Where the term 'gaslighting' comes from

[Angel1111]

My ex would at times tell me what my feelings were, and even when he was incorrect he was sure he was the one who was right. A very bad experience when someone claims they know what your emotions are better than you yourself. Also he would continually tell me to give him space, physical space, that I had to check on his mood before showing him affection - you know any hugs or kisses or so. Do these things go under gaslighting? They sure felt bad enough. The first part I described felt like it was threatening my mental health.

 

I don't think those things would be called gaslighting, but I'm glad you're able to call him your ex.

 

Maybe the thing about telling you how you feel could be a form of gaslighting. But that's only effective if you buy into it. You already know how you feel, so someone telling you that you feel otherwise is obviously not true just based on knowing firsthand how you feel. Ok, now I'm confused. ..

Edited February 12, 2010 by Angel1111

[bentnotbroken]

:(Gaslighting is one of the most horrible forms of abuse one can perpetrate on another, especially someone they say they love or once loved. In the instance of A's to look into the face of the person you have children with and purposely try to make them question their sanity is sick. To look into the face of the children you have with that person and know that you are trying to unhinge them in the name of an A is despicable. This type of behavior can go on for years depending on the length of the A. It is said many times how is a BS doesn't know what is going on, here is one explanation. This is what happened in my case. Already having some mental issues, he knew exactly what buttons to push. And in my case so did the ow.

 

The affects of this abuse doesn't end when there is a d-day or the marriage ends. It affects how you view all future situations and relationships. When do you learn to trust your own judgement again? With the help of a a very good counselor I feel as if I am well on my way, but so many don't get that opportunity. They will remain in a vulnerable state. They will either let others decide for them all choices because they don't trust themselves or they will go the opposite way and trust no one systematically killing all future relationships.

 

As a previous poster said, I don't understand how someone can be with a person who willing does this to another human being and stand by on the sidelines watching all for the joy of whatever it they believe they get from it. There are always other options to any situation if one looks hard enough without such destruction.

 

If I could sue for Mr. Messy for anything, gas lighting would be it. Hell, I think he should have jail time for that one, especially already knowing somethings that he did.

[freestyle]

I never heard the term "gaslighting" mentioned in Al-Anon. I was just wondering whether this term applies to my ex. Are you saying you have read about gaslighting in Al-Anon's literature?

 

My ex would at times tell me what my feelings were, and even when he was incorrect he was sure he was the one who was right. A very bad experience when someone claims they know what your emotions are better than you yourself. Also he would continually tell me to give him space, physical space, that I had to check on his mood before showing him affection - you know any hugs or kisses or so. Do these things go under gaslighting? They sure felt bad enough. The first part I described felt like it was threatening my mental health.

 

 

Hey JJ

 

What you described sounds like a form of emotional manipulation, a controlling behavior.

 

Anytime someone attempts to define you, based on the presumption that

they know you better than you know yourself, it's an attempt to control you. By controlling the framework of a conversation, not allowing you to express your own mind.

Withholding affection is also a controlling behavior...(leave 'em wanting more....) and it's definitely a form of emotional abuse.He had you tip-toeing around his moods to get your needs met.

 

While I'm not an expert,I have been on the receiving end of gaslighting, which prompted me to read up on it extensively.IMO, gaslighting is a calculated attempt to make a person question their own mental faculties, and grasp of reality.Sometimes it's done for truly evil reasons, but I think what happens most often is that a cheating SO uses it to cover up their infidelities.......where the WS doesn't intend to cause psychological or emotional damage, they just want to get away with their cake-eating.

 

Based on what you described with your ex, it sounds like he was emotionally abusive and controlling, manipulative, etc.Which could make you feel like your mental health was being threatened. How could it not?

(been there, done that, BTW) I guess determining whether or not it was gaslighting all boils down to the intent behind the abuse.

 

I'd like to recommend checking the 2nd link I posted in this thread.If you look on the list on the right side of the page, there's another link entitled,"Emotional Manipulation-Skilled Controller".....I believe that might apply to your previous experience.

 

I'm very sorry you had to go through that, I know how painful and disconcerting it can be.

[Lizzie60]

I watched the movie last night on YouTube. Don't read this paragraph if you don't want to know details about it. It wasn't too bad, considering that it was done in the 40's. Some of it was a little corny but it was ok, and yes the husband was creepy. It took me a little while but I finally recognied Angela Lansbury as one of the servants. I saw later that it was her first movie and she turned 18 during filming (like Kristen Stewart did while filming Twilight). As someone mentioned, he was cheating on his wife, but his main goal was to find his wife's aunt's jewels (the aunt that he murdered). He wasn't in the house next door, he was in the attic of their house, but he got to it by going to the back of the building. While he went out, he would play around with the gas that went to the house and caused it to go down and then he'd bring it back up again later (we never see him do this but it's implied).

 

I guess you could take the analogy of 'gaslighting' to mean a deliberate (and pre-meditated) form of trickery.

 

Thanks, freestyle, for letting me know I could watch it on YouTube. That was pretty cool. Now I'll never forget the whole concept behind this term.

 

How do you watch the full movie.. I only saw a trailer.. I'd love to see it.

Thanks.

[Angel1111]

How do you watch the full movie.. I only saw a trailer.. I'd love to see it.

Thanks.

 

Just go to YouTube and search on 'gaslight'. A few things will come up but you'll recognize the old black-and-white movie. It's broken up into 13 parts. It moved really smoothly, though, and was easy to watch.

[Lizzie60]

Just go to YouTube and search on 'gaslight'. A few things will come up but you'll recognize the old black-and-white movie. It's broken up into 13 parts. It moved really smoothly, though, and was easy to watch.

 

 

OK . thanks... I'll go check..

[jennie-jennie]

I don't think those things would be called gaslighting, but I'm glad you're able to call him your ex.

 

Maybe the thing about telling you how you feel could be a form of gaslighting. But that's only effective if you buy into it. You already know how you feel, so someone telling you that you feel otherwise is obviously not true just based on knowing firsthand how you feel. Ok, now I'm confused. ..

 

Yes, you already know how you feel, but the twisting of your mind when someone you care for is asserting something else as the truth. It was excruciating. Then I went on a trip with my parents and my mom did the exact same thing. I actually did get sick eventually - in OCD.

 

 

Hey JJ

 

What you described sounds like a form of emotional manipulation, a controlling behavior.

 

Anytime someone attempts to define you, based on the presumption that

they know you better than you know yourself, it's an attempt to control you. By controlling the framework of a conversation, not allowing you to express your own mind.

Withholding affection is also a controlling behavior...(leave 'em wanting more....) and it's definitely a form of emotional abuse.He had you tip-toeing around his moods to get your needs met.

 

While I'm not an expert,I have been on the receiving end of gaslighting, which prompted me to read up on it extensively.IMO, gaslighting is a calculated attempt to make a person question their own mental faculties, and grasp of reality.Sometimes it's done for truly evil reasons, but I think what happens most often is that a cheating SO uses it to cover up their infidelities.......where the WS doesn't intend to cause psychological or emotional damage, they just want to get away with their cake-eating.

 

Based on what you described with your ex, it sounds like he was emotionally abusive and controlling, manipulative, etc.Which could make you feel like your mental health was being threatened. How could it not?

(been there, done that, BTW) I guess determining whether or not it was gaslighting all boils down to the intent behind the abuse.

 

I'd like to recommend checking the 2nd link I posted in this thread.If you look on the list on the right side of the page, there's another link entitled,"Emotional Manipulation-Skilled Controller".....I believe that might apply to your previous experience.

 

I'm very sorry you had to go through that, I know how painful and disconcerting it can be.

 

Thanks, freestyle, I will look into that. It helps when someone else verifies it was abuse, even if you already knew it was.

[jennie-jennie]

Not trying to defend my MM, as I think it is the wrong thing to do as well, but he generally lies through omission rather than direct lies. In my opinion this is not gaslighting, since I interpret gaslighting as denying the reality of what the BS sees as real and in fact is reality. Gaslighting makes you not trust your senses. A lie through omission would mean you are not aware of the circumstances.

[Confused4Now]

Not trying to defend my MM, as I think it is the wrong thing to do as well, but he generally lies through omission rather than direct lies. In my opinion this is not gaslighting, since I interpret gaslighting as denying the reality of what the BS sees as real and in fact is reality. Gaslighting makes you not trust your senses. A lie through omission would mean you are not aware of the circumstances.

In my opinion lying by omission is so passive aggressive behavior its not even funny. I'm sure its been discussed in the forum before.

[jennie-jennie]

In my opinion lying by omission is so passive aggressive behavior its not even funny. I'm sure its been discussed in the forum before.

 

I understand that. I am just questioning whether or not it can go under gaslighting.

[Spark1111]

Passive-agressive behavior can also demonstrate that someone avoids conflict at all costs and can be successfully used as a cover for a very weak ego; as are lies of omission under the guise of what you (the victim)doesn't know can't hurt you.

 

It is a deflection of the ego to the pain they have caused another; it is self-protective as opposed to altruistic.

 

Gas-lighting is more intentional; similiar to insisting "We're just friends," after a 1.5 year affair, thousands of texts and cell calls, and trips away together.

 

Not knowing I knew it all at that point, my WS assertion that he and his OW were "just friends," was deliberate, hence gas lighting.:rolleyes:

[pureinheart]

My ex used to do this, and what's worse is people actually bought his bullsh*t.

 

There is a special place in hell for people like that.

 

 

You got that right!!!!!!!!! I've had many do that to me...this is a very interesting thread!!!!

[pureinheart]

The movie is absolutely great.

 

The lead actress, Ingrid Bergman did a fabulous portrayal of a woman slowly transforming from a confident young woman who thinks she is in love with the man of her dreams, into someone so lost she is doubting her own sanity.

 

AND the end, when she realizes what he is doing......whooooooo!!

 

Now I'm gonna have to see it.....

[pureinheart]

opps, Only saw this now. Same site as I just posted

 

Lots of good info on there

 

Excellent sites RD and FS....thank you sooooo much....sounds to me like it's much about Narcissim...

[pureinheart]

I saw this movie as a child and it stays with me today as one of the most accurate accounts of social evil I have come across.

 

I knew on LS what they meant by gaslighting straight away.

 

It's a circumstance that takes the victim as first viewpoint. That victim knows they are being taken in, but have enough trust and doubt in their own mental well-being to question.

 

In the film, the WH tells the BS that the lights were off (gaslights) but in fact left them on himself. It is a metaphor for affairs, that has become part of the language - gaslighting = telling someone you were at home when you know they were off with another W/M. The gaslightee has to confront the idea that they are mad, or that their spouse is a complete and utter ...In fact, this is the same choice for many.

 

And in As I would say the extent of the gaslighting goes hand in hand with the lack of forgiveness. Because that driving someone mad is knowing and unforgivable.

 

And it is at the root of why As are so difficult to get over.

 

Watch the film. It's a thriller. Evil better than freddie ever knew.

 

The other player deliberately plays on the ensuing paranoia. To the extent that they want their victim to feel like they are are going mad. I believe in the film the protagonist wishes their W to commit suicide, I don't remember how it ends. I just remember being shocked as a kid.

 

In the A situation, the AP says everything is OK, though the BS knows gut reaction it isn't.

 

My sons exGF M a man that everyone said was abusive, they said it was bad, beyond what we could imagine. My son stayed in contact here and there through mutual friends, and would hear what was going on....

 

We just went to her sevice, she committed suicide. OMG WR....OMG...she was a beautiful girl...OMG

[Angel1111]

My sons exGF M a man that everyone said was abusive, they said it was bad, beyond what we could imagine. My son stayed in contact here and there through mutual friends, and would hear what was going on....

 

We just went to her sevice, she committed suicide. OMG WR....OMG...she was a beautiful girl...OMG

 

Oh, wow!!!!!!! That is SO sad. I'm really sorry to hear about this.

[Angel1111]

Now I'm gonna have to see it.....

 

Honestly, I thought the ending was pretty cornbally (is that a word?). But, we're talking 1944 here.

[pureinheart]

I've come to learn more about gaslighting than I wanted to know from my Al Anon groups and literature.

 

What I've be told and see is that not all forms of gas lighting are intended. Some people (especially addicts) suffer severe forms of inadequacy and will unconsciously gaslight in order to save their fragile egos.

 

When it's intended, this is when it becomes evil.

 

I need to see this movie

 

OMG....how do you know which is what? I told my therapist once that my mind felt like it was being twisted into a pretzel.

 

My God RD...I suffer mostlikely from inadequacy, I don't feel like the greatest all of the time and I do in my terms "flip out", meaning get mad....although I would rather be happy and encourage, you know?

 

I need to understand the difference, as this could be really bad....

[pureinheart]

Oh, wow!!!!!!! That is SO sad. I'm really sorry to hear about this.

 

Everyone said he pushed her to it...I understand how that can happen, although was still confused a bit as to the tactic....now with your thread have no doubt and will definitly pass this on...thanks Angel

 

Honestly, I thought the ending was pretty cornbally (is that a word?). But, we're talking 1944 here.

 

You know, that movie back then was trying to send out a message for us today....

[pureinheart]

Passive-agressive behavior can also demonstrate that someone avoids conflict at all costs and can be successfully used as a cover for a very weak ego; as are lies of omission under the guise of what you (the victim)doesn't know can't hurt you.

 

It is a deflection of the ego to the pain they have caused another; it is self-protective as opposed to altruistic.

 

Gas-lighting is more intentional; similiar to insisting "We're just friends," after a 1.5 year affair, thousands of texts and cell calls, and trips away together.

 

Not knowing I knew it all at that point, my WS assertion that he and his OW were "just friends," was deliberate, hence gas lighting.:rolleyes:

 

On your end he is saying "friends", on her end he is saying "whatever"....both gaslighting...

 

Spark, you would be surprised (or possibly not) how much this goes on in all R's, meaning all types of R's....this is truely scary.

 

When you put together the entire picture, meaning everything that everyone has said in this tread...well my brain hurts (not kidding)...the truth does in fact set one free, although it hurts at first.

 

Ok...now that preditor has gaslighted (smoke screened) his victim, now he can ingeneously use other methods, such as tramatic bonding, emotional blackmail ect....

 

Excellent post Spark...

[jwi71]

I understand that. I am just questioning whether or not it can go under gaslighting.

 

I'm sorry..is he lying by omission to you or his W?

[jennie-jennie]

I'm sorry..is he lying by omission to you or his W?

 

Well, if he was lying by omission to me, I would not notice it now, would I?

 

He is lying by omission to his wife. Once when he was talking to her on the phone in front of me, he did have to lie to her directly, and he was very bothered by it. So he told me this was very rare, he usually lies to her by omission, and apparently it is so much easier on his conscience.

[pureinheart]

Anytime someone attempts to define you, based on the presumption that

they know you better than you know yourself, it's an attempt to control you. By controlling the framework of a conversation, not allowing you to express your own mind.

Withholding affection is also a controlling behavior...(leave 'em wanting more....) and it's definitely a form of emotional abuse.He had you tip-toeing around his moods to get your needs met.

 

While I'm not an expert,I have been on the receiving end of gaslighting, which prompted me to read up on it extensively.IMO, gaslighting is a calculated attempt to make a person question their own mental faculties, and grasp of reality.Sometimes it's done for truly evil reasons, but I think what happens most often is that a cheating SO uses it to cover up their infidelities.......where the WS doesn't intend to cause psychological or emotional damage, they just want to get away with their cake-eating.

 

Based on what you described with your ex, it sounds like he was emotionally abusive and controlling, manipulative, etc.Which could make you feel like your mental health was being threatened. How could it not?

(been there, done that, BTW) I guess determining whether or not it was gaslighting all boils down to the intent behind the abuse.

 

I'd like to recommend checking the 2nd link I posted in this thread.If you look on the list on the right side of the page, there's another link entitled,"Emotional Manipulation-Skilled Controller".....I believe that might apply to your previous experience.

 

I'm very sorry you had to go through that, I know how painful and disconcerting it can be.

 

FS, this entire thread has opened my eyes, and I broke it off with Mr. firebug last night...this is what has been happening to me and I've explained it away so much....many excuses...it is why I was so sensitive to OW/OM....I can understand what is going on all to well.

 

BBNB, you and I mostlikely don't agree about much, although there is one thing I KNOW we agree on and that is a man will reap what he sows....oh, I too wanted to put this B in his place and felt jail was a good place for him, and I too wanted to sue him for the pain and heartache ....we DID NOT deserve it, nor did we ask for it....gaslighting is a whole different ballgame and I see that....Bent, the man that abused you in this fashion will answer for it at some point in time, it is cruel and inhuman.

 

I am in councelling, in fact have a team of them....my abuse has been so extensive that that is what it takes...and I will do what it takes to be as healthy as possible.

 

I will be strong and confident, I will be a nice person, because I like being a nice person and having fun, joking and have always been a people person until Mr. firebug....the match is on him now....

[White Flower]

I think gaslighting is the worst form of abuse, but from the posts I've read here over the years, the OPs seem to think that the ends (getting the MP to leave the marriage for them, spend time with them in the A, etc, around the A) justify the means.

 

I could never be okay with knowing the person that I was *dating* was doing that to ANYONE in their lives, let alone the person they were married to. Its one of the first red flags you mark in a person: the way they treat others that they have Rs with.

I will make a rare confession here that this is what caused me to tell MM it's over or make a decision. I suddenly could see clearly the ways he was gaslighting his W. I told him I didn't want to see him that way and turning a blind eye wasn't going to help me. He was so good in every other aspect of his life except this and I didn't want 'this' to carry on. I knew he could do better and asked him to be better. That meant us being over or him leaving. Funny, I never thought I would ask him to do that.

[White Flower]

:(Gaslighting is one of the most horrible forms of abuse one can perpetrate on another, especially someone they say they love or once loved.

I once told MM that he was messing with his W's intuition. Heck, any woman he gaslighted including his daughter had an inuition not fully sharpened due to his crafty work.

 

I made him see that. He is dealing with it in counseling now.