Wife not remorseful about affair...

[zwieback.toast]

"Rude, as usual"

 

Saint Mother Theressa, teach me how not to be rude

 

 

As the designated substitute for Saint Mother Theresa, I hereby declare you officially saved by grace and faith from the venial sin of rudeness.

 

Please say 10 Hail Marys, don't forget the collection plate on your way out, what are you giving up for Lent?

[Samantha0905]

Surely you knew that an affair was not the "way to go" (i.e. an effective way to resolve marital difficulties) with foresight, as well?

 

I've stated having an affair was wrong and I gave in to the temptation.

 

You have said you were angry with your h's lack of intimacy and communication. And his controlling, chauvinistic nature. You probably had the A at least in part out of that anger and frustration. That was one thing your H could not control.

 

I was lonely. I liked the attention and the perceived intimacy I felt with my AP.

 

 

 

 

Right. That interaction with your affair partner clearly reflects the lack of intimacy is not just your H's issue, it's your issue as well.

 

Correct -- BOTH of us.

 

You left your h, you were effectively done with the marriage, you had an attractive sexual partner, who was willing on some level to make a commitment to you...the brass ring on the merry go round...and you couldn't grab it.

 

In my mind I was done with my marriage at the time. I obviously was not really done with the marriage. People act rashly at times. Myself included.

 

I'm sure at the beginning of many relationships -- affairs included -- people think everything's wonderful. The brass ring wasn't as appealing after a while for all sorts of reasons. As many will point out, affairs don't generally turn out to be long term relationships when they are started on a foundation of lies and deception. The affair fog -- or what have you.

 

 

 

 

"Other people" are not one's spouse. The level of emotional and physical intimacy is in no way comparable, even with other very close relatives.

 

True, but I definitely feel closer to some of my close relatives than I do my husband.

 

 

 

 

I think you are being WAY too passive with this whole thing. It's almost as if you want your h to make the final decision to end the M. Or alternatively to make it better and reconcile.

 

He can't do that now. It's all in your hands. You can never hope to reconcile unless you fully and truthfully confess the affair because you will always have a huge secret from your h unless you do. And spouses can't keep such huge secrets from one another and reach any reasonable level of real intimacy with each other. Your guilt and remorse over the affair prevents you from even having sex with him, according to you. You're finally showing some insight or at least better expressing the insight than previously in this thread. Your affair secret is now what is keeping you from achieving any intimacy with your h. Therefore if you really want to save the marriage and try to become intimate you have to remove the secret from your relationship.

 

I don't agree it's all in my hands. We both are at fault for the state of our marriage. Hell, this is something little -- but he didn't even want to tell my son and I where he kept the spare key to the house when we both lived here too. I'm not saying that's the same as an affair before anyone thinks I'm making a comparison. I'm just saying years of things led up to where our marriage is right now -- not just my affair.

 

It is some guilt that makes me not want to have sex with my husband. It's also the part many of the things that were problems in the marriage are still not rectified. Heaven forbid I say this out loud -- but it's even because I still miss my AP. There's all sorts of stuff going on and I imagine over time each will be worked through.

 

That is what EVERYONE who has been advocating confession to your h has been trying to tell you. Tell the truth, tell it all. Your m will either recover or it will end. But if you don't tell, you will have an m in name only, but not a real m.

 

That's where we disagree. I don't think confession is absolutely necessary. Some people do. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. Sometimes I think I may tell, other times I think Hell no.

 

 

So it is driving you crazy that your h is being controlling by not being controlling? He didn't stop you from moving out. He didn't even ask you why you moved out. He didn't even accuse you of having an affair.

 

He did nothing at all to cause all this, nothing at all, don't you see that samantha? Don't you realize that all this "stuff"--the lack of intimacy, the separation, the affair, the end of the affair relationship, even though you had a ready willing and able affair partner who apparently loved you and wanted to mutually commit--it's all coming from inside of you?

 

The lack of intimacy that you perceive as coming from your h is simply a reflection of your own lack of the ability to be intimate, don't you see that?

 

No it is not. A relationship is two people -- so he does not get to play the "I did nothing" card unless he wants to play it from the perspective he actually did not ask those things. We both have done things that aren't healthy for intimacy/communication in our relationship. I chose to have the affair -- yes. We both have made bad choices as far as our marriage is concerned. He doesn't get the "It's all her fault card."

 

 

 

 

You cannot control what he does, you can only control your own actions. I am simply advocating that if YOU think a lack of communication is the issue in your marriage, or an issue, then you do that. Communicate. Tell him about the affair.

 

I'd rather communicate with him about the sexual problems, lack of intimacy, etc.

 

 

 

That's what I've been saying. I choose to keep it. If he asks, I may reveal it.

[Disintegration]

Are you male? Married? Just curious because they say a man has a much more difficult time with the physical aspects (sex) of the betrayal whereas women are more bothered by an emotional connection. This of course is in general and not in all cases.

 

In any event, I imagine a revenge affair is very possible and would be a concern. It's a lot for a BS to have to work through. I imagine there are a lot of trust issues in a marriage where an affair has been discovered. It may be, however, the need for a revenge affair does not exist. If the affair was extremely distasteful to the betrayed spouse they may try to work on the marriage and if it doesn't ever feel the same to them -- they leave -- then find someone else. Or it just works out for the couple and they stay together.

 

 

I'm a married female, but I must have the feelings a male would get if he was betrayed. Actually the thoughts of physical AND emotional would bother me. More so the physical because the act of intimacy is highly important to me, and I don't take that lightly at all. Some might say it's just sex but in order to do that you have to be intimate as one, if you catch my drift.

[Samantha0905]

I'm a married female, but I must have the feelings a male would get if he was betrayed. Actually the thoughts of physical AND emotional would bother me. More so the physical because the act of intimacy is highly important to me, and I don't take that lightly at all. Some might say it's just sex but in order to do that you have to be intimate as one, if you catch my drift.

 

I've had sex with no intimacy. It happens. But I think of intimacy as a special closeness, communication, friendship, making love, etc.

 

I can see where an affair would bother any BS greatly. It's a hurtful thing to do to someone.

[silverfish]

Yes I've heard of that. However it's not applicable here. Neither samantha nor silverfish stated that they had to leave their relationships for their "own sanity." As a matter of fact samantha has returned to her marriage. And silverfish now indicates that reconciliation is not something she would entirely rule out.

 

Its not something that either my ex or I would rule out

 

 

[/b

 

There are a lot of assumptions but as they are based on how I wrote about my situation, I can't blame you for misunderstanding me. I wanted to get out of the situation that I was in. We were fighting a lot in the end, and it got quite nasty on his part, we have 2 children. We also had a business together, and it was 24/7. One of us had to do something for our own sanity, and that was me. I can live with the consequences of that, however much it hurt at the time.

 

I did say, as you can see, that one of us had to do something 'for our own sanity'. You're working yourself up into a frenzy and making judgmental and rude comments over what exactly?

[silverfish]

I don't think it's that uncommon here either.

 

I'm sorry for your intimacy issues and I hope, if it's for the best, the two of you will be able to discuss things.

 

Life is a journey and sometimes we learn the hard way as we go alone. We certainly are not perfect and make bad choices. We also make choices others think are bad, but turn out to be good for us in the long run.

 

I'm glad you and your husband are talking more and if it works out you reconcile, I hope you are happy.

 

Thanks for that...I think that IC is the way to go for me at least. I don't know if it will work out in the end but I won't shy away from attmepting to deal with it, and hopefully if he decides to, neither will he

[zwieback.toast]

I've stated having an affair was wrong and I gave in to the temptation.

 

This was not a drunken one-time fling at the office Christmas party Samantha. You "gave in" to nothing. You thought you were done with your marriage and you wanted this affair. You got the apartment, you had the sex, repeatedly, and you fully enjoyed it.

 

You did exactly what you wanted to do. You know that.

 

 

 

I was lonely. I liked the attention and the perceived intimacy I felt with my AP.

And you are still lonely. The affair solved nothing for you. That's because the loneliness comes from within yourself, not from the outside. You have to fix what's wrong inside of you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my mind I was done with my marriage at the time. I obviously was not really done with the marriage.

Maybe you just changed your mind.

 

 

 

People act rashly at times. Myself included.

Your affair was not at all "rash." It was deliberate and intentional. It was a love affair that continued until you/your affair partner decided it needed to end. What's rash about any of that?

 

 

I'm sure at the beginning of many relationships -- affairs included -- people think everything's wonderful. The brass ring wasn't as appealing after a while for all sorts of reasons. As many will point out, affairs don't generally turn out to be long term relationships when they are started on a foundation of lies and deception. The affair fog -- or what have you.

The grass isn't always greener. In fact it almost never is. Because you carried all your personal baggage with you from your marriage into your affair. Your sense of loneliness...your lack of an ability to be emotionally intimate...and everything else about you.

 

 

 

 

 

True, but I definitely feel closer to some of my close relatives than I do my husband.

 

 

It sounds like you've never placed your husband "first" in your life. He's second not only to your affair partner, but to multiple close relatives. Just how far down on the priority scale of your emotional life have you shoved your husband, anyway?

 

Tell me something--did you ever really want to marry this guy, or was it just a means to escape from your rather large family of origin?

 

 

 

I don't agree it's all in my hands. We both are at fault for the state of our marriage.

That may have been true prior to your affair but no longer. The affair is all on you.

 

Hell, this is something little -- but he didn't even want to tell my son and I where he kept the spare key to the house when we both lived here too. I'm not saying that's the same as an affair before anyone thinks I'm making a comparison. I'm just saying years of things led up to where our marriage is right now -- not just my affair.

LOL. Of course you made a comparison. More cognitive dissonance. You wanted an affair but you knew it was wrong. You wanted to end your marriage but you didn't want to end it. You don't want to make a comparison but you make the comparison. You want intimacy in your marriage but continue to keep secrets from your husband.

 

 

 

It is some guilt that makes me not want to have sex with my husband. It's also the part many of the things that were problems in the marriage are still not rectified. Heaven forbid I say this out loud -- but it's even because I still miss my AP. There's all sorts of stuff going on and I imagine over time each will be worked through.

You refuse sex to punish your husband. It is punitive. You will not let him "have" you. You are still extremely angry at him. Refusing to have sex is an extremely passive aggressive characteristic that many married women who are angry for some reason at their spouses share with you.

 

 

That's where we disagree. I don't think confession is absolutely necessary. Some people do. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. Sometimes I think I may tell, other times I think Hell no.

 

 

You want intimacy without actually being intimate. More cognitive dissonance.

 

 

No it is not. A relationship is two people -- so he does not get to play the "I did nothing" card unless he wants to play it from the perspective he actually did not ask those things. We both have done things that aren't healthy for intimacy/communication in our relationship. I chose to have the affair -- yes. We both have made bad choices as far as our marriage is concerned. He doesn't get the "It's all her fault card."

 

 

You unilaterally ended the relationship last June by moving out. You thought the grass was greener so you had an affair. The grass wasn't greener. You are very angry that your expectations of "single life" weren't as you had fantasized. You found out that your unhappiness, your lonliness, your lack of intimacy wasn't something attributable to your marital relationship. It's something that's coming out of you.

 

You know what? You had already left your h. Just because your affair ended doesn't mean you had to move back. You could have just gotten divorced. You could have moved on to some more suitable new partner, or stayed by yourself ("for your own sanity" as claimed by confusedinkansas).

 

No you made the CHOICE to leave; the CHOICE to have the affair; and the CHOICE to come back to your marriage.

 

Going forward, the success or failure of your marriage is 100% on you.

Edited February 4, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[zwieback.toast]

Yes I've heard of that. However it's not applicable here. Neither samantha nor silverfish stated that they had to leave their relationships for their "own sanity." As a matter of fact samantha has returned to her marriage. And silverfish now indicates that reconciliation is not something she would entirely rule out.

 

Its not something that either my ex or I would rule out

 

 

 

 

I did say, as you can see, that one of us had to do something 'for our own sanity'. You're working yourself up into a frenzy and making judgmental and rude comments over what exactly?

 

 

LOL. What "rude and judgmental" comment are you imaging was made? You left your relationship, you were done with it, your ex cheated on you, you cheated back, but now you've seen the grass isn't greener, and you say you're contemplating reconciliation.

 

If you left your relationship for your own sanity, why would you now, after years, be contemplating going back to it?

 

Aren't you currently in a new relationship with a new boyfriend? How can you be contemplating reconciling with your ex when you are in a new relationship?

 

That doesn't even make any sense to me.

Edited February 4, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[Samantha0905]

Going forward, the success or failure of your marriage is 100% on you.

 

It's on both of us.

 

I most certainly did give into temptation.

 

I'll agree there is an unhappiness inside of me. That's why I want to see a counselor.

 

I love my husband very much. Intimacy between us is up to both of us. Period.

[zwieback.toast]

It's on both of us.

 

If you want your husband to share that responsibility, then it's your obligation to share the knowledge of your affair with him. Otherwise--it's 100% on you. He can't be responsible for fixing a problem that he doesn't know exists.

 

 

I most certainly did give into temptation.

 

Actually if you were being fully honest you would admit that you pursued your affair partner aggressively and seduced him. You're not some young innocent kid, are you? After all you even got the apartment where the two of you had your trysts. You were the temptation that your affair partner gave into.

 

In fact if it hadn't been this particular stud you would have found someone else to have an affair with. You were looking to have an affair. So you had one. You wanted to experience good sex for once in your life. It didn't really matter who with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll agree there is an unhappiness inside of me. That's why I want to see a counselor.

 

You've been back since Thanksgiving but not seen a counselor yet. I don't think you'll ever go see a counselor, or if you do, you'll give it up quickly, because I really don't think you're going to want to listen to what a counselor is going to be telling you.

 

 

 

I love my husband very much. Intimacy between us is up to both of us. Period.

 

 

Right. But you have important information that he doesn't. You want him to share the responsibility but with you withholding crucial information.

 

Life doesn't work that way sweetie. You're finding that out and it seems you have to learn everything the hard way.

[Samantha0905]

If you want your husband to share that responsibility, then it's your obligation to share the knowledge of your affair with him. Otherwise--it's 100% on you. He can't be responsible for fixing a problem that he doesn't know exists.

 

 

 

 

Actually if you were being fully honest you would admit that you pursued your affair partner aggressively and seduced him. You're not some young innocent kid, are you? After all you even got the apartment where the two of you had your trysts. You were the temptation that your affair partner gave into.

 

Well in all honesty -- we both flirted, but he initiated the flirting. He wasn't innocent either -- in fact, even though he was younger, he certainly had a lot more worldly experience than I did. Not to throw him under the wheels of the bus, however, as I'm sure together we would both say we both pursued each other.

 

In fact if it hadn't been this particular stud you would have found someone else to have an affair with. You were looking to have an affair. So you had one. You wanted to experience good sex for once in your life. It didn't really matter who with.

Now -- that may have actually happened eventually. I definitely felt I was missing out on something to not have enjoyed sex for so long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've been back since Thanksgiving but not seen a counselor yet. I don't think you'll ever go see a counselor, or if you do, you'll give it up quickly, because I really don't think you're going to want to listen to what a counselor is going to be telling you.

On the contrary. In fact, thank you for your posts. I'm sure it's been quite a few posts from others also, but your posts and the way I've been feeling lately have finally compelled me to action. I made the appointment just five minutes ago. I am beyond open to listen to what the counselor has to say about what's going on with me. I appreciate your opinions, but you have to admit -- on the internet it's rather impersonal and difficult to know who to listen to or what their true intent happens to be. That's why I find it interesting when someone reads intent out of some posts with such conviction. We can't really know the heart or intent of someone we don't know. For that matter, it's difficult to know what's going on when we do know people at times. The fact people have affairs is proof of that.

 

 

 

Right. But you have important information that he doesn't. You want him to share the responsibility but with you withholding crucial information.

 

Life doesn't work that way sweetie. You're finding that out and it seems you have to learn everything the hard way.

Maybe so. Perhaps the counselor will counsel me in the direction of telling my husband.

 

I'm just thankful I finally made the appointment. I'm not asking for sympathy, but just as a statement of fact -- I have felt like I'm stuck in cement. It's very unlike me. I don't know why in the world I can't take action in regards to something so important to me -- my marriage. Even if the counselor helps me to discover I don't want to be in my marriage any longer, I hope he can help me to understand what has been going on with me that I would betray what I know to be a sacred relationship. I lasted all those years and then made such a horrible choice. I'll just be thankful to get help and I hope it proves to be beneficial to my marriage.

[silverfish]

LOL. What "rude and judgmental" comment are you imaging was made? You left your relationship, you were done with it, your ex cheated on you, you cheated back, but now you've seen the grass isn't greener, and you say you're contemplating reconciliation.

 

What color is your trailer?

 

Its got nothing to do with grass being greener, its about learning from experience and growing up...as I said i don't know what might happen in the future but i have an open mind about it.

 

As for my BF, how about you share some of your life experience with the good people in here before I give you any more 'ammunition'. If you read the thread properly you would know the answer to that one anyway

[silverfish]

 

On the contrary. In fact, thank you for your posts. I'm sure it's been quite a few posts from others also, but your posts and the way I've been feeling lately have finally compelled me to action. I made the appointment just five minutes ago. I am beyond open to listen to what the counselor has to say about what's going on with me. I appreciate your opinions, but you have to admit -- on the internet it's rather impersonal and difficult to know who to listen to or what their true intent happens to be. That's why I find it interesting when someone reads intent out of some posts with such conviction. We can't really know the heart or intent of someone we don't know. For that matter, it's difficult to know what's going on when we do know people at times. The fact people have affairs is proof of that.

 

Maybe so. Perhaps the counselor will counsel me in the direction of telling my husband.

 

I'm just thankful I finally made the appointment. I'm not asking for sympathy, but just as a statement of fact -- I have felt like I'm stuck in cement. It's very unlike me. I don't know why in the world I can't take action in regards to something so important to me -- my marriage. Even if the counselor helps me to discover I don't want to be in my marriage any longer, I hope he can help me to understand what has been going on with me that I would betray what I know to be a sacred relationship. I lasted all those years and then made such a horrible choice. I'll just be thankful to get help and I hope it proves to be beneficial to my marriage.

 

Good for you, and I hope you keep posting because I would be interested to know how it goes for you..

[Samantha0905]

[/b]

 

Good for you, and I hope you keep posting because I would be interested to know how it goes for you..

 

I will. Thank you.

[zwieback.toast]

 

 

 

Its got nothing to do with grass being greener, its about learning from experience and growing up...as I said i don't know what might happen in the future but i have an open mind about it.

 

Maybe we can try to think things through a little better before we make poor choices so as to avoid having to learn everything from experience. Actions have consequences. Oftentimes the consequences are unanticipated and not within our control. A lot of times choices once made can never be undone, esp. with respect to relationship issues.

 

That's what I've learned from my experience. How about yourself? What have you learned?

 

 

As for my BF, how about you share some of your life experience with the good people in here before I give you any more 'ammunition'. If you read the thread properly you would know the answer to that one anyway

 

Well this thread really isn't about your situation but if you want to talk about it why not provide a little more details.

 

There's no need for me to put my "life experience" in this thread, this thread is not about me. If I feel like asking for advice for myself I'll start my own thread, thanks. If I do that you're welcome to comment along with anyone else who wants to.

Edited February 4, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[silverfish]

Maybe we can try to think things through a little better before we make poor choices so as to avoid having to learn everything from experience. Actions have consequences. Oftentimes the consequences are unanticipated and not within our control. A lot of times choices once made can never be undone, esp. with respect to relationship issues.

 

That's what I've learned from my experience. How about yourself? What have you learned?

 

Personally speaking, if I had thought things through any more than I did / have done, I think I, and anyone who knows me would seriously doubt my sanity. I am not someone who makes rash decisions, and as I said before, I left my H prepared to face the consequences of that action. I have to say though, despite the fact it hasn't been easy, I am largely happy with the way things have gone, and I stand by my decision as the right thing to do.

 

As I said before, things were very difficult, there was a lot of anger, and it got scary towards the end. I had no idea what was going to happen next, but I knew it wasn't going to be good.

 

I've learnt that you can only be responsible for your own happiness ultimately, and hopefully once you've got to that point, you can have a healthy relationship (or not).

 

You keep repeating that I cheated on my ex, when I have said many times now, that I met my BF after I left, and after my ex had met someone else. We were both single, and still are for now.

[zwieback.toast]

Personally speaking, if I had thought things through any more than I did / have done, I think I, and anyone who knows me would seriously doubt my sanity.

 

This is pretty vague. You aren't saying why you specifically felt you had to leave. In any case if things were that bad why even consider reconciling at all?

 

 

I am not someone who makes rash decisions, and as I said before, I left my H prepared to face the consequences of that action. I have to say though, despite the fact it hasn't been easy, I am largely happy with the way things have gone, and I stand by my decision as the right thing to do.

 

Do you realize that this statement completely conflicts with something you said earlier in the thread about leaving open the possibility of reconciling with your ex? If you are happy with your decision to leave your ex, if failing to leave your ex H would have led people to question your sanity; why are you considering a reconciliation?

 

As I said before, things were very difficult, there was a lot of anger, and it got scary towards the end. I had no idea what was going to happen next, but I knew it wasn't going to be good.

 

Meaning what, exactly? You aren't saying what was actually going on. Maybe you've discussed it in some other thread but you really can't expect people to look back through your entire posting history everytime you post. Did he beat you or abuse you or something? Again if it was that bad why even consider reconciliation?

 

 

 

I've learnt that you can only be responsible for your own happiness ultimately, and hopefully once you've got to that point, you can have a healthy relationship (or not).

 

If you are happy where you are right now why even consider reconciliation with someone who was apparently very bad for you? Why repeat the original mistake?

 

This is what I thought we were talking about when we say "learning from experience." You want to recycle through the same angst again? Revisit the same bad relationship again? Why?

 

 

 

You keep repeating that I cheated on my ex, when I have said many times now, that I met my BF after I left, and after my ex had met someone else. We were both single, and still are for now.

 

OK let's clarify. You injected your situation into this thread when you stated in a prior post (1) you wanted "out" of your marriage and left your H; (2) your H's friends falsely accused you of having an affair; (3) this caused your H to drink excessively and have an affair; (4) apparently you had a revenge affair.

 

You were resentful of your H's friends for falsely accusing you of your affair before you had it, and you specifically said that you thought that it had harmed your chances for reconciliation because the false accusations by your H's friends against you is what motivated him to have his affair.

 

Now you're saying you were both single when you met your respective girlfriend/boyfriend. "We were both single." So your H did nothing wrong by having a new relationship after you left the marriage. Because he was single. So whether or not his friends falsely accused you or not, what difference WHY your H had sex with another woman? He was single. No harm, no foul.

[silverfish]

Do you realize that this statement completely conflicts with something you said earlier in the thread about leaving open the possibility of reconciling with your ex? If you are happy with your decision to leave your ex, if failing to leave your ex H would have led people to question your sanity; why are you considering a reconciliation?

 

 

At the time (2 yrs ago) it was the right thing to do. As I said I stand by that and am happy to deal with the consequences. Things have changed since we split up. A lot of the external issues that caused so much conflict have gone now. Not to go into too much detail but there were huge outside pressures on the relationship due to a family illness, and our business. Things have changed, its been 2 years, and we are not the same people we were at the time

 

Meaning what, exactly? You aren't saying what was actually going on. Maybe you've discussed it in some other thread but you really can't expect people to look back through your entire posting history everytime you post. Did he beat you or abuse you or something? Again if it was that bad why even consider reconciliation?

 

I said in this thread actually. I don't need to give the gory details. As you said, its not my thread. I was actually posting on here to try and get some views from men as to how they would deal with their W saying that she was unhappy with their sex life, the way they communicate, and intimacy generally. This is still the area that I would have to deal with before any reconciliation with my ex. Its a common problem on here but not many men respond, its mostly women discussing it amongst themselves which is interesting but not always helpful.

 

OK let's clarify. You injected your situation into this thread when you stated in a prior post (1) you wanted "out" of your marriage and left your H; (2) your H's friends falsely accused you of having an affair; (3) this caused your H to drink excessively and have an affair; (4) apparently you had a revenge affair.

 

TBH this is in the past as far as I am concerned now, although it was hurtful at the time we were both very emotional so no, it didnt make much sense with hindsight. As I said, I moved out, I hoped it would change things for the better immediately, because prior to that it was futile on my part to try and work things out. That was naive, of me but I took into consideration before I moved out that he might meet someone else.

 

If you are happy where you are right now why even consider reconciliation with someone who was apparently very bad for you? Why repeat the original mistake?

 

I have no intention of repeating the original mistake, but there wasn't really an original 'mistake'. We were together for 15 years, and we had 2 really awful years that came on top of having young children and a business to run together. It was an accumilation of a lot of things. Its easy to see now what went wrong, but at the time he blamed me, I blamed him...you know, its not really an unusual story, and plenty of couples go through it.

He did behave badly, before I left and just after,and although I've had nothing but respect from him over the last year, I have no idea if that would continue if we did get back together. He has had some counselling and that has made a huge difference in how he talks about things with me. I do know right now is that I can't be with anyone else, because I still love him.

 

Hope that helps

[zwieback.toast]

 

 

At the time (2 yrs ago) it was the right thing to do. As I said I stand by that and am happy to deal with the consequences. Things have changed since we split up. A lot of the external issues that caused so much conflict have gone now. Not to go into too much detail but there were huge outside pressures on the relationship due to a family illness, and our business. Things have changed, its been 2 years, and we are not the same people we were at the time

 

Well I'm glad things have improved for you.

 

 

I said in this thread actually. I don't need to give the gory details. As you said, its not my thread. I was actually posting on here to try and get some views from men as to how they would deal with their W saying that she was unhappy with their sex life, the way they communicate, and intimacy generally. This is still the area that I would have to deal with before any reconciliation with my ex. Its a common problem on here but not many men respond, its mostly women discussing it amongst themselves which is interesting but not always helpful.

 

Well I would be happy to respond and give you a man's point of view but "sex life/way they communicate/intimacy generally" is a pretty broad area to cover. Did you have anything specific that's bothering you in these areas?

 

 

 

TBH this is in the past as far as I am concerned now, although it was hurtful at the time we were both very emotional so no, it didnt make much sense with hindsight. As I said, I moved out, I hoped it would change things for the better immediately, because prior to that it was futile on my part to try and work things out. That was naive, of me but I took into consideration before I moved out that he might meet someone else.

 

Well from my understanding with very rare exceptions a woman only moves out when she is completely "done" with the marriage.

 

(You may know a lot of contrary examples which I think you've mentioned, but evidently they're not the same situations as you're in.)

 

Just because, once a woman's moved on, and out, the outside doesn't look quite as good as she thought it might be, doesn't provide a real reason for going back to the former marriage. Some things just can't be undone.

 

 

 

 

I have no intention of repeating the original mistake, but there wasn't really an original 'mistake'. We were together for 15 years, and we had 2 really awful years that came on top of having young children and a business to run together. It was an accumilation of a lot of things. Its easy to see now what went wrong, but at the time he blamed me, I blamed him...you know, its not really an unusual story, and plenty of couples go through it.

 

Well OK if you can see what the problems were which led to the split, why not just get back together again?

 

 

He did behave badly, before I left and just after,and although I've had nothing but respect from him over the last year, I have no idea if that would continue if we did get back together. He has had some counselling and that has made a huge difference in how he talks about things with me. I do know right now is that I can't be with anyone else, because I still love him.

 

 

Just because you love someone doesn't mean you can live with that person. It sounds like you still don't trust your ex.

 

Holding onto this failed relationship is just going to keep you from moving on. You don't want to wake up in another 15 years and find you've wasted them.

[silverfish]

Well I would be happy to respond and give you a man's point of view but "sex life/way they communicate/intimacy generally" is a pretty broad area to cover. Did you have anything specific that's bothering you in these areas?

 

I'll pass on that one I think. Its been dificult enough trying to explain my fairly straightforward situation on here, that I can't envisage making much progress in here with anything more complicated. I had the same problem with my H actually, the endless Spanish Inquisition, repeating myself over and over, until I just couldn't be bothered to talk about it any more, the endless Jerry Springer style accusations. No offence to you but coming in here has made me realise that a lot of men have a problem listening and not just my ex.

 

Well from my understanding with very rare exceptions a woman only moves out when she is completely "done" with the marriage.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree there then because I'd say IME about 25-30% end up reconciling, and fairly successfully from what I can see

 

Well OK if you can see what the problems were which led to the split, why not just get back together again?

 

Because the underlying communication issues are still there. I couldn't go back to having no intimacy and a bad sex life, I'd rather be on my own. Its not impossible to sort out though, people do. It would have to happen this time though

 

Holding onto this failed relationship is just going to keep you from moving on. You don't want to wake up in another 15 years and find you've wasted them.

 

I didn't waste 15 yrs. I'm not holding onto it because theres nothing there at the moment. I find that exciting though, and I think he does too, because it means we could make it whatever we want it to be. I it isnt going to work out, I think that will be apparent to both of us fairly swiftly into that conversation about intimacy and so on. I was asking beore how I go about broaching that with him... I know he's thought about a lot of the things I said...he's had 2 yrs:)

[Samantha0905]

I didn't waste 15 yrs. I'm not holding onto it because theres nothing there at the moment. I find that exciting though, and I think he does too, because it means we could make it whatever we want it to be. I it isnt going to work out, I think that will be apparent to both of us fairly swiftly into that conversation about intimacy and so on. I was asking beore how I go about broaching that with him... I know he's thought about a lot of the things I said...he's had 2 yrs:)

 

I don't know if you've said, but have you talked to a counselor? Perhaps they could help you decide how to talk to your husband about the sexual issues. If they do, tell me. (just teasing!)

[silverfish]

I don't know if you've said, but have you talked to a counselor? Perhaps they could help you decide how to talk to your husband about the sexual issues. If they do, tell me. (just teasing!)

 

Yes, that would be specifically why I would go I think. I had a great sex life with my BF, so I know it can be done! I cant exactly bring that up with my ex though...ever. I know exactly what you meant about morphing the two together - its the two elements of a relationship I think.

 

I think if I were to discuss it with him, I would prefer it to be done in an MC type environment. I'll keep you posted!

[Samantha0905]

Yes, that would be specifically why I would go I think. I had a great sex life with my BF, so I know it can be done! I cant exactly bring that up with my ex though...ever. I know exactly what you meant about morphing the two together - its the two elements of a relationship I think.

 

I think if I were to discuss it with him, I would prefer it to be done in an MC type environment. I'll keep you posted!

 

Thanks. I'm glad you got what I meant. I really wasn't trying to be glib -- it's just my AP filled the voids that are present in my marriage.

 

I will keep you posted also. Perhaps that is the best way to discuss the issue with your husband. It may be what's best in my situation also.

[zwieback.toast]

Well I would be happy to respond and give you a man's point of view but "sex life/way they communicate/intimacy generally" is a pretty broad area to cover. Did you have anything specific that's bothering you in these areas?

 

I'll pass on that one I think. Its been dificult enough trying to explain my fairly straightforward situation on here, that I can't envisage making much progress in here with anything more complicated. I had the same problem with my H actually, the endless Spanish Inquisition, repeating myself over and over, until I just couldn't be bothered to talk about it any more, the endless Jerry Springer style accusations. No offence to you but coming in here has made me realise that a lot of men have a problem listening and not just my ex.

 

No one can force you to articulate your concerns if you don't want to. You brought them up in this thread, so I assumed they were relevant to follow up on. If you don't want to, that's fine. But, as far as your saying you "had the same problem with [your] H", well, then that's got to be on you, since I'm not your H. You can generalize about "men" all you want, and you may even be right, but if you want to be with a man, then you have to learn to communicate with them--not blame them.

 

Well from my understanding with very rare exceptions a woman only moves out when she is completely "done" with the marriage.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree there then because I'd say IME about 25-30% end up reconciling, and fairly successfully from what I can see

I wouldn't say 25-30% are very good odds. But the real question is: What do those that successfully reconcile have in common?

 

 

Well OK if you can see what the problems were which led to the split, why not just get back together again?

 

Because the underlying communication issues are still there.

Well, yes, your ex is still a man. And according to you, men in general don't really communicate that well. I don't really see how you're going to change the fact that your ex is a man.

 

I couldn't go back to having no intimacy and a bad sex life, I'd rather be on my own. Its not impossible to sort out though, people do. It would have to happen this time though

How do you improve your intimacy and your sex life unless you get back together though? I guess it's like a chicken/egg situation, no?

 

Holding onto this failed relationship is just going to keep you from moving on. You don't want to wake up in another 15 years and find you've wasted them.

 

I didn't waste 15 yrs.

Did I say that? No, I didn't. What I said is you don't want to waste the next 15 years.

 

You really need to take a good hard look at yourself in terms of the source of your communications difficulties. First, you refused to elaborate on your issues, when you opened up that subject for discussion in the thread. Your reason? "Men" are so bad at "listening." You have the same problem with me that you had with your H. (Do you realize that by saying that you are just incorrectly generalizing about all men?) Now, you're inferring something that I never suggested, and when it's in writing too.

 

 

 

 

I'm not holding onto it because there's nothing there at the moment. I find that exciting though, and I think he does too, because it means we could make it whatever we want it to be.

This kind of thinking strikes me as unrealistic. You might be able to improve things to the point where you can reconcile; but you can't make it "whatever we want it to be." You might be raising your expectations unrealistically if you think this, and if so, you will end up disappointed.

 

 

If it isnt going to work out, I think that will be apparent to both of us fairly swiftly into that conversation about intimacy and so on. I was asking before how I go about broaching that with him... I know he's thought about a lot of the things I said...he's had 2 yrs:)

How do you broach it? You sit down and talk to him. And if you have a disagreement, or an argument, you don't shut down and tell him: "I can't do this anymore. You men just can't understand anything." Edited February 4, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[zwieback.toast]

Yes, that would be specifically why I would go I think. I had a great sex life with my BF, so I know it can be done! I cant exactly bring that up with my ex though...ever.

 

Then you will not very likely be able to reconcile. How are you going to explain to your ex what you like, and how you know that you like it, without being honest about the sexual experiences you had while with your BF?

 

You want "intimacy" without actually being intimate. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way. You want to skip over the "hard parts." You just want your ex to be able to "understand" how to please you better without giving him detailed instructions of what you like.

 

How is he supposed to know the kinds of things you did with your BF, that pleased you so much, unless you tell him?

 

This is NOT a situation in which you are keeping a secret from your ex. He obviously knows you had a BF, he obviously knows you had sex with your BF. Those eggs have been broken and the omlette can't be unscrambled.

 

IMO, it would be very unfair to keep your sex with your BF in you mind as the "standard" against which you are judging your ex and not even give him a fair chance to try to live up to that standard. And to boot, to blame your ex for his poor listening skills, as a man. He can't listen to what you're unwilling to tell him.

 

 

 

I know exactly what you meant about morphing the two together - its the two elements of a relationship I think.

 

I think if I were to discuss it with him, I would prefer it to be done in an MC type environment. I'll keep you posted!

 

It's interesting that both you silverfish and samantha have this same notion of people as being collections of characteristics that in theory you should be able to take bits and pieces of and interchange and recombine them to suit yourselves. This is a "dis-integrated" view of what a human being is.

 

Human beings are individuals, they are unique, they are not just collections of characteristics who exist for your pleasure or benefit. They are not Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head dolls.

 

The question in both cases is not "why" your partner, or your ex, doesn't have such and such combination of characteristics that is most pleasing to you. The question you both need to answer is why you both seem to perceive your partner/ex partner primarily as someone, or something, that exists to provide you with benefits, rather than recognizing that they are fully individual human beings who have a worth and a value far beyond the personal gratification you can perhaps obtain from them.

 

This kind of attitude is rather depressing actually. Suppose you did teach your partner/ex partner intimacy, however you define that (although I don't think either of you understand what it is); sexual techniques to please you; and you got back together.

 

Then let's say your partner had an illness or an accident and maybe couldn't please you sexually in a fully satisfactory manner.

 

Into the dustbin with him?