Why do men 37 yrs and up start to look like my grandpa?

[tami-chan]

Check out Sen-Elect Scott Brown he is 50 years old and STILL looks smokin' hot! and look at his wife....really blah..but I checked out a video of her back in the day for some rocker dude..she looked really hot...but not anymore... Men look better in time, more distinguished and more confident and thus more attractive....women, well, sorry but unless we make drastic changes (with the help of surgical and chemical means) we just became old hags...except me, I am Japanese and we do not look our age....I am 90 years old and look twenty-something..

[BG1985]

You may be right in that case, Tami-Chan. However, I think it is unfair to use actors and politicians for the aging comparison. It's their job to look good and young. The point of this thread is why your average woman ages better than your average man. Actors and politicians have to maintain a certain physical image to get jobs or win elections. The average woman in the US feels an incentive to look good while the average male seems unwilling to look good or is ignorant of what style is.

[silverfish]

I went to a party on the w/end, and the age range of people there was mostly 30-55. Most were couples in well established relationships as it was a birthday party.

 

The women spent a lot of time complimenting eachother and asking where the others had got their outfits and so on. They had all dressed mostly to impress / compete with eachother I'd say, since they were already attached.

 

I was complimented by one lady, & I like getting compliments from women. Because its sort of 'neutral' and theres no ulterior motive, it feels a bit more genuine.

 

As for the men, what I noticed is that they mostly seemed comfortable in their own skin, and not at all concerned with the way they looked. There was one single man and he had more effort with his appearance than the other guys, and he had a lot of women competing for his attention (yes, mostly the ones in relationships!).

 

So, maybe men in a long term relationship don't make as much effort? I know that most women continue to make an effort whether in an R or not, maybe that has something to do with this theory

[Twenty-ten]

You may be right in that case, Tami-Chan. However, I think it is unfair to use actors and politicians for the aging comparison. It's their job to look good and young. The point of this thread is why your average woman ages better than your average man. Actors and politicians have to maintain a certain physical image to get jobs or win elections. The average woman in the US feels an incentive to look good while the average male seems unwilling to look good or is ignorant of what style is.

 

 

Exactly right. George Clooney looks great and he is way past 40, so did Sean Connery. How many men age like them?

 

Try John Goodman, is more like it, as a fair representation of "distinguished" men and how they age in our society:laugh:

 

 

1. You claimed that a sexist attitude in advertising is what led to the prominence of young, beautiful women therein, and stated that once that sexism is gone, young beautiful women would not be used in advertising.

 

2. I countered that because the female body is symbolic of sexual fertility and reproductive sexuality itself, and that the male body is not, that beautiful young women taking a primary role in advertising is a natural occurence, not some sexist machination

 

I said NO such thing. I said that over the years the overuse of youthful sexy women in media, the double standards women are subjected to of having a limited shelf life in the media vs men's is what leads to older women feeling pressure to look better and to retain their youthful look. The use of young beautiful sexual women in the media is only there to appeal to men, women give a rat's ass if they see a beautiful young woman endorsing a product, or delivering the news, we don't respond to it. MEN do.

 

The latest craze is sexy women who can deliver finance news in the media. The "money babes" is what men want.

 

 

It was in response to your claim that men in movies are used far more then women after a certain age because men age better. That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard, because there is no reason why they should keep using men in movies well past their prime when they pull the plug on many female actors who are just as good and aged equally as the men did.

For the longest time in movies the woman would be cast consdierably younger than the male role, why? There are no women the age of Jack Nicholson who can play his wife? Sure but there goes your male audience for your romantic comedy if you don't cast him with a female 40 yrs his junior.

 

 

The only reason it is that way is because Hollywood has been managed by men for the tastes of men. A lot of the drama made by cinematographers made to appeal to women wouldn't even have the box of the movie looked at if they didn't throw in a Megan Fox character in there to entice the male population. I am not the one who is making up that men's response to sex far outweighs how women respond to it, don't even try to tell me it is my imagination.

 

Of course I already said this loud and clear earlier in the thread but you dismissed the content then and are trying to now. You try to detract from my points and from having to put forth a substantial point yourself by claiming my comments are a jumbled mess. Your style is typical of those who are filled with hot air and who have nothing of substance to deliver.

 

Is that clear for you now? Or are you going to try to twist my words again so that you can inject your pejorative discourse rather than debate the actual points?

[thegreatmoose]

Exactly. Women want to look in the mirror and feel pretty or they do it based on what they think men want.

You make another incorrect generalization about women. Some women may do it for the mirror or other women, but I think most do it becuase many men respond to it positively.

 

If one woman takes 10 minutes to get ready and another an hour, which one do you think most men are going to be more attracted to?

Edited February 8, 2010 by thegreatmoose

[Twenty-ten]

 

So, maybe men in a long term relationship don't make as much effort? I know that most women continue to make an effort whether in an R or not, maybe that has something to do with this theory

 

Yes that is a good example. That is exactly what I am talking about Silverfish.

[Twenty-ten]

 

If one woman takes 10 minutes to get ready and another an hour, which one do you think most men are going to be more attracted to?

 

 

Oh he'll say the 10 min one, just to be a classic contrarian!

 

I am sure most guys do a double take to this second right hand picture over the left hand one yet it is the exact same woman.

[Green]

They wouldn't be talking to you if they didn't think you look good. The specific men you are talking to might have aged bad. But in general because of testostorone I guess men age better then women. But women live longer!

[sumdude]

Ok Sumdude those are some really good points you brought, up. Advertising preys on everyone, no one can say they never ever fell to the effects of advertising in one way or another we all have and do.

 

Fine if advertising preys on people's insecurities and buying is just to calm those same insecurities why even pursue a financially successful career? Why go for money? Who needs money if you don't need things to fit in socially and to feel good? If you need nothing to feel good why do you have anything?

 

Thee answers are both simple and complex.

 

A) To attract the best mate possible. For the same reason certain birds compete by building better nests. Why male peacocks with the most outrageous plumage attract the best mates. etc etc etc. A man who has the excess means to buy a $70k sedan rather than the $20k one which has the same utility proves socially that he has more resources to raise children.

 

Women dress the way they do to accentuate fertility traits. To show youth, health and the ability to bear the most children safely.

 

Historically women want to mate with the best provider with the highest social status. However many times she may also find other candidates on the side who appeal purely genetically. This is to ensure the best chance for healthy children and a broader gene pool.

 

Just because in the last 50 or so years many gender roles have changed? Doesn't change millions of years of evolution and the fact the we have these reproductive drives ruling us at least subconsciously.

 

Now that women have more means to provide the rules have changes in some parts of the world. They don't need men the same way they used to. Which is why we have so much trouble in gender identity and relations right now.

 

So in a way.. everything we do is about advertising.

 

B) On the other hand why are there ascetics? The one thing we know about homo sapiens that is different (to our knowledge) from any other life form? Our spiritual side and self knowledge. The knowledge that we have an animal side but there's something else to us somehow. To get to much further on this is way beyond the scope of this thread.

Edited February 8, 2010 by sumdude

[BG1985]

It makes sense for men to keep up their appearance for reasons other than attracting women. I have a book called, "More Sex is Safer Sex," and it was written by an economist who writes that, based on looks, men are discriminated more than women in the job market with respect to salary, promotions, and job offers. There is a 10% income disparity between ugly/attractive men and a 5% income disparity between ugly/attractive women. However it does state that ugly women are less likely to enter the work force than ugly men, which skews the statistics against ugly men. It also states that, with everything else held constant, adding an inch of height to men adds roughly $1000 additional income, i.e., a 6'0" male makes $6000 more per year than a 5'6" male. However this could also come from the fact that taller men tend to be more confident.

[Maxxx]

Why is it that men over 35 start to look really old. Men over 40, forget it. I have been contacted by ex-boyfriends on facebook and I cannot believe how old they look and they are barely over 40. They are shocked at how I haven't changed much since we were in our 20's (their words not mine) and yet I don't even know what to say back. I've put on 10 lbs in 15 yrs yet some of them have put on like 60lbs they don't even look like the same men. Another one is bald and has a grey beard and he is only 40. I could barely make the connection when he contacted me.

 

Do I lie and tell them they look good when they clearly don't? What do you say to someone who looks old and unattractive?

 

What is up with men over 40 looking like a much older, sometimes very overweight, man? 40 is not old, so why do women still look considerably better than men at 40 for the most part?

 

 

Hey! I am almost 40 and bald but have not put on 60 lbs. As a matter of fact I have lost some lbs..... I think I have aged well..... And anyway whats wrong with being bald? LOL

 

 

 

I have seen some of my old girl firnds on face book that have gotten fat and dumpy also... so it happens to both males and females...... I am shocked at how big some of my old girlfriends have gotten some are so big I would not give them the time of day if I met them now.....

[meerkat stew]

It was in response to your claim that men in movies are used far more then women after a certain age because men age better.

 

I stated that male leads have a longer career than female leads generally, and that this involved less dollars spent in appearance maintenance than on women. It is a valid example of how men generally do age better than women. Leading actors are valuable brands, and remain valuable so long as the brand sells. There is no sexist manipulation by men in that simple equation as much as you would like there to be.

 

Is that clear for you now? Or are you going to try to twist my words again so that you can inject your pejorative discourse rather than debate the actual points?

 

There is no "actual point" anywhere in this thread, at least of your making. That men age "better than" women outwardly and generally is a plain medical fact, due to reasons I set out very clearly, that you didn't want to address or discuss. Not going to repeat them. That women outlive men generally is also a plain medical fact.

 

The thread topic is offensive, your early snarking at posters who did anything other than agree with you is offensive, you are incapable of responding in a rational way to posters who disagree with you, and instead make all sorts of assumptions about such posters that lie far outside what they have posted here.

 

Based on what you type here, very glad the guy in the "dad jeans" and "bad shirt" managed to escape you, good for him.

[Twenty-ten]

Thee answers are both simple and complex.

 

A) To attract the best mate possible. For the same reason certain birds compete by building better nests. Why male peacocks with the most outrageous plumage attract the best mates. etc etc etc. A man who has the excess means to buy a $70k sedan rather than the $20k one which has the same utility proves socially that he has more resources to raise children.

 

Women dress the way they do to accentuate fertility traits. To show youth, health and the ability to bear the most children safely.

 

Historically women want to mate with the best provider with the highest social status. However many times she may also find other candidates on the side who appeal purely genetically. This is to ensure the best chance for healthy children and a broader gene pool.

 

Just because in the last 50 or so years many gender roles have changed? Doesn't change millions of years of evolution and the fact the we have these reproductive drives ruling us at least subconsciously.

 

 

Yes the intrinsic value of attraction in animals follows that premise you described. In the animal kingdom males are the ones with the big tusks, and opulent plumage which are more colourful and ornamented because the males are the ones who are to make themselves attractive in order to entice the females since the males are the ones who are mostly interested in mating. The females tend to be camouflaged since in a lot of species after they bear their offspring they are left to do it alone by the males. So they need to be camouflaged with their surroundings in order to keep their babies safe from predators. So where the human male gets that women should sexually entice them as we see is in advertising and other forms that propagate this ideal that females should be youthful and sexually enticing, is strictly a human invention. A male one at that.

 

 

 

Now that women have more means to provide the rules have changes in some parts of the world. They don't need men the same way they used to. Which is why we have so much trouble in gender identity and relations right now.

 

So in a way.. everything we do is about advertising.

 

True the playing field has equaled out and women are expecting the same standards that men hold women to. Hence my thread topic.

 

 

B) On the other hand why are there ascetics? The one thing we know about homo sapiens that is different (to our knowledge) from any other life form? Our spiritual side and self knowledge. The knowledge that we have an animal side but there's something else to us somehow. To get to much further on this is way beyond the scope of this thread.

 

Why are there ascetics? For the same reason that opulence, greed, capitalism, communism exist. Ascetics is a form of extremism much like communism which altruistically promotes egalitarianism yet it is a well known fact that in the case of communism there is no sense of purity. Equality is only to be had by those without power, while those in power do not adhere to the same standards.

 

Humans are destructive by nature so we cannot live in a world of pure ascetics therefore it is considered a niche doctrine not an "ideal" one.

[stillafool]

Thee answers are both simple and complex.

 

A) To attract the best mate possible. For the same reason certain birds compete by building better nests. Why male peacocks with the most outrageous plumage attract the best mates. etc etc etc. A man who has the excess means to buy a $70k sedan rather than the $20k one which has the same utility proves socially that he has more resources to raise children.

 

Women dress the way they do to accentuate fertility traits. To show youth, health and the ability to bear the most children safely.

 

Historically women want to mate with the best provider with the highest social status. However many times she may also find other candidates on the side who appeal purely genetically. This is to ensure the best chance for healthy children and a broader gene pool.

 

Just because in the last 50 or so years many gender roles have changed? Doesn't change millions of years of evolution and the fact the we have these reproductive drives ruling us at least subconsciously.

 

Now that women have more means to provide the rules have changes in some parts of the world. They don't need men the same way they used to. Which is why we have so much trouble in gender identity and relations right now.

 

So in a way.. everything we do is about advertising.

 

B) On the other hand why are there ascetics? The one thing we know about homo sapiens that is different (to our knowledge) from any other life form? Our spiritual side and self knowledge. The knowledge that we have an animal side but there's something else to us somehow. To get to much further on this is way beyond the scope of this thread.

 

 

Well how does this relate to people who have no desires for children?

[mem11363]

I picked obesity as a metric for assessing how well we age because it is quantitative and it is accurately tracked. And even though I think the OP framed her post in a fairly lame manner - she mentioned fat several times as a factor in her argument about men aging worse then women.

 

At a glance, Americans now correlate obesity and age since obesity rates steadily rise as we age.

 

And American women over 40 are substantially more obese than their male counterparts. According to the Journal of American Medical Association: JAMA, 34% of men (40-59) are obese and 38% of women in that age group are obese.

 

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/303/3/235/JOC90148T2

 

 

 

I stated that male leads have a longer career than female leads generally, and that this involved less dollars spent in appearance maintenance than on women. It is a valid example of how men generally do age better than women. Leading actors are valuable brands, and remain valuable so long as the brand sells. There is no sexist manipulation by men in that simple equation as much as you would like there to be.

 

 

 

There is no "actual point" anywhere in this thread, at least of your making. That men age "better than" women outwardly and generally is a plain medical fact, due to reasons I set out very clearly, that you didn't want to address or discuss. Not going to repeat them. That women outlive men generally is also a plain medical fact.

 

The thread topic is offensive, your early snarking at posters who did anything other than agree with you is offensive, you are incapable of responding in a rational way to posters who disagree with you, and instead make all sorts of assumptions about such posters that lie far outside what they have posted here.

 

Based on what you type here, very glad the guy in the "dad jeans" and "bad shirt" managed to escape you, good for him.

[Twenty-ten]

It makes sense for men to keep up their appearance for reasons other than attracting women. I have a book called, "More Sex is Safer Sex," and it was written by an economist who writes that, based on looks, men are discriminated more than women in the job market with respect to salary, promotions, and job offers. There is a 10% income disparity between ugly/attractive men and a 5% income disparity between ugly/attractive women. However it does state that ugly women are less likely to enter the work force than ugly men, which skews the statistics against ugly men. It also states that, with everything else held constant, adding an inch of height to men adds roughly $1000 additional income, i.e., a 6'0" male makes $6000 more per year than a 5'6" male. However this could also come from the fact that taller men tend to be more confident.

 

 

Would definitely agree with that. Have read enough about how attractiveness and height for men in the corporate world are directly linked to their success levels. For women attractiveness also plays a big role in terms of opening more doors.

[Twenty-ten]

I picked obesity as a metric for assessing how well we age because it is quantitative and it is accurately tracked. And even though I think the OP framed her post in a fairly lame manner - she mentioned fat several times as a factor in her argument about men aging worse then women.

 

At a glance, Americans now correlate obesity and age since obesity rates steadily rise as we age.

 

And American women over 40 are substantially more obese than their male counterparts. According to the Journal of American Medical Association: JAMA, 34% of men (40-59) are obese and 38% of women in that age group are obese.

 

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/303/3/235/JOC90148T2

 

 

Ok and? I have no doubt that the USA has the highest number of obese females.

 

1. The level of obesity in females still means little for the topic at hand, men can be one third the body of a woman and still look like a grandpa. Some overweight women actually look younger than their skinny counterparts.

 

2. I don't live in the USA so my opinion of what I observe around me still holds strong.

[BG1985]

Would definitely agree with that. Have read enough about how attractiveness and height for men in the corporate world are directly linked to their success levels. For women attractiveness also plays a big role in terms of opening more doors.

 

The big thing that got me what I had cited was the evidence showing that men, moreso than women, face discrimination in the job market due to looks. As shallow as it sounds, physical appearance can be a pretty good indicator of how a person is as a whole. If a person doesn't care about their outer appearance, how do you know they care about other aspects of their life which would contribute to their job? Obesity is perceived to stem from a lack of discipline. If someone looks disorganized in their appearance, how do you know they're not disorganized in other aspects of their life. A person who makes it a point to look good knows that he/she is judged on appearance.

[sumdude]

So they need to be camouflaged with their surroundings in order to keep their babies safe from predators. So where the human male gets that women should sexually entice them as we see is in advertising and other forms that propagate this ideal that females should be youthful and sexually enticing, is strictly a human invention. A male one at that.

 

You have to look at human history before industrialization. Before birth control, before huge city-state communities where protection is taken care of by the community at large. Pregnant woman were very challenged to take care of themselves and are not as physically powerful. Human children take years to become self sufficient and require a lot of care and protection. Males would do the more risky activities to provide. Hunting, protecting their tribe/clan from other tribes fighting over resources .. and women. In fact men were more expendable. Women would take care of the young and tend to the homes and fields while the men were away. It was the best way to split responsibilities.

 

It's no human invention in the terms that somewhere, someone decided it to be that way. Scientifically it was in the best interest for the propagation and survival of the species. Obviously it worked quite well since we are at the top of the food chain now.

 

So yes, women would entice the more powerful men in order to gain better protection for themselves and their offspring. This hasn't changed a bit if you look deep enough. C'mon, what women doesn't want Mr. Tall, dark handsome, smart with a healthy bank account and high social status?

What man doesn't want a young, sweet, compassionate woman?

 

Women had as much to do with that working model as men. If they didn't we wouldn't have survived.

 

But to the original post and topic. Being 41, single again and looking at my peers. I see a pretty even split as far as who 'looks' better between the men and women.

Edited February 8, 2010 by sumdude

[Twenty-ten]

So yes, women would entice the more powerful men in order to gain better protection for themselves and their offspring. This hasn't changed a bit if you look deep enough. C'mon, what women doesn't want Mr. Tall, dark handsome, smart with a healthy bank account and high social status?

What man doesn't want a young, sweet, compassionate woman?

 

 

Sure women want that, I would agree.

 

So then would you agree that women needn't look any further than to use their own sexuality, youth and beauty to entice the best men around?

If that is the case then why should an attractive youthful looking woman settle for the grandpa looking man then?

 

Who sets up advertising so that youthful hot women are the center of attention, and who is that designed for?

 

I think you agree with my point that advertising and the media is geared towards the needs of men, it's not because men age better that women have a shelf life it is because men understand perfectly the power that sex and youth in females has over other men.

 

So who came up with the concept then women standing in front of the mirror wishing they had bigger boobs, just "because" or was it the fact that men propagate this sexual ideal?

[Twenty-ten]

sumdude judging by the snippet of your hair and eye picture, I have no trouble believing and have a feeling you still look pretty damn good for 41.

[Chicago_Guy]

Oh he'll say the 10 min one, just to be a classic contrarian!

 

I am sure most guys do a double take to this second right hand picture over the left hand one yet it is the exact same woman.

 

That photo has very obviously been airbrushed! I don't think that any amount of makeup could remove all of that woman's freckles or change the shape of her nose.

[Twenty-ten]

That photo has very obviously been airbrushed! I don't think that any amount of makeup could remove all of that woman's freckles or change the shape of her nose.

 

 

You'd be surprised, they have makeup to cover up any imperfection, they can cover up tattoos for films and tv spots with makeup. I am sure she can cover freckles.

Before shoots being airbrushed, they did it all solely with make-up.

 

But even if it is airbrushed do you think it changes her drastically to the point that you would be comparing to entirely different women? The point was to compare the same woman done up vs not done up.

[Woggle]

The one on the right is not that attractive to me. I really do not find fake women appealing in any way.

 

You can say that advertising is geared towards men but how many commercials do you see where a man is portrayed as an idiot. Men might objectify women in commercials but women are downright hateful towards men yet they see no problem with it whatsoever.

[Twenty-ten]

You can say that advertising is geared towards men but how many commercials do you see where a man is portrayed as an idiot. Men might objectify women in commercials but women are downright hateful towards men yet they see no problem with it whatsoever.

 

 

Yes, yes yes!!! I could not agree more!!!! It's a real pet peeve of mine I will try to dig up one of the worse ones I have seen as of late that truly irritates me and it makes me feel embarrassed for not only how men are depicted but on how women are utter bitches to their men.

 

It is so far gone the other way now it makes me sick to see this. Honestly there are more commercials I find extremely annoying these days for that very reason you just wrote about than anything else. It is annoying how imbecilic men are portrayed in commercials.

 

 

I do see a huge problem with that an I lose all respect in a brand that uses this formula to promote their goods.