Wife not remorseful about affair...

[zwieback.toast]

More anger about someone relating to God. A relationship with God does not imply perfection. It's funny how people get so angry when other people bring up God. They always want to shout, "Hypocrite!" God knows we're not perfect. He expects more than I've given, but he understands we aren't without sin. If you think of what He did for us, you'll get that.

 

 

Not everyone who talks about God is accused of being a hypocrite.

 

Mainly the hypocrites are.

[zwieback.toast]

The "women" remark again. What are you angry about?

 

Ignore, by the way.

 

LOL. I'm not angry about anything.

 

You, on the other hand, are mad at the world.

[Samantha0905]

I victimize you.

 

You're trying. You show up under the armor of wanting to have a reasonable discussion. But you're definitely a snake in the grass.

 

You came into this thread originally in full "attack mode"

 

That was you -- stealth attack mode -- but attack mode, nonetheless.

 

because you objected to my statement to samantha that it was likely her h's friends told her h she might be cheating after she had moved out. This thread had absolutely nothing to do with your situation. But in the process of trying to attack me for my perfectly reasonable statement, you admitted that your h's friends had done exactly the same thing to you. You were upset about being called a cheater by your h's friends because it wasn't true--yet. You then said you felt that your h was encouraged to cheat by what his friends said about you, then you yourself did the same thing, i.e. cheated, and you called it a "self fulfilling prophecy." Even though you wanted "out" of the marriage and left, you said you were upset because you thought this interfered with reconciliation possibilities.

 

You are just full of your version of "reasonable" explanations, aren't you?

 

Later on in the thread, when I simply reminded you of your own words, you again changed your story and claimed that it wasn't cheating either by your ex H or yourself because at the time, you were both "single." But you failed to explain why, if you were both single, you had any problem with your ex H having a relationship with someone else after you walked out on your marriage, and you were both "single."

 

In other words, you say whatever it is you feel like saying, to suit your purposes,

 

I'm pretty sure, you are describing yourself here.

 

to play the role of the victim, and to avoid responsibility for your own situation.

 

Oh my -- but then, there's YOU (the heavenly choir sings) to point out her wrongdoings.

 

When someone like me (or I guess like your ex has probably tried to do) points out your obvious inconsistencies, you claim you are being attacked and that men don't listen and that we cannot communicate properly blah blah blah.

 

You're actually the one like Charlie Brown's teacher.

 

 

Your husband couldn't have been that bad, he couldn't have been an abuser, or else you wouldn't be talking about reconciliation. (If he was an abuser and you now want to go back to him you IMO are not playing with a full deck sister.) However your words cleverly imply, without saying, that your ex was abusive in some way, but you won't clarify it other than to say he doesn't communicate well.

 

And you wouldn't understand the importance of communication, would you. It's just some minor........

 

 

Every marriage has its problems. If you want the marriage, you stick around to solve them. Again according to you not sticking around was your decision.

 

Nobody understands what someone else goes through. You are not in her situation. You're just sitting on your high horse somewhere, about to be ignored.

 

Then you found out that the grass was not greener on the other side and you want your ex H back and your marriage back, but apparently you simply don't want to admit you made a mistake in leaving him in the first place.

 

She hasn't said that at all! You're smoking the good stuff.

 

You're making pretty vague statements about bad communication/bad intimacy/bad sex but what it all boils down to is it's your ex H's fault.

 

Vague to you -- no duh. She doesn't know you from Adam.

 

Apparently you got into arguments with him which you attribute solely to his inability to communicate. I think it's kind of funny that you have the same kinds of problems with me and I guess a number of other men, based on your generalizations, and don't see that the common factor is yourself.

 

I don't find that "funny" at all. It makes perfect sense. You are on a mission and all you hear is you.

 

I understand you perfectly well because you are a "type." A rather spoiled, married woman who actually has a pretty decent marriage and a pretty decent husband, but for some reason thinks that's not good enough for her, thinks that she can do "better."

 

No, you are a type. It sounds like you've been jilted along the way. Not that you would admit that. Anger issues much?

 

And if you had been able to do "better" you sure wouldn't be talking reconciliation now.

 

Now you're showing your immaturity.

 

The problem you're having is that you don't want to admit that you were wrong to walk out of your marriage.

 

I don't she feels that way from what I've read -- not at all. I don't feel that way about moving into my apartment. You're making assumptions you want to make to go along with the stories you are making up.

 

That you made a mistake. Maybe you have apologized to your ex for walking out on him, but somehow I just can't picture someone with your attitude making an apology like that.

 

Maybe he should apologize to her. Heaven forbid someone suggest that. Ooooooh.

 

I'm sure in reading this you're going to get all offended etc etc because that's the con you're running right now. But it's not my intent to offend, just to "tell it like it is."

 

The con. Who came up with that concept in this thread. You're the one throwing words like that around. Perhaps it's how your mind works. I'm sure you won't let anyone con you again.

 

 

Ahhhh! The chauvinism is really rearing it's ugly head now.

 

 

That's nice, where did I ever say you had to do that? Another example of your inability to read plain English and desire to attribute imaginary statements to someone else.

 

Talk about imaginary assumptions! Perhaps you should write fiction.

 

Bye.

 

 

 

 

You haven't really given any examples of anything that your ex did that would cause a rational person to simply walk out on their spouse. You also want to reconcile with him which means you have been unable to find a suitable replacement. I assume if you're considering going back to him he must be a pretty decent guy. Am I wrong? Is your ex H not a decent guy? You tell me.

 

 

LOL I don't have an ex. I was fortunate enough to marry a good woman. She thinks my listening skills are just dandy by the way.

[zwieback.toast]

And you're not getting it right by the way. You're assuming it was planned out and adding all sorts of your own problems/issues to your interpretation (which we all do probably.) It wasn't. I know people don't want to accept that, but it's not like someone sits around and says I think I'll go find someone with whom I can cheat.

 

But, if my husband were to make the poor choice to cheat -- and he asked God for forgiveness, yes his forgiveness would be between him and God.

 

 

Samantha, I hate to say this, but boy you're heading for one heckuva train wreck.

[zwieback.toast]

You're trying. You show up under the armor of wanting to have a reasonable discussion. But you're definitely a snake in the grass.

 

Samantha, my post wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at Silverfish. Are you two actually "one and the same" i.e. internet sock puppets or something?

 

 

 

That was you -- stealth attack mode -- but attack mode, nonetheless.

Samantha, you're the one who walked out on your husband; spread your legs for another man; thoroughly enjoyed herself; now is trying to get back into his good graces, by deception. Probably just to get the best possible divorce settlement or something.

 

You have the gall to accuse ME of being a "snake in the grass"? You have the gall to accuse me of doing a "stealth attack"?

 

You've really got to be kidding.

 

 

 

You are just full of your version of "reasonable" explanations, aren't you?

And, you're NOT. You don't have any "reasonable" explanation for cheating on your husband; making a mockery of your marriage; and continuing to deceive him; all while invoking the name of God to justify everything that you do.

 

 

 

 

Oh my -- but then, there's YOU (the heavenly choir sings) to point out her wrongdoings.

That's not necessary. What happened to her, she did to herself. Same way that you did. That's why you're so sympathetic to each other. You both had reasonably good husbands, reasonably good marriages, with some issues perhaps. But it wasn't enough for either of you. So you both walked. And you both learned that the grass isn't always greener.

 

And now Samantha you're kind of in the same position as Wile E. Coyote who just ran off the cliff but hasn't started falling yet. But I assure you honey you are in the downward arc. Once you broke it off with your affair partner, you had nowhere else to go except back home.

 

You're not a young woman anymore, right? Close to 50? So you had your fling. Wonderful, God has forgiven that.

 

Even if you do manage to continue to deceive your h, you'll never have a satisfactory marriage because you're too selfish to tell him the truth.

 

If you get divorced, do you really think you'll be able to do better? Yes you will find plenty of guys who want to have sex with you. But you won't find anyone to have a real relationship with because you're not capable of it.

 

 

You're actually the one like Charlie Brown's teacher.

To you I must sound like Albert Einstein.

 

 

 

And you wouldn't understand the importance of communication, would you. It's just some minor........

 

 

Aren't I communicating clearly enough? Your brand of "spin" might work on other women in your particular situation (unrepentant cheaters), but you don't seem to realize that no one else is buying it. That's why you don't want to tell the truth to anyone except anonymous strangers on the internet. You're deathly afraid of being revealed for what you really are.

 

 

 

Nobody understands what someone else goes through. You are not in her situation. You're just sitting on your high horse somewhere, about to be ignored.

LOL. Who's on the high horse now? I'm not the one who's justifying my evil personal conduct by claiming I talked to God about it and he gave me a "get out of jail free card." That would be you my dear.

 

 

 

 

 

No, you are a type. It sounds like you've been jilted along the way. Not that you would admit that. Anger issues much?

....Annnnnnnnnnd she's WRONG again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't she feels that way from what I've read -- not at all. I don't feel that way about moving into my apartment. You're making assumptions you want to make to go along with the stories you are making up.

LOL. Good for you. You did exactly what you wanted to, you knew what you were doing, you planned it. And it all went kablooie on you.

 

 

Maybe he should apologize to her. Heaven forbid someone suggest that. Ooooooh.

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

 

 

The con. Who came up with that concept in this thread. You're the one throwing words like that around. Perhaps it's how your mind works. I'm sure you won't let anyone con you again.

Yes of course it is a con. How could it be anything else? You're scamming your h right now. You've been scamming him since last June. As a matter of fact you've been scamming him for your entire marriage, because you admit you never really ever had any sexual attraction to him, but married him anyway, because you were desperate to escape your family with 16 siblings, or however many there were. That was your ticket out of there.

 

You expressed surprise that a long time ago, your H TOLD you that you couldn't touch his gifted property if you ever got divorced. He KNEW what you were, and what you are, all along. He didn't even trust you enough to tell you where the spare house key was. That's because you're not trustworthy. Well, you're not, are you?

 

Frankly, I'd be astonished if the only time you ever cheated on your husband was this one time after you moved out. That just doesn't seem possible. You've probably been cheating on him for your entire marriage.

You managed your affair way too slick for this to have been your first time. Way too slick. The Elmer Gantry act just confirms the slickness of the whole deal.

 

 

 

 

Ahhhh! The chauvinism is really rearing it's ugly head now.

"Chauvinism"? Are you kidding me? Why don't you go back to your apartment, get a job, and support yourself, honey? Stop leeching off the man you cheated on.

 

 

Talk about imaginary assumptions! Perhaps you should write fiction.

 

Bye.

 

"Fiction"? You mean like the kind of "fiction" where you LIE to your husband? Nah I think you've cornered the market on that honey. Edited February 5, 2010 by zwieback.toast

[cyabye]

Haven't you heard the expression, "Man makes God in his own image"?

 

I guess this saying applies to women who cheat on their husbands, as well.

 

Lol. I think what you are trying to say is "God made man in his own image".

[Woggle]

So it's chauvinism to ask for you to do something nice for him for a change instead of blaming him for everything. It seems that you view a woman doing anything nice for a man is a form of chauvinism.

[cyabye]

More anger about someone relating to God. A relationship with God does not imply perfection. It's funny how people get so angry when other people bring up God. They always want to shout, "Hypocrite!" God knows we're not perfect. He expects more than I've given, but he understands we aren't without sin. If you think of what He did for us, you'll get that.

 

No anger here. Nor am I shouting hypocrite. But your are only deceiving yourself if you believe all is well between you and your husband by not telling him of your affair. You say you are forgiven by GOD. I cannot argue that with you because that is between you and him. However, you not telling your husband is wrong and a form of lying.

 

You acting cowardly and selfish just like your affair as you are afraid of what your husband might do. You are also taking away his right to choose whether to stay with you or not. Which is not fair to him. Trust me, I "get it". If you are truly sorry for what you have done, you would show remorse for it and confess to your husband who deserves nothing but honesty and truth. Nuff said.

 

cya

[cyabye]

And you're not getting it right by the way. You're assuming it was planned out and adding all sorts of your own problems/issues to your interpretation (which we all do probably.) It wasn't. I know people don't want to accept that, but it's not like someone sits around and says I think I'll go find someone with whom I can cheat.

 

But, if my husband were to make the poor choice to cheat -- and he asked God for forgiveness, yes his forgiveness would be between him and God.

 

Ok. Yes I know it's between him and GOD. I am not getting it wrong. I never said anything about why you cheated etc. My concern is about you keeping it from your husband and the reasons you do are selfish. PERIOD. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree or like it.

 

Now, I'll ask you again. Say he cheats and is forgiven by GOD etc. Is is OK for you not to know about it? Do you care to know? Do you want to know? Is it OK to not know? Do you get it?

 

If it is OK, then everyone should cheat while married because GOD will forgive us and we don't have to tell our spouse because we are forgiven. Deception at it's best at the expense of your husband, children, marriage and commitment to your faith in GOD. Truly selfish and one sided. I'll bow out gracefully now.

 

cya

[silverfish]

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

I'm glad you put your cards on the table there....you obviously hate women. I made the right decision in not giving out anything more personal info for you to attempt to bash me with. I'm not sure what you're doing in here but its pretty obvious you have no intention of helping, more inflaming...your anger at women shines through pretty much every word you write. You might have changed your name but I'm pretty sure I recognise who you are from previous threads - did you get banned last time?

 

I am not going to repeat myself and reiterating the facts of what happened with me. Why would anyone want to talk to you when you can't even get the information correct? No one needs to apologise to anyone around here apart from you, as its the second time you've directed personal insults towards me...won't hold my breath.

 

You come here to let out your anger at your W, mother, whoever it is, by insulting and delibarately miscontruing things that get said. And you can quote all the posts you want from any of my other threads....you'll find that I've said the same thing over and over again. You have obviously got nothing whatsoever to bring to the table in this sort of discussion.

 

I'm sure there are some men on this forum enoy the whole 'burn the witch' type inflammatory stuff that goes on, and thats obviously why you're here. I actually laughed when you mentioned you are happily married....I really hope you don't bully or abuse your wife in the way you've done with posters on here....if she exists

[silverfish]

I don't know about that but the few times my wife has had an issue she is direct and to the point with me which I respect.

 

This is exactly where I was trying to get when I went to MC with my H before I left. I recognised that the way we spoke to eachother (and it was him as well as me) was not constructive.

 

Its this problem that has made me realise that whatever I do - IC, counselling whatever, to try and get to the point that I can talk to him about my feelings, lack of intimacy and so on could be pointless if he can't do the same for me.

[zwieback.toast]

Lol. I think what you are trying to say is "God made man in his own image".

 

 

Well actually there's an ironic saying by some philosopher, I think Sartre or Nietzsche or someone like that, in which it is reversed, which is the idea that I was trying to refer to.

 

In other words, what people do is perceive "God" in a way that mirrors their own personalities, thus justifying their behavior. After all, everyone's conception of "God", phenomenonologically, is inside their own minds.

 

Samantha's idea of "God" is apparently a supernatural entity that permits her to do basically anything she wants to with no consequences attached.

 

If she actually believes what's she saying, then it goes way beyond "hypocrisy," it's more like some kind of personality disorder, although as I said before I disagree with whoever said she has sociopathic personality disorder. Although I could be wrong about that; we don't know enough about her.

 

I am convinced however that she has a much more involved history of infidelity than she has disclosed in this thread. I don't believe she's being honest about that.

[silverfish]

So it's chauvinism to ask for you to do something nice for him for a change instead of blaming him for everything. It seems that you view a woman doing anything nice for a man is a form of chauvinism.

 

I don't think that was the problem with toast guys post. His assumptions were getting a little ridiculous. Constantly using phrases like 'walked out' 'grass is always greener' doesn't make you right. Some people just don't fit into a black & white mould of 'evil cheater' or whatever.

 

I left my H for many reasons but the last straw was when I asked if he loved me he said 'I don't even like you anymore'. I don't think theres much you can say to that other than 'ok, see ya'. Just in case you didn't read back though, I didn't have an A, and I met someone else 6 months after I left.

 

I would have no problem cooking my ex H a 'nice dinner', in fact we eat together with our kids several times a week now....I do a lot of things for him that should show him I care about him still....probably too much actually.

[zwieback.toast]

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

I'm glad you put your cards on the table there....you obviously hate women.

 

LOL. Where are you getting that conclusion from? You don't think people who cheat on their spouses, and want to get back together with those spouses, have an obligation to apologize for their infidelity?

 

Your answer to all criticism is simply to make ad hominem attacks. You're also not a very honest person. That's why I looked through your posting history and posted one of your very first posts at loveshack, from back in March 2009. In that post you admit that your h was afraid to say anything to you because he was afraid you'd jump down his throat. (Just like you're doing to me, and others posting on this thread.) I guess you must have forgotten that post? Because you've been trying to portray your ex h as the "bad guy" in terms of the lack of communication in your marriage. You also acknowledged in that old post, that your view of MC was for you to just dump on your ex h. And at least at some point you discovered that wasn't its purpose.

 

And now in this thread you're essentially "replaying" the exact same dysfunctional behavior pattern and poor communications skills you had in your marriage. You've even compared me to your ex h. All you do is attack, attack, attack. You distort the other person's words as well. And you're not very truthful.

 

 

 

 

I made the right decision in not giving out anything more personal info for you to attempt to bash me with.

 

I never "bashed" you. At one point, back in March 2009, you apparently had at least a moment of clarity as to your relationship problems, and you posted about it. Re-read the thread and find your old post that I reposted here. Maybe you've missed it? You jump down people's throats. You look to blame rather than interchanging differing ideas.

 

You don't need to give out personal information. That's not the issue at all. The issue is your communication style which you "give out" simply by posting anything about yourself.

 

You came into this thread seeking only to attack me for an apparently incorrect reason. The point I had made to samantha--that her h's friends probably told him to suspect cheating--was a correct point, your ex h's friends did the same to you. And you're still angry about that, even though--your words--it was a "self fulfilling prophecy." All I've done is point out what is plain on the face of what you've been saying here.

 

The same thing with samantha. I've tried to help both of you, I really have, and I will continue to do so, but if you don't want to listen, no one can help you.

 

Obviously at this point it's pretty clear that both you and samantha need professional counseling which you can't get on an internet message board. Samantha said she's made an appointment to start, and she also said the reason she finally did so is because of MY input into this thread. Since then she's turned her "angry" on again, but that's because people in her position, and your position, are stressed and confused. They waffle back and forth between highly emotional and irrational behavior/outlook and rationality. That's why a seemingly rational, mature married person can do something which seems totally out of character.

 

You're the same way. You have moments of lucidity and rationality, where you look in the mirror and understand you have some serious issues, but these moments of clarity are buried in all your "stuff." Your issues.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're doing in here but its pretty obvious you have no intention of helping, more inflaming...

 

Not true. I already have helped. I've helped at least one very seriously troubled person, Samantha, make the important decision to actually seek therapy. I'm going to invite you to do the same. Because the problems you have aren't going to be resolved attacking strangers on the internet. Your problems are only going to be resolved through therapy, and you probably need quite a bit of it. If you get nothing else out of our conversations please--book an appointment with a qualified therapist as soon as possible.

 

 

your anger at women shines through pretty much every word you write.

 

No, not angry at all. The anger you perceive is your own anger. It's like your car windshield is dirty but you think the whole world is dirty because that's the windshield you're looking out of. You think "men" don't have good communications skills, when it's really YOU who have a problem communicating with men. You even admitted that in one of your very first posts! That problem is probably arising out of family of origin issues, i.e., you probably had a very bad relationship with your father, or maybe, your father was abusive to you. A person carries those kinds of issues into their adult relationships and if they interfere too much that's why one would benefit from therapy to address them.

 

 

 

 

I am not going to repeat myself and reiterating the facts of what happened with me. Why would anyone want to talk to you when you can't even get the information correct? No one needs to apologise to anyone around here apart from you, as its the second time you've directed personal insults towards me...won't hold my breath.

 

Once again, you've deliberately distorted and falsified my words. This is a distinct pattern with you. I never said anyone "around here" [i.e. forum members] need apologize to each other. What I said was someone who cheats on their spouse should apologize for their infidelity. If your ex h was unfaithful to you then he should apologize for that. As you should to him, if you were unfaithful. Not because I "say so." But simply because it's decent, mature behavior to do so if you want to re-establish a relationship...or even if you don't. A sincere apology can help YOU move past a bad relationship even if the relationship can't be reconciled. Again if you would simply seek out a qualified therapist you can start to productively explore these issues.

 

You come here to let out your anger at your W, mother, whoever it is, by insulting and delibarately miscontruing things that get said. And you can quote all the posts you want from any of my other threads....you'll find that I've said the same thing over and over again. You have obviously got nothing whatsoever to bring to the table in this sort of discussion.

 

Silverfish, you said what you said, it's in black and white, I posted it, and anyone can read it. They can draw their own conclusions obviously. As between the two of us, the only with anger is you. You obviously haven't said the "same thing over and over again." But again others can judge that.

 

What I do know is that you walked out of your marriage a couple of years ago, and since that time have been incapable of establishing a subsequent healthy, adult mature and loving relationship with another partner. THAT is NOT your ex H's fault.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are some men on this forum enoy the whole 'burn the witch' type inflammatory stuff that goes on, and thats obviously why you're here. I actually laughed when you mentioned you are happily married....I really hope you don't bully or abuse your wife in the way you've done with posters on here....if she exists

 

You have a pretty serious hatred of men, esp. men you perceive as "authority figures." That's obvious.

[zwieback.toast]

I don't know if the original poster is still reading, but if you are, read this entire thread very carefully, especially the responses posted by silverfish and samantha.

 

What these women are expressing will give you a great deal of insight in what you will be trying to deal with if you remain in your current relationship.

 

It's obvious that when infidelity happens it's not some kind of surface flaw in an otherwise perfect gem which can be easily polished away.

 

It's often more akin to a deep and fundamental crack, a fundamental flaw in the stone, that may have been temporarily covered over by some cheap glitter or polish, then stress in the relationship "rubs it away," and the flaw gets exposed.

 

If you want to keep that flawed gem, there's no guarantee that there's any way of fixing the crack.

[zwieback.toast]

So it's chauvinism to ask for you to do something nice for him for a change instead of blaming him for everything. It seems that you view a woman doing anything nice for a man is a form of chauvinism.

 

Bringing up the cry of "chauvinism" was just an attempted manipulation by samantha, she was getting desperate so she pulled that tired old mantra out of her bag of rhetorical tricks. Silverfish did the same thing with the "you hate women" nonsense.

 

However I agree with samantha that "chauvinism" is bad and she can do her part for women's rights by moving out of her husband's house back to her apartment, getting a job, supporting herself, and if they do get divorced, not asking for alimony nor any of his property.

 

We all know she's not going to do that. To be cynical, it's very likely that she's simply maneuvering right now to position herself for the most advantageous divorce settlement. Most likely, she will try to maneuver the situation so that she gets to stay in the house and her husband is forced to move to the shabby little apartment. (Single life doesn't look so great, that little one bedroom "love nest" gets old after the shine wears off the affair partner.)

 

She obviously has an agenda which she is not disclosing here. If she discloses the affair to her husband, she's done. She knows that. That's the reason she doesn't want to disclose it--financial. It has nothing to do with God and it certainly has nothing to do with protecting her husband's feelings.

 

She's going to try to browbeat this poor man into thinking he's at fault for all the problems in their marriage, try to make him feel extremely guilty for the failure of their marriage, get him to move out of the house and give it to her, and try to get as big of a property settlement and alimony as she can. If she discloses the affair that pretty much goes out the window.

 

She may try therapy for a little while but I do not think she is capable of getting anything out of it given the attitude she's expressed on this forum.

[silverfish]

LOL. Where are you getting that conclusion from? You don't think people who cheat on their spouses, and want to get back together with those spouses, have an obligation to apologize for their infidelity?

 

Your answer to all criticism is simply to make ad hominem attacks. You're also not a very honest person. That's why I looked through your posting history and posted one of your very first posts at loveshack, from back in March 2009. In that post you admit that your h was afraid to say anything to you because he was afraid you'd jump down his throat. (Just like you're doing to me, and others posting on this thread.) I guess you must have forgotten that post? Because you've been trying to portray your ex h as the "bad guy" in terms of the lack of communication in your marriage. You also acknowledged in that old post, that your view of MC was for you to just dump on your ex h. And at least at some point you discovered that wasn't its purpose.

 

And now in this thread you're essentially "replaying" the exact same dysfunctional behavior pattern and poor communications skills you had in your marriage. You've even compared me to your ex h. All you do is attack, attack, attack. You distort the other person's words as well. And you're not very truthful.

 

I never "bashed" you. At one point, back in March 2009, you apparently had at least a moment of clarity as to your relationship problems, and you posted about it. Re-read the thread and find your old post that I reposted here. Maybe you've missed it? You jump down people's throats. You look to blame rather than interchanging differing ideas.

 

You don't need to give out personal information. That's not the issue at all. The issue is your communication style which you "give out" simply by posting anything about yourself.

 

You came into this thread seeking only to attack me for an apparently incorrect reason. The point I had made to samantha--that her h's friends probably told him to suspect cheating--was a correct point, your ex h's friends did the same to you. And you're still angry about that, even though--your words--it was a "self fulfilling prophecy." All I've done is point out what is plain on the face of what you've been saying here.

 

The same thing with samantha. I've tried to help both of you, I really have, and I will continue to do so, but if you don't want to listen, no one can help you.

 

Obviously at this point it's pretty clear that both you and samantha need professional counseling which you can't get on an internet message board. Samantha said she's made an appointment to start, and she also said the reason she finally did so is because of MY input into this thread. Since then she's turned her "angry" on again, but that's because people in her position, and your position, are stressed and confused. They waffle back and forth between highly emotional and irrational behavior/outlook and rationality. That's why a seemingly rational, mature married person can do something which seems totally out of character.

 

You're the same way. You have moments of lucidity and rationality, where you look in the mirror and understand you have some serious issues, but these moments of clarity are buried in all your "stuff." Your issues.

 

 

 

 

Not true. I already have helped. I've helped at least one very seriously troubled person, Samantha, make the important decision to actually seek therapy. I'm going to invite you to do the same. Because the problems you have aren't going to be resolved attacking strangers on the internet. Your problems are only going to be resolved through therapy, and you probably need quite a bit of it. If you get nothing else out of our conversations please--book an appointment with a qualified therapist as soon as possible.

 

 

No, not angry at all. The anger you perceive is your own anger. It's like your car windshield is dirty but you think the whole world is dirty because that's the windshield you're looking out of. You think "men" don't have good communications skills, when it's really YOU who have a problem communicating with men. You even admitted that in one of your very first posts! That problem is probably arising out of family of origin issues, i.e., you probably had a very bad relationship with your father, or maybe, your father was abusive to you. A person carries those kinds of issues into their adult relationships and if they interfere too much that's why one would benefit from therapy to address them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, you've deliberately distorted and falsified my words. This is a distinct pattern with you. I never said anyone "around here" [i.e. forum members] need apologize to each other. What I said was someone who cheats on their spouse should apologize for their infidelity. If your ex h was unfaithful to you then he should apologize for that. As you should to him, if you were unfaithful. Not because I "say so." But simply because it's decent, mature behavior to do so if you want to re-establish a relationship...or even if you don't. A sincere apology can help YOU move past a bad relationship even if the relationship can't be reconciled. Again if you would simply seek out a qualified therapist you can start to productively explore these issues.

 

 

 

Silverfish, you said what you said, it's in black and white, I posted it, and anyone can read it. They can draw their own conclusions obviously. As between the two of us, the only with anger is you. You obviously haven't said the "same thing over and over again." But again others can judge that.

 

What I do know is that you walked out of your marriage a couple of years ago, and since that time have been incapable of establishing a subsequent healthy, adult mature and loving relationship with another partner. THAT is NOT your ex H's fault.

 

 

 

 

 

You have a pretty serious hatred of men, esp. men you perceive as "authority figures." That's obvious.

 

Look, I can sort of see by the amount of effort you're putting in here that it's possible you're trying to help. I did re read my earlier posts, and the one below the one you quoted. Its been 5 yrs since we went to MC, and 2 since I left now, so I can safely say that its all gone in now, as you can see by the advice I gave that guy in my post last year.

 

You are not seeing that insulting me by calling me a 'cheating slut' and saying 'what colour is your trailer' has absolutely antagonsied me towards you. I don't have a problem with 'all men', and it's you who is confusing the problem I came here to get help with, with the way I've reacted TOWARDS YOU. I still keep talking to you though...what does that tell you about me?

 

I think you're over analysing a lot of what got said...you are picking and chosing the negatives and ignoring the positives. There are some pretty big issues that you've glossed over, by focusing endlessly on trying to break me down into a sobbing heap crying 'pleeeeeease for give me for being a cheating slut' to my ex H. I've already said I would consider going to IC if there was a possibility that I'd get the same commitment from him to make it work.

 

I can guarantee that my ex H is not right now, or any time soon, about to spend hours of introspection, working through his feelings, going to IC, talking to his friends or family and so on, to try and work out how to make things work with me, and I'd like to know how I am supposed to get this to happen without resorting to the angry exchanges we had in the past.

[Samantha0905]

 

Now, I'll ask you again. Say he cheats and is forgiven by GOD etc. Is is OK for you not to know about it? Do you care to know? Do you want to know? Is it OK to not know? Do you get it?

 

 

You're right. You do have a right to your own opinion and I have no problem with you're having one. Thanks for your comments.

 

As to the above, if he were truly sorry for what he did and wanted to continue in the marriage with no intent of ever doing it again -- I would PREFER not to know. And yes, I get it.

[Samantha0905]

So it's chauvinism to ask for you to do something nice for him for a change instead of blaming him for everything. It seems that you view a woman doing anything nice for a man is a form of chauvinism.

 

I don't think anyone was saying it was just the husbands in these two situations -- or blaming them for everything.

[Samantha0905]

Yes if he facked some slut he should apologize to her. Just as she, and you, should apologize to your h's for being that slut.

I'm glad you put your cards on the table there....you obviously hate women. I made the right decision in not giving out anything more personal info for you to attempt to bash me with. I'm not sure what you're doing in here but its pretty obvious you have no intention of helping, more inflaming...your anger at women shines through pretty much every word you write. You might have changed your name but I'm pretty sure I recognise who you are from previous threads - did you get banned last time?

 

I am not going to repeat myself and reiterating the facts of what happened with me. Why would anyone want to talk to you when you can't even get the information correct? No one needs to apologise to anyone around here apart from you, as its the second time you've directed personal insults towards me...won't hold my breath.

 

You come here to let out your anger at your W, mother, whoever it is, by insulting and delibarately miscontruing things that get said. And you can quote all the posts you want from any of my other threads....you'll find that I've said the same thing over and over again. You have obviously got nothing whatsoever to bring to the table in this sort of discussion.

 

I'm sure there are some men on this forum enoy the whole 'burn the witch' type inflammatory stuff that goes on, and thats obviously why you're here. I actually laughed when you mentioned you are happily married....I really hope you don't bully or abuse your wife in the way you've done with posters on here....if she exists

 

Ding, ding, ding. Nice post.

[silverfish]

Bringing up the cry of "chauvinism" was just an attempted manipulation by samantha, she was getting desperate so she pulled that tired old mantra out of her bag of rhetorical tricks. Silverfish did the same thing with the "you hate women" nonsense.

 

You said that both me & Samantha were 'cheating sluts' that is hateful & we are both women.....care to address this ? Until you do, it will be impossible for me to engage with you.

 

You also chose to ignore my post to Woggle about 'cooking a nice dinner' want to explain why anything positive said by me gets ignored?

[zwieback.toast]

I don't think that was the problem with toast guys post. His assumptions were getting a little ridiculous. Constantly using phrases like 'walked out' 'grass is always greener' doesn't make you right. Some people just don't fit into a black & white mould of 'evil cheater' or whatever.

 

Silverfish, you did walk out of your marriage. You specifically said you ended your marriage because you "wanted out."

 

The point is that the "grass is NOT always greener," but many people think otherwise. And you're right...simply because I can use the phrase doesn't make me right. However, in your particular case....it was right! You left your marriage but haven't been able to find anything better. And for whatever reason, probably because you haven't addressed your personal issues, you haven't been able to reconcile with your ex.

 

So right now apparently you're stuck in "limbo." In any case, your situation is a perfect example of the phrase, the "grass isn't always greener."

 

 

 

 

 

I left my H for many reasons but the last straw was when I asked if he loved me he said 'I don't even like you anymore'. I don't think theres much you can say to that other than 'ok, see ya'.

 

There's PLENTY you could have said. Such as: "What is it about me that you don't like? What can I do for you to try to improve on the areas I have been letting you down in our marriage? Also in the process of me trying to improve myself, would you mind if I expressed my concerns about you? Can we try to commit to work together in every way possible to improve our marriage? Can we please go to marital counseling to address our issues?" Etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

You see, silverfish, even though you don't "want to reveal" anything more about yourself, you just can't help it. Everything you say reveals something whether you want to or not. Your ex H DID communicate with you, he did so clearly and directly. He told you he didn't even like you anymore. But you didn't like the content of that message, did you? So rather than confront it and try to solve the problem, you bailed.

 

Did it ever ever ever occur to you silverfish, that your ex told you he didn't like you anymore, because you had actually become an unlikable person? Is that possibility beyond the realm of comprehension for you? Do you actually think your ex H WANTED to confront you with that bombshell? Do you think he got any pleasure out of that?

 

More importantly, have you ever asked him, since that time, WHAT he finds unlikable about you? If not, how can you reconcile? You need to CHANGE some things about YOURSELF. That's the message your ex tried to get through to you, and you simply didn't want to listen to it. You certainly have no problem criticizing what you see as deficient in your ex. But you do have a problem listening to others' criticisms of you. Which is exactly what I told you just from what you've posted in this thread.

 

 

Just in case you didn't read back though, I didn't have an A, and I met someone else 6 months after I left.

 

Well you nicely muddled the facts yourself in this thread, and previously you'd admitted that. You had complained that your ex H's friends falsely accused of being a cheater but that the accusation became a "self fulfilling prophecy" because your ex got another woman after you left, and then you did the same thing in an apparent reaction to what your ex H did. And you blamed that situation for your failure to be able to reconcile with your ex.

 

Then you change up and clarified that you regarded both you and your ex as "single" as soon as you walked out of the marriage. OK, no harm, no foul. So why did you complain about what your ex H's friends said, and what your ex H did, in the first place? No answer. I know.

 

 

 

I would have no problem cooking my ex H a 'nice dinner', in fact we eat together with our kids several times a week now....I do a lot of things for him that should show him I care about him still....probably too much actually.

 

 

You would have no problem doing it, fine. Have you actually done it, though? In a loving, non-grudging, non-put-upon manner? Have you cooked him a nice meal with no expectations, no quid pro quo, just as an expression of love for him?

 

If not, why not?

 

And by the way...how is it "chauvinistic" to cook one's spouse a nice meal?

[confusedinkansas]

Originally Posted by zwieback.toast:

LOL I don't have an ex. I was fortunate enough to marry a good woman. She thinks my listening skills are just dandy by the way.

 

If this REALLY is the case (& I don't know your story) - What are you doing here? Why & How is it that you are the expert on infidelity....Telling vs. not telling........intimacy issues after affairs.........

How is it that you are here TELLING (& bashing) everyone who is posting HOW & WHAT they felt in their relationships - When - Accouding to this post - You have never been in any of these situations?????

 

It just seems interesting to me that you seem to have all the answers, with zero experience.

Edited February 5, 2010 by confusedinkansas

[Woggle]

I will admit I have issue with women because I see too many women who take no accountability whatsoever for their situations. If calling me a chauvinist or a misogynist helps a woman to avoid accountability then so be it. I really do try to give good women a chance though.

[zwieback.toast]

Look, I can sort of see by the amount of effort you're putting in here that it's possible you're trying to help. I did re read my earlier posts, and the one below the one you quoted. Its been 5 yrs since we went to MC, and 2 since I left now, so I can safely say that its all gone in now, as you can see by the advice I gave that guy in my post last year.

 

Well I bolded the part of your quote I thought was most important, which is that your ex was afraid to talk to you because of your let's say overly-aggressive communications style. The reason I quoted your own words is because in this thread you have been blaming me, "men," and your ex for your inability to communicate effectively. But what do you expect when you keep jumping down people's throats? You've been doing it a lot in this thread. I don't really know what "it's all gone in now" means. But if you haven't fixed your communication skills problems, then they're still problems. They won't just "go away" or "gone in now" by themselves.

 

You are not seeing that insulting me by calling me a 'cheating slut' and saying 'what colour is your trailer' has absolutely antagonsied me towards you.

 

The trailer comment was a pretty obvious joke. It was in response to a post by you in which you justified some aspect of your behavior by pointing out several other drama-filled relationships in your immediate family involving break-ups, reconciliations, etc. Maybe that's what your "normal" looks like. But if you totally lack any sense of humor you should try and get one. Seriously. Also I did NOT call you a "cheating slut." I think this is another instance of your seeing something that simply isn't there.

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with 'all men', and it's you who is confusing the problem I came here to get help with, with the way I've reacted TOWARDS YOU. I still keep talking to you though...what does that tell you about me?

 

IMO you do have a problem with "men," maybe not "all" men, but certainly you've made numerous generalizations about "men" in this thread which are more a reflection of your feelings than of reality.

 

You are free to keep responding/talking to me or not as you please, that's entirely up to you. The fact that you do or you don't really doesn't tell me anything about you since I don't know why you would or wouldn't.

 

I think you're over analysing a lot of what got said...you are picking and chosing the negatives and ignoring the positives.

 

OK I'm not sure what you're talking about here. This thread was started by a man who was cheated on by his partner. This thread is not about your situation. Samantha came flying into more or less to persuade the original poster that maybe cheating wasn't such a bad thing for the relationship or some such rubbish. Then you came flying into the thread to attack me (obviously in support of samantha) for saying something entirely reasonable in response to samantha's situation.

 

I wouldn't let you get away with mischaracterizing what I had said, simply because I don't like when people do that; and that got you very angry. And basically you've been doing a lot of venting and accusing. Every time I try to get things back on track and provide a little objectivity and clarity, you go into "attack mode." Samantha was nice for a while, but then she went into "attack mode" as well. Now I've been called a "chauvinist," a "women hater," a "snake in the grass..." by you and samantha at various points.

 

What kind of nonsense is that? I'm a "chauvinist"? Why doesn't samantha move out of her h's house, get her own job, and support herself?

 

I'm a "snake in the grass"? Gee did I deceive my spouse? No I don't think I did.

 

This is all good however for the original poster because it will show him what he's dealing with. A fundamental lack of integrity and dishonesty. That's what this thread is all about. And even if at this point you don't consider yourself to be a cheater, by supporting samantha, you are supporting someone who has been extraordinarily dishonest in her own marriage. You won't be able to fix your own relationships, if that's what you want to do, until you are able to "get on the other side" of things.

 

That would mean call a spade a spade, see things for what they really are. You don't support dishonest people in their dishonesty, for one thing.

 

 

There are some pretty big issues that you've glossed over, by focusing endlessly on trying to break me down into a sobbing heap crying 'pleeeeeease for give me for being a cheating slut' to my ex H.

 

Once again you're attributing something to me that is not even close to anything I've posted. This is an example of your poor communications skills. You don't pay attention/don't want to pay attention to what people are saying to you, you misinterpret/miscontrue what you do pay attention to, and then attack in response to your own misinterpretation/misconstruction.

 

All I'm telling you is you need to be honest with yourself and with others if you want to improve your relationships, whether that's reconciliation or a future relationship. Samantha has shown a shocking degree and level of dishonesty in practically everthing she's posted. If YOU want to establish honesty in your life and in your relationships, you just can't support dishonesty in others. The fact that you don't realize that shows you have a very very long way to go. If you're not a cheater, fine, I accept that. But in that case stop making common cause with other people who ARE unfaithful and ARE dishonest. It won't help you one bit.

 

Your ex tried to be honest with you, brutally honest, when he told you he didn't like you anymore. You didn't want to hear that honesty, so you left. There may have been other reasons, sure. But if you don't even want to listen to what the other person is saying, you can't ever address those other problems.

 

 

 

I've already said I would consider going to IC if there was a possibility that I'd get the same commitment from him to make it work.

 

OK I'm glad you've said this because yet again it discloses more useful information that you don't realize you've disclosed. IC is not a "quid pro quo" in which YOU refuse to go unless some other person also goes. A person goes to IC for their own benefit, that's why it's "individual counseling." If you need IC for some reason--and IMO you clearly do, and you even seem to recognize that yourself--then YOU GO to it. Whether or not someone else also perceives the need for his own IC.

 

How can you not understand that?

 

If you were in a car accident with someone else, and both of you broke your legs, would you refuse to go to the hospital and get it fixed simply because the other person for whatever reason refused medical attention? I hope not. Why do you think IC is any different (only it's psychological, not medical obv.)

 

Do you also realize that if both of you went to IC, and both of you went through successful courses of individual counseling, and addressed whatever personal issues you both have, and then whatever relationship issues you might have, the MOST LIKELY outcome is that you would NOT reconcile? (But you would both be able to move on and hopefully establish loving relationships with other people.)

 

When two very dysfunctional people are together in a dysfunctional relationship, and one or both finally addresses their issues, it often ends the relationship because it was the dysfunction itself that cemented the relationship together. When the dysfunction is removed there's no need for the relationship anymore.

 

Now you have kids together so that might not be the case for you and your ex. But it often happens like that. Once the parties get healthy, one or both of them can grow beyond the old relationship and they move on to other relationships.

 

 

 

I can guarantee that my ex H is not right now, or any time soon, about to spend hours of introspection, working through his feelings, going to IC, talking to his friends or family and so on, to try and work out how to make things work with me, and I'd like to know how I am supposed to get this to happen without resorting to the angry exchanges we had in the past.

 

You don't. Who ever told you that you had any right to expect someone else to go to IC, for any reason? I guess if you were still married to him you could insist he go to IC as a condition for not getting divorced. But you're already divorced.

 

Besides, if you're convinced that there is no way your ex will ever work on his issues--and you may be quite correct about this--why are you even contemplating reconciliation? You're just finding a reason to stay in "relationship limbo" because, like I said, about the grass....well you know what I said.