CarrieT Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 You asked for the opinion of the ladies. Well, I am a woman in her 40-ies. Sex is very important for me in a relationship. And I don't want sex outside of a relationship; it just does not work for me. Unfortunately I am single and have been single for longer times in my life, so I am and I have been sexless a lot more than I wanted. On the other hand, I read here stories all the time of men who are married to women who are not interested in sex. All I can think is: "Damn it, these women have a man available for sex but they don't want it." All I can say is that if I would have a nice, attentative partner who does his share for the practical things, and takes good care of himself, I would not refuse to have sex with him. As a matter of fact, I would thank the good lord on my bare knees every evening for having such a great partner. Concur. I'm am SO in your shoes too, honey! It blows me away that so many women "don't put out" while many of us single, middle-aged women would give our eye-teeth for a caring man who wants to have sex. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Her answer is basically that it takes so much effort and energy for her to get to the point to be ready for sex which she enjoys very much. The only way as a man I can understand this is by thinking it's like having to climb a long and steep hill for her, and when she get to the top (ready for sex) it all down hill and easy and enjoyable......but climbing that hill first......there is the problem. And I should say that it's not all physical. I really think this is BS. Don't know but feeling sexual is something which does not take a lot of effort I think. I mean, it's little things which make one feel sexual. Taking a shower, wearing nice underwear, giving your partner a hug, touching his skin,kissing,... It seems to me that your wife simply has a problem to feel sexual. Has sex always been such a struggle for you or was it easier and more frequent before? Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I don't fear for my life like many here:p...... You have gone on and on about your wonderful relationship with your wife, and believe me, we here are very happy there is someone (a male) on LS with a great relationship...... Your advise on the surface makes great sense..... It is crucial a man take care of himself and be happy...... But you have banged the same drum for 7 odd months and I still am waiting for that breakthrough by someone on this site who says they implemented your strategies to wonderful success...... Sorry just has not seemed to have taken here........ No one's seemed to have succeeded and I hate to say, but Lizzie60 may be right after all...... Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 ISo I try the best I can to figure out when is a good time. Well, if she would truly be a good partner, she would actively create times where sex is OK for her and a lot more often than now. I think your wife is simply not interested in sex. Unless she sees a need to do something about that, nothing will happen. And if you will stop asking her for sex, she will feel relief since she apparently has never managed to see sex as fun and not as a chore. Honestly this makes me furious. Because I know a lot of such women are married and seen the fact that I am single who really would like to be in a relationship (because I've got a lot to give), I find this unfair. Ladies, I'm not asking a lot I don't think. I love my wife and would like to be intimate. I don't like to think in terms of frequency numbers but I think you might agree that when frequency is measured in months.....there is a problem. There are few men that you can find to be more caring and understanding than me I can assure you of that. I am at a point where I can no longer continue as the SOLE partner here trying to make sure we have intimacy in our marriage. What you want seems absolutely normal to me. But the problem is that if your wife does not want to change her approach to sex, there is nothing you can do. Link to post Share on other sites
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 That is not an easy question. Let me say that intimacy is a very important part of my married life and the lack of more frequent intimacy is cause of a lot of angst for me. Let me also say that there are so many other important parts of being married where my wife excels is so many ways. She possess so many great qualities in a wife. Maybe if her sexual needs were in line with mine, would I venture to say I might have found the "perfect" wife? Well yes I probable would have. Because I never find myself wishing she were different is other ways. So the question boils down to whether I would be willing to look call it quits because she is not perfect. No I don't think I would. Maybe some guys are different? It all depends on how important sex is in ones life. This answer sounds so perfect. Almost what I would want my own Son-in-law to say to my daughter if she had lost all intrest in sex (this would be 25+ years down the road though. Is this TRULY HOW YOU FEEL? In the deepest of pshyce, you are willing to live like this INDEFINTELY? I can see how it would be possible. No need to end the marriage just because you are not getting enough sex. But at the same time, I know there is now way I could do it... Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I sure have asked that question after it comes up (and absolutely tell her we should do it more ofter). Her answer is basically that it takes so much effort and energy for her to get to the point to be ready for sex which she enjoys very much. The only way as a man I can understand this is by thinking it's like having to climb a long and steep hill for her, and when she get to the top (ready for sex) it all down hill and easy and enjoyable......but climbing that hill first......there is the problem. And I should say that it's not all physical. It's like gym... it's a drag to get there.. but once you start, it's OK... it's to get there... Methink she has become a 'lazy' lover.. simple as that.. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Well, if she would truly be a good partner, she would actively create times where sex is OK for her and a lot more often than now. I think your wife is simply not interested in sex. Unless she sees a need to do something about that, nothing will happen. And if you will stop asking her for sex, she will feel relief since she apparently has never managed to see sex as fun and not as a chore. Honestly this makes me furious. Because I know a lot of such women are married and seen the fact that I am single who really would like to be in a relationship (because I've got a lot to give), I find this unfair. What you want seems absolutely normal to me. But the problem is that if your wife does not want to change her approach to sex, there is nothing you can do. First bold: totally agree with this.. well said.. Second bold: total 'BS'... you would get to the same point after 20+ years... this is easy to say for a single woman.. My sex drive hit the roof when I became single.. ;) but I know for sure.. that I would become 'bored' like most women, and sex would become a chore if I'm with the same man for soooo many years... it's life.. we are NOT wired like men are... (for sex)... Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 There ARE guys who post they succeeded - and ALL of them did what Lizzie mentioned - they put the whole marriage in question. They stood up for themselves. And the smart ones don't demand more sex - they demand honesty on why there is little/no sex. And then they make a decision. Every single time you post there are two parts: 1. It makes you angry that all these women including your wife are not very sexually generous. AND 2. But luckily for you, most other guys have it even worse so you can console yourself with the thought that if we were in a competition you are doing better than average for sure and maybe even a lot better than average. Most guys your age, income, fitness level and social skills demand fair treatment from their wives. You can't possibly believe that LS is a representative sample of men in general or men in your specific socioeconomic strata. And frankly you know what happens to those men when they end it - they get GF's who are all over them - like your friends have. And the wives - well whole other story. Your wife included - attractive as she is would not find another guy like you to marry her. She would have to hope a mid to late fifties guy would court her and the demographics on that are very poor. Decent chance she either doesn't remarry or does so to a guy without a good job - her financial stress completely and totally changes for the rest of her life. Most guys like you - playing a straight flush like you are - are NOT afraid to go ALL IN. I don't fear for my life like many here:p...... You have gone on and on about your wonderful relationship with your wife, and believe me, we here are very happy there is someone (a male) on LS with a great relationship...... Your advise on the surface makes great sense..... It is crucial a man take care of himself and be happy...... But you have banged the same drum for 7 odd months and I still am waiting for that breakthrough by someone on this site who says they implemented your strategies to wonderful success...... Sorry just has not seemed to have taken here........ No one's seemed to have succeeded and I hate to say, but Lizzie60 may be right after all...... Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 There ARE guys who post they succeeded - and ALL of them did what Lizzie mentioned - they put the whole marriage in question. They stood up for themselves. And the smart ones don't demand more sex - they demand honesty on why there is little/no sex. And then they make a decision. Every single time you post there are two parts: 1. It makes you angry that all these women including your wife are not very sexually generous. AND 2. But luckily for you, most other guys have it even worse so you can console yourself with the thought that if we were in a competition you are doing better than average for sure and maybe even a lot better than average. Most guys your age, income, fitness level and social skills demand fair treatment from their wives. You can't possibly believe that LS is a representative sample of men in general or men in your specific socioeconomic strata. And frankly you know what happens to those men when they end it - they get GF's who are all over them - like your friends have. And the wives - well whole other story. Your wife included - attractive as she is would not find another guy like you to marry her. She would have to hope a mid to late fifties guy would court her and the demographics on that are very poor. Decent chance she either doesn't remarry or does so to a guy without a good job - her financial stress completely and totally changes for the rest of her life. Most guys like you - playing a straight flush like you are - are NOT afraid to go ALL IN. What advice from Lizzie60???? She just compared love to a prune (shrivelling up).... She tells everyone, their wives may love them, but they don't lust for them and sex is a chore...... You on the other hand seem to come across (probably you don't mean too) as a bully, willing to blackmail your wife to look at herself and decide whether having sex is worth saving a marriage for. My wife given that choice would think herself a prostitute, laying on her back for a paycheque (i.e. satying in the marriage).... Sorry no thanks...... Again mem11363 I am calling a truce between our back and forth. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 What advice from Lizzie60???? She just compared love to a prune (shrivelling up).... She tells everyone, their wives may love them, but they don't lust for them and sex is a chore...... You on the other hand seem to come across (probably you don't mean too) as a bully, willing to blackmail your wife to look at herself and decide whether having sex is worth saving a marriage for. My wife given that choice would think herself a prostitute, laying on her back for a paycheque (i.e. satying in the marriage).... Sorry no thanks...... Again mem11363 I am calling a truce between our back and forth. How do you know how women think? I speak (and I'm certain) for MOST women who have been married to the same man for 20+ years... I've been there.. I had discussions on that matter with lots of women (friends, evening courses, family, co-workers)... Please don't insinuate that you know 'female' psychology.. because obviously you have no clue.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PKB57 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 This answer sounds so perfect. Almost what I would want my own Son-in-law to say to my daughter if she had lost all intrest in sex (this would be 25+ years down the road though. Is this TRULY HOW YOU FEEL? In the deepest of pshyce, you are willing to live like this INDEFINTELY? I can see how it would be possible. No need to end the marriage just because you are not getting enough sex. But at the same time, I know there is now way I could do it... Let me reverse the situation: What is I had to chose between my wife as is or.............A woman that provided me sex 2 times a day BUT could not hold a job, is a poor mother, sloppy house keeper, cant cook, little intelligence, cant hold a conversation.....the list goes on. Which would I choose? lol Link to post Share on other sites
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Let me reverse the situation: What is I had to chose between my wife as is or.............A woman that provided me sex 2 times a day BUT could not hold a job, is a poor mother, sloppy house keeper, cant cook, little intelligence, cant hold a conversation.....the list goes on. Which would I choose? lol hmmm.... tough choice! lol Link to post Share on other sites
VENUS1 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I didn't read anything about the ages of your kids. If needed, get a sitter on a Saturday afternoon and take her shopping, making sure to point out some sexy panties or outfit you would like to see her wear. Stop for a snack or dinner on the way home. Some of the dinner conversation could be how sexy she looks nakked and how hot she'll look wearing the new outfit. Once home, give her the most fantastic massage - starting at her toes and working your way up. Do a little of the suggested playfully rough guy routine - hold her hands down until she agrees to let you do something to her (or for her to agree to do something to you). And take it from there. And of course the single 40ish gals would give anything to be with a guy like this as they don't have it now and the grass is always greener on the other side. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Start the massage and then overpower her in a playful friendly way and dominate her physically and make her promise to give you a good massage when you let her up. THAT approach is smart. And read her body language if she wants MORE dominance/a little more rough - one swat on the butt is where you START - if she responds well - spank her. She may simply be too shy to tell you what she needs. My wife had to tease it out of me as I was embarrassed. But once she got me going - nothing like it. I didn't read anything about the ages of your kids. If needed, get a sitter on a Saturday afternoon and take her shopping, making sure to point out some sexy panties or outfit you would like to see her wear. Stop for a snack or dinner on the way home. Some of the dinner conversation could be how sexy she looks nakked and how hot she'll look wearing the new outfit. Once home, give her the most fantastic massage - starting at her toes and working your way up. Do a little of the suggested playfully rough guy routine - hold her hands down until she agrees to let you do something to her (or for her to agree to do something to you). And take it from there. And of course the single 40ish gals would give anything to be with a guy like this as they don't have it now and the grass is always greener on the other side. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 How do you know how women think? I speak (and I'm certain) for MOST women who have been married to the same man for 20+ years... I've been there.. I had discussions on that matter with lots of women (friends, evening courses, family, co-workers)... Please don't insinuate that you know 'female' psychology.. because obviously you have no clue.. What I do know is most women don't have such a jaundiced negative view of LTR's and monogamy as you Lizzie60....... The rest I don't know, am willing to try and understand, but know I have a long way to go.... Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Lizzie, You are half scaring me. The scared half is worried that any day now wife will tell me she wishes I would stop pestering her for sex - since we are now past year 20 the point at which apparently intense boredom usually kicks in. TDP, Are you saying that I am a bully because I would not tolerate having my highest priority need ignored? I think that this means I am assertive. I have an experiment for you to do - figure out your wife's highest priority need - I bet it is financial security or something like that - and then totally blow it off through indifference - NOT lack of ability - indifference. Like go to the track and drop half your next worth - come home and tell her. See what happens. If she threatens/divorces you does that make her a bully? I don't think so. I think that simply means that she won't have her needs ignored/trampled by the one person in the world she is supposed to be able to count on. So if you wish to call me a bully for being unwilling to accept celibacy so be it. But in the day to day my wife seems mainly driven by love not by fear. I am more of a determined guy than a scary guy. Much more inclined to banter playfully than snarl. And you know the other night while she straddled me for half an hour she sure didn't seem fearful. She didn't seem anything but happy as she ran her fingers, nails and the palms of her hands up and down my chest, and then in ever more complex patterns along my inner thighs and other sensitive touch points. And at the end she does this thing like she is playing a musical instrument - and she plays to a final crescendo. And THAT desire to induce a state of euphoria purely via touch - that doesn't come from fear that comes from love. I am way more lovable than scary. I have a term I use to refer to men who don't stand up for themselves. I won't use it on you as I still have hope that someday you will surprise everyone - yourself most of all - and assert yourself to achieve a delightful outcome at home and in your bedroom. First bold: totally agree with this.. well said.. Second bold: total 'BS'... you would get to the same point after 20+ years... this is easy to say for a single woman.. My sex drive hit the roof when I became single.. ;) but I know for sure.. that I would become 'bored' like most women, and sex would become a chore if I'm with the same man for soooo many years... it's life.. we are NOT wired like men are... (for sex)... Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Let me reverse the situation: What is I had to chose between my wife as is or.............A woman that provided me sex 2 times a day BUT could not hold a job, is a poor mother, sloppy house keeper, cant cook, little intelligence, cant hold a conversation.....the list goes on. Which would I choose? lol What makes you think that a woman who likes sex cannot be a good mother, a good housekeeper, a good cook, intelligent and cannot hold a conversation? Are you suffering from the madonna-wh*re complex whereby you married a woman who was not very sexual because you are actually have a negative view of a woman who likes sex? Well, then you got what you bargained for. Because if a woman is not very interested in sex when she is young and it is the beginning of a relationship, she sure won't be interested in it 20 years later. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Second bold: total 'BS'... you would get to the same point after 20+ years... this is easy to say for a single woman... I don't think so. After all, I've been having sex with the same person for 30 years not (myself ) and I'm still not bored. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 given my situation, I would say there's some deep-rooted reason for her lack of sexual interest. You'll probably never find out... it's a harsh place to be. I don't think you are doing anything wrong, it's just the way it is... you can ask, you might try to change things (with therapy and a new behavioral approach), but at the end of the day you will have to accept it or leave... I don't know how old you are, but for me the prospect of sex twice a year for the rest of life is frightening... I'm 47... Link to post Share on other sites
Author PKB57 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 What makes you think that a woman who likes sex cannot be a good mother, a good housekeeper, a good cook, intelligent and cannot hold a conversation? Are you suffering from the madonna-wh*re complex whereby you married a woman who was not very sexual because you are actually have a negative view of a woman who likes sex? Well, then you got what you bargained for. Because if a woman is not very interested in sex when she is young and it is the beginning of a relationship, she sure won't be interested in it 20 years later. NO SILLY, LOL, you took what I said totally out of context. Of course I'm NOT equating a woman who loves sex to being a loser other wise, LMAO...... I was responding to a question which was: would I eventually leave my wife over this issue. I responded as a NO because she is a WONDERFUL wife with so many great qualities. I said that if she LOVED sex, she would be a PERFECT wife. But just because she is NOT PERFECT then due to the sex issue, would I LEAVE her? I said no. Maybe other men might but I would not. So when I got a followup message I said, WHAT IF I HAD THE REVERSE SITUATION? THE OPPOSITE of my current wife? (THIS WAS A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION) One that would mean she would love sex all the time BUT would be as crappy wife otherwise (THIS WOULD BE THE OPPOSITE OF MY WIFE - GET IT?). WHICH would I choose to have? MY CURRENT wife or one that is her TOTAL OPPOSITE? I'd keep my current one, thank you:)........the guy who asked the question has a good sense of humor because he then responded........"might be a tough choice".... Ladies, as much as I love sex, and I'm still a twice or more times a day kind of guy if I could get it , there are so many other qualities that I look for in a woman and found in my wife. All I was saying with my statement is that she is THAT special of a person EVEN if the sex in lacking. If anything ladies, take from this that there are a great many good men out there that will love you and care for you for all the qualities that make a woman a great partner, and that sex in one area that should not be neglected even though I see from the great many posts here how hard it can be sometimes for women in the long run. WalkInThePark: The above were some very vicious things you said to me LOL, I hope you don't still believe that:) Talk to me......... Link to post Share on other sites
Author PKB57 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 What I don't get is why the OP is willing to conduct the "experiment" of withholding all sex and affection to see if the wife notices and initiates sex but not willing to sit down and have an open and frank discussion instead. The biggest disconnect between men and women when it comes to sex is that men DO think about it a lot more than men and the fact that the OP has been giving back rubs, massages, etc, shows the wife that there is still love and affection in the relationship without the culmination of intercourse. Lots of women don't need to go that far to have a fulfilling relationship while for men, it is a means to an end (at least, that is how it is coming across). Starting to withhold that types of affection would be detrimental to the relationship, in my opinion. OP, you said said you were AGREEING with your wife when she comments, "why don't we do this more?" But you didn't do as I suggest which is ask the OPEN ENDED QUESTION, "honey, why don't you think we do this more often?" By agreeing, you are instilling YOUR desires again. The Open Ended Question is to give her a non-judgmental chance to expound upon why she doesn't see sex as important as you do and how you might be able to make that change. I really do understand your point about talking to her and asking "that" open ended question in the manner you describe. As you can see from the ladies responses, some do advocate the other approach of "withholding". Obviously even among women there are divergent views on this. I have not fully made up my mind as to my final approach so you input and those that agree with you are helping. I'm an open minded person. Keep it coming. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I And of course the single 40ish gals would give anything to be with a guy like this as they don't have it now and the grass is always greener on the other side. Euh... if we are single there is no other side of the hill where the grass is greener. There is simply no hill. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Ladies, as much as I love sex, and I'm still a twice or more times a day kind of guy if I could get it , there are so many other qualities that I look for in a woman and found in my wife. All I was saying with my statement is that she is THAT special of a person EVEN if the sex in lacking. In that case you simply have to accept that things are the way they are. I think individual or marriage councelling might help but if she does not want that, you run out of things to try. One thing that is still not clear to me: has it always been like that? Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 One thing that is still not clear to me: has it always been like that? and how frequently do you have sex? Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Lizzie, You are half scaring me. The scared half is worried that any day now wife will tell me she wishes I would stop pestering her for sex - since we are now past year 20 the point at which apparently intense boredom usually kicks in. I'm not saying it's the same for everybody.. there might be rare exceptions.. but when I was with my first ex... sex was a real sacrifice.. and eventhough I HATED it with a passion... we had sex twice weekly... it was my way to just keep the 'peace' .. and not fight all the time.. so we had sex once in the middle of the week.. and once on the weekend.. until I just couldn't take it any longer... it was disgusting at some point.. Link to post Share on other sites
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