Evidence shows the majority of MM's do NOT leave their wives for the OW.

[Lizzie60]

Their Actions speak louder than words:D

 

 

Yea! Keep believing that to make yourself feel better

 

[bittersweet memories]

Yea! Keep believing that to make yourself feel better

 

 

 

 

Its true..

 

Thats the best you can do...

[seren]

I think it's the opposite actually.. BS likes to think that they won't leave because they love them more than the OW.. why do you think they would take such a chance to lose what they have.. if they didn't love the OW?

 

But isn't there a difference between no strings love and love based in reality? If the AP loved the OP more then they would leave, no? I suppose we all have a different expectation of what love is. I couldn't share my H with anyone, hence his actions on D Day to never contact OW again. if that is love it isn't any kind of love I recognise.

[pureinheart]

Nope.. I'm not in therapy.. and I'm not considering it.. because I don't think there is anything wrong with having many lovers.. married or single...

 

I am single... therefore free like a bird..

 

what's wrong with having fun in life.. I've been in relationships most of my life.. so at my age.. (57) I think I deserve some pleasures... and no string sex is one of those pleasure of life..

 

Wow, I thought the "60" was your year of birth...you are an extremely young 57, in fact thinking that you were 50 or about to be, though you were a young 50...

 

It's your wording, the "tone" in your words...overall attitude in wording that gave me that impression...your doing great BTW....

[White Flower]

Yea! Keep believing that to make yourself feel better.

We're not talking beliefs, we're talking facts. The 'kids' are often used as threats. Glad to know you wouldn't stoop to that level.

[White Flower]

I for one am saddened by the fact that I won't be around to enjoy a society that has evolved enough to embrace and support infidelity.

I think you are seeing it but that's just me.

 

Originally Posted by White Flower

This is the true meaning of love, isn't it? Knowing that someone stays with us without a contract, assets, and offspring to support a lifelong R? Your MM is one lucky man and I hope you told him I said so.

 

 

What do you mean by "stays with us"? Your MM lives with you?

 

How exactly is he "with" you?

 

I did not say he lives with me. I said that the true meaning of love is when one stays (is loyal to) with someone without a contract, assets, and offspring to support a lifelong R. Spouses can argue until the cows come home but the truth is if I am loyal to someone without having those three things my love appears truer than someone who does have all that. I am not legally bound yet my heart is there anyway. To me, that is true love.

[White Flower]

Exactly what obscure evolving society do you live in where BS can take your children away from you because you have an affair?

 

I'd like to learn more about this society, it is unlike any that I'm familiar with. It's certainly very different from the society I live in in the United States.

 

What a strange place you must live in!

I don't know if you're reading my posts correctly or not but you seem to misunderstand me throughout this thread.

 

I said, "I agree. Fear of losing your kids who are supposed to take care of you when you're old is a biggie. Especially when the threat of losing them in the face of an A is constantly thrown at you by the BS throughout the M."

 

Which means that some spouses like to constantly make the threat that if left, the children will be infuenced to follow the one who is left behind. I saw my SIL do this from the time my nephew was born. 23 years later, she did exactly that. My adult nephew sided with his mother because he'd basically been brainwashed to do so. Many MM hear this kind of threat throughout their M and it is a valid concern for them. You read about it everyday. Heck, you probably know at least one family where this has happened. It is an ugly tactic (to keep the wandering spouse) that hurts the entire family.

[White Flower]

Truly Delusional!

Please point out in which way.

 

Are you saying that you believe someone can only truly love you so long as there is a M contract, kids, and assets? If so, I feel sorry for you. Good luck with that!

[pureinheart]

I am not sure how you interpreted this statement. The one size generalization? Pretty much all of these things do follow a similar pattern, and can be generalized and the results are pretty much predictable for most cases. And did I copy some statement? Yes, its right from chapter 7 of OW handbook....

 

Referring to the "monumental waste of energy" . I am wasting years of my life trying to recover from my wifes infidelity that had very little to do with me. That is why I come here to try and find meaning for her behaviour. I would not be here otherwise. I am compelled to seek answers from something that has no answer and is based on irrational and selfish behaviour. I am lookin for a glimmer of meaning that will allow me to exonerate her. Can't find it in any of the remarks or attitudes of OW who post here. The deal is that as a result of my wifes affair I end up hurt and will lose a good chunk of my self for absolutely no real reason. That sucks big time, but that is life. I am learning a lot about human nature and it is interesting but it is not enriching my life at all, on the contrary it has diminished my life. And by seeing the brokeness of the cheating, heartless people who post here I understand a little more each day. It really is a waste of time though.

 

Don't mean to barg in RWE, although I saw your reply and saw some of me in what you have to say.

 

First I am sooooo sorry for your pain, and I realize that is little comfort, although I really do mean well for you. This just reinforces what I have known to be true concerning men...IMO men take infidelity harder ...ladies, BW's I am not minimizing your pain by any means, I just have hung out with men most of my life and have found most men to be not as jacked up as possibly some out there think. Men are EXTREMELY sensitive, although have better skills at handling things in certain cases...JMO ....k.... (RWE, the ladies are gonna get me...lol)

 

First bold: No, you are not wasting anything, you have learned much. What doesnot kill us makes us stronger.

 

Second bold: There is an answer, people are human and therefore make mistakes. You said the A had little to do with you...if there was anything that might have contributed to the breakdown of the M then you have learned a valuable lesson, whether she has or not is not your concern...you want the best for you, and in having the best for you, you are being honest and becoming an even better person.

 

RWE, there could be things in your ex?W's past that you have no knowledge of, such as molestation and other issues that have been known to lead to promiscuity....I am not sure though as I don't know your entire story, only what you have replied in this particular post.

 

Third bold: Forgive her and realise that we all fall so very short...when you are able as it will be healthier for you.

 

Forth bold: I mostlikely won't change your mind, although is there a possibility that you are seeing some of the posters through the anger/hurt you carry for your WS....actually most of what I read here on LS whether I agree or not has helped me greatly, it has helped with giving me stamina....

 

I have been all of the above, BS, WS and was in an EA. Every story is different and all are equipped with their own ways of thinking and this is a world wide discussion forum, which is wonderful because it gives me points of view that I might not otherwise have been exposed to.

 

I know you might think I am either on some really good sh*t or totally crazy...lol...although try when it is possible to use this as a possitive learning experience....I know how weird this must sound....how can anything that has hurt you so bad be possitive, right? Well, what the enemy has meant for my destruction, God will turn it to my good...He will use my enemies as my footstool. Now in the midst of the pain and heartache, I do not "feel" this way, although when I come out of the situation meant for my destruction and see how things turn out, I see how much better my life is.

 

I have good days and bad days....you are in my thoughts and I hope things get better for you...please keep us updated even though you feel the way you do...k....

Edited February 12, 2010 by pureinheart

[bittersweet memories]

Please point out in which way.

 

Are you saying that you believe someone can only truly love you so long as there is a M contract, kids, and assets? If so, I feel sorry for you. Good luck with that!

 

 

I feel sorry for you!! Im not the one having an affair with a MM, Im not the one waiting for my MM to leave his wife. Im not the one making excuses for him the he's in his marriage for the kids. For goodness sake this is the USA he has rights, he can divorce and have visitations thru court if necessary. He's doesn't leave because he chooses not too.

[White Flower]

I feel sorry for you!! Im not the one having an affair with a MM, Im not the one waiting for my MM to leave his wife. Im not the one making excuses for him the he's in his marriage for the kids. For goodness sake this is the USA he has rights, he can divorce and have visitations thru court if necessary. He's doesn't leave because he chooses not too.

Please stick to the topic. You still didn't answer my question. But I see that was never your goal, just to mudsling.

 

FTR, he will not have to go to court for his adult children. He will have to find a way to win them over after his W tries her best to influence them during and after D. I don't need to conciliate you though. I am here to discuss this topic with others who actually wanted to discuss it, not mudsling those who are really discussing it.

[pureinheart]

I believe the gene for sociopathy is found only in males.

 

Ok, at the total risk of being the biggest dumb as* for sincerely asking this question...lol (please keep in mind I am hung over, was very stressed yesterday and broke out the freaking wine).

 

WF, is this true....*very squeemish tone*.....

[anne1707]

I believe the gene for sociopathy is found only in males.

 

Ok, at the total risk of being the biggest dumb as* for sincerely asking this question...lol (please keep in mind I am hung over, was very stressed yesterday and broke out the freaking wine).

 

WF, is this true....*very squeemish tone*.....

 

No it's not true. Women can be sociopathic too however it is more likely in men. There are more technical sites detailing this but for now:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/11/spotting_a_sociopath.html

 

 

And if you want a technical reference (sorry that I could not find one quickly on non-criminal activity):

 

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/127/3/303

[moaningmyrtle]

I don't know if you're reading my posts correctly or not but you seem to misunderstand me throughout this thread.

 

I said, "I agree. Fear of losing your kids who are supposed to take care of you when you're old is a biggie. Especially when the threat of losing them in the face of an A is constantly thrown at you by the BS throughout the M."

 

Which means that some spouses like to constantly make the threat that if left, the children will be influenced to follow the one who is left behind. I saw my SIL do this from the time my nephew was born. 23 years later, she did exactly that. My adult nephew sided with his mother because he'd basically been brainwashed to do so. Many MM hear this kind of threat throughout their M and it is a valid concern for them. You read about it everyday. Heck, you probably know at least one family where this has happened. It is an ugly tactic (to keep the wandering spouse) that hurts the entire family.

 

You seem to frequently make this point WF.

 

Why do you think that somehow a BS (who may be father or mother) is able to influence or brainwash children, when a WS who also may be of either gender does not have that ability? Isn't it the WS who has shown the greater ability to influence/brainwash their family by having the secret A in the first place?

 

What's more in the example you cite it seems to have started long before any infidelity took place. Do you think that somehow both parents know in advance who is going to be the BS and who the WS and the putative BS starts this brainwashing/influencing long before?

 

Frankly I don't agree. I think that children once they are of a certain age are able to make their own judgments about who has hurt who and whether or not they want to have continued contact with the WS.

 

It just seems to suit some people (OW in particular I've noticed) to believe that the BW will be adversely influencing/brainwashing children rather than that children are reacting to whatever devastation has been inflicted on them by a parent.

 

One of the hardest to fathom things for me about my H's A was that his own father had an A and left his mother and my H refused to speak to his father fore more than 10 years afterwards. My MIL had to intervene to prevent my H from returning a birthday present to his Dad. My H only started to speak to his father again once it was obvious that his father was leaving the OW and returning to his first wife (my H's mother).

 

I know my H was terrified that his own sons would treat him the same way as he had treated his father. My H knew that his own mother had not brainwashed him and nor had I brainwashed our kids. They like him, had minds of their own.

[pureinheart]

No it's not true. Women can be sociopathic too however it is more likely in men. There are more technical sites detailing this but for now:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/11/spotting_a_sociopath.html

 

 

And if you want a technical reference (sorry that I could not find one quickly on non-criminal activity):

 

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/127/3/303

 

OMG, the first article...no words...anyway thanks Anne...yes I had done some investigations concerning socipaths when dating a particular individual, although none were of gender, or at least no specific gender was mentioned....

 

Incredible isn't it...one of my friends was abused sexually by his father from the time he was a baby until the age of 16. I picked up on some unusual behavior shortly after meeting him and asked him if he had been sexually abused...please keep in mind this was not easy as he did hide it well, I am extremely atunned to this and would say it is a gift due to me being molested.

 

He lied at first and I looked at him right in the eye...he broke down and told me his story....omg....I seriously wanted to hurt someone bigtime.

 

His father is a sociopath to a tee....his mother was in denial...I confronted the entire issue...I threatened that if his mother did not tell the proper authorities homegirl was gonna freak out and it would not be pretty...last I knew it was under investigation.

 

The entire family hid this well...nobody knew anything on the outside...sick.

Edited February 12, 2010 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

Which means that some spouses like to constantly make the threat that if left, the children will be infuenced to follow the one who is left behind. I saw my SIL do this from the time my nephew was born. 23 years later, she did exactly that. My adult nephew sided with his mother because he'd basically been brainwashed to do so. Many MM hear this kind of threat throughout their M and it is a valid concern for them. You read about it everyday. Heck, you probably know at least one family where this has happened. It is an ugly tactic (to keep the wandering spouse) that hurts the entire family.

 

Frankly I don't agree. I think that children once they are of a certain age are able to make their own judgments about who has hurt who and whether or not they want to have continued contact with the WS.

 

It just seems to suit some people (OW in particular I've noticed) to believe that the BW will be adversely influencing/brainwashing children rather than that children are reacting to whatever devastation has been inflicted on them by a parent.

 

One of the hardest to fathom things for me about my H's A was that his own father had an A and left his mother and my H refused to speak to his father fore more than 10 years afterwards. My MIL had to intervene to prevent my H from returning a birthday present to his Dad. My H only started to speak to his father again once it was obvious that his father was leaving the OW and returning to his first wife (my H's mother).

 

I know my H was terrified that his own sons would treat him the same way as he had treated his father. My H knew that his own mother had not brainwashed him and nor had I brainwashed our kids. They like him, had minds of their own.

 

In your case Moaning you didnot try to turn your kids against their father, although I see it a lot, or have seen it. In fact exMM/friend was terrified to leave because of that. To make a really long story short, his exW did turn the kids against him and the kids were privy to sensitive info, I mean such as to their sexual situation and she was graphic about it...not cool.

 

At first the kids did take sides and his ex W would "excommunicate" any kid talking to him....finally the kids told her to get over it as the control was broken. Now exMM and exW are communicating concerning the kids and it is good communication.

 

It does happen and it must be a very scary thing....

[RedDevil66]

Yea! Keep believing that to make yourself feel better.

 

I agree with all you've said in here,

 

Deep down, someone knows their actions are despicable, they will justify it to no end.

 

Cheating is wrong in any form.........EVERYONE knows this, but when someone is in the throws of the sickness of denial, you cannot shake them out of it.

 

When I was a cheater with a MM, I would have agreed with WF and Lizze and defended my actions til death.

Then one either comes out of the fog and realizes the reality or stays in the fog cause it's safer there.

Facing reality is a tough job which few like to really do

 

But love your efforts :-)

 

And WF, the reason why north america DOES NOT embrace cheating is because it's an action that causes pain. I like to believe causing pain to others is unacceptable and since it's part of the human condition to not accept lies. pain and deception, it is not acceptable.

Since when should lying be acceptable?

In Europe, sure affairs are more prominate, but do you think in Europe, BS's are not suffers as much.

Human emotion is ALL the same.

Of course you want cheating to be more acceptable in NA, why so you can justify what you're doing!

 

The world of affairs is delusional. It truly is a sad existence. I lived it, I know and there was NOTHING pretty about it.

 

But my words won't chance anything. You need to live through the mess to either learn or continue in pain.

[RedDevil66]

We slide down a slippery slope when we believe 'most cheaters don't leave' after hearing about just one example.

 

Does anyone have stats? I'm trying to get through this whole thread and so far there are no stats.

 

Come on now, do you really need to see official stats to prove that most affairs never pan out well.

 

re read LS for the past 5 yrs and make your own stats. I can be sure, you will see it's a VERY VERY small % of people who leave their spouses for the other person.

 

My example is just one of MANY that I personally know of.

But my ex of 11 yrs did leave me for his OW, but only after I refused him back 10 times. And when he found out she gave him HIV. He had no choice but to marry her.

They lived happily ever after.

So there's ONE that I know of that left :-)

Satisfied now?!

[willowfields]

it does happen more often then you think. i know of it least in my own personal circle 5 couples that have met and married through affairs. it is not something that you hear about. my husbands parents are one of the couples who met and married from an affair.

[jennie-jennie]

Come on now, do you really need to see official stats to prove that most affairs never pan out well.

 

re read LS for the past 5 yrs and make your own stats. I can be sure, you will see it's a VERY VERY small % of people who leave their spouses for the other person.

 

My example is just one of MANY that I personally know of.

But my ex of 11 yrs did leave me for his OW, but only after I refused him back 10 times. And when he found out she gave him HIV. He had no choice but to marry her.

They lived happily ever after.

So there's ONE that I know of that left :-)

Satisfied now?!

 

HIV! Uhh, then you were lucky you did not take hime back! A close scare.

[Lizzie60]

Wow, I thought the "60" was your year of birth...you are an extremely young 57, in fact thinking that you were 50 or about to be, though you were a young 50...

 

It's your wording, the "tone" in your words...overall attitude in wording that gave me that impression...your doing great BTW....

 

 

Thank you... eveybody tells me that I don't look my age.. I don't feel my age either.. but I HATE it..

[Got it]

My MM left when he was ready to leave. When the marriage was at a point where he felt that was the best option. Their relationship is a little different as there is infidelity on both sides.

 

I think what needs to be tempered is a lot of HOW's and HOM's do not seek out forums to post on as they have no need to seek support. I do not think this forum is a good clear cross section of OP's and the outcome with their MP.

 

Also most dating relationships do not end up as "successful" (if one defines successful as marriage). What the statistics do not show are those that are happy with the relationship while the other person is married, if they are separated but not divorced but living with the OP, etc. With the overall divorce rate at over 50% there are quite a few couples in the US who are just not marrying.

 

And I can counter what another poster said and my sMM and I are very happy right now during his separation. I was not happy being an OW and I was very upfront with that. We had an agreed upon timeline where I would walk but was willing to give him to get things in order. But I was always happy with the relationship, the time I got, support, love, etc.

[RedDevil66]

HIV! Uhh, then you were lucky you did not take hime back! A close scare.

 

The story is long and crazy so I'll spare you, but yes, I was VERY lucky!

[Leia]

My late cousin's fiance left his then-wife for her although all of us didn't see it that way since she told him to come back to her when he has done the right thing with his wife. They would have been married by now if she didn't pass away a few months ago.

 

I don't think that happens often. I can tell that if you're still stuck with the married man for more than one year than I doubt he's going to leave his wife, ever. Just from what I have seen around here.

[crazycatlady]

This is an interesting thread. I have a good friend who pretty dislikes his wife. Sometime he actively hates her, and sometimes he is just indifferent. But he is afraid to divorce because he is worried she will take his child who he adores back to her home state and he won't see his child much after that. She would definately use his child against him in a divorce. I've heard her say that. We have tried to be friends with both of them, but watching how she treats my friend was too hard and now we just tend to chat online because the temptation to tell her to grow up hits me very strong when I was around her. My friend has cheated on her a couple of times, but he tried hard not to in the beginning. He tried counciling, both together and individual. But with the threat of losing his child hanging over his head, he's not going to divorce her. He's already paying child support for a high school mistake - well more a slipup because he adores his kid and doesn't think of him as a mistake. So he doesn't want to add more child support and probably alimony - and she would go for it and because he is not a ruthless individual she would probabl get it for a while at least either.

 

So simply saying get a divorce isn't easy. I also have more then a few divorced friends who were screwed by their wives, who do not get to see their kids very often because of the divorce. So saying that because we live in the US that it doesn't happen does not make it true.

 

H and I have talked about how we would handle things if we didn't work out because we have seen so much ugliness with people we knew getting divorced. Children are weapons used against the other partner. Its disgusting but it happens.

 

CCL