you want to repair the marriage, you're back where you started, only now you have the baggage of the infidelity laid on top of all the other issues.

 

If you're correct--and I don't see why you wouldn't be--that the issues of your marriage are much broader than merely sexual dissatisfaction, that the sex part of it is a symptom of the problems and not the cause, then focusing on the lack of sexual satisfaction is not going to solve anything. I'll bet if you are ever able to establish a satisfactory level of communication with your h, you'll find that might just include being able to communicate about the sexual issues as well, and things might improve in that department.

 

On the other hand, if there's a communication or intimacy difficulty between two people, then that's always got to be shared 50-50. It's not just that your husband is uncommunicative with you or non receptive. You're probably exactly the same way with him, only you're not perceiving it that way. So maybe the two of your have gone through an entire marriage that way, neither of you really knowing what to do, neither of you knowing how to take the first step to breaking down that wall.

 

If the lack of communication/intimacy is the problem, then that's just another confirmation that you have to tell your h about the A to save this marriage. Yes you will be taking a big risk, but you will once and for all be breaking down your walls. Now whether your h is able to break down his walls you can't possibly know. That is part of the risk of true intimacy, letting him in to see the "real you" the real samanthatha. The real samantha includes the plusses and the minuses. The real samantha includes the samantha who had an affair. But, it also includes the samantha who stopped the affair and decided to come back home.

 

 

 

By the way, I'm sure -- as I've stated -- it's very possible his friends would suspect and suggest an affair. I honestly don't think he told his friends I had moved out. He told his mother I was at our beach home and coming back and forth. I really don't think he told any of his friends except two good friends -- one's a work friend and one's a church friend. The work friend is the type to definitely stay out of it and the second probably told him he was sorry and he would pray for us. That's just my thoughts -- knowing the two men he told.

 

My husband would not tell too many people. He would rather them not know.

 

Do I think he might pop up and show me all sorts of evidence -- photos, texts, etc. and say he has had a P.I. follow me? Possibly. When his brother first started going through a divorce, my husband suggested he hire a P.I. AND had all his brothers' lawyer stuff mailed here. He has quite a few times during our marriage pointed out to me a lot of his ownership in the company is gifted and gifted property is not included in a divorce settlement. Now, he did that from way long ago -- and I always thought it was a tacky thing to announce. That was long before I ever entertained the thought of an affair.

 

 

 

 

 

O.K. If that's the case then your husband already knows (whether by a p.i. or other means.)

 

Samantha he's testing you now. The test is whether you will voluntarily honestly confess and tell him the truth.

 

I don't know what his time limit for you on this. But I would guess either six months or a year from when you returned. Simply because those are the sorts of deadlines that people set for making decisions of this kind.

[zwieback.toast]

[/b]

 

There are a lot of assumptions but as they are based on how I wrote about my situation, I can't blame you for misunderstanding me. I wanted to get out of the situation that I was in. We were fighting a lot in the end, and it got quite nasty on his part, we have 2 children. We also had a business together, and it was 24/7. One of us had to do something for our own sanity, and that was me. I can live with the consequences of that, however much it hurt at the time.

 

 

Well you were I guess trying to respond to a point I had made to samantha, which was simply that when a woman separates from her husband for no obvious reason, it's very common for the husband's male friends to stir things up by suggesting she must be seeing someone else. Whether that gossip is true or not. (Obviously the husband's friends don't really know what she is or isn't doing.) Now the same thing probably would apply if a man left his wife with no explanation and got an apartment; her female friends would probably be just as accusatory of him.

 

(I'm not sure why that struck you as something that was an unfair statement on my part, since it actually happened to you.)

 

In any event, once either partner makes the decision to physically separate from the other spouse, it's very very difficult to reconcile under any circumstances, and it's much much easier for either party who is hurting to do something or make a poor decision which may make reconciliation impossible. Unfortunately that seems to have happened in your case.

 

Hopefully you will have better luck in your current relationship.

[silverfish]

Well, I don't know whether its true that it's very difficult to reconcile after a physical separation. I only have anecdotal evidence myself, and it seems to happen quite often. Happened to my sister and her H (3 year separation after an affair), my ex MIL went back to her H after 6 months (neither of them were with anyone else far as I know), my parents (although they ended up divorced), my BF and her H (2 yrs apart, both met other people - she was engaged to someone else at one point!)

 

Maybe its a cultural thing, I don't know. Its not that uncommon here in the UK.

 

Its also not an impossiblity that my ex & I could reconcile, if I could get to the point that I could candidly discuss the intimacy issues we had when we were together. We've had a lot of talks recently about other stuff that happened and also what happened with our recent relationships (with other people).

 

I think life is a journey, and I don't know what could happen in the future. A reconciliation is more likely now though I think, than it was before I moved out.

[zwieback.toast]

Well, I don't know whether its true that it's very difficult to reconcile after a physical separation. I only have anecdotal evidence myself, and it seems to happen quite often. Happened to my sister and her H (3 year separation after an affair), my ex MIL went back to her H after 6 months (neither of them were with anyone else far as I know), my parents (although they ended up divorced), my BF and her H (2 yrs apart, both met other people - she was engaged to someone else at one point!)

 

Maybe its a cultural thing, I don't know. Its not that uncommon here in the UK.

 

Its also not an impossiblity that my ex & I could reconcile, if I could get to the point that I could candidly discuss the intimacy issues we had when we were together. We've had a lot of talks recently about other stuff that happened and also what happened with our recent relationships (with other people).

 

I think life is a journey, and I don't know what could happen in the future. A reconciliation is more likely now though I think, than it was before I moved out.

 

 

What color is your trailer?

[zwieback.toast]

"my husband can be controlling/chauvinistic about some things"

 

your H seems to be controlling freak...you had an A....try connecting them

 

 

LOL she really showed him though, didn't she?

 

That's why samantha is ultimately going to tell her husband.

 

The fat lady hasn't sung until she's rubbed the affair in his face and openly humiliated him, and told him how much better her affair partner was at sex than her h.

 

She will crush the manhood of that controlling chauvinist. She has no reason not to at this point. No financial worries if a divorce happens (according to a prior post); no kids (all grown up).

[confusedinkansas]

No -- it was not for the affair partner. I had been going through a lot of things which led to severe unhappiness. I just really felt like I needed space to figure out what I wanted to do. In retrospect, I could have been "escaping" because I felt I was going to be so terribly lonely without my children in the house. We have a great relationship and I did a lot of things with them. My son went to theater with me all the time. My daughter chatters non-stop and is full of life I think in my head I just couldn't endure dealing with it just being me and my husband. As I've said, my husband isn't a mean person or anything -- he's just not been real communicative or intimate. He's doing much better now. I know I need to do the same. It's difficult for me because I do miss my AP and I also know it's going to be very difficult to come to terms with the sexual stuff.

 

My goodness........You & I could be one in the same!

 

Why do people here automatically think that when you leave your spouse, you're leaving for someone else. Hasn't anyone ever heard of leaving for YOURSELF? For your own sanity. I totally get it.

 

 

By the way, why do you think it is "bashing" samantha for me to point out what a typical spouse's typical reaction would be?

 

The "Typical" spouses reaction? There is no "Typical" when it comes to affairs. People handle these kinds of things differently. In your terms of "Typical" then my husband should have crawled under a rock - or was DEVISTATED & divorced me over my affair. None of which happened.

 

I also know of other incidences where a wife or husband found out about their spouse having an affair & they are still Married - I know I'm shocked too (she says sarcastically) Because shouldn't everyone divorce when an affair happens? NO....Some maybe. But it isn't a "Typical" response.

[Samantha0905]

I've often heard it said that sexual problems in a marriage are merely a symptom of a broader lack of intimacy and communications difficulties throughout the marriage. If that's the case as it apparently has been for you, then the affair may give a person a little bit of relief but it's only a temporary fix. It's possible that's what's happening in your own case. If it's a temporary fix, then maybe the affair just "burns itself out." And then if you want to repair the marriage, you're back where you started, only now you have the baggage of the infidelity laid on top of all the other issues.

 

True -- and now I'm comparing the affair sex to sex I've had with my husband. I'll be the first to say -- in hindsight -- an affair is not the way to go.

 

It's weird with the AP -- I could just never commit to being with just him and he finally just felt like I had to make a choice. I can't say that I blame him and I think both of us ended up hurt -- rightfully so.

 

If you're correct--and I don't see why you wouldn't be--that the issues of your marriage are much broader than merely sexual dissatisfaction, that the sex part of it is a symptom of the problems and not the cause, then focusing on the lack of sexual satisfaction is not going to solve anything. I'll bet if you are ever able to establish a satisfactory level of communication with your h, you'll find that might just include being able to communicate about the sexual issues as well, and things might improve in that department.

 

On the other hand, if there's a communication or intimacy difficulty between two people, then that's always got to be shared 50-50. It's not just that your husband is uncommunicative with you or non receptive. You're probably exactly the same way with him, only you're not perceiving it that way. So maybe the two of your have gone through an entire marriage that way, neither of you really knowing what to do, neither of you knowing how to take the first step to breaking down that wall.

 

Yes, I know now it is me not communicating with him also. I don't have that problem with other people in my life. I'm very communicative. I think after trying to rectify that in my relationship with him for so long, I've given up over time. Admittedly, however, I've never been able to communicate with him about the sexual matters.

 

If the lack of communication/intimacy is the problem, then that's just another confirmation that you have to tell your h about the A to save this marriage. Yes you will be taking a big risk, but you will once and for all be breaking down your walls. Now whether your h is able to break down his walls you can't possibly know. That is part of the risk of true intimacy, letting him in to see the "real you" the real samanthatha. The real samantha includes the plusses and the minuses. The real samantha includes the samantha who had an affair. But, it also includes the samantha who stopped the affair and decided to come back home.

 

Yes, you're probably right -- and it will be a very difficult thing for me to do. I don't know if I'll ever be able to have sex with him again without us discussing everything -- or at least the sexual issues. I know some here have thought I have no remorse, but I do. I have enough remorse that I don't seem to be able to allow myself to have sex with him. Perhaps it's because I haven't told him. I suppose eventually it will all come to a head.

 

O.K. If that's the case then your husband already knows (whether by a p.i. or other means.)

 

Samantha he's testing you now. The test is whether you will voluntarily honestly confess and tell him the truth.

 

I don't know what his time limit for you on this. But I would guess either six months or a year from when you returned. Simply because those are the sorts of deadlines that people set for making decisions of this kind.

 

It's ironic -- and I really don't take any of this stuff lightly -- its just sometimes I laugh instead of cry. I think I may be testing him also. It drives me insane he never asked why I moved out or whether I had an affair or not. The entire reason I moved out is because I felt so unhappy and like we don't communicate well. I've told him this. I even told him it bothered me he didn't ask why I moved out -- as I said before -- yet, he still didn't/hasn't ask(ed).

 

The ironic thing is that by him testing me and me testing him -- we still are not communicating.

 

He's planned trips for us through mid-summer -- one being his 50th birthday celebration -- a two week trip. Perhaps he's going to tell me to take a hike then. I don't know. It doesn't appear that way, but perhaps that's the case.

 

In any event, if that occurs -- I will always feel the affair was a mistake on my part as far as my marriage is concerned -- but I think the lack of communication/intimacy is on both of us and the real problem in the marriage.

[zwieback.toast]

My goodness........You & I could be one in the same!

 

Why do people here automatically think that when you leave your spouse, you're leaving for someone else.

 

Well the alternative would be living alone for the rest of your life. When someone leaves an existing relationship, they might not have someone specific already lined up; but they must OBVIOUSLY be contemplating the notion of getting involved with someone "new" (perhaps someone they haven't met yet). That's why people leave existing relationships. So they can be free to form new ones with new people.

 

 

Hasn't anyone ever heard of leaving for YOURSELF? For your own sanity. I totally get it.

 

Yes I've heard of that. However it's not applicable here. Neither samantha nor silverfish stated that they had to leave their relationships for their "own sanity." As a matter of fact samantha has returned to her marriage. And silverfish now indicates that reconciliation is not something she would entirely rule out.

 

In the interim, both samantha and silverfish had relationships with other people.

 

 

 

The "Typical" spouses reaction? There is no "Typical" when it comes to affairs. People handle these kinds of things differently. In your terms of "Typical" then my husband should have crawled under a rock - or was DEVISTATED & divorced me over my affair. None of which happened.

 

I'm not sure what your "issue" here is confusedinkansas. This started simply because I told samantha her husband's buddies probably suggested that she might be having an affair. Samantha didn't deny that as being a possiblity. Silverfish admitted that's exactly what happened to her.

 

Tell me what did your husband's friends tell him when you separated from him? None of them suggested you might be seeing someone else? If so then your situation is not typical at all.

 

 

I also know of other incidences where a wife or husband found out about their spouse having an affair & they are still Married - I know I'm shocked too (she says sarcastically) Because shouldn't everyone divorce when an affair happens? NO....Some maybe. But it isn't a "Typical" response.

 

 

So you're saying your h is happy you had an affair and that it improved your m?

[Samantha0905]

Well, I don't know whether its true that it's very difficult to reconcile after a physical separation. I only have anecdotal evidence myself, and it seems to happen quite often. Happened to my sister and her H (3 year separation after an affair), my ex MIL went back to her H after 6 months (neither of them were with anyone else far as I know), my parents (although they ended up divorced), my BF and her H (2 yrs apart, both met other people - she was engaged to someone else at one point!)

 

Maybe its a cultural thing, I don't know. Its not that uncommon here in the UK.

 

Its also not an impossiblity that my ex & I could reconcile, if I could get to the point that I could candidly discuss the intimacy issues we had when we were together. We've had a lot of talks recently about other stuff that happened and also what happened with our recent relationships (with other people).

 

I think life is a journey, and I don't know what could happen in the future. A reconciliation is more likely now though I think, than it was before I moved out.

 

I don't think it's that uncommon here either.

 

I'm sorry for your intimacy issues and I hope, if it's for the best, the two of you will be able to discuss things.

 

Life is a journey and sometimes we learn the hard way as we go alone. We certainly are not perfect and make bad choices. We also make choices others think are bad, but turn out to be good for us in the long run.

 

I'm glad you and your husband are talking more and if it works out you reconcile, I hope you are happy.

[Samantha0905]

"my husband can be controlling/chauvinistic about some things"

 

your H seems to be controlling freak...you had an A....try connecting them

 

Rude, as usual. And the timing of events does not go with your logic.

 

What color is your trailer?

 

Ummm, I'm not sure what you meant by that -- but if you meant what I think you did -- extremely rude.

 

LOL she really showed him though, didn't she?

 

That's why samantha is ultimately going to tell her husband.

 

The fat lady hasn't sung until she's rubbed the affair in his face and openly humiliated him, and told him how much better her affair partner was at sex than her h.

 

She will crush the manhood of that controlling chauvinist. She has no reason not to at this point. No financial worries if a divorce happens (according to a prior post); no kids (all grown up).

 

Extremely, extremely rude?

 

I enjoy rational discussion and varying opinions -- but there's no need for personal insults.

 

You're right -- there would be no financial worries.

 

Children -- whether still young or adults -- are aways your children.

[Samantha0905]

My goodness........You & I could be one in the same!

 

Why do people here automatically think that when you leave your spouse, you're leaving for someone else. Hasn't anyone ever heard of leaving for YOURSELF? For your own sanity. I totally get it.

 

 

 

 

The "Typical" spouses reaction? There is no "Typical" when it comes to affairs. People handle these kinds of things differently. In your terms of "Typical" then my husband should have crawled under a rock - or was DEVISTATED & divorced me over my affair. None of which happened.

 

I also know of other incidences where a wife or husband found out about their spouse having an affair & they are still Married - I know I'm shocked too (she says sarcastically) Because shouldn't everyone divorce when an affair happens? NO....Some maybe. But it isn't a "Typical" response.

 

I couldn't agree more. Sometimes it could be a wake up call and both spouses realize how much they love each other and want to stay married -- so they work hard to try to make a go of it.

[Disintegration]

Just out of curiousity, to those who have strayed in their marriage and their spouses actually stayed with them. Were you ever concerned that your spouse might do to you what you did to them which was betray the marriage and cheat. A revenge affair if you will? Are you certain they aren't or haven't already plotted to secretly cheat on you behind your back to make themselves feel better. Are you confident in them? I have heard of some instances where one wanted to pay the other back. Personally I would leave the relationship all together if I had been betrayed like that. I know some might say you never know until you are in that situation, but NO WAY, I couldn't ever be with someone knowing they did all kinds of sexual things that broke our vows.

[Samantha0905]

Just out of curiousity, to those who have strayed in their marriage and their spouses actually stayed with them. Were you ever concerned that your spouse might do to you what you did to them which was betray the marriage and cheat. A revenge affair if you will? Are you certain they aren't or haven't already plotted to secretly cheat on you behind your back to make themselves feel better. Are you confident in them? I have heard of some instances where one wanted to pay the other back. Personally I would leave the relationship all together if I had been betrayed like that. I know some might say you never know until you are in that situation, but NO WAY, I couldn't ever be with someone knowing they did all kinds of sexual things that broke our vows.

 

Are you male? Married? Just curious because they say a man has a much more difficult time with the physical aspects (sex) of the betrayal whereas women are more bothered by an emotional connection. This of course is in general and not in all cases.

 

In any event, I imagine a revenge affair is very possible and would be a concern. It's a lot for a BS to have to work through. I imagine there are a lot of trust issues in a marriage where an affair has been discovered. It may be, however, the need for a revenge affair does not exist. If the affair was extremely distasteful to the betrayed spouse they may try to work on the marriage and if it doesn't ever feel the same to them -- they leave -- then find someone else. Or it just works out for the couple and they stay together.

[zwieback.toast]

True -- and now I'm comparing the affair sex to sex I've had with my husband. I'll be the first to say -- in hindsight -- an affair is not the way to go.

 

Surely you knew that an affair was not the "way to go" (i.e. an effective way to resolve marital difficulties) with foresight, as well?

 

You have said you were angry with your h's lack of intimacy and communication. And his controlling, chauvinistic nature. You probably had the A at least in part out of that anger and frustration. That was one thing your H could not control.

 

 

It's weird with the AP -- I could just never commit to being with just him and he finally just felt like I had to make a choice. I can't say that I blame him and I think both of us ended up hurt -- rightfully so.

 

Right. That interaction with your affair partner clearly reflects the lack of intimacy is not just your H's issue, it's your issue as well. You left your h, you were effectively done with the marriage, you had an attractive sexual partner, who was willing on some level to make a commitment to you...the brass ring on the merry go round...and you couldn't grab it.

 

 

Yes, I know now it is me not communicating with him also. I don't have that problem with other people in my life. I'm very communicative. I think after trying to rectify that in my relationship with him for so long, I've given up over time. Admittedly, however, I've never been able to communicate with him about the sexual matters.

 

"Other people" are not one's spouse. The level of emotional and physical intimacy is in no way comparable, even with other very close relatives.

 

 

Yes, you're probably right -- and it will be a very difficult thing for me to do. I don't know if I'll ever be able to have sex with him again without us discussing everything -- or at least the sexual issues. I know some here have thought I have no remorse, but I do. I have enough remorse that I don't seem to be able to allow myself to have sex with him. Perhaps it's because I haven't told him. I suppose eventually it will all come to a head.

 

 

I think you are being WAY too passive with this whole thing. It's almost as if you want your h to make the final decision to end the M. Or alternatively to make it better and reconcile.

 

He can't do that now. It's all in your hands. You can never hope to reconcile unless you fully and truthfully confess the affair because you will always have a huge secret from your h unless you do. And spouses can't keep such huge secrets from one another and reach any reasonable level of real intimacy with each other. Your guilt and remorse over the affair prevents you from even having sex with him, according to you. You're finally showing some insight or at least better expressing the insight than previously in this thread. Your affair secret is now what is keeping you from achieving any intimacy with your h. Therefore if you really want to save the marriage and try to become intimate you have to remove the secret from your relationship.

 

That is what EVERYONE who has been advocating confession to your h has been trying to tell you. Tell the truth, tell it all. Your m will either recover or it will end. But if you don't tell, you will have an m in name only, but not a real m.

 

 

 

 

It's ironic -- and I really don't take any of this stuff lightly -- its just sometimes I laugh instead of cry. I think I may be testing him also. It drives me insane he never asked why I moved out or whether I had an affair or not. The entire reason I moved out is because I felt so unhappy and like we don't communicate well. I've told him this. I even told him it bothered me he didn't ask why I moved out -- as I said before -- yet, he still didn't/hasn't ask(ed).

 

So it is driving you crazy that your h is being controlling by not being controlling? He didn't stop you from moving out. He didn't even ask you why you moved out. He didn't even accuse you of having an affair.

 

He did nothing at all to cause all this, nothing at all, don't you see that samantha? Don't you realize that all this "stuff"--the lack of intimacy, the separation, the affair, the end of the affair relationship, even though you had a ready willing and able affair partner who apparently loved you and wanted to mutually commit--it's all coming from inside of you?

 

The lack of intimacy that you perceive as coming from your h is simply a reflection of your own lack of the ability to be intimate, don't you see that?

 

 

The ironic thing is that by him testing me and me testing him -- we still are not communicating.

 

You cannot control what he does, you can only control your own actions. I am simply advocating that if YOU think a lack of communication is the issue in your marriage, or an issue, then you do that. Communicate. Tell him about the affair.

 

 

He's planned trips for us through mid-summer -- one being his 50th birthday celebration -- a two week trip. Perhaps he's going to tell me to take a hike then. I don't know. It doesn't appear that way, but perhaps that's the case.

 

In any event, if that occurs -- I will always feel the affair was a mistake on my part as far as my marriage is concerned -- but I think the lack of communication/intimacy is on both of us and the real problem in the marriage.

 

Samantha, you were the one who made the decision to have the affair, it's your secret to keep or to reveal. Not your husband's.

[Samantha0905]

"Rude, as usual"

 

Saint Mother Theressa, teach me how not to be rude

 

The only way for me to do it as far as your posts are concerned is to add you to my ignore list -- which consists of one person -- but now two. There's an option. Another option is humor -- which I found in what you just called me.

[zwieback.toast]

Rude, as usual. And the timing of events does not go with your logic.

 

 

 

Ummm, I'm not sure what you meant by that -- but if you meant what I think you did -- extremely rude.

 

 

 

Extremely, extremely rude?

 

I enjoy rational discussion and varying opinions -- but there's no need for personal insults.

 

You're right -- there would be no financial worries.

 

Children -- whether still young or adults -- are aways your children.

 

I cant speak for scorp but I didn't see what was rude about his post. As for the "fat lady singing" post, it wasn't meant to be rude, it's entirely serious. If you don't own up to your affair (and assuming your h doesn't just give you the boot at some point) your anger at him will build up and the confrontation will occur. You will tell him these things because you will want to hurt him badly. And it will hurt him badly.

 

Hopefully things don't come to that.