Could do with some insight...again!

[NoIDidn't]

Well, let me tell you that by not responding, you have made them both look and feel really stupid. Keep up the good work. They shouldn't be contacting you at all.

 

I disagree. Considering he warned her that its coming, he could be under the impression that she is "laying low" until he contacts her again. His W may be watching his cell for when that "lying woman" tries to contact her H again.

 

He did warn H4U, so I doubt "they" are sitting anywhere feeling stupid. His W might be feeling stupid for having trusted him and H4U to actually honor NC, though.

[NoIDidn't]

I think you SHOULD react to her texting you this time. you should react by setting her straight, a simple..

 

"if your H no longer wants contact with me, then perhaps he should quit being the one who makes contact. I did NOT phone your H, he phoned me. I am sorry if he has led you to believe otherwise, I will be glad to forward you the portion of my phone bill from that day that shows incoming and outgoing calls."

 

I would think that would do the trick quite nicely. Also, i would forward back to her his text asking you to 'ignore' whatever she sends you.

 

Yeah, but if she does that, she reveals that she's been complicit in lying to his W when she said she wouldn't.

 

It sounds full of bravada and like its "standing up to the big bad BW", but in this case, it only makes the OP look like whatever he is telling his W that she is - like a lying woman that is desperate to get and keep him.

 

Foolish move.

[Angel1111]

I disagree. Considering he warned her that its coming, he could be under the impression that she is "laying low" until he contacts her again. His W may be watching his cell for when that "lying woman" tries to contact her H again.

 

He did warn H4U, so I doubt "they" are sitting anywhere feeling stupid. His W might be feeling stupid for having trusted him and H4U to actually honor NC, though.

 

Despite the crisis that their marriage is in and the arguments they may be having at the moment, they should not be involving her. Period.

 

Actually, if MM has a lick of sense, he'll be under the impression that he has pissed of H4U big-time.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

FA - during our A the phony phone calls were a means to keep her from being suspicious and letting him have some freedom. so it benefitted me for her to *think* he was shutting me out with her by his side. (i realize this is all wrong) but it allowed us to have more time together so i was ok with it.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

oh and FA I agree. If my H cheated I would want it to be worth something! He would need to have some pretty great reason (person) for ruining our marriage...not just someone disposable! To me that would lessen my worth to him.

 

To throw it away for an amazing person, i could see. To throw it all away for a meaningless night in the sack...not that would make ME feel less of a person.

[NoIDidn't]

I know many BW will defend his W here and I will accept that but I couldn't do it and would not. It is humiliating and it feels like being gang-jumped. It's two against one. I anticipate some BW saying it was two against one during the A but I beg to differ. HE did the cheating against her during the A. Had he been cheating with porn she wouldn't have made him call the director of the porn flick in front of her while she listened on the other line. Besides, it was humiliating enough getting caught so forcing him to make that call was an unneccessary extra act of humiliation.

 

I would NEVER have made my H do something like this. Another site I used to post on was big on No Contact Letters. All to juvenile to me to make my H write and sign a letter that I needed to "approve". I am NOT his mother OR his boss. He would have to willingly comply with my request of NC. Not be demanded to comply with it. I got married to be a partner, not a warden.

 

I can't imagine how hard it is for a BW to do this, but I refused to sink to this level. I am an all NC person, unless I need an answer. I truly believe in giving people enough rope....

[NoIDidn't]

Despite the crisis that their marriage is in and the arguments they may be having at the moment, they should not be involving her. Period.

 

Actually, if MM has a lick of sense, he'll be under the impression that he has pissed of H4U big-time.

 

What you say would make sense IF HE hadn't been the one to call H4U and WARN her.

 

I think you are subtly saying "they" when you mean "her". But "she" isn't the one initiating contact with H4U, "he" is.

 

If H4U truly didn't want to be involved, she wouldn't be. She wouldn't be wondering why his W can't tell an incoming call from an outgoing one. She wouldn't have been bothered about his "warning". And she wouldn't even BE in the position to be getting such a warning.

 

Telling her anything else, IMO, is validating her excuses. She put herself directly in front of this bus. Every single time she doesn't tell him to shove off, she passively sits in front of that bus. And he just keeps making passes over her. While she blames his W for it. Can't she see that she is being played BY HIM to get more of HIS W's attention? He's never had it so good. His W wanting to fight for his lousy behind. His "former" OW wanting to save him from his warden. Its pathetic and transparent on his part.

[Fallen Angel]

Yeah, but if she does that, she reveals that she's been complicit in lying to his W when she said she wouldn't.

 

It sounds full of bravada and like its "standing up to the big bad BW", but in this case, it only makes the OP look like whatever he is telling his W that she is - like a lying woman that is desperate to get and keep him.

 

Foolish move.

 

Wow, really?? When I wrote that it was about standing up to the MM, not allowing him to put the blame on her for his choices. How did you get that anything I said was "standing up to the big bad BW" and where are you quoting me as saying that, because i have NEVER called anyone a "big bad BW" EVER!!!

[NoIDidn't]

I think you SHOULD react to her texting you this time. you should react by setting her straight, a simple..

 

"if your H no longer wants contact with me, then perhaps he should quit being the one who makes contact. I did NOT phone your H, he phoned me. I am sorry if he has led you to believe otherwise, I will be glad to forward you the portion of my phone bill from that day that shows incoming and outgoing calls."

 

I would think that would do the trick quite nicely. Also, i would forward back to her his text asking you to 'ignore' whatever she sends you.

 

Wow, really?? When I wrote that it was about standing up to the MM, not allowing him to put the blame on her for his choices. How did you get that anything I said was "standing up to the big bad BW" and where are you quoting me as saying that, because i have NEVER called anyone a "big bad BW" EVER!!!

 

FA, nice try, but not this time. Everything in your post was to "her". Nothing suggests that you were ever thinking of standing up to the MM.

 

And just because you didn't actually say "Big bad BW" doesn't mean that your post didn't have that general feel. "if you H no longer wants contact with me" has the distinct ring of make "her" angry, not put "him" in his place.

 

Do you always stand up to one person by invoking another?

[mybrowneyedgirl]

somehow through this discussion i had a moment of clarity.

 

(sorry for the tj here). but i have found myself wanting to blame her for the repeated contact. the NC letters, the phone calls etc. and she wants to blame ME for all of the affair. for ruining her M, etc.

 

whats ridiculous is that we both should be blaming HIM! he cheated on her, not me, he is the one who made the phoney NC calls/emails not her. HE is to blame, but somehow its easier to blame the woman on the other side of the situation.

 

wouldnt it be wonderful if we could both get some courage and place the blame where it is due - on HIM who is playing us both!

[Fallen Angel]

I think you SHOULD react to her texting you this time. you should react by setting her straight, a simple..

 

"if your H no longer wants contact with me, then perhaps he should quit being the one who makes contact. I did NOT phone your H, he phoned me. I am sorry if he has led you to believe otherwise, I will be glad to forward you the portion of my phone bill from that day that shows incoming and outgoing calls."

 

I would think that would do the trick quite nicely. Also, i would forward back to her his text asking you to 'ignore' whatever she sends you.

 

I put EVERY BIT OF IT ON HIM!!! And you point out that I said he was her H?? wtf??

 

FA' date=' nice try, but not this time. Everything in your post was to "her". [b']Nothing suggests that you were ever thinking of standing up to the MM.[/b]

 

And just because you didn't actually say "Big bad BW" doesn't mean that your post didn't have that general feel. "if you H no longer wants contact with me" has the distinct ring of make "her" angry, not put "him" in his place.

 

Do you always stand up to one person by invoking another?

 

I get that you do not agree with the fact that I refuse to sit on here and whine and cry and say that My MM is a horrible horrible person and that all BWs are godess like women who should be bowed down to in my unworthiness, but get the hell over yourself. I will not stand by and let you put words into my mouth. You and your friends here have been picking at me since I decided that I was going to enjoy my relationship and all that it offers me, instead of bemoan what it does not offer me. W

Edited February 2, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[norajane]

somehow through this discussion i had a moment of clarity.

 

wouldnt it be wonderful if we could both get some courage and place the blame where it is due - on HIM who is playing us both!

I keep trying to tell people that. HE is the problem and they're both better off without HIM. HE is NOT worth it because he treats women who love him like crap, and he has for the entire duration of the affair since he doesn't care that he is hurting TWO women while HE sits pretty with both of them holding onto hope...hope for what? To end up with HIM?

 

I guess there's no way to get that across no matter how many times someone says it. You have to reach that epiphany on your own.

[NoIDidn't]

somehow through this discussion i had a moment of clarity.

 

(sorry for the tj here). but i have found myself wanting to blame her for the repeated contact. the NC letters, the phone calls etc. and she wants to blame ME for all of the affair. for ruining her M, etc.

 

whats ridiculous is that we both should be blaming HIM! he cheated on her, not me, he is the one who made the phoney NC calls/emails not her. HE is to blame, but somehow its easier to blame the woman on the other side of the situation.

 

wouldnt it be wonderful if we could both get some courage and place the blame where it is due - on HIM who is playing us both!

 

He might be playing you both, but both you and H4U seem to be willingly waiting for his next play and however he makes it look like its "her" fault.

 

Just stop playing the game. These guys have you wrapped around their fingers, it seems. You can't blame him for everything, even though its clear that he is the originator of this game. Accept that you fell for it and started blaming her, just like he wanted you too (mind you). It keeps you from looking at his role in this.

 

These guys are loving having two women think they can get a step ahead of the other without considering who is feeding them the details (the lying guy playing on both teams!!!!).

[NoIDidn't]

I get that you do not agree with the fact that I refuse to sit on here and whine and cry and say that My MM is a horrible horrible person and that all BWs are godess like women who should be bowed down to in my unworthiness, but get the hell over yourself. I will not stand by and let you put words into my mouth. You and your friends here have been picking at me since I decided that I was going to enjoy my relationship and all that it offers me, instead of bemoan what it does not offer me. Well, hate to burst your bubble, but you are picking on the wrong cookie this time. you can bully other people, but i have spent a lifetime being bullied by the best, and you are far from earning that title!

 

What does this have to do with anything I said? Anything?

 

You must be going through a lot to be lashing out at me for not agreeing that you were somehow standing up to him by telling her to basically "control" her H.

 

Forgive me for feeling that standing up to him would have meant telling him to stop involving me in this madness and to stop contacting me INSTEAD of attacking him via his W.

 

Me? A bully? Yeah, I'd laugh at that too.

[Fallen Angel]

What does this have to do with anything I said? Anything?

 

You must be going through a lot to be lashing out at me for not agreeing that you were somehow standing up to him by telling her to basically "control" her H.

 

Forgive me for feeling that standing up to him would have meant telling him to stop involving me in this madness and to stop contacting me INSTEAD of attacking him via his W.

 

Me? A bully? Yeah, I'd laugh at that too.

 

FA' date=' nice try, but not this time. Everything in your post was to "her". Nothing suggests that you were ever thinking of standing up to the MM.[/u']

 

And just because you didn't actually say "Big bad BW" doesn't mean that your post didn't have that general feel. "if you H no longer wants contact with me" has the distinct ring of make "her" angry, not put "him" in his place.

 

Do you always stand up to one person by invoking another?

 

It has everything to do with what you said, because you yet again are trying to twist my words and accuse me of saying something i have never said (or accusing me of implying something I never implied). As to you being a bully, you have been giving it the old college try, but like I said, you don't quite measure up.

 

Post script ~ It amazes me that people who are constantly telling the OW to tell his wife then turn the tables and say tell him not his wife, when the situation in which it would actually be helpful to tell the wife comes along... (confused face here)

Edited February 2, 2010 by Fallen Angel

[pureinheart]

Ok I know I shouldn't be thinking of xMM and his life and TBH I'm not doing to bad really.

Its just when something starts going round my head I nead to get it out and it always helps to get it out on here to you lot:confused:

 

So here goes....he has been coming into work and acting 'normal', getting me coffee, cracking jokes and stuff. He hasn't been going on about his M and how things are at home but he has dropped the odd 'hook' every now and then but at least now I DO see the hooks so I am moving on, even if it is slowly:o

 

Fast forward to Friday night, he rang me(he was off on holiday Saturday morning) he spent most of the call telling me how he wasn't going to forget me while he was away and how he was sure he would be a 'thorn in my side' on Friday when he gets back....yes another 'hook' I see that.

 

Anyway, I woke up on Saturday morning to a text from him saying 'ignore the next text you get from me, W has seen your number in my call list'

 

So Saturday night the text comes......all about how I called him and how HE wants NC, he and his W are making the M work and he is not coming to my office to make things easier for me and HE knows its hard this is for me but its over.

 

Ok so he warned me to ignore this text but how the hell can I, either his W has written it without him knowing what was in it or he has sat there, written it and agreed to send it, the latter is more likely....both are just as bad in my opinion.

 

As far as I know his W hasn't told him she text me about my myspace comment so she is probably thinking that is why I rang(obviously she cant tell incoming & outgoing calls on his phone as he called me) but what is nagging in my head is HE has obviously told her I RANG HIM!! Now that F**ks me right off!!

 

I don't want to get torn apart here, just need to vent a little and wonder if anyone else has had the same sort of thing happen?

 

Hi H4U,

 

I'm sure SO did this, and there are times that it is hard to think that this might have happened...I try to remember that the past is the past. I am sure his did talk crap about me for whatever reason.

 

This situation is very controlling to me....sometimes the discovery of an A is just another excuse to manipulate and control, and this can go either way by the way....anyway IF she is using this to control him, to hold something over his head it will not last very long, men do not operate very well under these conditions.

 

H4U....you really do not know what is going on behind the scenes here, all is just speculation....even the words that have come out of both of their mouths. There could be manipulations that he has never discussed with you and vice versa....

 

Speculation: He could be playing the "game" for a reason unknown to you, and it could bve a very good reason....and this goes the other way too.

 

If you can, detach yourself, don't make any decisions one way or the other....the NC whatever....the reason I say this as whatever will be will be....I know this is different from my reply to you in your other post...although with what you have said in this post, I am thinking there is much you don't know about with these two individuals.

[White Flower]

Thing I do not understand is, why a BW would want to hear her H say or do bad things to his OW. I, as a BW, would be able to understand the affair more readily if I thought the OW was a wonderful amazing person, that he thought of as being on par with me. If he was willing to risk me for someone who he thought of as trash, or someone that he thought of as easily disposable, that would hurt me worse. *shrug* But that is just me i guess.

No, you make an excellent point.

 

Why would she think so low of her H to choose to be with someone low? I know all about the 'affairing down' syndrome and do believe in SOME cases that happens, but this is a great man who has done great things! She shouldn't be so quick to persuade him that I am trashy because I called him or answered his calls but that is exactly what she tried to do immediately.

 

I feel sorry for her, actually. To have to try to disparage me without actually knowing me. Kinda desperate.

 

I am glad your MM refused to do that to you. I was actually shocked that mine did this. He was smart to go into counseling-that is his saving grace.

[White Flower]

I would NEVER have made my H do something like this. Another site I used to post on was big on No Contact Letters. All to juvenile to me to make my H write and sign a letter that I needed to "approve". I am NOT his mother OR his boss. He would have to willingly comply with my request of NC. Not be demanded to comply with it. I got married to be a partner, not a warden.

 

I can't imagine how hard it is for a BW to do this, but I refused to sink to this level. I am an all NC person, unless I need an answer. I truly believe in giving people enough rope....

Amen, halleluiah!

 

I keep referring to her as his mother. I feel sorry for anyone who needs to babysit their husband, I really do. They are not equal partners, they are mother and son.

[White Flower]

somehow through this discussion i had a moment of clarity.

 

(sorry for the tj here). but i have found myself wanting to blame her for the repeated contact. the NC letters, the phone calls etc. and she wants to blame ME for all of the affair. for ruining her M, etc.

 

whats ridiculous is that we both should be blaming HIM! he cheated on her, not me, he is the one who made the phoney NC calls/emails not her. HE is to blame, but somehow its easier to blame the woman on the other side of the situation.

 

wouldnt it be wonderful if we could both get some courage and place the blame where it is due - on HIM who is playing us both!

This is why I have a problem with her trying to convince him that I am trashy because I entertained him on the phone or whatever she thinks we did. HER H made the vows but she blames ME for 'taking him away'. People, we just can't take anyone away from anyone else. It's called FREE WILL.

 

Putting the blame on him forces her to deal with her M in an effective way. That makes for a higher risk. She risks facing the fact that he really may not love her and then risks the fact that she may lose him.

 

I guess it's just easier to criticize the OW and hope her H is influenced by that. In her mind, perhaps over time, he will eventually believe it.

[pureinheart]

somehow through this discussion i had a moment of clarity.

 

(sorry for the tj here). but i have found myself wanting to blame her for the repeated contact. the NC letters, the phone calls etc. and she wants to blame ME for all of the affair. for ruining her M, etc.

 

whats ridiculous is that we both should be blaming HIM! he cheated on her, not me, he is the one who made the phoney NC calls/emails not her. HE is to blame, but somehow its easier to blame the woman on the other side of the situation.

 

wouldnt it be wonderful if we could both get some courage and place the blame where it is due - on HIM who is playing us both!

 

MBEG....had to comment on this (bold) SO's exW in one of her "love letters" to me blamed me for everything wrong in "their" M, I ruined their M also....I realised at this point I was not dealing with a rational individual on any level...just a person looking for someone to blame.

[bittersweet memories]

 

Post script ~ It amazes me that people who are constantly telling the OW to tell his wife then turn the tables and say tell him not his wife, when the situation in which it would actually be helpful to tell the wife comes along... (confused face here)

 

Thats right.. Im with you on this one. Good point!

[pureinheart]

This is why I have a problem with her trying to convince him that I am trashy because I entertained him on the phone or whatever she thinks we did. HER H made the vows but she blames ME for 'taking him away'. People, we just can't take anyone away from anyone else. It's called FREE WILL.

 

Putting the blame on him forces her to deal with her M in an effective way. That makes for a higher risk. She risks facing the fact that he really may not love her and then risks the fact that she may lose him.

 

I guess it's just easier to criticize the OW and hope her H is influenced by that. In her mind, perhaps over time, he will eventually believe it.

 

This only causes the MM to run even further from the M if they have not already run all the first.

 

WF, I am quite offended by her referring to you as "trashy". You are anything but "trashy"...does this make one feel better about "themselves"? Does this elevate one to a higher level?????

 

"Taking him away"...is he a posession? Almost as if I were to walk into your home and take your TV or something.

 

Some may be able to manipulate another into "staying" against their will...yes there may not be bars like a jail....these are the invisble bars that in my opinion are much worse and very evil....WF you are very precious.

[White Flower]

This only causes the MM to run even further from the M if they have not already run all the first.

 

WF, I am quite offended by her referring to you as "trashy". You are anything but "trashy"...does this make one feel better about "themselves"? Does this elevate one to a higher level?????

 

"Taking him away"...is he a posession? Almost as if I were to walk into your home and take your TV or something.

 

Some may be able to manipulate another into "staying" against their will...yes there may not be bars like a jail....these are the invisble bars that in my opinion are much worse and very evil....WF you are very precious.

Thank you pureinheart.

 

I do believe by trashing me people like her believe they are elevating themselves.

 

On many occasions MM has told me that I am so much more sophisticated than her in every way. The thing is, I don't need him to tell me that and I don't need her to be intimidated by that. It just is (to him) and that is the main attraction, I think. She just won't win on that argument alone because I have already proven myself to him.

 

I can't blame her for being angry, I would be too. But I don't have to be happy about the poor tactics she is taking right now to border patrol him. You can't see the gun, but it's there.

[jwi71]

I don't even know if it is a reconciliation in her mind as he never admitted a PA and she never called me to dig further. I wish she had. She only thinks she put an end to a few calls during each week.

 

It is. I say that with a good amount of certainty - for reasons that will be clear below.

 

I don't know if you ever received a NC call like that, but it IS humiliating on both ends. Probably more for him than for myself as I only received it in a voicemail.

 

WF, I'm a BH...not a WS so I've never received such a call.

 

I have demanded one though. My goal was NOT humiliation of anyone but ending the contact and beginning to kill the A. To begin reconciliation.

 

So I do not think the intent was to humiliate you. The fact you felt humiliated comes from within and bears some examination on your part.

 

I know of it (act of reconciliation), but do not believe in obtaining it this way.

 

I agree. But I think its one of the steps a BS feels he.she must make. The call should be voluntary and honest...no coerced and "unwanted".

 

He doesn't take 'the out' because there is unfinished business in his head and perhaps with us. He is in counseling figuring that out right now.

 

Fair enough. But I think the cards are stacked against you because he did it. To me, it hints that he still has investment in her and the M. Enough to make the call.

[SoulSearch_CO]

It's pretty easy to change your number with the cell phone company. If you didn't crave the drama, you would have done it, already.