lack of sex since we repaired marriage

[steveb]

History: We almost got devorced about a little over a month ago.

 

We have repaired/are repairing our marriage.

We are enjoying our time together.

I am being much more attentive than I was before.

My wife is no longer going out at night with her freinds. (who all had affairs and/or are getting devorced)

 

Problem:

 

We have had sex only once since we started repairing our marriage. (It was on my birthday, Dec. 07)

It has only been 3 weeks, and we have had 3 to 4 week gaps before, but my need to bond with her is causing me to get depressed.

I do not think it is neccessarily a horny thing, It is a need to be intimate with her.

I feel guilty because she knows that this is why I am getting depressed, so it is making her feel guilty as well.

So it seems to be some sort of downward spiral that is only going to get worse.

When we do discuss it and attempt to plan some time together, something always messes up the plans, and it appears that sometimes it is my wife that causes whatever it is that stops us.

I had given her a coupon (made by me) for a back massage, with no strings attached, just to be intimate without sex, but she has avoided that as well.

 

I do not know if I can consider our relationship as healthy until we can get over this hurdle.

 

I am just venting as I know that there is really nothing I can do to change whatever is causing this issue.

[Tony T]

How are you going about "repairing" your marriage? Are you sure your wife wants to repair the marriage? Obviously, you can't go on forever without a reasonable sex life. To me it sounds like you marriage problems have gone beyond what you and your wife can iron out alone. I feel strongly that without a professional psychologist or counsellor, you marriage is eventually going to go down the tubes...unless, of couse, you're willing to live in a freezer for the rest of your life.

 

If your wife refuses to go to counselling, as she is refusing to have sex with you, you need to refuse to stay married to her. It takes a lot more than love to make a marriage work. You need to get to the bottom of why your wife has turned into a deep freeze.

[steveb]

OK.

 

I have realized that this was a problem even before our almost breakup.

I have decided to obstain from trying to be intimate with my wife, at least until we figure out what is going on.

It hurts less to not try, then to be rejected.

 

We are much, much closer since we started repairing our marriage.

We snuggle more, hold hands more, do things together more, talk more openly and more often.

 

We had a talk last week, where she mentioned that she just has little to no libido, but she wishes she did.

I still think it is about me. Some issue she has with me that she may not be aware of.

I think it is more than just not desireing me. That would stop her from initiating, but she also rejects >80% of my advances.

We did make love that night, but I still do not feel wanted/desired.

 

So all last week, I have not watched her change or do her hair, or talk to her in the shower, etc., because all of these things make me desire her.

I think that she has been trying, she will goose me on the stairs, of make teasing comments. but at the end of the day, it is the same problem.

This came up in conversation last night in bed.

I mentioned to her that I was not planning on trying anything anymore.

She got upset, and said that she was going to "let me" last night.

I pretty much stopped talking.

I couldn't sleep, so I went to the kitchen, loaded and programmed the coffe machine for the morning, then went to the computer and wrote her a letter.

 

I started out by saying that I didn't want her to "let me", I wanted her to "want me".

I feel unwanted/undesired.

I explained why I was making this decision to avoid the rejection.

I reasurred her that I still want to spend time with her and snuggle, hold hands, go out, etc. and that this decision should be good for our marriage, at least for now, untill either I become less resentful or we figure out the root cause of her having no desire for me.

 

I do not want to pull away from her emotionally, just sexually.

 

I admit that this is not what I really want or need.

Deep down I am hoping that this will kick start the apathy she has regarding this issue or resolving it.

 

I found a book called sexstarved-marriages online. The excerpts sounded promissing and it had good reviews.

It is mainly about libido differences and how much marrital damage it can cause.

I was going to order from amazon, but I wanted it today, so I am going to the book store at lunch.

[Errol]

I just read a thread by HokeyReligions that is titled ArdeaCandidissma, Bark, infidelity, etc. (You'll see it) and this is long but well worth reading -- it might have some relevance to your own situation and an insight on feelings.

[moimeme]

Steve. Listen up. Loss of libido is a HUGE and VERY COMMON PROBLEM FOR WOMEN. It is very often a medical issue and can be helped medically BUT SHE HAS TO DISCUSS THIS WITH HER PHYSICIAN.

 

Just as women should not take mens' impotence problems personally, so should you not take her problem personally. STOP DOING THAT IMMEDIATELY.

 

Now get her to talk to her doctor about this TODAY. You are NOT helping anything by issuing this pronouncement. You are telling her you don't believe that she doesn't understand her loss of libido. You are going to ruin this recovery if you don't wise up.

 

CALL THE DOCTOR TODAY

 

Loss of libido - the sexual urge or instinct - is a frequent complaint among female patients, says Dr. Rachel I. Mandel, a Hagerstown gynecologist. "It's a common problem that's often not talked about," Mandel says

http://www.dental.am/eng/libido/6.html

 

According to several research papers, more than 90 percent of middle-aged women suffer from decreased desire to make love, not being aroused by sexual stimuli, or inability to climax. An article in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings summarizes the accepted treatment plan for this condition, called Female Sexual Dysfunction.

http://www.drmirkin.com/women/1237.html

[steveb]

What strikes me different from everything I have read is that she has no orgasm/climax problems, no moisture problems. None of the physical issues that I read about.

 

It is either purely loss of libido, or no desire for me.

 

To me, not having libido may cause you to not be agressive, nor initiate things, but should not mean that you are not receptive to things.

 

She doesn't say it, but I know that she worries that I will try something. She will either proclaim that she is not feeling well as she gets ready for bed, or stays up after I have to go to bed to get up for work.

 

When we do have sex, it is wonderful, and as far as I can tell she likes it as well.

[moimeme]

My ADD ex ALWAYS looked for reasons for himself to be blamed for whatever was happening. You are doing the same thing and it is annoying. You shouldn't try to diagnose this problem - but let me tell you this, this tendency of my ex's was a HUGE turnoff. Quit trying to find reasons you are to blame and GET HER TO A DOCTOR.

[ArdeaCandidissima]

Have you tried libido-increasing exercises? These are often prescribed by counsellors. They involve lots of touching, with increasing physical closeness over a period of weeks, but avoiding intercourse. It builds desire.

 

Massage is also great. Will she accept your touch if she knows it will not lead to intercourse?

 

I'll speak for myself about why I have refused my husband's advances at times. It was sometimes just fatigue, but more often, it was anger. Either anger at his not sharing the household and family workload, or embarrassing me in public, or most of all, anger at his sexual techniques. He's not the greatest lover. I have tried to tell him what I like, but every time, it is as if I had never said anything. Diving for my clit before he has even touched me anywhere else is a common turnoff. You'd think after I had asked 50 times for him not to do that, he'd remember. Doing things to me without the slightest encouragement, and seeming quite oblivious to my unresponsiveness.

 

Both he and the various counsellors have got me well trained that I must be super-sensitive when talking to him about sexuality, and he tends to "flip" if I say "not like that". The result has been that my voice has been absolutely stifled. I feel that I can't say no to things that don't feel good, because then I'll be "rejecting him". And I do feel very angry that he doesn't even remember the things I have asked him to do, or not to do, SO many times! I tend to connect it in my mind with the reality that he always leaves his dirty dishes on the table for hours after a meal, even though I've told him hundreds of times I would like them cleared away. This man ignores my words, so I ignore his sexual advances. It's that simple.

 

And sorry Steve, I have committed the sin of not responding to your post directly. My point is that unresponsiveness, particularly in a couple with a lot of history, can definitely have an emotional cause, as you suggest. My physical responsiveness is great.

[moimeme]

Hoo boy. Those behaviours you described, Ardea, are exactly like those of my ex - the guy with AD/HD. Steve, please please if your wife says things like 'I've asked you to do X so many times' or 'I've asked you NOT to do X SO many times', then it could be your behaviour. This happens to ADDers because of the memory problems, inability to plan, inability to recall and use lessons from before, etc. Ardea - has your husband been evaluated for conditions other than depression? A lot of disorders like anxiety and depression result from someone having AD/HD.

 

Steve, do double-check your own behaviour, but also get her to a doctor.

[steveb]

Thanks for your (plural) advise and comments.

 

I have been disappointed for years concerning the difference of our libidos. But no anger, nor resentment was there.

 

But after her emotional affair, my need to bond (not even necc. sex) and be needed is very high.

I think that am still very damaged by the whole affair issue.

 

I have brought up quite a few times, massages, with no strings attached.

She will not take me up on the offer.

 

Some Irony:

She just started a job where she sells lengerie and sex toys at "at home" parties. (like pampered chef or tupperware parties)

She used to do the same thing 3-4 years ago, but then it was only the lengerie.

 

All I know is I feel the rejection more now then before, and I feel resentment starting, and that scares for it means to our relationship.

 

Oh, and about the ADD. (innatentive subtype)

I went to the doctor last friday and started a medication to address it. Hopefully it helps.

[moimeme]

You can't make it personal. You'll only damage the relationship. You are assuming the cause without any evidence to prove your case other than your own flawed 'diagnosis'. So cut it out and let her find out what's up. Maybe you just have different libidos if this has been going on a long time. In which case, how would it be 'rejection'??? Your needs have changed but hers are the same. But you feel 'rejected' because she didn't change? Come on, Steve. You're not being fair. You're resenting her for being who she always was. Or for having a condition which she can't help. Either way, you have to fix your thinking about this.

[steveb]

I hear what your saying and I thankful to be hearing it.

 

That is why I have decided to not try to be intimate like that with her.

And to avoid the situations that make me want to be sexual with her.

 

I reasurred her that I still want to spend time with her and snuggle, hold hands, go out, etc. and that this decision should be good for our marriage, at least for now, untill either I become less resentful or we figure out the root cause of her having no desire for me.

 

I do not want to pull away from her emotionally, just sexually.

 

If I am sure that I am not becoming resentful, I may change my mind on this decision, but for now it seems best.

 

What you have been hearing from me is alot of the issues I am having that led me to where I am now.

I am hoping that avoiding wanting her that way will let us both be happier.

 

I can only control what I can control, "me"

 

I hope she addresses the issue via doctors, books, etc., but I can not make her, nor should I.

 

I will do what I can do to make this easier on both of us.

[HurtinginVA]

I know, from past experiences, I was similiar to your wife. So, hear me out.

 

My husband was(still can be but not as much) VERY sexually aggressive. Constantly. Relentlessly. It became aggravating. I started to feel like the only thing he ever wanted to do with me was have sex. AND everytime he tried showing affection (kisses, massages, long hugs etc...) I always felt like he was trying to turn that into an opportunity to have sex. Eventually things got very rough, I would "reject" any advances that he made. Of any kind. Not good when youre married!

 

I wouldnt totally stop making your wife feel wanted. But prove to her that you can cuddle, massage, kiss and all that jazz, without turning it into an opportunity for sex. It'll be hard, because she may reject at first.......but after awhile.......who knows?

 

Hope that helps a bit........hang in there!

[steveb]

Thanks.

[steveb]

We talked again about this last night.

I clarified what I meant and what I was doing.

 

I realized that I was refraining from thinking of her sexually because I need a break from those thoughts.

 

 

Flashback from 4 months to probably 5-6 years ago:

----

At some point I began to take my wife for granted.

Not sure if it was the ADD or some problem we had, heck, this may have started with the libido difference, but I am not sure why it happened.

I used to take her for granted, not give her attention, and still act like a dog to her.

----

 

I am sure that my inattentiveness had something to do with the emotional affair.

Although I do not think of her as an object, I sure acted like it before.

 

But prove to her that you can cuddle, massage, kiss and all that jazz, without turning it into an opportunity for sex. It'll be hard, because she may reject at first.......but after awhile.......who knows?

 

This is what I told her I was doing this for. That I want her to feel comfortable and trusting instead of concerned or scared that am am going to push things to sex.

 

She metioned that she was concerned that it was a test. That if I did this and we went two months without sex, that I would resent her for not trying.

 

I explained that I am doing this for me, becuase I do not want to keep getting upset.

I reminded her that I am not become celebate or anything, I am just trying to avoid all the triggers that make me think about her that way. (and there are sooo many of them)

I told her that if I am feeling overly amourous, or feel safe enough (concerning the possibility of rejection) that will still try to initiate something. I asked her to use the previous statment to address her concern of it being a test.

 

This is all to not feel as bad in the in between times, so I do not resent or get agry or hurt.

 

Also, Regarding doctors and such. I have brought it up. I can not force her to address it, but I have brought it up.

[steveb]

I regards to the book I picked up. "sexstarved-marriages"

It is a very interesting read, and both my wife and I are relating to most of it. (we are both reading it using two bookmarks)

It seems to have been written to address the exact form of libido difference that we have, and the exact same effects it has had on our marriage.

Although it referes to medical conditions and mentions that going to a doctor may be beneficial, it only covers potential solutions that we can address ourselves. (she does not dismiss medical, she just says that she can only address what she know as a marrital councelor)

Some of her tequniques are:

Her main comment is "just do it". That if you have sex more often, even if it wouldn't be your normal choice, it will make you feel more sexual and remind you more often that you like sex. (which my wife does once she gets started) She says that this will work like an upward spiral and you libido will/may increase. There are other techniques in the book as well for both my wife and myself.

 

My wife was not to this point in the book yet when I read this.

She will probably be reading it sometime this morning.

I am not sure what she will think of it. It sounds way too simple.

When we do make love, my wife doesn't just lay there, she gets very into it and we are both very attentive to eachother.

I assume that this could actually work for us.

One big point in the book that we have realized is the case with my wife is that not everyone follows the "desire-arousal-climax" formula. Some women's mind/body works as "arousal-desire-climax". Sometimes desire comes first, but that is not the norm. for my wife. So once she gets started, she gets very into it.

 

Anyway. I'm rambling now.

[HurtinginVA]

One big point in the book that we have realized is the case with my wife is that not everyone follows the "desire-arousal-climax" formula. Some women's mind/body works as "arousal-desire-climax". Sometimes desire comes first, but that is not the norm. for my wife. So once she gets started, she gets very into it.

 

I think I may need a similiar book, not that my marriage is "sex starved" but it's hard for two people to be on the same page a majority of the time. If your wife is following the A-D-C formula, seems like she needs to figure out what things arouse her......then she could be the initiator

 

I think letting her know that there is no pressure for anything and you will still be affectionate is awesome No pressure = more relaxed. It'll give her a chance to loosen up i.e. giving her a back massage, instead of her wondering when youre gonna "put the moves" on her, she'll be sitting back enjoying.....see where Im going with this? LOL

 

Maybe with some of the pressure off she will start to explore her own "turn ons" and let you in on them! She sounds a lot like me, I remember a few years back my husband asking me what mine were, and I couldnt answer him It took some time but I got there

 

Hope all works out with you guys! Good Luck

[moimeme]

Steve

 

That's great if you are both working from the same book! Also great if you both agree that what it's saying is appropriate for you. That you are both working so hard at this is a great sign, IMHO What's really good is that each of you is acknowledging your part in this rather than one blaming the other.

[steveb]

I think that the book's title is cheezy.

She would pobably sell more if she picked a better title.

[clayboysmom]

Steve,

 

You are describing what my marriage was a year ago.

 

I finally realized what a problem it had become when he announced that he was going to leave, I love my husband desperately. So I decided to do something about it. First thing I did was go to the ob/gyn. There was a physical problem that caused pain when we were intimate, so I got that fixed. When doc asked about my emotions all hell cut loose, the last 3 years had been quite distressing for me and she put me on a medication called EFFEXOR XR it is a med. for depression, and it also helps with the libido.

 

 

My husband travels for work and is sometimes gone for months at a time. When he finally got home, I had been on the meds. for almost 6 months. This was just the chance that I needed to show him that libido was on the mend, but much to my surprise things did not get better, the sex did but that is not all there is to a marriage. He finally told me that sex wasn't the only thing missing. The hugging kissing and hand holding were not there either, then I realized just exactly (Sp) what the vow to cherish really meant. We have talked alot since then and we both realized that there were 2 people that needed to fix this problem. Just last weekend I finally told him that I needed more also and that we both had to fix this problem.

 

Thank God I talked to him, things since then have been alot better, So what I suggest is doctor first then communication communication communication. Let her know that this is a problem for 2 people to solve not one of you or the other.

 

Hope that things get better for you.

[steveb]

We have also been taking a lout since our potential breakup.

We have put a lout of things on the table and are working on them.

I think that is why this topic came up. I was still holding this in to not hurt her feelings, but that is usually not good for a relationship.

 

Last night she mentioned that her back ached, so I reminded her about the back massage offer.

She agreed.

We have never done a massage with oil before, so she usually has me stop a shoulder massage and such, because she has always said my hand hurt her.

So I had already gotten some massage oil.

I laid out pillows and a beach towel (which I didn't really need, I wasn't sure of the consistency) and gout my clothes out for the next day. (I put them in the bathroom so I don't wake her up in the morning)

When I came back to the room, she was laying face down on the bed in just her undies. (i think they are called boy shorts)

I had already heated the oil and started her massage. Like I said before, I was trying really hard not to start anything, even though I was aroused though the whole massage.

After a little bit, I was pretty impressed by myself; I wasn't trying anything; I was thinking that I was a damn good masseur (sp?).

She had made a couple of comments that I must be getting tired. I said no.

This went on for an hour and 15 mins. (I wonder what a professional would charge for that.)

She was swinging from very relaxed/almost asleep to very talkative.

At about 1:15 into it, she said she need to adjust, and she rolled over.

 

I massaged the front of her shoulders and her arms only. I was trying to keep my composure, not sure what to do.

I kept seeing a corner of the mouth hidden smile on her.

A couple minutes into that I lunged forward and kissed her hard.

I'll skip the rest.

I know this was a little detailed, but every little part had a meaning to me.

 

I would say that we met each other half way last night.

I was able to not treat her as an object and not shorten our time together by making a move very early.

She made me feel wanted. Wanted for both the massage and for the later things.

 

It was good night.

 

I think before was talked, she thought I just wanted go "get off" more often then her.

Now that we have discussed it and researched it, she understand more about the feelings I really have about us being together as a relationship/emotional-connection thing.

[clayboysmom]

I am happy for you maybe now you are on the right track for things to get better. Keep up the communication, but do not stop showing her that you love HER. That will get you farther than anything else I know.