Evidence shows the majority of MM's do NOT leave their wives for the OW.

[White Flower]

Every A is different. The MM is different, the OW is different, the MM's BW is different, the MM's M is different, and the dynamic is different. So there's no One Size Fits All answer to any of that, but I suspect there are some general points that can be distilled out of the "success stories" on here:

 

* the MM was ready to leave. He'd detached sufficiently from the M - either before the A, or during it - and could see a future outside of it (with or without the OW - but, without the BW).

* the MM had made peace with "not having it all" - he knew there'd be compromises (eg, shared custody of kids, possibly a financial adjustment, losing his "home", etc) and was prepared to accept those as a fair price for what he'd be gaining. He was realistic about what leaving would involve.

* the MM was prepared to put in the work - to become healthy and whole and trustworthy, to himself as well as anyone else - and to make sure that the new R was not going to end up down the same route as the doomed M.

 

* the OW did not "settle" for scraps in the A - she demanded to be treated with respect, to not be second best, to not be left hanging around a telephone waiting on the MM. The OW demanded - and got - a FULL R with the MM - something that could set the tone for a healthy LTR post-A.

* the OW had a full, active life that did not centre around the MM. He was a part of it, but not the whole of it. She was not clingy or desperate or needy. She could - and did, in some cases - get along without him just fine.

* the OW was prepared to put in the work too - to build a healthy, trusting R with a MM who'd got a black mark against his name in another R

 

* the A was respectful. The MM did not treat the OW badly. He did not hide her, deny her, was not ashamed of her and did not squeeze her into dark corners of his life. He celebrated her, enjoyed her, kept his promises and was honest and open with her.

* the A - like any LTR - grew and deepened into love, and existed in dimensions other than fantasy. It was more than champagne and roses. The built memories, history, a shared culture and vocabulary of in-jokes, music, special places and dreams.

 

* there was social support - friends, family or others who saw that the A was a positive thing for them, and who supported them in it.

 

I'm not suggesting that all of these "conditions" need to be met for a "successful" out come, nor that all of them being met would necessarily deliver one for the OW and her MM, because obviously there is much more to any R than is reflected here on these boards. But these are just things I've picked up, from reading here.

This is a beautiful post OWoman. I see examples that lead to MM leaving for OW I personally know here at LS and IRL. It has layers of what I've experienced so far and hope to experience in the near future. I can see it for sure.

[White Flower]

...OH PLEASE!!

 

That is VERY rare.

How would you know? Are you an OW?

 

I agreed with her entire post. Of course, my A in the beginning felt like a rollercoaster and I felt the 'fog' but over time I renegotiated my needs and had them met each time. I was pretty darn happy.

[White Flower]

We are on our fifth year.

 

No, I have not always been satisfied with the role I have. But I have never wanted out.

 

And I still hope for and want more, including hoping that he will divorce his wife and be with me.

 

Yet I am at peace with what I have today. There was a turning point for me last fall when my heart and mind finally agreed on how to look at my situation. I had found enough intellectual facts to understand what was going on in my MM's mind. This is what puzzled me for so long, how he could do what he was doing when he loved me so.

 

I think I needed to understand my world. When I had finally gotten enough information to do so, my heart and mind could make peace.

 

It is in my nature to be loyal and faithful to the man I love, even when times are difficult. I stay with them. I knew I would stay with MM for the long run once I understood that he was not leaving his wife.

 

I take responsibility for my choices. I do not regret staying with a man even when it does not turn out the way I want. I enjoy each day for what it is. The reason I am in a relationship is for what I get today, not for what I hope to get in the future.

This is the true meaning of love, isn't it? Knowing that someone stays with us without a contract, assets, and offspring to support a lifelong R? Your MM is one lucky man and I hope you told him I said so.

[White Flower]

My BF's cousin was carrying on an affair with a girl he works with (how original) for 2 yrs.

He claimed to have loved her more that life and told my BF he was getting ready to leave his wife of 20 yrs for her.

This other women is also married and told her H of the affair and that she was leaving.

 

Well the H of the OW went to the home of my BF's cousin to tell the wife. They were away at the time so the cousin was forced to reveal the truth to his wife. He lied to his OW and had no plans on telling his W about his secret life.

 

My BF was 101% sure he now had his chance to leave. Well he told his wife about the A and then begged her to stay and they are now going to couples therapy.

 

MOST cheaters don't leave once the reality of their fantasy world comes crumbling down.

 

He now wants nothing to do with his OW.

 

Precious!

We slide down a slippery slope when we believe 'most cheaters don't leave' after hearing about just one example.

 

Does anyone have stats? I'm trying to get through this whole thread and so far there are no stats.

[White Flower]

I am as much a human being as is my MM's wife. I have as much a right to have a relationship with the person I love as does she. A marriage license means nada to me in that sense. They are an invention of man to keep us in place. Too bad it isn't working.

Entire religions were created to keep people in line. We've evolved so much since then that we are pretty much capable of governing ourselves because to do so is self-preservation.

 

But matters of the heart will always be stronger than any religion.

[White Flower]

Wow. I cannot wrap my mind around this type of thinking. You honestly believe you have a "right" to have a relationship with someone who made vows and is married to someone else?

 

No one forced the MM to marry his wife, did they? There is a thing called free will.

 

I don't know what to say. I find this attitude shocking.

 

Let's say you found an apartment you really, really loved, but someone else was renting it. Do you think you have the "right" to move into that apartment just because you love it as much as the current occupant?

 

Or what if you wanted a certain position at work but it was already taken by someone else. Do you think you have the right to take that position away from the person who has it simply because you really, really would love to have that job?

 

If you're going to live in society you have to follow certain guidelines. People just can't do what they want and take what they wish because they want it really, really badly. That is selfishness to the extreme.

Contracts are not supposed to change but the heart almost always does.

[White Flower]

Absolutely. I believe the term for such a person is sociopath.

I believe the gene for sociopathy is found only in males.

[White Flower]

From what I've read here I don't get that impression at all.

 

From what I've seen, it appears that most of the OW here don't think it's alright to be in a relationship with a MM.

 

Isn't that why they need support? To deal with the guilt and lack of self-respect involved in being "the OW".

 

I have to say, you're one of the very few OW I've come across who seems proud of her status. That's unusual.

The reason we need support is not because we don't think it's all right to be in a R with a MM, the reason is because so far our society forces an R like that to be hidden; therefore, support is not as accessable from family and friends like it is for M people, etc. Support can be found in counseling, but that cost money. Many people who are not in As can find 'counseling' among family and friends for free because they're used to dealing with such Rs.

 

When As are no longer as hidden as they are now, support will be widely accessible. We as a society just need time to evolve. 50 years ago you wouldn't have seen people on a board discussing this if the internet were invented then.

[bittersweet memories]

The reason we need support is not because we don't think it's all right to be in a R with a MM, the reason is because so far our society forces an R like that to be hidden; therefore, support is not as accessable from family and friends like it is for M people, etc. Support can be found in counseling, but that cost money. Many people who are not in As can find 'counseling' among family and friends for free because they're used to dealing with such Rs.

 

When As are no longer as hidden as they are now, support will be widely accessible. We as a society just need time to evolve. 50 years ago you wouldn't have seen people on a board discussing this if the internet were invented then.

 

Its hidden because the MM/MW chooses to keep you a secret...You are Hilarious!!

[White Flower]

I am not sure how you interpreted this statement. The one size generalization? Pretty much all of these things do follow a similar pattern, and can be generalized and the results are pretty much predictable for most cases. And did I copy some statement? Yes, its right from chapter 7 of OW handbook....

 

Referring to the "monumental waste of energy" . I am wasting years of my life trying to recover from my wifes infidelity that had very little to do with me. That is why I come here to try and find meaning for her behaviour. I would not be here otherwise. I am compelled to seek answers from something that has no answer and is based on irrational and selfish behaviour. I am lookin for a glimmer of meaning that will allow me to exonerate her. Can't find it in any of the remarks or attitudes of OW who post here. The deal is that as a result of my wifes affair I end up hurt and will lose a good chunk of my self for absolutely no real reason. That sucks big time, but that is life. I am learning a lot about human nature and it is interesting but it is not enriching my life at all, on the contrary it has diminished my life. And by seeing the brokeness of the cheating, heartless people who post here I understand a little more each day. It really is a waste of time though.

There are a multitude of answers but it sounds like you're unwilling to accept even one of them.

 

And the worst thing is, she just may have found your and her chemistry to be off balance. Simple as that and it hurts like he**. Or, she could have found your harsh reasoning patterns a bit intimidating? I'm not knocking you, just trying to show a couple of examples as to the 'whys' of her leaving/cheating.

 

You will get over this and you will be a better person for it. I'm glad you are seeking answers because only then will true understanding enlighten you. Good luck.

[Lizzie60]

This is the true meaning of love, isn't it? Knowing that someone stays with us without a contract, assets, and offspring to support a lifelong R? Your MM is one lucky man and I hope you told him I said so.

 

 

This is sooooo true...

[D-Lish]

No, we haven't crossed paths in quite a while.. I'm fine, post D-day #2 but things are looking good. MM is in counseling (yay!) and I'm in a very good place.

 

That's good news for you!! You've always had a level head and a strong sense of self- which I am sure contributes to being in that "good place" you are at now.

 

I know I visit the infidelity boards here and there- and sometimes the things I hear from OW are upsetting because it conjurs up memories- but I've always maintained that the married person is the one that needs to be held accountable for their actions. I had temptations, I had offers, I had lonley nights too as a married person- but I didn't act on them. If I had have acted upon any of those moments- it would have been my cross to bear. That's how I look at things.

 

I think affairs suck from all sides. It seems more often than not that it's the women that suffer the most - on both sides , BS or OW.

 

I remember meeting the OW in the mall that day. I felt sick- and seeing the product of our affair holding hands with his dad and looking just like him was a little traumatizing. I pictured her in my mind to be this wretchid temptress- but upon meeting her, she was just a woman- different from me, but not evil or anything remotely close to it.

 

He screwed it up- he failed us...I've always maintained that on this board.

[White Flower]

Its hidden because the MM/MW chooses to keep you a secret...You are Hilarious!!

Actually, I was not hidden. All of my friends new, my daughter, and some of MM's friends knew. Not all As are the same so you shouldn't make assumptions.

 

I stand by what I said. 'It' is hidden because society as a whole still wants it that way. So glad to see it changing.

[fooled once]

Every A is different. The MM is different, the OW is different, the MM's BW is different, the MM's M is different, and the dynamic is different. So there's no One Size Fits All answer to any of that, but I suspect there are some general points that can be distilled out of the "success stories" on here:

 

* the MM was ready to leave. He'd detached sufficiently from the M - either before the A, or during it - and could see a future outside of it (with or without the OW - but, without the BW).

* the MM had made peace with "not having it all" - he knew there'd be compromises (eg, shared custody of kids, possibly a financial adjustment, losing his "home", etc) and was prepared to accept those as a fair price for what he'd be gaining. He was realistic about what leaving would involve.

* the MM was prepared to put in the work - to become healthy and whole and trustworthy, to himself as well as anyone else - and to make sure that the new R was not going to end up down the same route as the doomed M.

 

* the OW did not "settle" for scraps in the A - she demanded to be treated with respect, to not be second best, to not be left hanging around a telephone waiting on the MM. The OW demanded - and got - a FULL R with the MM - something that could set the tone for a healthy LTR post-A.

* the OW had a full, active life that did not centre around the MM. He was a part of it, but not the whole of it. She was not clingy or desperate or needy. She could - and did, in some cases - get along without him just fine.

* the OW was prepared to put in the work too - to build a healthy, trusting R with a MM who'd got a black mark against his name in another R

 

* the A was respectful. The MM did not treat the OW badly. He did not hide her, deny her, was not ashamed of her and did not squeeze her into dark corners of his life. He celebrated her, enjoyed her, kept his promises and was honest and open with her.

* the A - like any LTR - grew and deepened into love, and existed in dimensions other than fantasy. It was more than champagne and roses. The built memories, history, a shared culture and vocabulary of in-jokes, music, special places and dreams.

 

* there was social support - friends, family or others who saw that the A was a positive thing for them, and who supported them in it.

 

I'm not suggesting that all of these "conditions" need to be met for a "successful" out come, nor that all of them being met would necessarily deliver one for the OW and her MM, because obviously there is much more to any R than is reflected here on these boards. But these are just things I've picked up, from reading here.

 

While this is a great post, I haven't seen many OW who are this way.

 

More often than not, many, many OW on here are 'settle for scraps'. Really and truly, those OW who want true relationships with a MM are settling.

 

Take out Lizzie (who isn't looking for a monogamous relationship), you (because you are now with the man you had an affair with <and before him, you admit you didn't want fulltime relationship>), and GEL (who has also married the man she had an affair with), very few women on here routinely and consistently are happy with the state of the affair they are in.

 

You and GEL both laid down the groundwork PRIOR to entering into an affair. Both of you refused to be hidden, to not be a priority, to not stand up for what you wanted.

 

Very few on here do that. Very few are confident enough to say "pick" or "here are the rules". Why are they less confident? I don't know - fear of the affair ending? Low self esteem? I don't know that answer. You could almost pick any thread and you will see how so many OW wait around for a phone call, an email, a text. Many OW have time frames on when they are 'allowed' to call. They can't call him up at 11 pm and say I need you now and the guy will show up. Very few can schedule a vacation with him on a moments notice. Very few can show up at his place, unannounced. Yet they sit and wait ... and again, very few put a strict time limit on how long they are willing to play this role of mistress.

 

Regarding respect -- I think people have a different view of respect than I do when I say OW are disrespected. When I say this I mean they are disrespected because they are hidden, they are secrets. Many ARE in dark corners of MM's life. Many haven't met his kids, haven't attended Thanksgiving dinner. They can't -- that is where the wife is. They can't meet the kids because the kids aren't adults (who may be more forgiving of their father cheating on their mother). They are disrespecting these women by putting them in the position of being a mistress to begin with. They are disrespecting her by putting restrictions on the frequency of calls, visits. They are disrespecting them by not being up front and honest to the world about them.

 

Many of the OW on here live to hear from him. They get depressed if more than a day goes by and they don't hear from him/see him. They don't have the ability to see him when THEY want, they have to wait on HIS timetable.

 

They are 2nd to him because his first priority is to his wife. He doesn't leave his wife hanging, he doesn't hide his wife from friends/family. If he winds up in the hospital, it will be the wife who is by his side, making decisions regarding his health. If a family vacation is planned, it isn't the OW making the plans or even going on it, it is the wife. If he really is putting the OW first, he would be with her. He would be going home to her each night, not his wife.

 

He is not being true to his love (if that is really the OW) by not embracing their relationship and coming clean with his wife. He is denying his relationship with the OW to the wife. He is protecting the wife....he doesn't want to hurt her, doesn't matter that the OW is crying nightly for him. He isn't going to upset his home life to be with the OW.

 

I still say, if he wants to be with her (OW), he would be. He would move MOUNTAINS to be with the one he loves. But he isn't. He is biding time until (a) the wife asks for a divorce <which makes him a coward in my eyes> or (b) the OW gets tired of waiting and leaves him or © he tells the OW he is 'working on getting out of the marriage' when he really isn't.

 

I really think so many OW don't see him for what he really is. He is a liar. He is a cheater. I mean, if they could turn the tables and think how they would feel if they were the Wife and he was treating them the way he is treating his wife....why do they want this guy who is lying, who is dragging his heels, who is not putting into ACTION what his words say? And it will never cease to amaze me the years women sit and wait for these guys. I just can't image stopping my life while I wait for a guy to decide if I am good enough to be with full time. Because that is how I see it. If he really loved me, he would be with me.

 

I am not passing judgment on these women who do sit and wait- heck I waited 2 years. But I also am glad I quit waiting. I am glad I finally decided to demand more for ME because I was worth it.

[White Flower]

That's good news for you!! You've always had a level head and a strong sense of self- which I am sure contributes to being in that "good place" you are at now.

 

I know I visit the infidelity boards here and there- and sometimes the things I hear from OW are upsetting because it conjurs up memories- but I've always maintained that the married person is the one that needs to be held accountable for their actions. I had temptations, I had offers, I had lonley nights too as a married person- but I didn't act on them. If I had have acted upon any of those moments- it would have been my cross to bear. That's how I look at things.

 

I think affairs suck from all sides. It seems more often than not that it's the women that suffer the most - on both sides , BS or OW.

 

I remember meeting the OW in the mall that day. I felt sick- and seeing the product of our affair holding hands with his dad and looking just like him was a little traumatizing. I pictured her in my mind to be this wretchid temptress- but upon meeting her, she was just a woman- different from me, but not evil or anything remotely close to it.

 

He screwed it up- he failed us...I've always maintained that on this board.

Yes you have and I have always respected you for that. The pain you endured was rightly blamed on your H for doing that to you. I'm glad to know that you found the OW to be human as well. Also, I'm sorry you were so traumatized. I truly hope you find love, a love that will erase all that pain for you and bring you real happiness all the days of your life.

 

I had many offers during my M as well. The only time I ever caved into a MM was when my M was already falling apart and D was 'on the table'. I have no regrets.

[fooled once]

The reason we need support is not because we don't think it's all right to be in a R with a MM, the reason is because so far our society forces an R like that to be hidden; therefore, support is not as accessable from family and friends like it is for M people, etc. Support can be found in counseling, but that cost money. Many people who are not in As can find 'counseling' among family and friends for free because they're used to dealing with such Rs.

 

When As are no longer as hidden as they are now, support will be widely accessible. We as a society just need time to evolve. 50 years ago you wouldn't have seen people on a board discussing this if the internet were invented then.

 

I don't agree with the bolded. Why should affairs be acceptable? What happened to ending one relationship before starting another? Why isn't THAT acceptable? Why isn't that done? The evolving, IMHO, needs to be done so that people don't cheat. Why lie? Why abuse trust?

 

get a divorce if you (general you) are so "unhappy". End the relationship. No one says a person must be married forever, because people DO change. But that doesn't mean they should cheat just because they are too lazy or irresponsible or immature to end the first relationship. Cheating is the easy way out, in my view.

Edited February 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[White Flower]

The reason we need support is not because we don't think it's all right to be in a R with a MM, the reason is because so far our society forces an R like that to be hidden; therefore, support is not as accessable from family and friends like it is for M people, etc. Support can be found in counseling, but that cost money. Many people who are not in As can find 'counseling' among family and friends for free because they're used to dealing with such Rs.

 

When As are no longer as hidden as they are now, support will be widely accessible. We as a society just need time to evolve. 50 years ago you wouldn't have seen people on a board discussing this if the internet were invented then.

 

I don't agree with the bolded. Why should affairs be acceptable? What happened to ending one relationship before starting another? Why isn't THAT acceptable? Why isn't that done? The evolving, IMHO, needs to be done so that people don't cheat. Why lie? Why abuse trust?

 

get a divorce if you (general you) are so "unhappy". End the relationship. No one says a person must be married forever, because people DO change. But that doesn't mean they should cheat just because they are too lazy or irresponsible or immature to end the first relationship. Cheating is the easy way out, in my view.

Actually, I prefer leaving before cheating but the trend is proving us wrong isn't it? And FWIW, our society is the last among the world to accept As as a regular part of society. It is widely accepted around the world because those societies are older and slightly more evolved. We're still so puritanical in the US.

Edited February 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[sumdude]

From what little information I have about it because the affair was quite well hidden until the very end.

 

My ex-wife was in an affair with a MM. He ended his marriage, she walked out on me without warning. They were married not long after the ink was dry on the divorce papers.

[White Flower]

Actually, I prefer leaving before cheating but the trend is proving us wrong isn't it? And FWIW, our society is the last among the world to accept As as a regular part of society. It is widely accepted around the world because those societies are older and slightly more evolved. We're still so puritanical in the US.

FTR I quoted Fooledonce, not myself.

[White Flower]

And now I have quoted myself but it appears I am quoting Fooledonce. What is going on with LS?

[Lizzie60]

Fooled... I have to disagree with this:

 

He would move MOUNTAINS to be with the one he loves...

 

If you had to choose between your children or the AP... who would you choose.. I honestly think that many MM do stay for the love of their children..

[White Flower]

Fooled... I have to disagree with this:

 

He would move MOUNTAINS to be with the one he loves...

 

If you had to choose between your children or the AP... who would you choose.. I honestly think that many MM do stay for the love of their children..

I agree. Fear of losing your kids who are supposed to take care of you when you're old is a biggie. Especially when the threat of losing them in the face of an A is constantly thrown at you by the BS throughout the M.

[bittersweet memories]

Fooled... I have to disagree with this:

 

He would move MOUNTAINS to be with the one he loves...

 

If you had to choose between your children or the AP... who would you choose.. I honestly think that many MM do stay for the love of their children..

 

 

Yea! Keep believing that to make yourself feel better.

[Lizzie60]

Yea! Keep believing that to make yourself feel better.

 

 

I think it's the opposite actually.. BS likes to think that they won't leave because they love them more than the OW.. why do you think they would take such a chance to lose what they have.. if they didn't love the OW?

[bittersweet memories]

I think it's the opposite actually.. BS likes to think that they won't leave because they love them more than the OW.. why do you think they would take such a chance to lose what they have.. if they didn't love the OW?

 

 

Their Actions speak louder than words:D