Evidence shows the majority of MM's do NOT leave their wives for the OW.

[theycallmeprincess]

Every A is different. The MM is different, the OW is different, the MM's BW is different, the MM's M is different, and the dynamic is different. So there's no One Size Fits All answer to any of that, but I suspect there are some general points that can be distilled out of the "success stories" <snip>

 

 

 

Thank you OWoman for taking the time to reply, I appreciate your insight and answer. Also, thank you to the other posters who replied with relevance to my inquiry.

 

Thank you Jennie Jennie and White Flower for having the conviction and courage to keep posting, even when there are those who seem to take delight in knocking you down.

Edited February 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[jennie-jennie]

This is the true meaning of love, isn't it? Knowing that someone stays with us without a contract, assets, and offspring to support a lifelong R? Your MM is one lucky man and I hope you told him I said so.

 

I did tell him so! I read your post to him and he said: "Tell her I know she is right. I am a lucky man!"

[crazycatlady]

The adult children is the reason why my FIL went back to my MIL. My H treated it as it wasn't his business but my brother in law was awful to my FIL. And MIL tried actively to get both my H and myself to side with her and to compaign to get FIL to go back to her. Too many details were shared with the children, and the active campaign by her to turn the kids against him, to force him to return was, to be honest, rather disgusting.

 

You are so in denial if you think kids aren't used as weapons to keep a spouse from leaving. But then some of your posts lead to be beleive you are in lala land anyway. Either that or I want some of what you are smoking.

 

CCL

[bittersweet memories]

The adult children is the reason why my FIL went back to my MIL. My H treated it as it wasn't his business but my brother in law was awful to my FIL. And MIL tried actively to get both my H and myself to side with her and to compaign to get FIL to go back to her. Too many details were shared with the children, and the active campaign by her to turn the kids against him, to force him to return was, to be honest, rather disgusting.

 

You are so in denial if you think kids aren't used as weapons to keep a spouse from leaving. But then some of your posts lead to be beleive you are in lala land anyway. Either that or I want some of what you are smoking.

 

CCL

 

Its funny you say that.. because i was thinking the same thing about many OW here. Many seem to be in denial and are in lala land. Still waiting for Mr. Wonderful after sooo many years and nothing yet. Sorry but thats denial and its very sad.

[NoIDidn't]

The title of this thread is true. The MAJORITY of MM do NOT leave their marriages, be it for the OW or any other reason.

 

The stats also bear out that second and subsequent marriages fail far more often than first time marriages.

 

The moral of this story? If you want a MM to leave his marriage for you, make sure its his second, or third, or fourth....you get the picture, marriage.

[White Flower]

You seem to frequently make this point WF.

 

Why do you think that somehow a BS (who may be father or mother) is able to influence or brainwash children, when a WS who also may be of either gender does not have that ability? Isn't it the WS who has shown the greater ability to influence/brainwash their family by having the secret A in the first place?

 

What's more in the example you cite it seems to have started long before any infidelity took place. Do you think that somehow both parents know in advance who is going to be the BS and who the WS and the putative BS starts this brainwashing/influencing long before?

 

Frankly I don't agree. I think that children once they are of a certain age are able to make their own judgments about who has hurt who and whether or not they want to have continued contact with the WS.

 

It just seems to suit some people (OW in particular I've noticed) to believe that the BW will be adversely influencing/brainwashing children rather than that children are reacting to whatever devastation has been inflicted on them by a parent.

 

One of the hardest to fathom things for me about my H's A was that his own father had an A and left his mother and my H refused to speak to his father fore more than 10 years afterwards. My MIL had to intervene to prevent my H from returning a birthday present to his Dad. My H only started to speak to his father again once it was obvious that his father was leaving the OW and returning to his first wife (my H's mother).

 

I know my H was terrified that his own sons would treat him the same way as he had treated his father. My H knew that his own mother had not brainwashed him and nor had I brainwashed our kids. They like him, had minds of their own.

No, I don't frequently make this point, it is just a point I made on this thread and I find myself having to defend myself in it over and over by those who refuse to see there definitely are types of BS who would use this tactic.

 

In answer to the first bolded question is no, the WS doesn't brainwash. He/she gasllights and avoids but I wouldn't call his tactics brainwashing.

 

The answer to the second bolded question is yes, I think it was a self-fulfilled prophecy in that case; however, it was not due to an A. Alcoholism fueled other tendencies and it was always planned, on the W's part, to keep her child to herself should there ever be a D. We heard it for over 20 years, 'I will make sure he will never lay eyes on his son again!'. Hearing that over and over may have been a huge factor in leaving her!

 

The third bolded statement I agree with. I reassure MM every day that his children will not fall for that tactic.

 

With regard to the fourth bolded statement. It does not suit me at all; it is just a factor in my triangle, so there is no 'belief' in it. I wish it weren't so.

 

The fifth bolded statement is hard for me to fathom as well. My father cheated and I was held it against him a long time but I never took it to the extreme your H did. That baffles me. Perhaps he feels he understands his father now?

 

I'm glad you didn't take the tactic of influencing your children to exclude their father from their lives. It sounds like you are above tactics like that.

[White Flower]

Come on now, do you really need to see official stats to prove that most affairs never pan out well.

 

re read LS for the past 5 yrs and make your own stats. I can be sure, you will see it's a VERY VERY small % of people who leave their spouses for the other person.

 

My example is just one of MANY that I personally know of.

But my ex of 11 yrs did leave me for his OW, but only after I refused him back 10 times. And when he found out she gave him HIV. He had no choice but to marry her.

They lived happily ever after.

So there's ONE that I know of that left :-)

Satisfied now?!

Nope. I prefer weighing my knowledge with export advice and stats, sorry.

[White Flower]

it does happen more often then you think. i know of it least in my own personal circle 5 couples that have met and married through affairs. it is not something that you hear about. my husbands parents are one of the couples who met and married from an affair.

I also know many persoanally as well as those I've met here on LS. The reason you don't see people posting about it or talking about it IRL is because of the stigma attached to the A preceeding the M. I'm sure GEL or OWoman don't stand around at parties discussing the A years. JMHO.

[White Flower]

My late cousin's fiance left his then-wife for her although all of us didn't see it that way since she told him to come back to her when he has done the right thing with his wife. They would have been married by now if she didn't pass away a few months ago.

 

I don't think that happens often. I can tell that if you're still stuck with the married man for more than one year than I doubt he's going to leave his wife, ever. Just from what I have seen around here.

Hey Leia, nice to see you posting again!

 

My guess is that you don't see it around LS that often because LS is like a diary. I usually write in my diary when something is really bothering me. I will thumb through it from time to time and notice that I rarely write about the wonderful times. My friends agree that they don't either. I guess we are too busy enjoying those times, living them to their fullest. When we are down, confused, or looking for answers we focus on putting them on paper or here.

 

And then there is the fun of debating. That has been addicting!

 

ps

I miss Lyssa.

[White Flower]

I did tell him so! I read your post to him and he said: "Tell her I know she is right. I am a lucky man!"

Great, now get your MM to call my MM and tell him HE is a lucky man:cool:.

 

Just kidding. I'm glad he knows.

[White Flower]

Every A is different. The MM is different, the OW is different, the MM's BW is different, the MM's M is different, and the dynamic is different. So there's no One Size Fits All answer to any of that, but I suspect there are some general points that can be distilled out of the "success stories" <snip>

 

Thank you OWoman for taking the time to reply, I appreciate your insight and answer. Also, thank you to the other posters who replied with relevance to my inquiry.

 

Thank you Jennie Jennie and White Flower for having the conviction and courage to keep posting, even when there are those who seem to take delight in knocking you down.

You're so welcome. I keep asking for stats and expert advice but those who have boxing gloves on don't deliver. Oh well, I guess their own opinions matter most to themselves when it comes to debate. It wouldn't work in their college classes.

Edited February 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[jennie-jennie]

Great, now get your MM to call my MM and tell him HE is a lucky man:cool:.

 

Just kidding. I'm glad he knows.

 

You know, WF, from what I have seen of you on LS, I believe he is!

[White Flower]

You know, WF, from what I have seen of you on LS, I believe he is!

He is and he knows he is:)

[jennie-jennie]

The title of this thread is true. The MAJORITY of MM do NOT leave their marriages, be it for the OW or any other reason.

The stats also bear out that second and subsequent marriages fail far more often than first time marriages.

 

The moral of this story? If you want a MM to leave his marriage for you, make sure its his second, or third, or fourth....you get the picture, marriage.

 

Except if your MM is a lost-and-found love from your past. In that case a second or subsequent marriage between you two only holds a 1.5% risk of divorce within 5 years. Pretty good odds, huh, compared to normal divorce stats.

[White Flower]

So then, the man who goes home and sleeps with his wife every night is loyal to YOU?

 

Alrighty then.

It amazes me how much you want to see in each post. No, still, I did not say that. I can't waste my time answering every silly little post you make. Sorry.

[White Flower]

No I actually don't know anyone who has had this happen to them, but then again, everyone I know is actually educated and not stupid enough to believe nonsensical threats thrown about in anger.

 

It is NOT a valid concern, it's complete nonsense.

 

No one can take your children away from you. Get a grip.

I didn't say a person can legally take the children away from the other spouse. But they may have a psychological/emotional hold on the other that permeates throughout the life of the M. If you don't understand that I must ask how old and how experienced you are.

[White Flower]

The adult children is the reason why my FIL went back to my MIL. My H treated it as it wasn't his business but my brother in law was awful to my FIL. And MIL tried actively to get both my H and myself to side with her and to compaign to get FIL to go back to her. Too many details were shared with the children, and the active campaign by her to turn the kids against him, to force him to return was, to be honest, rather disgusting.

 

You are so in denial if you think kids aren't used as weapons to keep a spouse from leaving. But then some of your posts lead to be beleive you are in lala land anyway. Either that or I want some of what you are smoking.

 

CCL

I'll join you CCL:cool:

[White Flower]

Pardon me for saying so, but your FIL is a 'wus.

 

I've never heard such tripe in my entire life. Furthermore, who would WANT a spouse they had to threaten to stay with them?

 

Did it ever occur to you that some children actually find a cheating parent revolting without any prodding from the BS?

 

What a bunch of baloney...

Then you must not be very old nor very experienced. Just as I suspected.

[crazycatlady]

Pardon me for saying so, but your FIL is a 'wus.

 

I've never heard such tripe in my entire life. Furthermore, who would WANT a spouse they had to threaten to stay with them?

 

Did it ever occur to you that some children actually find a cheating parent revolting without any prodding from the BS?

 

What a bunch of baloney...

 

I do think my FIL is a wus for that and many other reasons, but that's neither here nor there. His relationship with his children means the world to him. While my H refused to give in to MIL's effort to get him to harass FIL to come back and question him constantly and refuse to back down - I was there listening to her wage this war - my BIL was her willing voice in that fight. But as I know BIL, he wouldn't have done what he did without her prompting and egging that behavior on, some of it yes he would have, but not to the extent that it happened. She used her children - or at least tried -as a weapon to keep FIL home and succeeded because of it. I was thankful we were 3100 miles away by that time.

 

And while that is the closest I've dealt with this type of situation, children being used as weapons happens. It happens.

 

As for the OW here being delusional? Most of them I think have taken a realistic view and have decided what they can and cannot accept. I can understand it personally. In some ways, don't we all decide what we can and can not accept and then just go from there when it comes to love and relationships?

 

CCL

[White Flower]

I am 50, married over 2 decades, have children and have professional experience in family law.

 

I'll ask you again, what makes you think a parent needs to influence a child into thinking that the cheating parent is a rat?

 

Most children come to that conclusion all by themselves. Parents don't have as much influence as you think when it comes to pitting a child against the other parent, especially older children.

What makes me think a parent needs to influence a child into think that a cheating parent is a rat? That is a loaded question so let's break it down.

 

I don't think, I know that some parents try to influence kids agains the other. At your age, I am astonished that you claim you have never heard of this tactic. Amazed, actually. At 50? Really???

 

And even if the kids choose to look at the WS as a 'cheating rat' that is their choice. It should not be an influence from the BS in my opinion. My exH cheated and I never influenced my kids to look upon their father as a rat. D is enough stress on the kids. To inflame it with any other influence is just adding to that stress.

[moaningmyrtle]

No, I don't frequently make this point, it is just a point I made on this thread and I find myself having to defend myself in it over and over by those who refuse to see there definitely are types of BS who would use this tactic.

 

In answer to the first bolded question is no, the WS doesn't brainwash. He/she gasllights and avoids but I wouldn't call his tactics brainwashing.

 

The answer to the second bolded question is yes, I think it was a self-fulfilled prophecy in that case; however, it was not due to an A. Alcoholism fueled other tendencies and it was always planned, on the W's part, to keep her child to herself should there ever be a D. We heard it for over 20 years, 'I will make sure he will never lay eyes on his son again!'. Hearing that over and over may have been a huge factor in leaving her!

 

The third bolded statement I agree with. I reassure MM every day that his children will not fall for that tactic.

 

With regard to the fourth bolded statement. It does not suit me at all; it is just a factor in my triangle, so there is no 'belief' in it. I wish it weren't so.

 

The fifth bolded statement is hard for me to fathom as well. My father cheated and I was held it against him a long time but I never took it to the extreme your H did. That baffles me. Perhaps he feels he understands his father now?

 

I'm glad you didn't take the tactic of influencing your children to exclude their father from their lives. It sounds like you are above tactics like that.

 

One of my points was that it is not just BSs who have an inherent ability to influence their children against the WS. In fact I believe that BSs do this because they can not just because it is part of their particular type.

 

If the opposite spouse were instead the BS they too might do this. In other words the straying spouse is in a much weaker position and it doesn't take much for any children adult or not to see the situation themselves.

 

In my own marriage I admit I realised early on that I could attempt this. I am going to be honest and say that I told my H that if he and I split up and somehow he was with the OW then I would do nothing to facilitate the relationship of our children with the OW and would tell them the truth about her. I also made it clear that I expected him to tell our children the truth too. He did tell them the truth anyway even though we are still together and I know that in some way this has helped maintain a good relationship between them even though at first they were angry at him.

 

I suspect I would have actually felt more guilty about undermining any relationship between my H and the OW, than she ever did about her adverse impact on our marriage.

 

I would never try to prevent my H and sons seeing each other if we split up. I know it was easy for my H to ignore his own father because his father left and went to live on the other side of the country with the OW and then thy moved to the USA. My H never even got an invitation to the wedding. (he was about 21 years old at the time)

 

I really think there is nothing intrinsic to BSs that enable them to somehow adversely influence children of any age against the WS. It is in fact something the WSs often manage to do all by themselves with a little assistance from the OW/M.

[White Flower]

I do think my FIL is a wus for that and many other reasons, but that's neither here nor there. His relationship with his children means the world to him. While my H refused to give in to MIL's effort to get him to harass FIL to come back and question him constantly and refuse to back down - I was there listening to her wage this war - my BIL was her willing voice in that fight. But as I know BIL, he wouldn't have done what he did without her prompting and egging that behavior on, some of it yes he would have, but not to the extent that it happened. She used her children - or at least tried -as a weapon to keep FIL home and succeeded because of it. I was thankful we were 3100 miles away by that time.

 

And while that is the closest I've dealt with this type of situation, children being used as weapons happens. It happens.

 

As for the OW here being delusional? Most of them I think have taken a realistic view and have decided what they can and cannot accept. I can understand it personally. In some ways, don't we all decide what we can and can not accept and then just go from there when it comes to love and relationships?

 

CCL

Very true. In fact, we do this will ALL Rs including Ms!!! It is all negotiable.

[moaningmyrtle]

Exactly, I think your attitude is very common.

 

The OW whose MM claim they are afraid of the BS using their children against them...might they be lying as an excuse not to leave?

 

Gee, that couldn't possibly be the case.

 

Perhaps the MM is trying to spare the OW from the knowledge that his BW might make things difficult, not by using the children against him personally, but by refusing to help the children accept the new partner in his life.

 

If my H and I split up, painful as it would be, I would help/encourage my sons to accept any new partner. But I would make an exception if that new partner is the OW who broke up our family. He would be on his own there.

[ladydesigner]

Aside from statistics it seems the MM that end up leaving for the OW do so very quickly. The longer the relationship goes on makes the MM's marriage more tolerable. Like most have said on this board if they REALLY wanted to leave they would have already done so.

 

My parents were both married to other people at the time they met and within 3 months were living together getting divorced and married each other 1 year later. They are still married.

[GreenEyedLady]

First you ask for statistics, then when they are provided, you discount them because they don't support your interests.

 

Let us know when your MM marries you, then we can add you to the database.

 

Well you can add ME to your database right now.

 

And it seems you suffer from Pot Meet Kettle Syndrome. You've argued this entire thread that MM do not leave M's for AP's and when faced with evidence to the contrary, you dismiss it or try to invalidate it.

 

I agree with OWoman's post.

 

GEL