Friend won't take husband's name

[Peter Attis]

It means she is not really committed to the marriage.

 

I'm inclined to concur with this. I don't think it's the act of not taking the name itself that's the problem, but some of the rationalizations for it I've been seeing in this thread.

[Stung]

He is just trying to maximize his odds of having a happy marriage that lasts. Feminists tend not to make good marriage partners.

 

I know that because of your past you have a twisted take on feminism, and I also know that the conservative media has turned feminist into a dirty word in many parts of the world...and yes, some women take feminism and twist it from it's true origins into something hatemongering, just as some people have twisted every concept since the beginning of time. In my book, a feminist is a person who believes women should have the right to vote and work, and should receive equal pay for equal work, and receive equal protection under the law. That makes me, and most of the people on this board, feminists.

 

I did not change my last name when I married. I was the last "Stung" in my family line until I had my son, and his last name is hyphenated with that of my husband. My husband, bless his heart, could care less. Then again women changing their names is not a cultural imperative where we live, I'd say it's about 50-50. I know three men who changed to their wives' last names, and I would have been okay with my husband doing that, but his identity is important to him as mine is to me, plus his name is well-established in his career. We have been talking about both changing our middle names to each other's last names as a symbolic gesture, probably for our anniversary, but that would be a pretty private romantic gesture.

 

I'm very committed to my marriage. I believe in the institution of marriage and I love my husband deeply, he's my best friend, my lover, my partner and the father of my child, I value him and respect him above all others and have every intention of growing old by his side...but I am still me, and will always be me, and I will die with the same last name I was born with.

[Stung]

After all, for most of us our last name isn't really ours - we didn't choose it, it's our father's name. So to me, it doesn't really matter either way.

 

 

But my last name IS mine. I was born with it, just as my father was born with it, and his father before him...before THAT, it was changed by an illiterate from it's original ancestral form. My name is very unique and, IMO, suits me to a T. I answered to my name in school and signed paperwork with it and committed to legal contracts with it and was published under it before I married my husband. Why is this name less mine than it is my father's? My husband ALSO got his name from his father, yet his name is considered his own and mine is not? I am not trying to pick on you Elswyth I just have never understood this reasoning.

[juliet1989]

I think a couple uniting under one name, be it the woman's or the man's, is a beautiful thing. I believe it reinforces that in marriage two become one entity, which is super romantic.

But what about the children? If a husband and wife have different last names, which one do the kids get? Does it just depend on the couple? Would they hyphenate?

[Lauriebell82]

I think a couple uniting under one name, be it the woman's or the man's, is a beautiful thing. I believe it reinforces that in marriage two become one entity, which is super romantic.

But what about the children? If a husband and wife have different last names, which one do the kids get? Does it just depend on the couple? Would they hyphenate?

 

I would think it depends on the couple. A lot of couples do hyphenate, I'm not a fan of that though it's too much to say for a kid. But to each his own!

 

Most of the couples I know who have had children in which the wife has kept her maiden name have given the child the husband's last name. The only problem with that though, is that the wife always gets called "Mrs. Husband's last name" because the child has that name.

[Tayla]

And a rose by any other name is still a rose. So to, with a person. THey are still characteristic of loving gestures, support, understanding and being Faithful. Sorry A last name does little difference to those attributes that are needed in a marriage. I remain respectful of traditional things, but a name isnt one of them Unless its Mrs Keanu Reeves

On a funny side note I often felt bad for little children who had to spell their parents hyphen-nated name because Mommy and Daddy wanted to stand as individuals. It takes that kid twice as long to just put his/her name at the top of the test

[Stung]

I think a couple uniting under one name, be it the woman's or the man's, is a beautiful thing. I believe it reinforces that in marriage two become one entity, which is super romantic.

But what about the children? If a husband and wife have different last names, which one do the kids get? Does it just depend on the couple? Would they hyphenate?

 

 

I do dig the romanticism of that, and during my engagement I was swayed a little by that thinking. But, you know, my husband and I are united as one on many, many fronts, there's a whole lotta solidarity here and symbolism to reinforce it. I chose to keep my own last name as a symbol that I am still myself, the woman he fell in love with, with my own identity and heritage not subsumed by his but added to it. However I respect that others have a different take and personally am not fussed by what other people choose to do with these traditions.

 

Children's names should be up to each couple. I know couples who have given their kids the husband's last name, others who have given the wife's, others who have hyphenated. Our son's last name is hyphenated, some people don't like that option and to that I give a big shrug and an "oh well." You can't make everybody happy. It might take him longer to write his name but that way he gets more writing and penmanship practice, and I'm pretty sure it won't scar him for life. Our hyphenated names actually sound great together, quite mellifluous, and work really well with his name as a whole. And when he's old enough to marry and have kids of his own I trust he will be clever and independent enough to figure out how he wants to handle or pass on his name from there. Perhaps he'll keep both our names, perhaps he'll pick just one, perhaps he'll change it entirely or hyphenate with his partner into a ridiculously long chain, I have no idea. It will be fun to find out.

[WalkInThePark]

I think a couple uniting under one name, be it the woman's or the man's, is a beautiful thing. I believe it reinforces that in marriage two become one entity, which is super romantic.

But what about the children? If a husband and wife have different last names, which one do the kids get? Does it just depend on the couple? Would they hyphenate?

 

Depends on the country you live in. Most of the time it is the name of the father. I think that in my country you could give the name of the mother but it would be complicated. I know that in Germany you have the choice: father's name, mother's name or double name. In Spain they always give a double name.

[Neutrino]

Women who are usually this opposed to take a name are usually not commitment minded.

 

Woggle - what a load of b0ll0x...

 

[Neutrino]

It makes perfect sense in societies where women are considered property, and that's exactly what they were back in the day before feminism.

 

Not to forget that African slaves also took on the surname of their owner many times... This kinda forces the comparison....

 

Anyway - I think generally whatever the 2 people in the relationship agree on is ok - their baggage.

[Angel1111]

If a man insisted on it, then we'd have problems right away. But I would change my name because I like the fact that it ties us together in that 'family name' sense. I think it's especially important if you have children together. I would just make my middle name my maiden name. No hyphen though - that becomes a real nightmare because it gets alphabetized differently than your husband's last name, plus the whole thing becomes your last name. It's a major pain.

[Peter Attis]

Woggle - what a load of b0ll0x...

 

 

Clearly you haven't been reading this thread.

[Stung]

This has been my experience as well Woggle..

I'm trying not to generalize as you have though but of all the people who I have known who refused or didn't change their name are also no longer married and some of those marriages didn't last long.

 

That doesn't mean that there are not people out there who didn't change their names who were committed.. it just means of the people I have known.

 

Although.. if the woman had a real high profile or involved career and changing her name would hurt her career then I would think it doesn't fall into the commitment category.

 

I cannot speak for the people you know, obviously, AC. And I appreciate your making the distinction that you don't think your observation should be held true for everyone. However, I am acquainted with two women my own age (mid-30s) who are on their third marriages, who have changed their names each time. When they married for the first time they already referred to their husbands as their 'first husbands,' with a laugh, they viewed marriage as disposable and to be entered into lightly just to take a chance. Each woman is on her fourth name, clearly that couldn't have been an indication of deep commitment on her part.

 

I have not been married very long, and I did not take my husband's last name. But I have every intention of growing old with my husband, and of fighting side by side with him through any difficulties that will assuredly arise in our future together. We believe in marriage counseling and working on relationship issues, not walking away. We both waited until our thirties to marry, turning down others who wanted to marry us, because we didn't want to enter into it lightly and took marriage seriously. We have been raising children (our own infant, his daughter from a previous gf and my goddaughters) together for four years, so we're not exactly starry-eyed honeymooners full of cockeyed optimism.

 

I am my own person and I have my own name. But both my feet are firmly planted in my marriage.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Stung

[Neutrino]

Clearly you haven't been reading this thread.

 

Peter, I read - trust me. Saying that a woman who refuses to take on the husband's name is not committed to the relationship is a load of crap.

 

In this thread Woggle's posts are oozing BS.

[Eeyore79]

What if his surname is horrible and doesn't go with your first name?

 

Quite a few of my exes had horrible surnames that I didn't want, and I was adamant that I'd never change my name if I married them. I didn't particularly want my kids to have those surnames either, because they didn't sound very nice. But I quite like my current boyfriend's surname; I'm still not sure if I'd take it myself, because I want to retain my own identity, but I'd definitely want our kids to have it because it's so nice.

 

If your woman doesn't want to take your surname, maybe your surname is just horrible? If your surname was something nicer that sounded good with her first name, she might be more inclined to take it...

[TaraMaiden]

I don't want to get married, right now, but my partner does.

But if I did marry him, I'd take his name officially (it's got historic value, and is very beautiful) but keep my maiden name professionally, because I have built up my business over time, in my maiden name.

 

I really know what the problem is either way. It's personal choice.

 

But Peter?

you talk as much Bull as Woggle does.

Actually, a lot more.....

you're a blinkered, jaded, disillusioned misogynist, and although Woggle has made huge strides in understanding that some of his opinions of some women are both misguided and illogical - not to say wildly incorrect - you? I dunno where you're coming from. But you're a sad, sad man.

 

Where the hell do your narrow-minded opinions stem form?

I despair, I really do.

[Els]

But my last name IS mine. I was born with it, just as my father was born with it, and his father before him...before THAT, it was changed by an illiterate from it's original ancestral form. My name is very unique and, IMO, suits me to a T. I answered to my name in school and signed paperwork with it and committed to legal contracts with it and was published under it before I married my husband. Why is this name less mine than it is my father's? My husband ALSO got his name from his father, yet his name is considered his own and mine is not? I am not trying to pick on you Elswyth I just have never understood this reasoning.

 

Eh, each to their own. To me, my last name truly is just my father's - probably 10% of Chinese around have the same last name as me or some variation of it, so it doesn't make me unique in any way. Or at least, I'm not attached enough to it to want to cause my future husband grief and contempt by his family and society just because I want to keep it.

[Neutrino]

Elswyth, I think you have missed the point of the discussion a little - it is not about grief and contempt (and I would not feel this way if my other 1/2 told me he did not want to use my name).

 

It is about 2 people having the right to make the choice that suits both of them, and not one forcing their opinion on the other (or Woggle forcing his opinion on both...LOL).

 

When 2 people get married - or choose to live together under whatever status, certain type of understanding must exist between them and they must be compatible in terms of life philosophy and lifestyle.

 

It is a personal choice (of the couple) whether to use one partner's name (male or female - the law allows both), keep both individual names, of choose a completely NEW surname for the new unit (isn't this a good one !!).

 

If the choice of one individual causes their partner "grief and contempt" on such a basic issue, I would hold off on the marriage for now - go figure what other things they will disagree on....

 

** I have to add here that I'm sometimes surprised by how people start to talk about a long term commitment when they know each other so little... A married couple I know is going through problems after 10 years relationship, they were together for 4 years before they got married and now another 6, a few months ago the topic of their (opposing) wishes to have or not to have kids came into discussion for the first time !!

Edited February 11, 2010 by Neutrino

[Els]

Neutrino, if you read my original post, I said that I think women should have the right to choose to keep theirs if they wish. I merely stated that I would not, and my reasons why.

 

You would not feel this way if your SO refused to take your name, but believe me, men in an Asian society would get a helluva lot of grief and contempt if their wife didn't take theirs.

[sally4sara]

men in an Asian society would get a helluva lot of grief and contempt if their wife didn't take theirs.

 

Is it because most folks would assume the guy has no say in the relationship and their wife dictates the course of their marriage to them?

 

Well then guess what they believe a woman taking his last name implies? They just think of that as "natural".

In reality, I would imagine wives in your country have some say in their marriages. Funny how something as small as the change up of some tired old name gets people's judgmental tongues wagging.

[bozwa]

While I do believe a woman should have a right to choose whether or not she takes her husband's name or not, for myself personally, I prefer to have taken my husband's name. In fact I couldn't wait to. It symbolizes the joining together and becoming a family. Your own little family. You don't lose who you are just because you change your name. It's a name.

[Els]

Is it because most folks would assume the guy has no say in the relationship and their wife dictates the course of their marriage to them?

 

Well then guess what they believe a woman taking his last name implies? They just think of that as "natural".

In reality, I would imagine wives in your country have some say in their marriages. Funny how something as small as the change up of some tired old name gets people's judgmental tongues wagging.

 

Funny indeed, but society's views are difficult to change. One can either run headfirst into the current and challenge it - or, if the price is negligible, simply go with it.

 

I would go against societal norms if it truly mattered to me, but I don't personally believe that all that ostracism, grief, and whispered gossip is worth keeping my father's name.

[Eeyore79]

You don't lose who you are just because you change your name. It's a name.

 

Yeah, but what if it's a nice name and your fiance's name isn't so nice?

 

Case in point: the Queen's grandson Peter Phillips married a girl with what I thought was a lovely name, Autumn Kelly. Autumn Phillips doesn't sound anywhere near as nice, but I suppose she didn't exactly have a choice about changing it.

[Stung]

While I do believe a woman should have a right to choose whether or not she takes her husband's name or not, for myself personally, I prefer to have taken my husband's name. In fact I couldn't wait to. It symbolizes the joining together and becoming a family. Your own little family. You don't lose who you are just because you change your name. It's a name.

 

 

I respect that you did what you wanted and were happy with your decision, obviously it was the right one for you. But I feel the need to point out that you start off talking about the the importance of the symbol of having one name to you, and then finish by negating anyone else's ideas about the importance of the symbol of their individual name to them. You can't really have it both ways: either a name is an important symbol, or it's not.

[Stung]

Funny indeed, but society's views are difficult to change. One can either run headfirst into the current and challenge it - or, if the price is negligible, simply go with it.

 

I would go against societal norms if it truly mattered to me, but I don't personally believe that all that ostracism, grief, and whispered gossip is worth keeping my father's name.

 

 

The cultural mores you live under are different than mine, granted. I have zero issue with your wanting to change your name upon marriage, or not being strongly attached personally to the name you were born with. Of course it is your decision how to handle your name and you see your path clearly here. It's the 'father's name' vs. 'husband's name' thing I keep circling back to, because I have heard that many times before and it always makes me . Do people really believe that women have no names?

 

Uniqueness factor completely aside, I was still born with my name, just as my husband was born with his name. It was on my birth certificate, my driver's license, my credit card, I answered to it every day in school, ditto for him and his name. I inherited my name from a beloved parent, my husband inherited his name from a beloved parent. I have a professional body of work behind my name and legal contracts signed under that name, my husband has a professional body of work behind his name and legal contracts signed under that name. My name reflects my ethnic heritage and the actual location where at least some of my ancestors were born, my husband's name actually does NOT do this for him but for the sake of argument let's just pretend that it does . Yet some people would consider my husband's name legitimately 'his' while my name is just 'my father's'? By this reasoning I don't see how anyone can have their own names, honestly.