update on my sexless marriage

[Gerhard]

Any situation where your partner abuses you and you fight back by definition becomes a power struggle. Situation like this if you didn't make it a power struggle he would just continue to ignore you.

If fighting back against partner abuse turns things into a power struggle, then what's the best way to counter attack partner abuse if you don't wish to get into a power struggle?

[SarahRose]

It sounds to me like he either doesn't like you anymore or he's suffering from depression.

 

Does he show any interest in pornography or other women?

 

ummm he's addicted to porn. He acts like he likes me a lot.

[mem11363]

I have no idea. I am in the middle of a "no holds barred" power struggle right now. Seriously. Over weather or not one of us is treating the other the same, better or worse than they are being treated.

 

Emotionally draining. Then again I feel like I have been sorely provoked and am inclined to stand my ground and see what happens.

 

If fighting back against partner abuse turns things into a power struggle, then what's the best way to counter attack partner abuse if you don't wish to get into a power struggle?

[giotto]

 

Originally Posted by Woggle

Try laying off the resentment for a little while and if that does not work maybe it is time to end things. Right now your approach will get you nowhere.

 

Amen to that

 

Well, this is what I'm trying... we'll see when or if she will approach me for sex... I'm aware it might be months, but I need to know so I can take my decision... and she won't be able to blame me...

[SarahRose]

Well, this is what I'm trying... we'll see when or if she will approach me for sex... I'm aware it might be months, but I need to know so I can take my decision... and she won't be able to blame me...

 

Good luck. It sounds like you are trying everything you can.

 

 

That was the first thing I tried was to just ask for it more and then let it go. Obviously it didn't work.

 

If I don't make an issue of it, he would have went on as he was before neglecting me and wanking to porn.

 

People generally do what they want to do.

[SarahRose]

Yeah, I agree with this. Sexy lingerie? yes, i've done that. Subtle, sophisticated, sexy dress? yes. Getting naked underneat a trench? absolutely. seduced him with wine & cheese in a nice hotel with million dollar view? yes. Cook him his fave meal? yes.

 

Does it work? No. And no, I don't have a single celulite in my body.

 

I really really don't get why people even suggest these things. I mean we aren't under a rock and just don't know about sexy things to do.

 

What is your story cuppa?

[giotto]

Good luck. It sounds like you are trying everything you can.

 

 

That was the first thing I tried was to just ask for it more and then let it go. Obviously it didn't work.

 

If I don't make an issue of it, he would have went on as he was before neglecting me and wanking to porn.

 

People generally do what they want to do.

 

well, I suppose I'm at an earlier stage than you. You see, you tried everything and you failed, we compromised and it worked. It's not working anymore, so, sadly, this is my last chance saloon... I need to know before I take my decision... it will be hard (), but I have to go through it...

 

BTW, is this the guy you initially split up with, in 2006?

[silverfish]

Well, this is what I'm trying... we'll see when or if she will approach me for sex... I'm aware it might be months, but I need to know so I can take my decision... and she won't be able to blame me...

 

I believe the answer to the leave it / fight it problem is to let the other person know you are backing off from getting angry / nagging. Let them know that you will leave them to think about it, but on the condition that you get together on a certain date or at a certain time and resolve it.

 

Write the date / time on the calendar if necessary, so that there's not any disagreement about when it was arranged. Then remind the person the day before, and maybe ask them where they'd like to talk (home, restaurant, on a walk).

 

When you meet up you don't get angry, shout, or walk off...If it can't be resolved when you get together then keep meeting up until the issue is resolved or you agree / compromise on how you are going to deal with it.

 

Being confrontational is not constructive in a relationship, and it shouldn't be a power struggle...or a 'winner' and 'loser'.

[giotto]

I believe the answer to the leave it / fight it problem is to let the other person know you are backing off from getting angry / nagging. Let them know that you will leave them to think about it, but on the condition that you get together on a certain date or at a certain time and resolve it.

 

Write the date / time on the calendar if necessary, so that there's not any disagreement about when it was arranged. Then remind the person the day before, and maybe ask them where they'd like to talk (home, restaurant, on a walk).

 

When you meet up you don't get angry, shout, or walk off...If it can't be resolved when you get together then keep meeting up until the issue is resolved or you agree / compromise on how you are going to deal with it.

 

Being confrontational is not constructive in a relationship, and it shouldn't be a power struggle...or a 'winner' and 'loser'.

 

I'm not sure about writing the date on the calendar... that is exactly what she is accusing me of... and I'm not sure about fixing a date... these are things that turn her completely off: being under pressure, being reminded... she knows it's up to her and I have stopped nagging, but I hadn't nagged for months before the last "incident"... still didn't work... I have backed off. Let's see what happens or not happens...

[TinyLee222]

Exactly! They are causing our anger and resentment by constant rejection. So we arent even allowed to havenormal feelings about this for fear of offending the person who is rejecting us

 

I have backed off and I get the crumbs when he is in the mood. He is content with his porn daily and being with me about 1-2 times a month

 

Ok this is the thing. Are you willing to settle for this? Read it a few times. You seem like an intelligent and independent woman. Do you

think things are ever going to change? He won't even talk to you! The

excuse about sex because family is at your house is lame. What is keeping you at this point? Do you have a career? Can you take care of yourself financially?

 

Ask yourself this question. Are you willing to keep being rejected by

a man who wacks off to porn daily, won't have sex with you and won't

talk to you? Are you willing to settle for this? I would rather be by

myself than to live like this.

 

I guess most would consider me a pessimest. I don't know I guess I am

a realist who has learned to let things go and take care of myself. It

took years to get this way. I think you are beating your head against the wall. You are still young. Why don't you just pull back. Do a complete

180. Do not pursue him. Be cordial but get busy enjoying your friends,

etc. Give him a time frame. Tell him that you are not willing to live

your married life like this and unless he gets his act together and is

willing to confront these issues with counseling you will have no other

choice than to leave. Say it and stick with it, unless of course you

wan't to live the rest of your middle age in misery. If he comes around

and accepts counseling great! Maybe you have a chance. If he doesn't

he could care less about you and the marriage. You deserve more than

crumbs.

 

Lee

[silverfish]

I'm not sure about writing the date on the calendar... that is exactly what she is accusing me of... and I'm not sure about fixing a date... these are things that turn her completely off: being under pressure, being reminded... she knows it's up to her and I have stopped nagging, but I hadn't nagged for months before the last "incident"... still didn't work... I have backed off. Let's see what happens or not happens...

 

Haha no I don't think writing 'make love - 4.30 tues' would work for me either.... I meant more to arrange / fix a time to talk about this with her...and also in response to Gerhards question below.....I think there must be a happy medium that would break the nagging / withdrawing / getting angry cycle....

 

If fighting back against partner abuse turns things into a power struggle, then what's the best way to counter attack partner abuse if you don't wish to get into a power struggle?

[giotto]

If fighting back against partner abuse turns things into a power struggle, then what's the best way to counter attack partner abuse if you don't wish to get into a power struggle?

 

there isn't a happy medium... all I can do is to be quiet and not get into a discussion, otherwise she will be hurt for weeks. It's difficult for me not say anything, especially after weeks of no sex, because I like talking and discussing things. I'll just back off and hope for the best... at the stage we are now, suggesting or hinting is going to be counterproductive...

[mem11363]

Standard conversation rarely does anything in these situations because IME the primary factors impacting partner behavior are:

1. love - they do stuff to make you happy

2. guilt - they want to avoid feeling bad because they care enough about you to not want you to feel rejected/unloved

3. fear - of some consequence (not physical consequence - but like end of the relationship or adultery etc)

 

In most of these situations 1 and 2 don't apply. So sadly the primary lever to at least get things initially moving is fear.

 

By the way - it is an oxymoron to say

"I love my partner a lot I just find them unattractive sexually so I am perfectly comfortable rejecting them again and again despite knowing that they are slowly losing their mind from frustration"

 

That isn't love. That is parasitism.

 

 

 

Personally I think the smart play is to use a minimal amount of fear to obtain an honest picture of what is going on. And then sometimes that information allows you to change what is broken. Using fear to directly demand sex might mechanically work - but it leaves both people feeling bad. The recipient generally doesn't feel loved/attractive (which is usually the primary goal) and the giver is resentful.

 

 

 

 

Haha no I don't think writing 'make love - 4.30 tues' would work for me either.... I meant more to arrange / fix a time to talk about this with her...and also in response to Gerhards question below.....I think there must be a happy medium that would break the nagging / withdrawing / getting angry cycle....

 

If fighting back against partner abuse turns things into a power struggle, then what's the best way to counter attack partner abuse if you don't wish to get into a power struggle?

[SarahRose]

[/b]

 

Ok this is the thing. Are you willing to settle for this? Read it a few times. You seem like an intelligent and independent woman. Do you

think things are ever going to change? He won't even talk to you! The

excuse about sex because family is at your house is lame. What is keeping you at this point? Do you have a career? Can you take care of yourself financially?

 

Ask yourself this question. Are you willing to keep being rejected by

a man who wacks off to porn daily, won't have sex with you and won't

talk to you? Are you willing to settle for this? I would rather be by

myself than to live like this.

 

I guess most would consider me a pessimest. I don't know I guess I am

a realist who has learned to let things go and take care of myself. It

took years to get this way. I think you are beating your head against the wall. You are still young. Why don't you just pull back. Do a complete

180. Do not pursue him. Be cordial but get busy enjoying your friends,

etc. Give him a time frame. Tell him that you are not willing to live

your married life like this and unless he gets his act together and is

willing to confront these issues with counseling you will have no other

choice than to leave. Say it and stick with it, unless of course you

wan't to live the rest of your middle age in misery. If he comes around

and accepts counseling great! Maybe you have a chance. If he doesn't

he could care less about you and the marriage. You deserve more than

crumbs.

 

Lee

 

Lee this really is wise advice.

 

I am going to marriage counseling and the therapist gave us homework to do which he won't do.

 

I do know why people ask if the woman has a career. I really don't know too many women who don't have a career these days. Anyway I just got a promotion to upper level management yesterday and I thought that deserved a romp in the hay but I guess not.

[SarahRose]

Standard conversation rarely does anything in these situations because IME the primary factors impacting partner behavior are:

1. love - they do stuff to make you happy

2. guilt - they want to avoid feeling bad because they care enough about you to not want you to feel rejected/unloved

3. fear - of some consequence (not physical consequence - but like end of the relationship or adultery etc)

 

In most of these situations 1 and 2 don't apply. So sadly the primary lever to at least get things initially moving is fear.

 

By the way - it is an oxymoron to say

"I love my partner a lot I just find them unattractive sexually so I am perfectly comfortable rejecting them again and again despite knowing that they are slowly losing their mind from frustration"

 

That isn't love. That is parasitism.

 

 

 

Personally I think the smart play is to use a minimal amount of fear to obtain an honest picture of what is going on. And then sometimes that information allows you to change what is broken. Using fear to directly demand sex might mechanically work - but it leaves both people feeling bad. The recipient generally doesn't feel loved/attractive (which is usually the primary goal) and the giver is resentful.

 

Our partners should love us enough to compromise and try but they won't.

 

That isn't loving at all.

 

We have compromised what we want to suit them.

 

It just seems very one sided. They get want the want and we get nothing.

 

In my angriest times I think it would be great for him to come home to an empty house and divorce papers on the bench.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Our partners should love us enough to compromise and try but they won't.

 

That isn't loving at all.

 

We have compromised what we want to suit them.

 

It just seems very one sided. They get want the want and we get nothing.

 

In my angriest times I think it would be great for him to come home to an empty house and divorce papers on the bench.

 

This anger, selfishness, and short sided point of view will consume your relationship. How basic of a concept is it that you cannot change him, you can only change yourself? I know you are wise enough to understand that.

 

At the same time, pleasuring himself to porn while depriving his spouse seems to me to be the worst possible scenario. If that were my son in law (years from now), I would personally disconnect every source of porn in my daughter’s home if need be. No modem, no dvd player, etc. It's despicable...

[mem11363]

SR,

I think you are grieving for your marriage. That is as it should be. Eventually you will achieve acceptance.

 

1. SHOCK & DENIAL-

2. PAIN & GUILT-

3. ANGER & BARGAINING-

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-

5. THE UPWARD TURN-

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-

 

 

Our partners should love us enough to compromise and try but they won't.

 

That isn't loving at all.

 

We have compromised what we want to suit them.

 

It just seems very one sided. They get want the want and we get nothing.

 

In my angriest times I think it would be great for him to come home to an empty house and divorce papers on the bench.

[troggleputty]

Had 2nd session of marriage counseling and we went over the homework. The therapist thinks he may have some deep seated block about sex being dirty from his childhood.

 

The therapist gave us two assignments to do.

 

We pick 4 of our top rated things we like from the 5 languages of love inventory and the other person has to do them.

 

Hey that's a good way to build intimacy--force your partner to do stuff he doesn't want to do under the guise of marital therapy.

 

As soon as you're in a situation where the other person "has to do" things you've already lost. You don't build intimacy via coercion.

 

 

The 2nd was to agree to have sex 2 times a week for the next 4 weeks.

 

O.K., so now people have to have sex even if they don't want to? Lack of sex is a signal of a deeper lack of intimacy.

 

These assignments seem fairly simple to do. The sex has an end point so it isn't like the lower drive person would think great I have to this forever.

 

Sigh. Obviously either you or the therapist don't see how self-defeating it is to view a relationship like a shopping list.

 

 

 

The problem is this, he won't do either one until my family leave.

 

O.K. so put them up at the Shady Rest motel. Problem solved

 

 

My kids are here visiting for 3 weeks and all he has done is hide in the bedroom and he told me no sex until they leave.

 

So get rid of the kids. Why is that a problem for you?

 

 

I said so you decided this for me without my consent or asking me?

 

No. He decided it for himself. He doesn't want to have sex with you while your kids are there. (I guess they are not his kids? I.e. step children?) Put them up at a motel.

 

 

I said so after they are gone you'll do something? To me it just looks like another excuse not to do something as we've only had sex 5 times this year anyway when nobody is at the house.

 

Obviously the problems in your relationship aren't just about sex, that's just a symptom.

 

 

I did do as the counselor said and asked him what I was supposed to do about my sexual needs and he said I just have to wait. I said I do have sexual needs and you are supposed to be helping me meet them and how can you help me meet them and he wouldn't answer.

 

Do you know what a vibrator is?

 

 

 

I am really really beginning to wonder if he is passive aggressive about withholding sex from me as a means of anger and control.

 

LOL, you are mirror images of each other.

 

 

 

He said he was fine with my adult kids visiting but maybe this is passive aggressive behavior.

 

He's obviously not fine with it. And if they are adults they can darn well afford to stay at a motel, or certainly you could put them up at one.

 

 

I did get angry and tell him that I am tired of begging for it and it is really near the point where I don't want it at all from him ever.

 

It's quite obvious that your H feels as if you believe your relationship with your adult children is more important than your relationship with your H is.

 

 

 

He moved his computer into the bedroom so I know he isn't looking at porn either at least for awhile.

 

Maybe he's imagining it though.

 

 

 

Today I am going to buy some power tools and dirty magazines of men and leave it all by the bed.

 

"Dirty magazines of men"?

[cuppa]

I really really don't get why people even suggest these things. I mean we aren't under a rock and just don't know about sexy things to do.

 

What is your story cuppa?

 

Same as yours, except for the porn, plus the complication of kids (I want to have one, I'm already 33 but I am not sure if he does want one). I gave him ultimatum a month or so ago (I am moving out or counseling, he chose counseling). He's supposed to schedule it 2 weeks ago but I'm still waiting . Our 7th year wedding anniversary is next month, for the first time, he makes an initiative of booking a fancy restaurant that is hard to be booked, months in advanced.

 

I feel such a B!tch for harping him or issuing another ultimatum on this while in his own way, he's trying to improve things so I will apply patience until our anniversary and will bring it up again.

[Jeff1962]

Our partners should love us enough to compromise and try but they won't.

 

That isn't loving at all.

 

We have compromised what we want to suit them.

 

It just seems very one sided. They get want the want and we get nothing.

 

In my angriest times I think it would be great for him to come home to an empty house and divorce papers on the bench.

 

The term compromise reminds me of a story. Two people were arguing over and orange, to no end they argued over who's orange it was. They finally agreed to split the orange down the middle making both happy.

 

Next day they both talk about how they used this orange. One person said I ate my half and threw away the peel. Other person said I used the peel, baked a pie and threw away the rest.

 

So in compromise someone has to loose or to not be quite happy because we do not listen to eachother, I am guilty as well. Thru communication everyone wins.

[giotto]

In my opinion, using coercion and fear to force your needs on your spouse is utterly wrong. We can only talk and try and explain our needs or meet their needs to allow them to feel better about themselves and then meet our needs. Some might say this is selfishness on their behalf, but I'd rather not have my needs met because of fear or coercion... I want my spouse to meet them because she wants to. If that's not possible, then be it!

[SarahRose]

well I have decided to just let this issue go completely for awhile. We found out today his mom is dying from cancer.

[giotto]

well I have decided to just let this issue go completely for awhile. We found out today his mom is dying from cancer.

 

oh dear... hugs and stay strong!

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

well I have decided to just let this issue go completely for awhile. We found out today his mom is dying from cancer.

 

Sorry to hear that. You will be tested as a couple now more than ever. Try moving away from the resentment and back to unconditional love and support... you might be amazed how, with patience, the intimacy may very well be restored.

[SarahRose]

Hey that's a good way to build intimacy--force your partner to do stuff he doesn't want to do under the guise of marital therapy.

 

As soon as you're in a situation where the other person "has to do" things you've already lost. You don't build intimacy via coercion.

 

 

 

 

O.K., so now people have to have sex even if they don't want to? Lack of sex is a signal of a deeper lack of intimacy.

 

 

 

Sigh. Obviously either you or the therapist don't see how self-defeating it is to view a relationship like a shopping list.

 

 

 

 

 

O.K. so put them up at the Shady Rest motel. Problem solved

 

 

 

 

So get rid of the kids. Why is that a problem for you?

 

 

 

 

No. He decided it for himself. He doesn't want to have sex with you while your kids are there. (I guess they are not his kids? I.e. step children?) Put them up at a motel.

 

 

 

 

Obviously the problems in your relationship aren't just about sex, that's just a symptom.

 

 

 

 

Do you know what a vibrator is?

 

 

 

 

 

LOL, you are mirror images of each other.

 

 

 

 

 

He's obviously not fine with it. And if they are adults they can darn well afford to stay at a motel, or certainly you could put them up at one.

 

 

 

 

It's quite obvious that your H feels as if you believe your relationship with your adult children is more important than your relationship with your H is.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe he's imagining it though.

 

 

 

 

 

"Dirty magazines of men"?

 

Funny how your advice is completely opposite of what you told the men on another thread.