As vs "Normal" Rs (another spin-off)

[anne1707]

It's 18 months since Dday and whilst recovery is going well, we both accept that we are not there yet (I still work with the ex-OM which really does not help). As for dating my H - we both love that and will do our utmost to keep it up. We have both recognised how we neglected "us" and that we need time to concentrate on each other without all the day to day stuff getting in the way.

 

I also get to spend a lot more on underwear than I used to (as does he - he has finally learnt my size)

[White Flower]

It's 18 months since Dday and whilst recovery is going well, we both accept that we are not there yet (I still work with the ex-OM which really does not help). As for dating my H - we both love that and will do our utmost to keep it up. We have both recognised how we neglected "us" and that we need time to concentrate on each other without all the day to day stuff getting in the way.

 

I also get to spend a lot more on underwear than I used to (as does he - he has finally learnt my size)

Not THAT is very important! Love it!

[Fallen Angel]

see this is where the totally different values come in.

I would not let a man stay overnight in my bedroom in front of my children especially a very sexually impressionable sixth grader and especially not a married man. I think it is the wrong message to show the kids.

 

What "message" do you think i am showing my children?

 

They certainly are not in my room while we are having sex, though they do occasionally all come in and cuddle while we watch a movie together if it is not a school night.

 

The message that I am showing my kids is that after my horrid marriage in which they saw me be beaten, i am not afraid to open myself up again.

 

The message I am showing my kids, is that mommy is worthy of being treated kindly, and gently and lovingly by a man, who often compliments me on my intelligence and my humour and my kindness in front of my children, something they never saw their father do.

 

The lesson I am showing my kids is that during a disagreement with My MM he NEVER raises his voice to me, and even if he gets upset with me he NEVER calls me names, and he NEVER raises a hand to me. Something that before he was in our lives they thought was 'normal' relationship behaviour, now they see us "disagree" and My MM pulling me on to his lap, kissing my forehead and saying he is sorry if he is at fault.

 

The message that I am showing my kids is that being loved properly, makes mommy laugh and smile, while for 15 years they saw me cry while i was with their father.

 

The message I am showing my children is that I still have the capacity to love, despite how horribly I was treated by someone who would say that he loved me.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that i will not give up on life.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that I am strong.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that with every relationship they will encounter, they face the reality that it may be very happy, it may be very sad, it may work out, and it may not, but that it is certainly worth it to try regardless of the ending!!

 

You worry about the lessons you teach your children, I will worry about the lessons I teach mine.

[fooled once]

OK, since we're doing the derivative thing, here's another spin-off thread based on points raised in another post on another thread...

 

As I posted there, I've always conducted myself exactly the same in an A as in any other R - with the same boundaries, the same expectations, and the same results. I did not accept any behaviour from a MM that I would not have accepted from a SG (or vice versa) and I made no allowances for the "structural constraints" of their being M - that was their problem, not mine.

 

Clearly there are different views on this, and different experiences. So, I thought I'd start a thread about it. Clearly, they are not NECESSARILY different (since at least some OWs have stated that their A experience was "just like any other R" in terms of what they expected and what they got), but I'm interested in whether people (on whatever side of the triangle) feel they SHOULD be different, and if so, how, and why?

 

I was totally different in my A than I was in other relationships.

 

I accepted "being hidden". I accepted not being able to speak to him at certain times. I accepted crumbs.

 

In my M, when we were dating, I didn't accept any of that. I refused to ever be treated that way again. The A taught me that. Also taught me I deserved better.

[pureinheart]

Okay, here is my take on the question:

 

In an A you have to pre-plan a time and place to meet, like dating. You take care to groom yourself and put you best face forward; you try hard to impress each other and be your "best," person.

 

Sounds nice. Sounds fun. Sounds exciting.

 

In a normal relationship, you discuss and negotiate bill paying, banking, car repairs, share responsibilities of house, and vomiting children, or each other!) at 2 a.m. Most likely you both work. You also share extended family resposibilities, holiday, highs and lows, and romanticism waxes and wanes.

 

You'd like to date, but it's hard to find the time to do so.

 

This is the reality of a R, I think in an A such as O Woman, she may have had similar resposibilities (an exchange of one for another as you listed).

 

In dealing with my SO during crucial times, we did not do so well...his fault, my fault, both our faults or no ones fault just normal reactions to some major changes.

 

I don't want to tell my life story all freaking over AGAIN, so unless someone comes into my life from the past, I will mostlikely stay with SO and I am sure in time it will progress....although now Spark....it IS a big resposibility and I am not ready for it and what I bolded is sooooo the truth.

[GreenEyedLady]

Prior to LS I would have agreed with this sentiment.

However, this forum in particular is full of posters who WANT more and do not get it. Instead, they get more lies, excuses and obfuscations about why they cannot have it. And THAT they accept.

 

It is because they accept less that they get it. Why stay with someone who knows that they hurt you yet doesn't care? When someone truly loves you, they won't hurt you anymore.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

Yes of course spontaneity is inherent to an A... how can it be different... you cannot say.. you want to go on a weekend getaway... you can't do that on a 5-minute notice with a MM... on a relationship.. it's way easier..

 

You can't do that when you or your partner have kids either. There is an inordinate amount of planning that goes into dating when you have kids. Spontaneity has nothing to do with R's unless you make it so.

 

And an A isn't an affair unless YOU make it so. Mine was a RELATIONSHIP.

 

GEL

[MizzBlue72]

Oh I LIKE this topic !!!

 

OK - A's are SO different then R's. IMO that is.

 

SO much secrecy, and feeling like a dirty little secret. SO much planning - but I didn't mind.

 

I did (and so did MM) start our A being married. We BOTH wanted NSA sex. We really, really thought we could do this. Neither one of us did this before.

 

Problem was, 1 month into NSA, I fell in love. I mean HUGE love with him. He didn't - and could NOT believe that I fell so fast.

 

Hard part now - fast forward a year or so ....

we are now starting the relationship part ... no strings. It is still hard. He loves me. I love him. I have put him through hell and back - dating another guy, trying to end it (since I left my M before he did).

 

No - I have to tell you, from my experience, A's are MUCH different than R's. We still can not be with our families together. It's hard.

[pureinheart]

What "message" do you think i am showing my children?

 

They certainly are not in my room while we are having sex, though they do occasionally all come in and cuddle while we watch a movie together if it is not a school night.

 

The message that I am showing my kids is that after my horrid marriage in which they saw me be beaten, i am not afraid to open myself up again.

 

The message I am showing my kids, is that mommy is worthy of being treated kindly, and gently and lovingly by a man, who often compliments me on my intelligence and my humour and my kindness in front of my children, something they never saw their father do.

 

The lesson I am showing my kids is that during a disagreement with My MM he NEVER raises his voice to me, and even if he gets upset with me he NEVER calls me names, and he NEVER raises a hand to me. Something that before he was in our lives they thought was 'normal' relationship behaviour, now they see us "disagree" and My MM pulling me on to his lap, kissing my forehead and saying he is sorry if he is at fault.

 

The message that I am showing my kids is that being loved properly, makes mommy laugh and smile, while for 15 years they saw me cry while i was with their father.

 

The message I am showing my children is that I still have the capacity to love, despite how horribly I was treated by someone who would say that he loved me.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that i will not give up on life.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that I am strong.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that with every relationship they will encounter, they face the reality that it may be very happy, it may be very sad, it may work out, and it may not, but that it is certainly worth it to try regardless of the ending!!

 

You worry about the lessons you teach your children, I will worry about the lessons I teach mine.

 

 

First of all FA, I have read other replies concerning the things you went through and want to say you are one h*ll of a lady, and I use LADY, because that IS what you are.

 

I haven't read the entire thread, it is a good thread so definitely will....so if my reply to this kinda is off the general flow of your conversation with GG, just know homegirl here is a space case...k...lol....

 

Anyway, FA be real with your kids just like you have....your kids via your experiences WILL prosper if you don't hide things from them.

 

I have broken EVERY rule in the book of life, yet I was extremely real with my kids and they NEVER judged me , talked sh*t, nothing and BOTH kids are very successful in all things.

 

No parent will be perfect, and my SO for some reason can't wrap his brain around the fact that his kids are not stupid and when they ask don't lie, if ya don't want to talk about it, say it and leave it at that, but don't play games with them.

 

Kids need love, and I have no doubt that you give your kids MORE than enough....keep up the good work!

[pureinheart]

Oh I LIKE this topic !!!

 

OK - A's are SO different then R's. IMO that is.

 

SO much secrecy, and feeling like a dirty little secret. SO much planning - but I didn't mind.

 

I did (and so did MM) start our A being married. We BOTH wanted NSA sex. We really, really thought we could do this. Neither one of us did this before.

 

Problem was, 1 month into NSA, I fell in love. I mean HUGE love with him. He didn't - and could NOT believe that I fell so fast.

 

Hard part now - fast forward a year or so ....

we are now starting the relationship part ... no strings. It is still hard. He loves me. I love him. I have put him through hell and back - dating another guy, trying to end it (since I left my M before he did).

 

No - I have to tell you, from my experience, A's are MUCH different than R's. We still can not be with our families together. It's hard.

 

You are so cute! Hey, we do the best we can with what we have, right?

[pureinheart]

You can't do that when you or your partner have kids either. There is an inordinate amount of planning that goes into dating when you have kids. Spontaneity has nothing to do with R's unless you make it so.

 

And an A isn't an affair unless YOU make it so. Mine was a RELATIONSHIP.

 

GEL

 

You know what GEL, mine was too, and I think others on here would say the same.

 

MY SO genuinly LOVES me and is IN LOVE with me and always has been. I noticed myself lately in replying having a real hard time calling myself the OW...sometimes used terms such as New Woman, AP and OP....also the term A has such a negative connotation to it.

 

Maybe we need some new definitions on this board....what do ya think?

 

I have heard BS's (and that has such a negative connotation too) refer to the "OW" as the intruder, there were times that I felt his exW was the intruder. No offence intended to anyone...k...

[Lizzie60]

You can't do that when you or your partner have kids either. There is an inordinate amount of planning that goes into dating when you have kids. Spontaneity has nothing to do with R's unless you make it so.

 

And an A isn't an affair unless YOU make it so. Mine was a RELATIONSHIP.

 

GEL

 

Of course if a couple have kids it's a little more organization but it's still easier to have spontaneity when there is only ONE 'family' involved...

[Lizzie60]

Being in a relationship doesn't ONLY mean that the two persons are in love.. there is much more involved...

 

in a relationship there is no secrecy... the A.. yes

 

you cannot (except in very rare cases) bring your AP to any family celebrations (weddings, x-mas, etc.)..

[GreenEyedLady]

Of course if a couple have kids it's a little more organization but it's still easier to have spontaneity when there is only ONE 'family' involved...

 

Try when you're divorced with kids and the man you're dating is divorced with young kids. I dated other men with kids and I had young kids and you're lucky if you both have the same weekends without kids.

 

So there is often two families involved. Marital status need not apply.

 

GEL

[silktricks]

What "message" do you think i am showing my children?

 

They certainly are not in my room while we are having sex, though they do occasionally all come in and cuddle while we watch a movie together if it is not a school night.

 

The message that I am showing my kids is that after my horrid marriage in which they saw me be beaten, i am not afraid to open myself up again.

 

The message I am showing my kids, is that mommy is worthy of being treated kindly, and gently and lovingly by a man, who often compliments me on my intelligence and my humour and my kindness in front of my children, something they never saw their father do.

 

The lesson I am showing my kids is that during a disagreement with My MM he NEVER raises his voice to me, and even if he gets upset with me he NEVER calls me names, and he NEVER raises a hand to me. Something that before he was in our lives they thought was 'normal' relationship behaviour, now they see us "disagree" and My MM pulling me on to his lap, kissing my forehead and saying he is sorry if he is at fault.

 

The message that I am showing my kids is that being loved properly, makes mommy laugh and smile, while for 15 years they saw me cry while i was with their father.

 

The message I am showing my children is that I still have the capacity to love, despite how horribly I was treated by someone who would say that he loved me.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that i will not give up on life.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that I am strong.

 

The message I am showing my kids is that with every relationship they will encounter, they face the reality that it may be very happy, it may be very sad, it may work out, and it may not, but that it is certainly worth it to try regardless of the ending!!

 

You worry about the lessons you teach your children, I will worry about the lessons I teach mine.

 

Sounds like you're doing good.

[Fallen Angel]

Sounds like you're doing good.

 

Thanks!

[JoyDevine]

AAAAAAAAAAAhahahaha.. I am gonna show him that and tell him I need a "date night" soon!!!

 

lol.. sad part is, he has paid hotel rooms often times when he is in my town, and yet rather than being there we are sitting at my kitchen table eating my homemade meatloaf and listening to "tales of a kindergarden girl" or "sixth grade girl drama" or "I was a teenaged boy who knew it all" and laughing and passing the salad dressing and then playing silly games like "Are you smarter than a fifth grader?" (often the answer sadly is NO) or "Blockus".. until the kids go to bed and he and I cuddle up together on my bed, and watch the news or the history channel and sometimes, not always but often enough these days to keep me smiling, have some really HOT SEX and then fall asleep in each others arms until the alarm goes off (often an hour earlier than we have to get up) so that we have that extra hour together just cuddling and talking and sometimes having really hot sex before we have to get up and get the kids up. LOL

 

just curious (nosy). Have you thought that maybe your MM is just naturally polygamous and likes having two wives? Because that's what he has.

 

I know a polygamous family. They sound like your situation only the man has more wives and they of course know about each other and are friends. But they have separate households and the man divides his time among them. No one is an "other" and there's no cheating or lies. Every one seems happy.

[torranceshipman]

I agree....he sounds very happy being involved in both family lives.

[Fallen Angel]

just curious (nosy). Have you thought that maybe your MM is just naturally polygamous and likes having two wives? Because that's what he has.

 

I know a polygamous family. They sound like your situation only the man has more wives and they of course know about each other and are friends. But they have separate households and the man divides his time among them. No one is an "other" and there's no cheating or lies. Every one seems happy.

 

That could quite possibly be the case. He is very much a "family" man. In that he loves doing "family" things, at least with me and my kids. As to how involved he is at his house with his family. *shrug* I know that he does do alot of things with his son and his grandchild, but other than that, I don't know that he is very involved there.

 

I know there are often "family" activities that he does not attend with them, or attends grudgingly.. but he in general does seem to thrive on the family atmosphere in my home, so I would assume he often does in his house as well.

 

I don't know that he wants two wives though, but he wants very much to be a part of my family, without losing what part of his family he still has of his own. (that is why he struggles so much, it is not HER per se that he struggles with leaving, but "the family"... when we talk about it he never says "her" does that make sense?)

 

He is very split... anyway.. I need to start dinner soon and as he is on his way I will only be popping in once or twice tonight to check on some messages i am expecting.. You all have a great night!

[JoyDevine]

That could quite possibly be the case. He is very much a "family" man.

 

Your story also reminds me of Charles Kuralt and his "shadow" family.

You've probably heard about it but here's an interview with his "shadow" wife who no one knew about until he died:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0102/14/lkl.00.html

[pureinheart]

Prior to LS I would have agreed with this sentiment.

However, this forum in particular is full of posters who WANT more and do not get it. Instead, they get more lies, excuses and obfuscations about why they cannot have it. And THAT they accept.

 

We read things like "half a man is better than none" (I forget who said that). And many times, the OW/OM is SINGLE.

 

For me its absolutely mind-boggling.

 

 

 

These are my questions as well.

 

Actually JW, I don't disagree that posters have said that half a man is better than none...although have to say that every single one of the posters on LS as a whole are extremely intelligent people thriving.

 

Now speaking of the romantic forums, with the above said, I donot think any of them are ignorant concerning their own situations. I don't believe they are settling for anything. I think whatever the circumstances of the R is is working for them at that particular time.

 

Now these dynamics change and that is when they say hey, I'm done with how things have been and changing it by whatever means.

 

For me, I settled for nothing, during the EA he treated me priddy darn good, it worked for me at the time...then it started to go to a different level, which did not fit...at this same time I realised I needed more...so I would rather have nothing than less than what I am getting (emotionally).

[pureinheart]

affair is an affair

 

relationship is a relationship plain and simple

 

(answer seems to be s*it but not more than the Q)

 

Scorp...so few words????? Sometimes they can be two in the same. Scorp, you are priceless (not being sarcastic either).

[jwi71]

Actually JW, I don't disagree that posters have said that half a man is better than none...although have to say that every single one of the posters on LS as a whole are extremely intelligent people thriving.

 

Then we will agree to disagree.

If I want it all, then I want it all.

I, personally, won't accept less than what I want.

 

Now speaking of the romantic forums, with the above said, I donot think any of them are ignorant concerning their own situations. I don't believe they are settling for anything. I think whatever the circumstances of the R is is working for them at that particular time.

 

We must be reading different forums. The forums I read here are of OW/OM absolutely miserable and going virtually nuts over their situations.

 

Now these dynamics change and that is when they say hey, I'm done with how things have been and changing it by whatever means.

 

Again, I don't get this from the threads I read. They usually ask, in one form or another: "help", "what does he/she mean by this", "Im in pain but not enough to leave", "I want things to change but I don't know how", "He picked his W"...you get the idea. So them changing things by whatever means is...well, not how I understand them.

 

For me, I settled for nothing, during the EA he treated me priddy darn good, it worked for me at the time...then it started to go to a different level, which did not fit...at this same time I realised I needed more...so I would rather have nothing than less than what I am getting (emotionally).

 

I'm not following you...you had EA, it became more and you didn't settle. Meaning what? You left him? You married him? Could you explain?

[fooled once]

Try when you're divorced with kids and the man you're dating is divorced with young kids. I dated other men with kids and I had young kids and you're lucky if you both have the same weekends without kids.

 

So there is often two families involved. Marital status need not apply.

 

GEL

 

AMEN.

 

I dated/married a man with 2 kids ---- and I had sole custody of mine and my ex rarely took his visitation! Planning took a lot of work and coordination!!

[pureinheart]

Then we will agree to disagree.

If I want it all, then I want it all.

I, personally, won't accept less than what I want.

 

 

 

We must be reading different forums. The forums I read here are of OW/OM absolutely miserable and going virtually nuts over their situations.

 

 

 

Again, I don't get this from the threads I read. They usually ask, in one form or another: "help", "what does he/she mean by this", "Im in pain but not enough to leave", "I want things to change but I don't know how", "He picked his W"...you get the idea. So them changing things by whatever means is...well, not how I understand them.

 

 

 

I'm not following you...you had EA, it became more and you didn't settle. Meaning what? You left him? You married him? Could you explain?

 

I would love to agree to disagree!

 

Yes, I had an EA with a co-worker. His M was over and I decided to D my H.

 

During the EA we hung out sometimes, smoked ciggs together, he helped me witrh many repairs around my home and such.

 

Then we drifted apart kind of, due to work situations, he got laid off and we saw each other much less. He came over a lot (for home repairs after that), although I began to feel like I was just a "work thing", then after that started to feel like the "dirty little secret"...he kept telling me that his emotions towards me had increased....well to me, if he is saying this then he needs to make some decisions.

 

JW, in all fairness to him, he was very torn....at this point I felt our R had gone to the next level (emotional wise).

 

It made me mad, after constantly communicating the fact that he needed to make a decision, that he was not hearing me....so after much stress in other areas I realised I needed and wanted more than what he was able to give and went NC.

 

A couple of months later he called and was separated and so we started to hang out again.

 

Now he is D'ed (just recently, it was a long grueling D) and I see him as my SO....yet have been through much and am not sure right at this moment what I want, but know I will want to marry again...just don't know if he can handle M again....so I might have to roll here soon...who knows when I will be ready...and by the way I have been straight up with him about all my feelings, wants ect.

 

I won't "live" with him or anyone, nor do I want to have intimate relations until M....he might not be able to handle my views and I respect that....I tell him to find someone more on his line of thinking then...thanks for listening JW...