Wife not remorseful about affair...

[zwieback.toast]

 

You said that both me & Samantha were 'cheating sluts' that is hateful & we are both women.....care to address this ? Until you do, it will be impossible for me to engage with you.

 

You also chose to ignore my post to Woggle about 'cooking a nice dinner' want to explain why anything positive said by me gets ignored?

 

1. I don't think I actually called either of you that. I notice you didn't actually quote whatever post you think I said that. Next time you want to attribute a statement to me, why don't you do me the courtesy of using the "quote" function when you post? That's what it's for.

 

However you originally stated that your ex's friends accused you of cheating and that eventually became a "self fulfilling prophecy." (Your words.) Since then you've backtracked on that, neither you nor your ex cheated. (By the way were you actually divorced when you had a sexual relationship with another man? )

 

As for Samantha...well let's let her conduct, statements, and attitude speak for itself.

 

2. I did respond to your post to woggle. When are you going to cook that dinner and what's on the menu?

[zwieback.toast]

If this REALLY is the case (& I don't know your story) - What are you doing here?

 

Like yourself, I am here to participate in an internet discussion forum seeking an open and vigorous exchange of ideas and viewpoints.

 

 

 

Why & How is it that you are the expert on infidelity....

 

Having never committed infidelity, I am no expert in it, nor have I ever claimed to be. I wouldn't know the first thing about how to successfully go about cheating on my wife. But if I do want some expert advice on cheating, I will be sure to ask you.

 

 

 

Telling vs. not telling........intimacy issues after affairs.........

How is it that you are here TELLING (& bashing) everyone who is posting HOW & WHAT they felt in their relationships - When - Accouding to this post - You have never been in any of these situations?????

 

All I'm doing is stating my opinions. Why are so offended by that? This thread was started by a man who was grievously harmed by his partner's cheating on him. He needs all the support he can get. I think it's ludicrous for a number of women who have committed infidelity themselves--including yourself-- to come flying into this thread and try to interfere with and derail that.

 

You're very good with the generic critcism, however, I don't see where you've actually posted anything specific that I've actually said and then presented some kind of alternative point of view for discussion. All you're doing is attacking me.

 

You have your own opinions about infidelity, and that's fine. If you would care to state them, we can discuss them civilly. If not, that's fine, too. I acknowledge that you are far more of an infidelity expert than I could ever hope to be. Instead of attacking me, why not share your expertise?

 

 

 

It just seems interesting to me that you seem to have all the answers, with zero experience.

 

Are you telling me I have to cheat on my spouse to be able to participate in this thread?

 

I don't think she'd approve.

[zwieback.toast]

I will admit I have issue with women because I see too many women who take no accountability whatsoever for their situations. If calling me a chauvinist or a misogynist helps a woman to avoid accountability then so be it. I really do try to give good women a chance though.

 

The only woman's opinion who should matter to you is your wife's.

 

Sounds like she likes you well enough, though.

[Woggle]

When your husband said he doesn't like you anymore was it after a long period of you throwing your contempt and resentment in his face? That doesn't exactly inspire romantic feelings in men.

[zwieback.toast]

When your husband said he doesn't like you anymore was it after a long period of you throwing your contempt and resentment in his face? That doesn't exactly inspire romantic feelings in men.

 

 

Well woggle--let me ask you something--you've read silverfish's posts or at least some of them on this thread; do they strike you as having been written by a reasonable, mature, flexible, compassionate, person, who would make a compatible, loving spouse/partner to the average, sane, hard working man?

 

Also, I think an important indicator of one's character is the people one associates with and supports. Why is silverfish on this thread in the first place? To provide support for the original poster, a man who is the victim of an unfaithful partner? No, she's here to support unfaithful women, even though silverfish indicates she doesn't consider herself to have been an unfaithful spouse.

 

If I want to be a truthful, honest, compassionate person, then how can I be that way, yet provide support for others who are not truthful, dishonest, and lack compassion?

 

It's just so obvious yet they don't see.

[silverfish]

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

 

There. I don't understand why I have to point out your own words to you bet I'll play along....

 

Well woggle--let me ask you something--you've read silverfish's posts or at least some of them on this thread; do they strike you as having been written by a reasonable, mature, flexible, compassionate, person, who would make a compatible, loving spouse/partner to the average, sane, hard working man?

 

Also, I think an important indicator of one's character is the people one associates with and supports. Why is silverfish on this thread in the first place? To provide support for the original poster, a man who is the victim of an unfaithful partner? No, she's here to support unfaithful women, even though silverfish indicates she doesn't consider herself to have been an unfaithful spouse.

 

If I want to be a truthful, honest, compassionate person, then how can I be that way, yet provide support for others who are not truthful, dishonest, and lack compassion?

 

It's just so obvious yet they don't see.

 

Just for the record. If you check my previous posts on another thread...if you can be bothered, I ALREADY discussed my opinion on Samantha not telling her H a week or so ago. Care to read that? Or are you just going to pick & choose what you WANT to hear again. I told samantha what I thought. Doesn't mean I can't respect her honesty about her situation in here.

 

When your husband said he doesn't like you anymore was it after a long period of you throwing your contempt and resentment in his face? That doesn't exactly inspire romantic feelings in men.

 

Woggle, I think we both treated eachother with contempt and resentment at that time. My ex was drunk when he said those words to me, and he was drinking a lot at the time I left and afterwards...its quite hard to discuss these things with someone who isn't sober.

 

We were both working 60-70 hours a week with 2 small children, consistently, for a period of about 3-4 years leading up to the split, so neither of us had time for eachother. BTW it wasn't just me he didn't like at the time, it was friends, family, employees, our kids at the time. He really was impossible to live with and caused quite a lot of trouble for me and others.

 

The last 6 months have been different. He stopped drinking, he spends more time with our children, he talks more. He apologised for his behaviour whe he was drinking. He hasn't however, addressed the underlying issues as to why he behaved like this yet.

[confusedinkansas]

Actually if you were being fully honest you would admit that you pursued your affair partner aggressively and seduced him. You're not some young innocent kid, are you? After all you even got the apartment where the two of you had your trysts. You were the temptation that your affair partner gave into.

 

In fact if it hadn't been this particular stud you would have found someone else to have an affair with. You were looking to have an affair. So you had one. You wanted to experience good sex for once in your life. It didn't really matter who with.

 

 

This isn't TELLING someone how they are.............Hmmmm! how do you know this? How do you know that if it hadn't been for that one man, she may not have had an affair in the first place. Things do fall into place for a reason (such as my affair - wouldn't have had it had it not been for that particular man, at that particular time, with all of the things in common that we had - I'll guess - Samantha? Was yours the same?)

 

 

If you assume I'm an expert in the infidelity field - You would be wrong. I'm no expert. But I do have experiences to add to this - I don't post on threads I know nothing about & pretend that I am the all knowing one. (such as yourself)

Anyway - Looks like we have a new bully in town people! Watch out! And a bully, no less that has no idea of what he speaks.

 

Zbacktoast.......what is your problem exactly? Because there is one - otherwise no "normal, "TYPICAL" man just happens upon a website such as this to just talk trash. Come on - fess up - What's your hook here?

Edited February 5, 2010 by confusedinkansas

[zwieback.toast]

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

 

There. I don't understand why I have to point out your own words to you bet I'll play along....

 

Let's. You stated that I called you and samantha "cheating sluts." I did not. I stated that if your ex had some slut he should apologize to you, and if you, or samantha, acted the same way, you should apologize to your respective spouses. Neither you nor apparently samantha consider your conduct worthy of apology. That's fine. But please stop putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

 

Or am I mistaken? Did you admit that you cheated on your husband somewhere in this thread?

 

Do you even know what a conditional statement is? "If...then"? Did you admit to being a "cheating slut" somewhere? I thought you denied it. Right? Then the above statement doesn't even apply to you, because it's a conditional statement.

 

And the whole point of the above statement was in response to samantha's challenge statement that "oooohhh why don't you ask the husband to apologize"? Well if the husband cheated, he should apologize. If the wife cheated, she should apologize. That's what the above conditional statement means.

 

Now, we KNOW samantha cheated. Right? So she should definitely apologize for that. IMO. She doesn't want to. That's fine, it's her trainwreck.

 

 

 

 

 

Just for the record. If you check my previous posts on another thread...if you can be bothered, I ALREADY discussed my opinion on Samantha not telling her H a week or so ago. Care to read that? Or are you just going to pick & choose what you WANT to hear again. I told samantha what I thought. Doesn't mean I can't respect her honesty about her situation in here.

Wow, you are just full of cognitive dissonance today. Samantha's "honesty about her situation in here"? "Honesty"??? You have got to be kidding.

 

Samantha's not honest, she's dishonest. Why haven't you figured that out yet? She's been lying to her husband since at least last June.

 

What psychic gratification are you deriving from continuing to support her dishonesty?

 

But...fair enough. You can support someone who's dishonest if you please. That's your right. But dishonesty doesn't become honesty just because you want to believe it is.

 

 

 

When your husband said he doesn't like you anymore was it after a long period of you throwing your contempt and resentment in his face? That doesn't exactly inspire romantic feelings in men.

 

Woggle, I think we both treated each other with contempt and resentment at that time. My ex was drunk when he said those words to me, and he was drinking a lot at the time I left and afterwards...its quite hard to discuss these things with someone who isn't sober.

 

We were both working 60-70 hours a week with 2 small children, consistently, for a period of about 3-4 years leading up to the split, so neither of us had time for eachother. BTW it wasn't just me he didn't like at the time, it was friends, family, employees, our kids at the time. He really was impossible to live with and caused quite a lot of trouble for me and others.

 

The last 6 months have been different. He stopped drinking, he spends more time with our children, he talks more. He apologised for his behaviour whe he was drinking. He hasn't however, addressed the underlying issues as to why he behaved like this yet.

You see, your husband apologized. But I guess you still don't get it yet. Edited February 5, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[zwieback.toast]

This isn't TELLING someone how they are.............Hmmmm! how do you know this?

 

A much more interesting question is why are you responding to a post directed at someone else? I know as much or as little about their situation as you do. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

As far as samantha's having pursued her affair partner, she's admitted that she did (actually she said it was mutual). Obviously it takes "two to tango." But why are you surprised that she pursued a desirable affair partner? She didn't say it was some sort of drunken mistake in a bar one night. Quite the opposite. This was a guy I think she met at her gym or something; they had many interactions. Then they actually started dating more or less, going out listening to bands, drinking beer. Then they started kissing. Then she left her husband and got an apartment. And at that point they consummated their affair. And continued it.

 

The reason I know she pursued her affair partner is because she's admitted it. That's how I know.

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know that if it hadn't been for that one man, she may not have had an affair in the first place.

She's admitted that had it not been for this particular guy she most likely would have ended up having an affair anyway, because she was sexually unsatisfied. If she wanted to have satisfying sex, she had to find someone other than her husband. If not this guy, then someone else. That's obvious, isn't it?

 

There was nothing magical about her affair partner, quite the contrary, he was just another stud, and they've split up. If this particular guy was her "soul mate" she wouldn't have split up with him when he was asking for a deeper commitment. At the very least she would have allowed the affair to continue. Samantha wanted a fling, that's all. She got it.

 

 

Things do fall into place for a reason (such as my affair - wouldn't have had it had it not been for that particular man, at that particular time, with all of the things in common that we had - I'll guess - Samantha? Was yours the same?)

Well I guess we could discuss your situation if you would like. You can believe that you wouldn't have had an affair were it not for finding one particular person to have it with. But that's not how affairs generally happen. How come that "one particular person", that "soul mate," always seems to be the next door neighbor; or the spouse's best friend; or the soccer coach? Or the boss at work? I.e., the most important factor in choosing an affair partner is simple AVAILABILITY. So no I don't really believe your affair partner was particuarly "special." But I don't know your situation.

 

I mean how come your "soul mate" wasn't someone who lived in China or Tibet or something? Simple--you can't have an affair with someone ten thousand miles away. It's too inconvenient.

 

How did you choose your affair partner confused? Think about it. It just someone who happened to be relatively attractive (to you) who was an available to have an affair with you. How many other guys did you flirt with before having an affair with that guy? How many other guys did you date or try to date before having an affair with that guy?

 

 

If you assume I'm an expert in the infidelity field - You would be wrong. I'm no expert. But I do have experiences to add to this - I don't post on threads I know nothing about & pretend that I am the all knowing one. (such as yourself)

LOL when did I "pretend that I am the all knowing one"? All I can say is I think I have a pretty good b.s. detector. If that makes me an "expert" on this stuff, fine.

 

 

Anyway - Looks like we have a new bully in town people! Watch out! And a bully, no less that has no idea of what he speaks.

You cheatin' gals love calling names, don't you. Does it make you feel better? "Chauvinist" "women hater" "snake in the grass" "bully" LOL. Call me what you will--you're still a cheater. You're still either unfaithful to your own partner, or helping someone else cheat on their partner, or perhaps both. (Like I said I don't know what your particular issues are.) Which means inherently you are also dishonest.

 

One thing I am not is dishonest. I may be wrong about things, I may have opinions you disagree with, but I don't deliberately lie to people and I don't help other people to deliberately lie to their significant others, for my own pleasure. You, on the other hand, do all of these things.

 

And the reason YOU are here is not to solve your problems, but rather, to get validation for dysfunctional behavior. That's fine, there are plenty of people here willing to give it to you and accept it from you to validate their similar dysfunctional behavior. Except I'm not one of those people, and apparently that irritates you. Well you need to lighten up.

 

 

Zbacktoast.......what is your problem exactly? Because there is one - otherwise no "normal, "TYPICAL" man just happens upon a website such as this to just talk trash. Come on - fess up - What's your hook here?

I am faithful to my wife, to you, that's a serious "problem." To me, it's not. We just look at the world a little differently. Edited February 5, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[Samantha0905]

This isn't TELLING someone how they are.............Hmmmm! how do you know this? How do you know that if it hadn't been for that one man, she may not have had an affair in the first place. Things do fall into place for a reason (such as my affair - wouldn't have had it had it not been for that particular man, at that particular time, with all of the things in common that we had - I'll guess - Samantha? Was yours the same?)

 

 

 

I do agree -- life events and timing of meeting someone in particular do have to come together in a particular way for an affair to occur. I was in a particularly bad time and I met someone which I felt a strong attraction to and with whom I had a very good connection.

 

I don't feel attracted to many men.

 

When I was told earlier by he who shall not be named if it had not been for this AP, it would have been another -- I responded with it could possibly be the case or something like that. I'm not a reader of the future. I don't generally think it's a good idea to speculate about something that may or may not happen in the future. There's no way to know until the future plays out.

 

And obviously it is telling someone how they are -- someone he does not know at all really. There are all sorts of crazy assumptions being made, but I'm pretty sure he's going to read into each post whatever he wants to think. I'm imagine his posts are written by an unreasonable, immature, inflexible, incompassionate person, who would make a highly incompatible and insecure partner to the above average, well-balanced, dynamic woman.

[confusedinkansas]

IThere are all sorts of crazy assumptions being made, .

 

You said it sista!

[zwieback.toast]

I do agree -- life events and timing of meeting someone in particular do have to come together in a particular way for an affair to occur. I was in a particularly bad time and I met someone which I felt a strong attraction to and with whom I had a very good connection.

 

LOL, samantha, he was just an attractive guy you met at your gym. He was there. He was available. So how did that "cause" you to have an affair if you weren't looking to have one? What was special about this particular affair partner that made him so different from any one of about ten thousand other guys?

 

About the only thing you've said about your affair partner is that he was very good in bed. But other than that, what made him that "special" guy?

 

I don't feel attracted to many men.

 

Well there's a lot of men out there. And how many do you need at one time, anyway?

 

 

 

When I was told earlier by he who shall not be named if it had not been for this AP, it would have been another -- I responded with it could possibly be the case or something like that.

 

Usually when women have affairs it's not an instantaneous decision. It's something they've been contemplating for a long, long time.

 

Be truthful now--I'll bet before you had your actual affair that you've admitted to with this gym guy, you'd been thinking about what it would be like to have sex with another man for quite a while. Maybe it took you a while to get your courage up, and for the right set of circumstances to come into play, but it's kind of hard to believe that until you met this particular guy, you never had any prior thoughts of cheating on your husband.

 

 

 

I'm not a reader of the future. I don't generally think it's a good idea to speculate about something that may or may not happen in the future. There's no way to know until the future plays out.

 

On the contrary samantha you strike me as the type of person who thinks out everything carefully in advance and is very good at anticipating the future and planning. That's because you like things to happen "your way" and you do your best to ensure that occurs. You don't sound like someone who leaves much if anything to chance occurrence. You strike me as very calculating.

 

An impulsive person wouldn't have planned and carried out their affair so carefully as you did. You wanted to be sure that you didn't get caught. So far your plan has worked perfectly.

 

 

 

 

And obviously it is telling someone how they are -- someone he does not know at all really.

 

On the contrary, samantha, you have provided much material describing yourself, how you think, and how you behave. I haven't tried to "tell you how you are." I have merely observed what you have stated.

 

The problem is that you have come to a betrayed husband's thread and attempted to justify infidelity. You are an unfaithful spouse. You are a dishonest spouse. You attempt to rationalize and seek validation from similarly-situated other unfaithful, dishonest spouses for your conduct.

 

Without question, the reason that you are concealing your infidelity from your spouse is because your intention is to extract the maximal financial settlement from your spouse when you do ultimately get divorced. You do not love your spouse, and you have no sexual attraction to him. You do not respect him and you continue to lie to and deceive him.

 

There is absolutely no reason for you to stay married to your husband, other than to position yourself to maximum advantage financially. You left the marriage emotionally and physically last June and entitled yourself to conduct an affair. You carried on with your affair partner in public places, and at that time anyway, could not care less if you were seen. You even stated that other people you know saw you with your affair partner in public on occasion.

 

You stated that you started to become nervous about the affair for some reason and your affair partner, a younger and apparently somewhat irresponsible man, was pressuring you for a commitment.

 

I believe it was at that time that you looked around at your little love nest and it occurred to you: "Wait a minute. I don't want to live in this little hole. I want to live in my nice big house. I don't want to be perceived in my community, by my family, by my children, as the cougar who cheated on her husband and wrecked her marriage. And I sure as heck don't want to support this gigolo."

 

And so you methodically disengaged from your affair partner, and returned to your marital home.

 

And you are no doubt contemplating the most efficient way of getting your husband out of it, allowing yourself to remain in it.

 

It's inevitable. It's part of your "script." The unfaithful wives' script.

 

There are all sorts of crazy assumptions being made, but I'm pretty sure he's going to read into each post whatever he wants to think. I'm imagine his posts are written by an unreasonable, immature, inflexible, incompassionate person, who would make a highly incompatible and insecure partner to the above average, well-balanced, dynamic woman.

 

Well I don't know about that; I do admit I'm highly incompatible with spider women, though.

[silverfish]

Let's. You stated that I called you and samantha "cheating sluts." I did not. I stated that if your ex had some slut he should apologize to you, and if you, or samantha, acted the same way, you should apologize to your respective spouses. Neither you nor apparently samantha consider your conduct worthy of apology. That's fine. But please stop putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

 

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

 

Which part of that last sentence does not insult me, you said I should apologise to my ex for 'being that slut'. You said it, your words.

 

Or am I mistaken? Did you admit that you cheated on your husband somewhere in this thread?

 

No I didn't, because I didn't cheat on him...for the enth time

 

Do you even know what a conditional statement is? "If...then"? Did you admit to being a "cheating slut" somewhere? I thought you denied it. Right? Then the above statement doesn't even apply to you, because it's a conditional statement.

 

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

 

See above, the second part was not a conditional statement, it was a statement, as you said below.....

 

And the whole point of the above statement

 

 

Wow, you are just full of cognitive dissonance today. Samantha's "honesty about her situation in here"? "Honesty"??? You have got to be kidding.

 

Samantha's not honest, she's dishonest. Why haven't you figured that out yet? She's been lying to her husband since at least last June.

 

What psychic gratification are you deriving from continuing to support her dishonesty?

 

But...fair enough. You can support someone who's dishonest if you please. That's your right. But dishonesty doesn't become honesty just because you want to believe it is.

 

Same again, I said 'honesty about her situation in here' as in on LS. I never said I approved of her not telling her H, in fact I already said elsewhere what I think, in a thread called 'Impossible Situation' on the OW forum - got that?

 

I try not to judge people, and I am interested in learning from other peoples experiences in the hope they may help my own. Why are you in here?

 

You see, your husband apologized. But I guess you still don't get it yet.

 

Yep, I got that he was sorry for the way he treated me at the time, and his behaviour which was so appalling it led to me leaving him.

Why do you still doubt that I am telling the truth about this?Its elsewhere on these forums as well if you'd care to look, but again, you pick & choose what you want to see

[zwieback.toast]

Which part of that last sentence does not insult me, you said I should apologise to my ex for 'being that slut'. You said it, your words.

 

LOL. You keep changing things around. You accused me of calling you a "cheating slut." I didn't. Then you brought up this other quote, which wasn't even directed to you--it was directed to samantha, in response to her question as to whether or not a cheating husband should apologize. I'll repeat: cheaters should apologize. If you say you didn't cheat, that's fine, you don't have to apologize for something you didn't do--but that's NOT what you originally said. You ORIGINALLY said that you were wrongly accused of cheating by your ex-h's friends, but that it became a "self fulfilling prophecy." Your words, silver. It was only after you got chastised for cheating that you then stated neither you nor your ex cheated on the other.

 

Anyway, you didn't answer the question: When you had sex with another man six months after you left your ex h, were you legally divorced, or still legally married? If you were still legally married--and especially if, as you originally claimed, you were still seeking reconciliation (the failure of which you blamed on your ex h's false accusations, and on his indiscretion)--IMO you did in fact cheat.

 

 

No I didn't, because I didn't cheat on him...for the enth time

 

Were you still married when you had sex with a man other than your husband? Why did you say that your ex's friends' accusation against you as a cheater was a "self fulfilling prophecy" if you didn't cheat?

 

Same again, I said 'honesty about her situation in here' as in on LS. I never said I approved of her not telling her H, in fact I already said elsewhere what I think, in a thread called 'Impossible Situation' on the OW forum - got that?

 

 

O.K. so what you are saying is that she was being honest about her dishonesty to her husband, and you approve of that. (I didn't read any thread on the OW forum, if you want to provide a quote that's relevant, fine, provide it. I'll be happy to read it.) So you applaud her telling the truth to strangers on the internet, but not to her spouse.

 

This is illogical, do you realize how bizarre this reasoning is?

 

 

Why not just tell her: "Samantha, you should be ashamed of yourself for lying to your spouse." If that's what you believe? Why defend her at all in this thread? I didn't see anywhere in this thread where you were at all critical of samantha for deceiving her spouse, or for cheating on her spouse. But maybe I missed that? Care to point out where in this thread you told samantha she shouldn't lie to her husband?

 

I try not to judge people, and I am interested in learning from other peoples experiences in the hope they may help my own. Why are you in here?

 

Fine. If that's true, you need to stop "judging" me simply because I think advocating for infidelity in a thread posted by a man whose spouse is unfaithful to him, is not appropriate. You can go on the OW forum and I guess applaud infidelity, lying, or whatever else you want to do, all you want.

 

Why am I here? Is there some rule requiring me to discuss my personal issues with you? Why would I do that? I can help you quite a lot if you would simply pay attention, but the only way you can help me is by giving me some insight into the thought process of a person who has been in an unhappy marriage. You have certainly been doing that, so I thank you. IOW I am trying to learn what not to do and what to beware of.

 

And you know something else? I'll bet "in real life" you have exactly the kind of quarrels with people who disagree with you about stuff that you're having with me, and that you apparently have had with your ex.

 

You want everything the way you want it to be. Including my opinion. But my opinion is mine, it's not yours. You just can't tolerate disagreement.

 

 

 

Yep, I got that he was sorry for the way he treated me at the time, and his behaviour which was so appalling it led to me leaving him.

Why do you still doubt that I am telling the truth about this?Its elsewhere on these forums as well if you'd care to look, but again, you pick & choose what you want to see

 

 

 

 

You spent numerous posts back and forth with me taking perhaps my less than perfect wording of a quickly posted phrase, as a personal attack or insult directed at you, which it was clearly not.

 

You COMPLETELY IGNORED the point I was trying to make, which was not to gratuitously insult you or anyone, but to emphasize the importance of sincere apology in the reconciliation and forgiveness process. THAT was the POINT I was trying to make--not that someone was a "slut" but that people must apologize when they wrong someone else. You completely ignored it because you are not interested in communicating with other people, which requires trying to listen to them in context. You are like a porcupine with your quills sticking out all the time.

 

The point about your ex H apologizing (albeit not for cheating, which you say he did not do) was that he APOLOGIZED to you, or tried to. THAT WAS EXACTLY MY POINT. And I didn't see where you apologized to him, although maybe you did.

 

I'm not sure that you even realize how distorted your view of reality is, silver, so I wouldn't necessarily say you are deliberately avoiding the truth, or telling untruths. But your lens is just so so distorted that your view of the world is completely warped.

 

That's why you could actually think that complementing samantha for her "honesty" on LS, WHILE SHE IS LYING TO THE PERSON WHO SHE REALLY NEEDS TO BE HONEST WITH, HER BETRAYED HUSBAND, is anything but completely insane.

[silverfish]

LOL. You keep changing things around. You accused me of calling you a "cheating slut." I didn't. Then you brought up this other quote, which wasn't even directed to you--it was directed to samantha, in response to her question as to whether or not a cheating husband should apologize. I'll repeat: cheaters should apologize. If you say you didn't cheat, that's fine, you don't have to apologize for something you didn't do--but that's NOT what you originally said. You ORIGINALLY said that you were wrongly accused of cheating by your ex-h's friends, but that it became a "self fulfilling prophecy." Your words, silver. It was only after you got chastised for cheating that you then stated neither you nor your ex cheated on the other.

 

What I said was *sighs* that after I left, I hoped that at some point, we might get to MC together and sort out our differences. I hoped that my H would stop drinking and behaving in an abusive manner towards the people that loved him, and wake up to the fact that if it didn't stop he would lose me.....I should point out we promised eachother that we would be faithful to eachother while we worked out what we were going to do long term

 

After 3 months (after I moved out) drinking, taking drugs, getting into fights, causing problems at work and so on, punctuated by his drunken 'friends' telling him to get laid because thats what I would be doing, he did. I found out, because his 'friends' told me, and was devastated. At that point I could see that there was no point in waiting around for the big realisation on his part. He showed no remorse, and no interest in reconciliation.

 

When I met my BF (6 months after I moved out) I had no qualms whatsoever about starting a new relationship, and did so. So, one action led to another, to another.

 

Why am I here? Is there some rule requiring me to discuss my personal issues with you? Why would I do that? I can help you quite a lot if you would simply pay attention, but the only way you can help me is by giving me some insight into the thought process of a person who has been in an unhappy marriage. You have certainly been doing that, so I thank you. IOW I am trying to learn what not to do and what to beware of.

 

I have given you insight into my thought processes, and also information on how I dealt with it. No need to thank me, or patronise me by trying to imply you are somehow a better person. I wouldn't take advice from someone who insults me anyway, which you did.

 

I'm not sure that you even realize how distorted your view of reality is, silver, so I wouldn't necessarily say you are deliberately avoiding the truth, or telling untruths. But your lens is just so so distorted that your view of the world is completely warped.

 

I would say the same to you, but I wouldn't presume to be so rude as to judge you or patronise you by professing to 'know' who you are, despite the fact that what YOU have said is very insightful into your personality and the way your mind works. If you ask me, I'll tell you

[confusedinkansas]

I'm pretty sure he's going to read into each post whatever he wants to think. .

 

 

LOL, samantha, he was just an attractive guy you met at your gym. He was there. He was available. So how did that "cause" you to have an affair if you weren't looking to have one? What was special about this particular affair partner that made him so different from any one of about ten thousand other guys?

 

About the only thing you've said about your affair partner is that he was very good in bed. But other than that, what made him that "special" guy?

 

Wow........did you call it or what! :lmao: ....And another right on post if I do say so myself.

Here he is again - reading into everything.

[confusedinkansas]

Usually when women have affairs it's not an instantaneous decision. It's something they've been contemplating for a long, long time.

 

That is 100% incorrect.

 

Women do not contemplate having affairs. (Men might - but I know women do not) We don't sit & plan & ponder over other men & then make our move. It doesn't happen that way. So........since you aren't privvy to knowing this information. Don't post that of which you know nothing of.

[zwieback.toast]

That is 100% incorrect.

 

Women do not contemplate having affairs. (Men might - but I know women do not) We don't sit & plan & ponder over other men & then make our move. It doesn't happen that way. So........since you aren't privvy to knowing this information. Don't post that of which you know nothing of.

 

 

Wow hit a raw nerve there.

[zwieback.toast]

 

 

 

 

Wow........did you call it or what! :lmao: ....And another right on post if I do say so myself.

Here he is again - reading into everything.

 

She'll have to answer those very same questions when she start IC.

 

She'll learn that she did make voluntary choices and is responsible for them. She must own them.

 

As must you own your choices.

 

As must we all.

 

And that actions have consequences.

 

Cause and effect.

[Samantha0905]

 

 

 

 

Wow........did you call it or what! :lmao: ....And another right on post if I do say so myself.

Here he is again - reading into everything.

 

Indeed! Perhaps he's missed his calling? Fiction literature!

 

That is 100% incorrect.

 

Women do not contemplate having affairs. (Men might - but I know women do not) We don't sit & plan & ponder over other men & then make our move. It doesn't happen that way. So........since you aren't privvy to knowing this information. Don't post that of which you know nothing of.

 

Yes, you're correct. I know it certainly wasn't something I contemplated and then moved on my mark. We were more just friends first and things kind of went from there as we talked more and got to know each other's situations. We met in February and the physical affair started in June. I certainly didn't head out on a mission with the intent to have an affair. In fact, I rarely feel attracted to most men. It kind of hit me by surprise that I did feel such a strong attraction. I think the friendship and casual flirtations built up over time.

 

I did choose to see him once I moved into my apartment. I had no idea, at the time, it would continue for a while. As time went on after the affair started, choosing to see him became more and more difficult for me.

 

It's strange though. I'm sorry for choosing to be unfaithful, and for the damage it's done to my marriage, but I'm not sorry I met my AP and I certainly can't say I'm sorry I enjoyed the love making so much.

 

My feelings about that may change over time. Right now, it's where I'm at.

[anne1707]

That is 100% incorrect.

 

Women do not contemplate having affairs. (Men might - but I know women do not) We don't sit & plan & ponder over other men & then make our move. It doesn't happen that way. So........since you aren't privvy to knowing this information. Don't post that of which you know nothing of.

 

I would have to disagree with this. I have seen several threads on LS where a woman is considering having an affair - even without a specific OM in mind.

[zwieback.toast]

 

What I said was *sighs* that after I left, I hoped that at some point, we might get to MC together and sort out our differences.

 

What you originally said, at least in this thread, was that you left your ex h because you "wanted out" of the marriage. You didn't say you needed some breathing space, some time to think, some time for the two of you to get counseling. You "wanted out." Now, that might not be what you meant to say, but it is what you said. You didn't say you asked for a trial separation or a temporary separation. You "wanted out."

 

 

I hoped that my H would stop drinking and behaving in an abusive manner towards the people that loved him, and wake up to the fact that if it didn't stop he would lose me.....

 

OK now you are claiming your ex h was abusive. Maybe he was. But you're also confusing the time sequence. At the time you left because you "wanted out," he already had lost you. You were "out." You didn't leave to give him a "wake up call." You left because you "wanted out."

 

I should point out we promised each other that we would be faithful to each other while we worked out what we were going to do long term

 

You've carefully avoided clarifying whether you were still married as of the times when your ex H and then you got involved with other people. Also, you didn't originally state that when you left your ex, it was a trial separation. That may be what you told your ex H when you left. But what you said, originally, in this thread, was that you left because you "wanted out of the marriage."

 

After 3 months (after I moved out) drinking, taking drugs, getting into fights, causing problems at work and so on, punctuated by his drunken 'friends' telling him to get laid because that's what I would be doing, he did.

 

Right. You left, "moved out." But also elsewhere in this thread, you claimed that neither you nor your ex cheated on the other because you were both "single" at the time you each got involved with other people.

 

But right here, you're now saying that in actuality, you had an arrangement with your ex that it was actually something of a trial separation and that you were not supposed to see other people. Again this is just another inconsistency. Either he's allowed to see other people, so it's not cheating; or he isnt, and it is cheating. Here you seem to be saying that you had an arrangement that your ex was not supposed to see other people during this separation period, but his friends egged him on to it (which is what you originally had been saying, but then backed off of). That means your ex H did cheat on you, because he wasn't supposed to see other people during the separation.

 

I found out, because his 'friends' told me, and was devastated. At that point I could see that there was no point in waiting around for the big realisation on his part. He showed no remorse, and no interest in reconciliation.

 

O.K. if you were devastated, then why do you disagree that he cheated on you? You were separated, but still married, right? You were supposed to be trying to reconcile, right? Of course, I think what's really going on is you're engaging in re-writing history a little bit, every time you talk about this it comes out differently. Y

 

You want to have it both ways. You "want out" of the marriage as long as you thought things were going to work out for you. They didn't, so in retrospect, your ex H "cheated" on you. Even though you left him, he didn't leave you. I'm not really clear on what you're trying to say, other then it's pretty obvious that in your mind your ex H takes the lion's share of the blame for the break up of your M. That much is clear.

 

 

When I met my BF (6 months after I moved out) I had no qualms whatsoever about starting a new relationship, and did so. So, one action led to another, to another.

 

Well, if what your ex H did was cheating, because he did it during a trial separation when he was not supposed to, then it was cheating. And that's what you said at first in this thread, but backtracked because in that case, what you did would also be considered cheating, i.e., a revenge affair, especially if you candidly admit as you are, that one thing led to another led to another. But since you didn't want to be considered a "cheater," you just wanted to pin that label on your ex H, you backtracked and then said you were both "single" when you saw others. But NOW, you're back to saying or implying or inferring that your ex H did cheat on you. (Unless of course you were divorced within 6 months which you don't say you were.)

 

Now there's another way of looking at the facts you've provided: You left your ex because you were fed up with him and wanted out. You had no intention of reconciling with him because he was abusive. You thought you could do better and if he was abusive who's to say you were wrong to think that? You may or may not have had someone new lined up or in mind; you certainly must have been thinking about "possibilities."

 

What you did NOT expect to happen was for your ex to "beat you to the punch" by getting a girlfriend before you had a chance to establish a new relationship yourself. But it did happen. And you retaliated by getting your own boyfriend a few months later. But your new relationship did not work out.

 

Since that happened I guess about two years ago, neither of you have started IC and apparently while you did MC five years ago neither of you have gotten back into MC. You say very clearly your ex has no interest in IC and that you refuse to go to IC unless he goes to it as well.

 

So you are stuck. That is the bottom line.

 

You made a mistake by walking out, if by doing so, you thought you were gaining leverage over your ex H to improve your M somehow. Your decision did not result in an improvement in your M, you decision to leave made it worse because it gave your ex the freedom, with the encouragement of his friends, to start a new relationship. And in reaction to that you also started your own new relationship.

 

As you have stated, one action led to another action to another action...but the "trigger" was your decision to leave. That was your decision. Not your ex H's. If he was abusive, then it was the right decision. Had your leaving had the effect of causing your ex to reform his ways, then it would have been an effective decision.

 

However the reason I don't think it worked is because I don't really think either you or your ex saw your leaving as an avenue towards reconciliation, at least not at the time you left. That's just you re-writing history. Just because things didn't work out the way you wanted doesn't mean the decision to leave was itself a mistake, maybe you had to.

 

You have to face the fact that now your ex is an ex. You cannot force him to do counseling, you cannot force him to change his behavior with you, you cannot force him to want to remarry you. It sounds like you are friendly enough with him at this point so that you can effectively raise your children together. Just because you can be friendly and civil together does NOT mean you could or should remarry, however.

 

The problem you are facing now is: "What the heck do I do now?" Your new relationship flamed out I guess, and you've got nothing on the horizon, so now you're holding onto the past. This is extremely unhealthy.

 

Nothing you have stated indicates that you and your ex have any reason to get back together nor should get together. You still put the blame on your ex for your marital troubles and he is not doing what you want him to do.

 

The reason you should go to IC whether your ex does or does not go (and actually he might go in a little while if he sees it helping you and you stop trying to shove it down his throat) is to help you decide how you are going to resolve this. You cannot remain in limbo in this relationship forever.

 

You separated with what you now say is the intention to try to reconcile. That was a disaster as you both had affairs with other people. Then you divorced. The divorce was the end of your marriage. Period. It's over. Stick a fork in it.

 

 

 

 

 

I have given you insight into my thought processes, and also information on how I dealt with it. No need to thank me, or patronise me by trying to imply you are somehow a better person. I wouldn't take advice from someone who insults me anyway, which you did.

 

I didn't patronize you at all, I respected you by telling you my unsweetened opinion which you clearly don't want to digest. That's true respect. If I lacked respect for you I would feed you some nonsense and "yes" you to death and tell you how you're on the right track and so forth. If I didn't respect you I wouldn't bother.

 

 

 

 

I would say the same to you, but I wouldn't presume to be so rude as to judge you or patronise you by professing to 'know' who you are, despite the fact that what YOU have said is very insightful into your personality and the way your mind works. If you ask me, I'll tell you

 

 

You are free to judge me as much as you want. I have a clear conscience and if you believe I need judging, then please tell me what precisely I have said that is incorrect. I don't mind criticism at all. But the problem here is that I am not the one in a dysfunctional relationship. You are. If I was in a dysfunctional relationship, I would be more than happy to listen to what ANYONE had to say about it, because what do I have to lose?

[Hop_prophet]

It's strange though. I'm sorry for choosing to be unfaithful, and for the damage it's done to my marriage, but I'm not sorry I met my AP and I certainly can't say I'm sorry I enjoyed the love making so much.

 

It is unfortunate that this thread has turned into a venting session for OW who choose to validate their actions and pat each other on the back. It is painfully obvious what is going on and the above comment makes it pretty clear. Samantha, I very much doubt you have any remorse for what you have done. Maybe you should tell it to your husband in exactly those words so he can see with crystal clarity what he is dealing with. Several of these posters would console and come to the defense of the cheating spouse no matter what the circumstances.

 

Hopefully therapy will help you realize the immense damage you have done. Telling your husband sure will as you will see firsthand the pain he will go through. But really you haven't seen anything yet since you continue to hide it. I really hope the OP has more sense then to listen to this rubbish considering the sources. Keep lying to yourselves. You have all said at one point or another that you do not agree with having affairs or that they are a huge "mistake" but your actions show you feel justified. You don't admit to that and then just brush it under the rug. You take responsibility for it and start to rectify it.

[zwieback.toast]

It is unfortunate that this thread has turned into a venting session for OW who choose to validate their actions and pat each other on the back.

 

Yes. It's kind of like going to an AA meeting where all the members are telling their stories and congratulating each other for being drunks.

[silverfish]

What you originally said, at least in this thread, was that you left your ex h because you "wanted out" of the marriage. You didn't say you needed some breathing space, some time to think, some time for the two of you to get counseling. You "wanted out." Now, that might not be what you meant to say, but it is what you said. You didn't say you asked for a trial separation or a temporary separation. You "wanted out."

 

Ok, maybe the americanisms on this sight have infiltrated my brain a little. I don't think that 'wanted out' was maybe the right phrase to use. If I could rephrase it, I would have said that I needed to remove myself from a volatile situation, in order to calm it down. If it calmed down, I was then prepared to go to MC with my H.

 

Its not just about who did what to who, there was a lot of other stuff going on at the time as well, with the business, with his family. This all played a much bigger part than I have probably explained but that's because you have relentlessly latched onto the sex drama.

 

Since that happened I guess about two years ago, neither of you have started IC and apparently while you did MC five years ago neither of you have gotten back into MC. You say very clearly your ex has no interest in IC and that you refuse to go to IC unless he goes to it as well.

 

I haven't refused to go to IC at all. I know I live on my own, but the cats not really up to deep conversation, and I haven't resorted to talking to myself yet. I've been mulling it over to myself for a while, without acting on it, because I don't have much money or time. You made a mistake by walking out, if by doing so, you thought you were gaining leverage over your ex H to improve your M somehow. Your decision did not result in an improvement in your M, you decision to leave made it worse because it gave your ex the freedom, with the encouragement of his friends, to start a new relationship. And in reaction to that you also started your own new relationship.

 

I agree with this apart from the last sentence. Still though, it was the right decision, because at the time I would define him as 'abusive'. He was abusive for a period of 18 months, not throughout our whole relationship. I didn't start a new relationship for 'revenge' I started it because I believed the relationship was over.

 

However the reason I don't think it worked is because I don't really think either you or your ex saw your leaving as an avenue towards reconciliation, at least not at the time you left. That's just you re-writing history. Just because things didn't work out the way you wanted doesn't mean the decision to leave was itself a mistake, maybe you had to.

 

Well I think I saw it was an way towards reconciliation, and he obviously didn't, although he didn't say that at the time.

 

You cannot force him to do counseling, you cannot force him to change his behavior with you, Just because you can be friendly and civil together does NOT mean you could or should remarry, however.

The problem you are facing now is: "What the heck do I do now?" Your new relationship flamed out I guess, and you've got nothing on the horizon, so now you're holding onto the past. This is extremely unhealthy.

 

I can't force him to anything, and I have no desire to try, quite the opposite, but if he's showing interest in reconciling with me, which he is, then I am allowed to discuss the things that might lead to that, whether its MC, IC, whatever.

 

Nothing you have stated indicates that you and your ex have any reason to get back together nor should get together. You still put the blame on your ex for your marital troubles and he is not doing what you want him to do.

 

There are good reasons for us to get back together. My ex has stopped drinking, he talks openly to me about what happened in the past, we spend a lot of time together because we want to and we respect eachother. There is also a lot of attraction there, which is not something I want to act on until I know I'm doing the right thing.

If we can get to point where we could talk about the intimacy issues, which, like Samantha and her H, is not something he finds easy to talk about.

 

The reason you should go to IC whether your ex does or does not go (and actually he might go in a little while if he sees it helping you and you stop trying to shove it down his throat) is to help you decide how you are going to resolve this. You cannot remain in limbo in this relationship forever.

 

I don't shove it down his throat (you need to work on your own communication issues BTW), but i agree that this is one of the reasons I should consider going. However, I think I might be able to get there myself by talking to friends, sounding out on here at times, and talking to my ex as well.

 

You separated with what you now say is the intention to try to reconcile. That was a disaster as you both had affairs with other people. Then you divorced. The divorce was the end of your marriage. Period. It's over. Stick a fork in it.

 

You were doing ok there, but I think your writing style is a little 'Jerry Springer' at times. Its taken us all this time, much longer than I naively thought it would. I consider it a possible new beginning myself & to steal a great line, this could be the start of something big

 

I didn't patronize you at all, I respected you by telling you my unsweetened opinion which you clearly don't want to digest. That's true respect. If I lacked respect for you I would feed you some nonsense and "yes" you to death and tell you how you're on the right track and so forth. If I didn't respect you I wouldn't bother.

 

Opinion and advice are very different things. You have made blanket statements on one hand to suit your 'vision' of whatever you think I've done or am doing which IS patronising.

 

For instance, accusing me of being dishonest, when I've been candid with you throughout. Saying things over & over again doesn't make them the truth and your opinion isn't the truth either. I'm telling you this with respect, because I learnt that the hard way. Thats something you need to address yourself

 

You are free to judge me as much as you want. I have a clear conscience and if you believe I need judging, then please tell me what precisely I have said that is incorrect. I don't mind criticism at all. But the problem here is that I am not the one in a dysfunctional relationship. You are. If I was in a dysfunctional relationship, I would be more than happy to listen to what ANYONE had to say about it, because what do I have to lose?

 

LOL, I'm not IN a relationship at all! I'm single.

 

When you're discussing things with people IRL do you berate them like this?

 

As for judging you, I think its a shame that you are so disordered & confusing in the way you communicate at times, because you can give good advice if you try, and you have at times done so.

 

Its delivered with a lack of experience and empathy on your part as to the kind of situations you get on LS such as mine...correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't really know what you're talking about do you, as you say you are happily married yourself