Girls Night Out?

[NervisPervis]

Or is it girl out at night with her “wingman”?

 

I was happy when my wife was able to pull way from her family responsibilities (new mother) and go out for a night of fun with her friends. I’m not crazy about my wife partying at meat markets until 2:00 in the morning, but blowing off steam with a group of friends is tolerable. Only a jealous control freak would have a problem with her going out dancing, right?

 

But what if it’s just her and one married friend? Every time. It’s hasn’t been a huge problem (yet). Less than 10 times in the past 5 months. But it’s always just the two of them even though they have a large group of mutual friends that would make it a more “traditional” girls night out. (OK, ONCE they went out as a group, but you get my point). It’s getting more frequent too.

 

She’s never given me reason to worry. She’d never been the kind of woman who’d look for casual sexual hookups. Even before we started dating. I don’t go clubbing and don’t know how women operate at bars. What they’re looking for? Should I be worried? Is there something going on here ladies? Why always just the two of them?

[1_trick_pony]

Based on what you said, it doesn't sound like anything to worry about.

Coordinating large groups of women is very difficult especially if they've got jobs, husbands, kids etc.

 

It's possible that the two of them are more likely to be approached or hit on by guys in a club when it's just the two of them but guys hit on women in bars and clubs (and vice-versa) that's just the way it is. But then again you can hit on going to pick up diapers. I don't think going out twice a month with you're good friend should be considered a red flag.

 

If you really trust her like you indicate you do, it shouldn't be an issue.

[imagine]

In the old days there would be a coffee club. This is and was a great idea. More experienced women would pass on their knowledge and wisdom to the younger ladies. It helped the ladies download their unique problems to the right sources.

 

Nowadays women unburden their woes to the husband who does not have sufficient female experience. This can tax poor old dad.

 

I cannot imagine how clubbing works for a ladies group. I expect that there will be too many distractions to properly unburden themselves. The situation may lead itself to risque crowd behaviour. I would like to know that there are trustworthy ladies in the group that will give a straight answer.

 

In lieu of this, have a husband pick up the ladies who will report back.

[1_trick_pony]

Buttnutter100,

 

The fact of the matter is one knows for sure if Nervis' wife is having an affair except her, maybe her friend and the other party. I disagree that her going out twice a month with a friend, with her husband's permission is grounds to assume an affair. I think that's jumping to HUGE conclusions.

 

As for where I'm coming from, I have been in long term monogamous relationships in which I have never strayed physically or emotionally. I have been in relationships where both parties understood that we were not being exclusive and I have navigated successfully under the terms and agreements of those relationships too. But I've never been married nor had children.

 

I'm currently in a LT monogamous relationship and I go out with my girl friends regularly to clubs, drink, stay out late, laugh, dance, talk to people, be social and I've never cheated. Some of my friends are married and partake as well (given not as often esp. if they have children). We have a few beers, a few laughs some dancing or pool playing, and then go home to our partners. Sometimes the hubby's or BF's come along, but not often, they get bored when we all get chatty with chick stuff.

 

I would just advise Nervis to get more evidence of wrong doing before drawing up divorce papers. I would be really hurt if my partner accused me of cheating because I go out with my girls, especially that I told him where I was going and who I was with and he consented.

[Bryanp]

I am just curious but how do you think your wife would feel if you went clubbing at a meat market with another buddy until 2pm all the time?

[Dexter Morgan]

Or is it girl out at night with her “wingman”?

 

I was happy when my wife was able to pull way from her family responsibilities (new mother) and go out for a night of fun with her friends. I’m not crazy about my wife partying at meat markets until 2:00 in the morning, but blowing off steam with a group of friends is tolerable. Only a jealous control freak would have a problem with her going out dancing, right?

 

But what if it’s just her and one married friend? Every time. It’s hasn’t been a huge problem (yet). Less than 10 times in the past 5 months. But it’s always just the two of them even though they have a large group of mutual friends that would make it a more “traditional” girls night out. (OK, ONCE they went out as a group, but you get my point). It’s getting more frequent too.

 

She’s never given me reason to worry. She’d never been the kind of woman who’d look for casual sexual hookups. Even before we started dating. I don’t go clubbing and don’t know how women operate at bars. What they’re looking for? Should I be worried? Is there something going on here ladies? Why always just the two of them?

 

been there and done that my man. Just like you, I thought, "what kind of man would be a control freak and have a problem with his woman going out with friends".

 

Well, that still not me, but if "girls nights out" are all too frequent, there is a reason.

 

girls nights out at least once a week usually means, "guys allowed, just not the bf's and husbands".

 

there is a reason your wife is going out more and more often, you have to ask yourself why. And the answer is NOT simply because she likes to be around her friends.

 

Do they go to clubs, bars?

[sid3]

Wow Pervis, this sucks for you. Been there buddy. After nine years and living with my fiance, she started going out with her 'friend', clubs until 2 am. It became more frequent as time went on. At first I didn't mind her spending some time with her friend, it soon became obvious that it was male attention she was interested in. I won't go so far as butternut has, but you should be very worried about your wife's behavior. There not going out to dinner and a movie, clothes shopping or looking for that perfect pair of shoes. Male attention is the only reason any femal goes to clubs until 2 am. I lost the love of my life to the meat market, she even said, I know these guys will never care about me as much as you do and I'll end up getting hurt. Some women just get addicted to the attention and the lusting after them that they expierence in the testosterone club atmosphere. I hope you can turn things around and your wife comes to her senses about what is importsant to her. Hopefully it will be you.

[sid3]

Also, women go out in pairs because it's a known fact that men are less likely to approach a large group of women, two is the best number for optimal attention.

[NervisPervis]

Thanks everyone.

 

Yes Dexter, clubs and bars.

 

Pony

You sound like you want to help, but I think you're a clubbing denier. You like to hang out at bars and will defend your right to do so to the end. Particularly if your party is exposed on a public forum like this, and guys like me, dexter, butt and sid wake up to it and threaten your fun. You deliberately ignored the main point of my question which was the very valid two-girl-crew angle. A couple of the above posts do address it. Read closely.

 

I was key word searching the archive ("wingwoman", I think I got this hit with) and came upon an old post. A young woman in a committed, but long distance relationship was being pressured by a friend to play their "get drunk for $10" game. The $10 presumably for the cover charge. She didn't want to do it. Even once. She felt it was being unfaithful. I don't spy, I just do the bills and know how much money my wife's spending. I don't even see where she spends the $10.

 

ButtM

If it wasn't for the eloquence of your prose and strength of your arguments, which I could not duplicate, I'd swear it was some alternate personality of mine writing that. You read my mind. What blew me away is when you were mentioning classic cheating signs (I know them, I've seen them). But how could you POSSIBLY have guessed she was using the textbook "I don't remember" excuse? I said the oldest event is only 5 months back, but you knew. She's actually using it for events that happened 3 WEEKS ago.

 

Sid, Thanks for the support. Short, consise description of what you went through. I don't know if it's good or bad that my wife is stilll in the denying stage about what she's doing. I'm not sure I want her to look me in the eye and tell me it was the rush of the attention from other men she was looking for.

 

I don't think she's swaped any fluids with anyone. She's JUST NOT that kind of girl. Although small consolation, the worst that could have happened was anything that could happen on a crowded dance floor. Here's what I'm pretty sure she did every time she went out. (From ButtM to pony). I'd only add that I'm sure my wife didn't speak to/dance with ANY women, which I'm sure was his implication as well.

 

"Are you saying you didn't go out and talk to any strange men while you were "out with the girls"? Did you ever flirt? If not, what was the attraction in going out to clubs without your significant other? Please don't be disingenuous. When you danced, you only danced with the girls, never with men? When you talk to people, you only talk to women? Or to men? What was the chatter about? Did men ever hit on you? Did you dress in sexy attractive clothing? Were you flattered when the men hit on you."

 

This Sucks

[Skump]

I was happy when my wife was able to pull way from her family responsibilities (new mother) and go out for a night of fun with her friends. I’m not crazy about my wife partying at meat markets until 2:00 in the morning, but blowing off steam with a group of friends is tolerable. Only a jealous control freak would have a problem with her going out dancing, right?

 

So, on the flip side, if your hobbies included clubbing with a male friend until 2:00, bumping and grinding with random gals, etc., your wife would

 

A) have no rational basis for objecting to this and, as a corollary,

 

B) be a total control freak if she did

 

Let me ask you: How do you think most wives would respond to this argument? How do you think your wife would respond?

[NervisPervis]

Too bad Buttnutters posts were all censored. He was over the top, but had some great points. The moderators must be clubbing deniers like one trick pony. (Buttnutter. If you are like me and type those long posts on another program then copy and paste to the thread, and if you still have them, please PM them to me. I waited a little too long to start printing out this thread).

 

Skump. I'm not sure if I understand your questions. Of COURSE I'm going to say my wife wouldn't like me doing what she's doing. And she would not be a control freak if she forbade it. Through this and some other forums, I've realized there are some women who actually do go to clubs to dance (they just handle it differently than my wife did and the other cheating wived do).

 

Women. If your MAN goes clubbing without you, be VERY afraid. He either likes to dance (in which case he's gay) or he's there for the women. It is the VERY rare straight male that goes clubbing with sex-neutral intentions.

[sid3]

 

This Sucks

 

Your right, it does suck. The question is, what can/are you going to do about it? Have you thought about showing up the next time she heads out with her "friend"? Lurking in the shadows sounds pretty bad, maybe send a friend she doesn't know. IDK. I think you have the right to know what's going on when you've devoted your life to someone and made a life long investment, not to mention your emotional health and well being. I'll probably get flamed for the spying suggestion, then again people hire PIs all the time for stuff like this. If your wife has given you reasons to doubt her truthfulness, then IMO, you need to find a healthy way to reslove what troubles you. People have been known to let something like this ruin their life by turning to drugs, booze and other distructive things. Don't be that guy.

[1_trick_pony]

I was just giving you a different perspective from a woman's point of view. Sadly, it seems most of the people on here have far more experience than me with infidelity. So I guess I have to defer to their expertise.

 

Go spy on your wife who "has never given me reason to worry, never been the kind of woman who’d look for casual sexual hookups". Or you can just skip finding out the truth all together and go straight for the divorce. I mean really, since it is so obvious, no need to waste time.

 

Best of luck you gentlemen, I am going to fulfill my destiny of being a future serial cheater which apparently is inevitable based on the sole fact I am, fun, outgoing and have a social life.

[meerkat stew]

I used to be cool with late night girl's nights out, no longer. This is simple, no monogamous woman in the average, non-swinging marriage would be comfortable with her husband going out twice a month with a possible wingman and closing down bars. None, nada, unless she were having an affair herself and just didn't care what he did.

 

In addition to the obvious issues, there's a community respect issue I haven't seen people touching on, sorry if I missed it. Even in a huge city, the community is smaller than it seems. Is having your spouse out closing down bars the way you want your marriage perceived in the community? Doesn't matter whether it's purely innocent, it is the appearance of impropriety, and rest assured that it is talked about among her acquaintances, probably negatively.

 

At the very least, there needs to be a once a month and in by 11-12 boundary on these outings. Once such a boundary is in place, you will know if something is up as relatives or friends who need overnight help or invite her to stay over will start popping out of the woodwork.

[sid3]

,

 

 

I would just advise Nervis to get more evidence of wrong doing before drawing up divorce papers.

 

Umm, yeah, that's what I suggested. Sorry if spying sounds extreme, but how else does one gather more evidence, I have no expertise in infidelity, only real life experience from having a gf get sucked into the meat market/club lifestyle. Rather than get your panties twisted, maybe you could provide constructive advice to help the OP and leave the snide remarks out. OK, Lady.

[carhill]

What they’re looking for? Should I be worried? Is there something going on here ladies? Why always just the two of them?

 

You'll get various responses. IME, for myself, such evenings were a break from 'reality' and just good clean fun. I assumed (and still do BTW) that a healthy woman in a M would have a similar viewpoint. The volume stated in your OP would concern me. I would expect more of a mix, like luncheons with female friends, or a group of friends going to a concert or festival or similar. Closing a bar or club down essentially every other week would seem, to me, to be excessive, especially if I wasn't invited along at least occasionally.

 

Guess it's time for a conversation about boundaries. Good luck

[1_trick_pony]

Umm, yeah, that's what I suggested. Sorry if spying sounds extreme, but how else does one gather more evidence, I have no expertise in infidelity, only real life experience from having a gf get sucked into the meat market/club lifestyle. Rather than get your panties twisted, maybe you could provide constructive advice to help the OP and leave the snide remarks out. OK, Lady.

 

I was using sarcasam to express a point that I feel is constructive. There is a whole lot to this thread that got deleted, I guess by the moderator. Much of my response was aimed at what was deleted, not your post.

[zwieback.toast]

 

I don’t go clubbing and don’t know how women operate at bars. What they’re looking for?

 

Here's my perspective--

 

Whether it's hanging out in bars, running triathalons, a photography hobby, or whatever, what need is your wife seeking to have fulfilled that she does not feel you/the marriage are providing?

 

"What [is she] looking for?" is exactly the right question to ask.

 

What has your wife said about that?

[Dexter Morgan]

Best of luck you gentlemen, I am going to fulfill my destiny of being a future serial cheater which apparently is inevitable based on the sole fact I am, fun, outgoing and have a social life.

 

 

going out and having a social life once in a while is not a problem and nobody would say that it is.

 

But why go to clubs? just to dance? I know women would say "yes", but I don't think so.

 

If there is Club A with no men attending, and Club B with lots of men, and both clubs where identical in every way, which one would you go to?

 

Point is, if there were no men there, you wouldn't really want to go would you? So why not go out to dinner, movies, shopping? Why go to a club?

 

And the whole thing about a social life, like I said, not a problem...but when it becomes all too frequent and the clubber that starts making it a habit keeps coming home at 3am.....don't be surprised if the locks are changed.

[Dexter Morgan]

what need is your wife seeking to have fulfilled that she does not feel you/the marriage are providing?

 

validation? flirting? contact with men other than her husband? simply likes attention from other guys?

 

If the answer to all of these is "no", then why go to clubs/

 

I know...I know....to dance with the expectation that no other men will saddle up:rolleyes:

[zwieback.toast]

validation? flirting? contact with men other than her husband? simply likes attention from other guys?

 

If the answer to all of these is "no", then why go to clubs/

 

I know...I know....to dance with the expectation that no other men will saddle up:rolleyes:

 

There's more to it than that. It sounds like Nervis has been "groomed" for this, because in his original post, he mentions not wanting to be considered a control freak.

 

I don't really see how wanting your wife to be home with you in the evenings is being a "control freak." That's an idea that someone, most likely his wife and/or her friends, planted into his mind. Kind of manipulative if it happened that way.

 

Frankly if my wife stayed out till 2 am. at some bar without me even one time I would probably be very upset. My woman's place is home, with me, not out partying till all hours. Esp. late at night. Also quite frankly there's no way I would approve of my wife drinking alcohol to any extent and then trying to drive home late at night, with the DWI laws as they are, how irresponsible is that? (Also dangerous to drive after drinking even if you're not legally drunk, even a couple of pops can impair you if you're tired.)

 

I mean I hope this is not "TMI" but when I'm in bed at night I want my wife sleeping right there by my side. For one thing, how can we make love to each other if she's not there? But even if we're not making love I still want to feel her next to me, that's why I got married to her!

 

As far as getting the new mom out of the house, that's fine, but that's what grandma is for, right? You get grandma or the babysitter to look after the baby and you take your wife out to dinner, dancing, whatever. I understand the part about getting away from the baby for a while. I do NOT understand the need to get away from Pervis.

[zwieback.toast]

going out and having a social life once in a while is not a problem and nobody would say that it is.

 

But why go to clubs? just to dance? I know women would say "yes", but I don't think so.

 

If there is Club A with no men attending, and Club B with lots of men, and both clubs where identical in every way, which one would you go to?

 

Point is, if there were no men there, you wouldn't really want to go would you? So why not go out to dinner, movies, shopping? Why go to a club?

 

And the whole thing about a social life, like I said, not a problem...but when it becomes all too frequent and the clubber that starts making it a habit keeps coming home at 3am.....don't be surprised if the locks are changed.

 

 

When a person is married, like Nervis's wife is to Nervis, the spouses' "social life" whatever that is, is supposed to be with and involve each other, NOT exclude the spouse. Married people socialize with each other. If they didn't want to do that, they shouldn't get married.

[carhill]

The OP stated "I don't go clubbing". I think it's reasonable to join your wife on one of these relaxing occasions and 'pull away' from your family responsibilities as well. I'm sure, even with a new baby, there's someone you trust to watch him/her for a brief evening. Try something new.

 

If you meet resistance, that's an answer....

[carhill]

OK, then let's not deal with the situation directly and establish boundaries. Let's 'spy' on the potentially 'whoring' wife. What's next? What's going to happen in this relationship, regardless of what the spying discovers? Is that healthy? Some good questions to ask yourself, OP. Imagine the scenario where her discovered behavior is completely innocent and, alternatively, completely inappropriate. What about your perspective will change or remain the same? Why? What are you going to do with that information?

[sid3]

I hope for Pervis's sake it's as Carhill has suggested, that it's all just innocent.