Evidence shows the majority of MM's do NOT leave their wives for the OW.

[bittersweet memories]

Exactly, I think your attitude is very common.

 

The OW whose MM claim they are afraid of the BS using their children against them...might they be lying as an excuse not to leave?

 

Gee, that couldn't possibly be the case.

 

 

B.I.N.G.O...

[GreenEyedLady]

Aside from statistics it seems the MM that end up leaving for the OW do so very quickly. The longer the relationship goes on makes the MM's marriage more tolerable. Like most have said on this board if they REALLY wanted to leave they would have already done so.

 

My parents were both married to other people at the time they met and within 3 months were living together getting divorced and married each other 1 year later. They are still married.

 

You know I think of most of the MM who did leave the M, it took quite awhile before they left. The exception are those who had exit A's and I don't think there really are many of those.

 

MM don't leave for a longshot. They have to be sure. Because there is alot at stake.

 

Mine didn't separate until we had been together 3 years. You can't get your ducks in a row over night.

 

GEL

[ladydesigner]

Mine didn't separate until we had been together 3 years. You can't get your ducks in a row over night.

 

Yes I do see your point. I know I would be that way if I were planning on leaving my H, it would take a while.

[jennie-jennie]

 

Yes, the resident 3%er.

 

For every one of you, there are 33 OW whose MM will never leave.

 

Where's the evidence to the contrary? YOU? One out of how many?

 

The so called 3% study doesn't seem to have been published in scientific journals. It is based upon interviews done for a book, Quiet Desperation: The Truth About Successful Men by dr Jan Halper. The paperback version was published in 1989 - more than 30 years ago. I presume these are the reasons it is difficult to find information about it online.

 

The business executives in this study were extremely unfaithful. 88% had affairs compared to 24% for the average man in 1998 and 60% for the average man of today. Could it be that many of them were having one night stands and shorter flings just because they could because of their status and their money?

[jennie-jennie]

 

You want statistics? Where do you think the term "3%er" came from? Less than 3% of affairs end in marriage between the AP's. It's very rare.

 

[*]Very few affairs end in marriage. According to one large study of business men who had affairs, only 3 percent of the men married their lovers.)))

 

A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.

 

"Less than 3% of affairs end in marriage between the AP's" is not the same as "Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers" by the way, since "only" 88% of them had affairs. Nor the same as "Only 3% of those who left their wives did so for their mistresses" which is stated in yet another article (Love by numbers by dr Luisa Dillner). It seems unclear what was really measured once upon a time.

Edited February 13, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

 

The so called 3% study doesn't seem to have been published in scientific journals. It is based upon interviews done for a book, Quiet Desperation: The Truth About Successful Men by dr Jan Halper. The paperback version was published in 1989 - more than 30 years ago. I presume these are the reasons it is difficult to find information about it online.

 

The business executives in this study were extremely unfaithful. 88% had affairs compared to 24% for the average man in 1998 and 60% for the average man of today. Could it be that many of them were having one night stands and shorter flings just because they could because of their status and their money?

 

The bolded above should obviously read "more than 20 years ago".

[GreenEyedLady]

 

Yes, the resident 3%er.

 

For every one of you, there are 33 OW whose MM will never leave.

 

Where's the evidence to the contrary? YOU? One out of how many?

 

So you agree, I am one in a million.

 

I guess that that means that there are 33 wives who will be spying on their H's and "hoping" that they don't have another d-day...

 

I bet that's what you hope, because you care far too much in your posts about roasting the OW.

 

As for my evidence, well, let's look at the divorce rate: 60%. Let's look at the percentage of people who admit they've actually had an A: 53%. Let's look at the number of people in real life who I know have left their M for another person: well over 3% and actually more like 40%.

 

Honey: even divorce lawyers will tell you that most of the clients they see have someone waiting in the wings.

 

So cross your fingers and hope you're not in that 60%.

 

GEL

[bittersweet memories]

 

 

So cross your fingers and hope you're not in that 60%.

 

GEL

 

Unfortunely it can also apply to you since you are now married.

[GreenEyedLady]

Unfortunely it can also apply to you since you are now married.

 

Not worried, sweetie.

 

So just go on with your spying self...

 

GEL

[bittersweet memories]

Not worried, sweetie.

 

So just go on with your spying self...

 

GEL

 

Yea, sure no worries...;)

[moaningmyrtle]

Hmm.. guess who posted this only recently:

 

"I find the scathing and degrading tone to posters obviously in pain and looking for help morally objectionable."

 

I agree with this sentiment BTW.

[jennie-jennie]

 

The so called 3% study doesn't seem to have been published in scientific journals. It is based upon interviews done for a book, Quiet Desperation: The Truth About Successful Men by dr Jan Halper. The paperback version was published in 1989 - more than 30 years ago. I presume these are the reasons it is difficult to find information about it online.

 

The business executives in this study were extremely unfaithful. 88% had affairs compared to 24% for the average man in 1998 and 60% for the average man of today. Could it be that many of them were having one night stands and shorter flings just because they could because of their status and their money?

 

I finally found an article by someone who has actually consulted the books behind the statistics quoted all over infidelity sites concerning extramarital relationships. The article is “Will the MLCer Marry the Alienator?” in STANDING FOR YOUR SWEETHEART (issue 20010-6, March 20, 2010). (Interesting date, huh? Seems to be predated.) (MLC stands for MidLife Crisis.) Noteworthy is also that the book sources used in the article date from 1988, 1989 and 1996.

 

You can read about the so called “3% study” here, which as I pointed out earlier was a survey which “focused on high-level career professionals” with an above average percentage of WS: 82%.

 

I would like to clarify what is said about Anette Lawson and her survey in her book ADULTERY – AN ANALYSIS OF LOVE AND BETRAYAL:

 

Barely 50% of the WS in Lawson's survey got a divorce. Of these 50% 10% proceeded to marry their lover, which is the same as saying that 5% of the WS divorced and then subsequently married their lover.

 

Now bear in mind that Lawson bases her study on questionnaires completed by people for whom she advertised in London newspapers – which is not the same as a random segment of the population.

 

There are many things to take into consideration when judging the validity of any given statistical number. Among them is the size of the study/survey. I found information that 600 white middle-class people were the ones who answered Lawson's questionnaire. 100 of them were subject to a deeper interview. This does however not fit with the information given in the article “Given the number of liaisons in total, these forty-seven serious affairs represent barely 2 percent of all liaisons.”. Confusing to say the least.

 

Also I wonder how many WS feel like I know my MM does. If he ever actually gets a divorce, he is never going to marry again, because he does not want to risk finding himself once again in the situation of feeling obliged to stay with one person while loving another.

 

I think it is fair to conclude with this statement from the author of the article: “The statistics vary and I have found only book sources rather than formal surveys of statistical collections of data.” We obviously lack reliable statistics on this subject.

Edited February 13, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[White Flower]

Maybe because you're with a MM....DUH!

That would be cute if your version of my story was real. But it's not so it's not.

[White Flower]

 

So you agree, I am one in a million.

 

I guess that that means that there are 33 wives who will be spying on their H's and "hoping" that they don't have another d-day...

 

I bet that's what you hope, because you care far too much in your posts about roasting the OW.

 

As for my evidence, well, let's look at the divorce rate: 60%. Let's look at the percentage of people who admit they've actually had an A: 53%. Let's look at the number of people in real life who I know have left their M for another person: well over 3% and actually more like 40%.

 

Honey: even divorce lawyers will tell you that most of the clients they see have someone waiting in the wings.

 

So cross your fingers and hope you're not in that 60%.

 

GEL

I am quoting GEL just in case LS is messed up again today.

 

GEL, thanks for putting the numbers in persepective.

 

Catapult, I DO appreciate the post with the stats but I rarely take a one-source-meets-all stat to support an opinion. No offense to the OP if I'm speaking out of step here but I'm thinking she hoped many stats would have appeared on this thread so that we could weigh them all together to make a more informed opinion but we only got a couple and it has been pointed out that those were questionable.

 

I like GELs post here because it weaves in common sense. Thanks GEL.

 

FTR, my own lawyer thought I might have someone waiting in the wings simply because I asked him when my D date would be final. I ran into him the other day and when asked how I'm doing he was surprise to learn that I am still single. He sees it too often, and expects most D people to have someone waiting in the wings. He happens to be an 'old school' lawyer, a bigwig in my city.

[White Flower]

 

I think it is fair to conclude with this statement from the author of the article: “The statistics vary and I have found only book sources rather than formal surveys of statistical collections of data.” We obviously lack reliable statistics on this subject.

Thank you Jennie-jennie for quoting the author, an expert in the field of infidelity and EMRs, who states what I've been saying throughout this thread. It is very difficult to get true stats due to the nature of the R being illicit and hidden. When MPs leave for APs it is often not reported because of the stigma attached. For this reason, it is difficult to get any real statistic.

 

But we will always have the opinionated, that is the reliable quotient of LS.

[seren]

The MP only ever leaves their marriage for themselves. We are all inherently selfish and want the best for ourselves. I just wish that all involved were singing from the same hymn sheet and had the same choices. In A's it is only the AP who has a foot in all camps, all others are depending on what they are told to make sense of their situations, as for statistics - it depends on who is conducting the research for what end and who is reading what to support whatever it is they want supporting.

I worked in govt and believe me I have skewed more research papers than I care to admit.

It doesn't really matter who leaves who and for what. The constant OW/BS comparisons are just pointless. Whatever way you look at it, they are either going to leave because they have fallen in love with someone else, in which case lets hope it's early on. They stay because they love the person they are married too, let's hope they are going to be honest about this. They leave both because they love neither enough and themselves more. Oh and the old chestnut, they stay because of the kid, dog, house, money blah blah - not they stay because it's what works for them.

[jennie-jennie]

Actually, I prefer leaving before cheating but the trend is proving us wrong isn't it? And FWIW, our society is the last among the world to accept As as a regular part of society. It is widely accepted around the world because those societies are older and slightly more evolved. We're still so puritanical in the US.

 

Oh boy...sigh.

 

When did I ever say I wanted cheating to be more acceptable? Please re-read the post. I said it was inevitable that society would evolve as it has in other cultures. We are the last frontier here in the US so we are still very puritanical. My post was a commentary on social change, the levels of acceptance, and where our culture fits in those realms. It was not a post on personal preference.

 

Being a citizen of one of these "older societies" and also being in frequent contact with US citizens, I can only agree. Very interesting to hear an American express the same outlook on this as I have.

[OWoman]

Wow. I cannot wrap my mind around this type of thinking. You honestly believe you have a "right" to have a relationship with someone who made vows and is married to someone else?

 

No one forced the MM to marry his wife, did they? There is a thing called free will.

 

I don't know what to say. I find this attitude shocking.

 

Let's say you found an apartment you really, really loved, but someone else was renting it. Do you think you have the "right" to move into that apartment just because you love it as much as the current occupant?

 

Or what if you wanted a certain position at work but it was already taken by someone else. Do you think you have the right to take that position away from the person who has it simply because you really, really would love to have that job?

 

If you're going to live in society you have to follow certain guidelines. People just can't do what they want and take what they wish because they want it really, really badly. That is selfishness to the extreme.

 

Likening a person to an asset like an apartment that has no agency or free will? I find that attitude shocking!

 

For this analogy to have any currency at all it would require the apartment to be alive, to advertise itself and find another, better tenant that it preferred to its current tenant and to house that preferred tenant during times when the official tenant was out - say at work. I don't personally know of any apartments that do that of their own free will, but perhaps on some planets that's been known to happen. Certainly not here on earth....

[OWoman]

Its hidden because the MM/MW chooses to keep you a secret...You are Hilarious!!

 

Perhaps your MM kept you as his dirty hidden secret, but none of my MMs ever did. Generalising from a single instance is very bad science - rather, it's what's known as prejudice.

[bittersweet memories]

Perhaps your MM kept you as his dirty hidden secret, but none of my MMs ever did. Generalising from a single instance is very bad science - rather, it's what's known as prejudice.

 

 

If you say so.

[Cliche]

Likening a person to an asset like an apartment that has no agency or free will? I find that attitude shocking!

 

I wish I could say I was shocked by that type of analogy, but I'm not. It's a property interest, and that is exactly how many individuals view marriage.

 

OWs don't break up marriages, the people in the marriage break up the marriage...either because they grow apart or they take each advantage of one another of they break promises to each other that leads to the end of the relationship. If there's an OW (or OP) involved, it is mostly incidental. I think if most spouses would step back and understand that, they'd stop looking at the OW as a threat. An OW cannot make a man leave a marriage he doesn't want to leave. And the lack of an OW won't make a man stay in a marriage he doesn't want to be in (feel free to replace OW with OM and man with woman. It's just that men don't seem to feel as threatened by OMs as women seem to be by OWs).

[Cliche]

And I am sure that exit affairs, which tend to lead to relationships after divorce, are higher than 3%.

 

I'd also fall in that one in a million with GEL and OWoman. As would about half of the people I know personally who have gone through a divorce. I know many individuals who have been happily married for years or even decades whose relationships began as "affairs." I'm not advocating affairs. They are complicated and painful, and I think all parties are best served by full breaks (divorce) before entering another relationship. But people don't always take the easiest road. Furthermore, if one spouse wants a divorce and the other isn't ready, the pain is going to be just as awful and the feelings of betrayal just as painful whether or not a sexual or emotional partner was involved in the ultimate break-up. This is all just part of being an adult.

[Cliche]

Sorry to triple post. I just want to add that I hope my comments aren't taken in the wrong manner. If women would stop the BS/OW competition, we'd be able to talk to each other reasonably and keep our discussions focused on the problems with the WS/MM instead of what we incorrectly see as failings in one another. It is the person who makes a betrayal who is accountable ultimately.

[Got it]

While reading your post and seeing what you had written about the person who makes the betrayal being ultimately accountable....I agree but yet we are all accountable to ourselves also. Most OW/OM, (not all) look back on their affairs and realize that they betrayed themselves.

 

Just my 2 cents.........

 

But I think you have to look at any number of failed relationships and see if that is a common thought? I think, for a lot of OW, that is the kneejerk reaction. I think it comes down to disappointment for gambling on a relationship and it not working out. I think a lot of people, OW/BS/MP, etc find it easier to focus on external forces than neccessarily the dynamics of the relationship.

 

And you are absolutely correct, we are accountable to ourselves and should not cross our boundaries or allow for our needs not to be met.

[Got it]

I wish I could say I was shocked by that type of analogy, but I'm not. It's a property interest, and that is exactly how many individuals view marriage.

 

OWs don't break up marriages, the people in the marriage break up the marriage...either because they grow apart or they take each advantage of one another of they break promises to each other that leads to the end of the relationship. If there's an OW (or OP) involved, it is mostly incidental. I think if most spouses would step back and understand that, they'd stop looking at the OW as a threat. An OW cannot make a man leave a marriage he doesn't want to leave. And the lack of an OW won't make a man stay in a marriage he doesn't want to be in (feel free to replace OW with OM and man with woman.

 

Spot on! I am in 100% agreement!